Is he impressed by your Loch Ness monster?
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We cruised Loch Ness on the murky and brooding Sunday (in a boat I hasten to add).
No monsters were sighted other than a blue fluffy one at £15.00 which I was obliged to purchase onboard for him
Re. Your prospective father-in-laws trip to Spain. That is certainly interesting and I look forward to reading about it.
Re. The purchase of a cuddly toy. May I ask how old this young man is?
From general info that I've read re that over the year I believe that your solicitor is correct - well, both opinions are correct HOWEVER whilst you CAN technically apply for a marriage visa whilst here in the UK on a Tourist Visa and there's nothing that immigration can do to stop that and in fact you could even get married whilst here, that doesn't apparently give your spouse an automatic right to reside here with you and apparently if immigration have seen that you've tried to use that particular loop hole to try and circumvent their preferred system they take a very dim view of it and do then go out of their way then to refuse your spouse or make life a LOT more difficult for then in general.
Their advice is very clear I believe re this in that they say you should ( MUST) return to your own Country and apply for the marriage visa FROM THERE and wait for their normal processes to follow and you should not use the Tourist visa they kindly granted you ( especially if a first issue one) to then try and play smart with them.
So I think your solicitor is spot on in this regard.
Welcome Back NIrish - your thinking concurs with mine - except I really don't think you could "defy" the conditions of a Visitor Visa and just get married anyway - I'm sure the Registrar would ask to see his Visa either before the ceremony or when it came to registration.
Having said that, I'm prepared to consider the use every loophole I can find. You do read about people being allowed to stay because e.g. they have a cat dependent on them but I guess that's just Daily Mail crap.
We have made contact with Vietnamese in Glasgow but since there's not a single one of them came here legally they have not been of much help!! Their tactic seems to be to get pregnant if female or to inseminate a woman if male, and thereby they become entitled to stay because the resultant baby is born British.
Goji - he enjoyed the ski-ing but I don't think it's something he wants to do again - but I'm happy that he had the experience.
? I wasn't away anywhere, I just decided to reduce / stop posting here so much (hurrah I hear from some :-) unless it's something important like this or there's some pics attached to posts you've to be logged in to see and then I'll happily log in to view same.
Re your "I dont think you could just get married"etc - apparently yes you absolutely can - immigration can't stop you getting married BUT being married DOES NOT grant you automatic right to residence I believe and THAT is where they then go out of their way to make life hard for you if you've broken or tried to bend their rules so I think doing it "by their book" IS the best way for sure and they'll see and appreciate the fact you did do that and I'm sure at some level that's bound to get you some brownie points somehow.
Actually scotty you're wrong to be so sure as a simple Internet search using the phrase "can I marry on a visitor visa in the uk" will show. Here's an answer from one such site in the results, which sets out the situation in full. I have bolded a specific section for you
"Under UK's marriage law, a tourist can get legally married. But under the immigration rules, non-EEA citizen wishing to marry and then leave UK will have to get marriage visitor visa, which has to be obtained in advance. This alpplies to all regardless of whether they need a visitor visa (i.e. visa and non-visa nationals).
What the solicitor said is also (partly) true. The rules say that you cannot enter UK as a general visitor with the intention of getting married. But if someone decides to have a quick marriage after entering UK, there's nothing to stop them.
Register offices have to follow marriage law but it's not their job to enforce immigration rules. Some registrars refuse to proceed with legal preliminaries to a marriage (giving notice etc) without seeing an appropriate visa in the non-EEA citizen's passport. Others are less concerned.
To marry and then to stay on (settle) in UK, fiancé(e) visa is essential. Without it, the non-EEA spouse has to leave UK and apply for spouse visa from their country of residence."
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/bri...ance-visa.html
Frequent - your research (thanks for that) has thrown up a very interesting possible scenario:
The most difficult part of applying for a Fiance visa is proving the relationship - but if you are correct and despite the UK Govt declaring you cannot marry on a Visitor Visa you did it anyway then it would not be a Fiance Visa one would be seeking but a Spouse Visa, right? And if you are actually married might it be a tad more difficult for the Home Office to deny that you are in a relationship?
Predictably the attempted 'crackdown' of 2 or 3 months ago has fizzled out like a damp squib having achieved precisely nothing except antagonise members.
Now stop derailing my topic or I'll set Francois on you
:devilsh:
I usually only go for that if the wet celery and the chamois leather knickers are also available
Scottish Guy wrote.
"I've never thought much of your chat but I'm happy to confirm you're full of chit."
Clearly feeling the burn.
Hopefully we can get back onto the more interesting stories of how your delightful* Vietnamese lad is coping with the Scottish winter. Spring must be only 3~4 months away now.
[*Assumption]
May I ask, have you consulted an immigration lawyer yet? That may be a start.
Feel for you though, as we've begun preparing all the necessary documentation to secure Leo a visitor VISA to Canada, so we're stuck fucking around with immigration as well.
What's your BFs education like? One way to get him in on a more permanent status may be via an education VISA, and put him in university in the UK. That's one route we may end up taking ourselves, but who knows at the moment. Leo is quite thrilled at the prospect of attending a Canadian university, and getting an education VISA to study shouldn't be any more difficult than a visitor VISA, except for the fact he first needs to be accepted by a university.
Just a thought though. If he attends uni in the UK, that could easily solve your immigration issues for a good 4+ years.
Good suggestion Matt. It ticks all the boxes. Here is a link to The University of Edinburgh. Definitely worth exploring this avenue I would have thought.
https://www.ed.ac.uk/studying/international
Matt, we applied for an "Education Visa" - specifically a Student Visitor Visa over 5yrs ago (with a prior acceptance at an approved educational faclity) and it was refused for no good reason - they simply said they did not believe the money I had demonstrably ring-fenced would be given to him - and there was/is no right of appeal. How one is meant to prove what one will do in the future is a mystery yet to be solved.
For those suggesting that we just get married irrespective of the fact that the Visitor Visa conditions say we cannot - I was quite hopeful about this until I looked at the Marriage Registrars website:
If you and/or your partner are a non-EEA national with limited or no immigration status in the UK, or if you or your partner do not provide specified evidence of your immigration status, your proposed marriage or civil partnership will be referred to the Home Office and your notice period may be extended to 70 days. In giving notice you should therefore allow sufficient time before the date of your planned marriage or civil partnership recognising that 70 days notice may be required.
Registrars are required to refer all marriage and civil partnership notices to the Home Office if one or both of the parties is a non-EEA national who does not provide specified evidence that they have (a) settled status in the UK (Indefinite Leave to Enter or Remain), (b) an EU law right of permanent residence in the UK, (c) a marriage or civil partnership visa, or (d) exemption from immigration control (e.g. with the right of abode in the UK).
So it looks like any attempt to ignore the Visitor Visa conditions is doomed as the Registrar is obliged to inform the Home Office when you lodge you intention to marry (as you must by lay do 28 days before the proposed marriage). The rules say the Home Office may extend your notice period to 70 days (doesn't mention banning your marriage) but I'm pretty certain they'd soon inform us that the marriage is outwith the Visitor Visa conditions ( which specifically say you cannot get married) and that they won't allow/recognise it.
We did of course speak to an immigration lawyer (£150 for 30 mins). His advice was go home and apply for Fiance Visa with no guarantee of success whatsoever. For a few reasons, this is not a viable option.
I'm determined to find a way through this - but after almost 3 months I'm no nearer finding it.
Isn't much easy for you both just to visit Belgium or Netherlands and to marry there, then to make procedure of recognizing of your marriage status in UK? You BF doesn't need to be in person for such recognition, and after recognition you will have official docs on the hand for his spouse visa to you. At least Russians gays who can't marry here, they do such marriages in Belgium/Netherlands.
Or, if you want to have more exotic marriage, - you can do it in South Africa - they also allow gay marriages when both guys are foreigners.
I think you will find that most loopholes are already closed, thanks to the xenofobia roaring it's ugly head, in many European countries.
I would follow the advice of the immigration lawyer, as there is no other way around it, short from staying in the UK illegally.
SG, the regulations are in place to prevent precisely what you want to do. In the US, anyone can get married regardless of immigration status. But not at all easy to obtain a green card after marriage if one entered the US on a tourist/visitor visa.
In fact, if the foreign spouse applies for permanent residence within 90 days of entry as a non-immigrant, it is quite easy for US Immigration to accuse the individual of Misrepresentation because s/he did not state on the tourist visa application that there was an intention of marriage. In many cases, this would require the foreigner to apply for a Waiver of Inadmissibility, including evidence that it would be an extreme hardship for the US citizen if foreign spouse were not allowed to remain in America, or if the American had to leave the US to live abroad with his alien spouse.
In US law, the correct, legal course of action if a marriage does take place in the US, is for the alien spouse to return to home country and wait for processing of the spouse petition. May take a year, but it's usually fail safe.
Also about a year for processing of fiancee cases (foreigner never in US previously), and same-sex fiancee cases have had a high success rate in the US.
I would have thought that an escrow account would negate the problem of "ringfenced money" and believability.
John Lennon had it right...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwUGSYDKUxU
So did this kid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGDQ8bW3UvQ
A world without borders. Not sure what the delay is, but it's going to happen, especially since space exploration is ramping up. People can fight it if they want, but it's inevitable... in the future, there will be a world without borders.
Not sure what the issue is in returning back to Vietnam, and obtaining the relevant visa from there ?
Bottom line, he has already visited the UK, has followed the law and not overstayed, there is proof of a relationship, so securing the relevant visa once back in Vietnam has become quite a lot easier. Do not try to beat the system, you will most likely fail and killed off the normal avenues in the same process. Not smart.
You haven't to be local resident or resident of EU for to marry in Belgium or Netherlands - there both guys can be foreigners and still be able to marry.
The same about South Africa (RSA) - to marry in South Africa you haven't to be resident. Both guys may be foreigners, make marriage and get marriage certificate there, then legalize it in local embassy and represent in own country.Quote:
I don't understand the South Africa reference
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...3/marriage.pdf look at point 2
Friends of mine: one of which is Russian and another one is from South Korea, had a marriage ceremony in South Africa, then they made notary apostille and now their certificate is valid in many countries under "Apostille convention"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostille_Convention
Oh, just checked: Belgium and Netherlands closed this "hole" already.
Update: but now you are able to register partnership (and to marry from Jan 1 2019) in Austria
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-s...age_in_Austria
Quote:
MARRIAGE APPLICATION
You can file your marriage application up to a maximum of six months prior to your wedding date. Once you have filed for your marriage application there may be a waiting period of between two and six weeks until you will be given a confirmed date of marriage.
If either of you is an Austrian citizen or resides in Austria (regardless of citizenship), your marriage application must be filed at the Standesamt which pertains to your residence.
If neither of you are Austrian or do not reside in Austria, your marriage application must be filed at the main registrar’s office in Vienna.
Standesamt Wien-Innere Stadt
Schlesingerplatz 4
A-1080 Vienna
Tel: +43-1-40134 08591
Email: post-a08(at)m35.magwien.gv.at
When filing for your marriage licence you must be both present in person.
If neither of you reside in Austria, in some circumstances the Registrar will waiver this requirement, however it would be advisable that this has been agreed to before you continue on with your plans for arranging your wedding in Austria.
If permission has been granted for you not to be in attendance, I would advise employing the services of a wedding planner or a legal professional to file your marriage application on your behalf.
When filing for your marriage application the registrar will require the following:
legal proof of marriageability and
any possible impediments to marriage
This is based on your declarations and the certificates and proof presented.
Please note: When filing the application, you must inform the registrar of the surnames you will using after marriage.
REQUIRED DOCUMENTATION
All documentation is required to be original or certified copies and translated into Austrian by the relevant authorities.
Your Certificate of No Impediment / Certificate of Freedom to Marry must not be older than 6 months.
All documentation must be submitted to the Registrar at the Town Hall at least 8 to 10 weeks prior to your wedding taking place.
The following documentation for both the bride and groom is required to be presented when applying for a marriage licence in Austria.
Certificate of No Impediment / Certificate of Freedom to Marry bearing the stamp apostille
Proof of residence (council tax bill, drivers license etc)
Full passport
Photocopies of the picture page of the passports of the bride and the groom
Photocopies of the picture page of the passports for your two witnesses, listing their name, address and occupation.
Full Birth Certificate (showing mother and fathers names), bearing the stamp apostille
If you are divorced – Decree Absolute and previous Marriage Certificate.
If you are a widower – Death Certificate of previous spouse and previous Marriage Certificate.
Name Change Deed Poll Certificate – if applicable.
Adoption Certificate – if applicable.
If you are using a Wedding Planner they will organise this on your behalf. However, if you are not using a Wedding Planner you will need to make provisions to ensure your documentation is correctly submitted and lodged on time.
Thanks for the info. No one is interested in a closed hole.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moses
Many of us wish you'd shut yours
Have you taken your young gentleman friend to see the pandas at Edinburgh Zoo?