Covid cases, vaccination rates, masks and Omicron, particularly in the UK

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Originally Posted by Old git

Although not yet conceded by the UK government, the complete failure of the vaccines to stem the tide of Omicron is evident to all..

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For clarity - no one, ever, said that being vaccinated would stop you getting Omicron, vaccination was merely to reduce the effects and that as well as Omicron being less aggressive seems to have worked, hence why 90% of the patients in ICU wards in the UK and UN vaccinated.

Can we imagine just for a second what NHS numbers would have looked like if Omicron HAD of been as or more aggressive than the Delta variant, the NHS would have been overrun for sure ! So, thank goodness for vaccines I say ( and Omicrom not being as aggressive as it appears we dodged a bullet there ( well so far anyway until the next time perhaps :-(.

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Originally Posted by Nirish guy

For clarity - no one, ever, said that being vaccinated would stop you getting Omicron, vaccination was merely to reduce the effects and that as well as Omicron being less aggressive seems to have worked, hence why 90% of the patients in ICU wards in the UK and UN vaccinated.

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Well … I think that’s a sense that has emerged. Say the word “vaccination” and most people think “inoculation” which does mean prevention. However (as Wikipedia points out) although people use vaccination and inoculation as if they are interchangeable, they are two different things. Medical experts believing that everyone is as educated in the different terminologies as they are have used “vaccination” in its precise and technical meaning while lay people (almost all of us) thought they meant inoculation. It’s the old “assume = make an ass of you and me” problem

The various COVID vaccines are just that - vaccines - not inoculations

The vaccines reduce the incidence rate for severe COVID.

The UK has one of the highest vaccination rates and once almost everyone has been vaccinated, the rate of vaccination will slow down, because there is hardly anyone else left to do.
Also, the Westminster government is in the process of demonstrating how to deal with COVID in 2022. Almost no restrictions and rely on vaccines to keep the hospitalisation rate down. Numbers with COVID are already falling, so the policy is working..

The Thai government is still stuck with a mindset suitable for COVID in 2020. I guess they will catch up eventually.

Exactly! Vaccination allows keeping hospitals open and operational. Although sheer numbers of omicron infections is stretching capacities in some areas to their limits.

The 90% unvaccinated in ICU statement has been widely bandied about, but the BMJ's fact check piece shows it to be untrue:

https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o5

What doctors do say, but for some reason it gets little publicity, is that the great majority of those getting bad outcomes with Covid now are seriously obese.

I don't deny that the vaccination campaigns have had some moderating influence on health outcomes, but I do think they were grossly oversold.

The fundamental truth was that we wouldn't get over this episode until the great majority had caught the bug - something that Omicron is now wrapping up

Evidently Boris Johnson knew the course this pandemic was taking which explains the garden party he hosted at number 10 Downing Street last month.

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Originally Posted by dinagam

Evidently Boris Johnson knew the course this pandemic was taking which explains the garden party he hosted at number 10 Downing Street last month.

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Get the facts straight. A garden party last month would have been in December. In the UK ?

I think the actual party was May 2020. About the same time many people were having socially distanced street parties to celebrate VE day.

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Originally Posted by goji

Get the facts straight. A garden party last month would have been in December. In the UK ?

I think the actual party was May 2020.

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The challenge would be finding a month in which Number Ten wasn't hosting a party!

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Originally Posted by Old git

The 90% unvaccinated in ICU statement has been widely bandied about, but the BMJ's fact check piece shows it to be untrue:

https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o5

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Even the 61% of Covid Cases in ICU confirmed in this link as being unvaccinated in September is a statistically significant proportion showing the benefits of vaccination given that the unvaccinated only make up 22% of the population.

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Originally Posted by goji

The vaccines reduce the incidence rate for severe COVID.

The UK has one of the highest vaccination rates and once almost everyone has been vaccinated, the rate of vaccination will slow down, because there is hardly anyone else left to do.

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The UK had one of the highest vaccine rates in the early days. The effectiveness of the UK vaccine drive waned, undermined by the feckless government. The UK are now just average in proportion of population vaccinated.

https://www.sortiraparis.com/news/co...ountry/lang/en

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...s-tracker.html

The situation here is exacerbated by the risible charismo of some, overwhelmingly young, people refusing to wear masks on public transport for example. It seems to be considered an expression of manhood by the males and one of defiant Karenism by the females.

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Originally Posted by Oliver2

The situation here is exacerbated by the risible charismo of some, overwhelmingly young, people refusing to wear masks on public transport for example. It seems to be considered an expression of manhood by the males and one of defiant Karenism by the females.

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Check out the size of the gaps between the fibres of ordinary masks and the size of virus particles - it's like trying to stop sand with a chain link fence. There's also a few YouTube videos of people exhaling cigarette smoke while wearing a mask - it's clear that most of your breath just shoots out sideways.

Masks were mandated solely to allow governments to be seen to be 'doing something' - national placebos. Their impact is negligible, and possibly counterproductive, by giving a false sense of security..

Just one of MANY sites both Govt and scientific that states mask wearing, if fitted properly and made from the right materials etc, while not perfect by any stretch DO help in the overall aim of reducing the spread of virus.....

"Do masks protect against Omicron variant?

Masks continue to be effective at reducing the risk of contracting or spreading COVID-19, including the Omicron variant, according to the CDC. That's because masks are not variant specific. Instead, they act as a barrier, trapping and filtering out virus particles from the air we breathe, Dr. Schaffner says.

However, masks are an imperfect barrier, meaning some virus particles still slip through. The likelihood some particles escape is probably even greater when it comes to the Omicron variant.

"Omicron produces more virus, even than Delta," Dr. Schaffner says, pointing out that some research has found the variant infects and multiplies 70 times faster than Delta. "So, the masks' capacity to interrupt or reduce transmission back and forth is likewise reduced."

But that doesn't mean masks are worthless against Omicron. Rather, masking is just one piece of the puzzle when it comes to protecting you and your community from the variant.

"We have to think of these interventions as though they were a series of Swiss cheese slices," Dr. Schaffner says. "Each slice produces a barrier, but it has holes in it! It's not perfect. So, you can't rely on just one intervention to protect us. We have to do a whole series of things."

Of course, the most robust slice of cheese would be the vaccine. In fact, "vaccines remain the best public health measure to protect people from COVID-19," according to the CDC. Although even those who are vaccinated (or have their booster) should still start, or continue, wearing a mask, especially in crowded indoor situations Danielle Zerr, MD, medical director of infection prevention at Seattle Children's Hospital, tells Health.

As Dr. Schaffner notes, "Omicron can even infect people who are fully vaccinated and boosted, so we don't want to be spreaders to others, even if breakthrough infections are mild."

This echoes CDC guidelines which state people should wear masks indoors in areas where community transmission of COVID-19 is high or substantial."

https://www.health.com/condition/inf...micron-variant

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Originally Posted by Old git

Check out the size of the gaps between the fibres of ordinary masks and the size of virus particles - it's like trying to stop sand with a chain link fence. There's also a few YouTube videos of people exhaling cigarette smoke while wearing a mask - it's clear that most of your breath just shoots out sideways.

Masks were mandated solely to allow governments to be seen to be 'doing something' - national placebos. Their impact is negligible, and possibly counterproductive, by giving a false sense of security..

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1 Virus particles are often attached to water droplets which ARE big enough to be filtered out by the masks.
2 There have been trials which show proper FFP3 marks are very effective at protecting the wearer from COVID. See link. Of course the anti-vaxxer lobby never look for evidence and never learn anything from it.

https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/...s-dramatically

How queer for those who are already vaxxed multiple times and who can't wait for the subsequent boosters ad infinitum are poring over the size of virus particles and mask efficacy. Nancy Pelosi has not been perturbed by the viruses and is still strutting about in her designer cloth masks. I wonder if she too is privy to the machinations of the pandemic.

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Originally Posted by Oliver2

The situation here is exacerbated by the risible charismo of some, overwhelmingly young, people refusing to wear masks on public transport for example. It seems to be considered an expression of manhood by the males and one of defiant Karenism by the females.

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In the U,S, it appears to be more of an expression of "Trumphood" than anything else - as the right-wing supporters of that idiot make up a healthy percentage of the anti-vaxers.

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Originally Posted by Dodger

In the U,S, it appears to be more of an expression of "Trumphood" than anything else - as the right-wing supporters of that idiot make up a healthy percentage of the anti-vaxers.

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Whereas in the UK, vaccine uptake is lower in the urban Labour voting areas. The people who The Guardian claims are "educated" urban voters when their voting pattern matches the Guardian's stance. However, these urban voters are too thick to interpret multiple independent sources of data showing the benefits of vaccines.
The Guardian will not draw any attention to that.

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Originally Posted by goji

Whereas in the UK, vaccine uptake is lower in the urban Labour voting area.

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Hmm. Those who voted for the government are more likely to follow it's recommendations than those who didn't vote for it. No surprise there!

No one could ever accuse me of voting Conservative, ever- and I chose to follow the advice of the NHS, which is under threat of more privatisation but still on the side of the angels. Unlike our politicians, of both sides.