Is Babylon Sauna rumored to close soon? [Now permanently closed]

Has anyone heard the rumors that Babylon might close in a few years? I heard this from two people who visited Bangkok before the lockdown. The last time I was there was in 2018, but would love to go again once travel and tourism resumes.

Patanawet probably attends their staff meetings so he'd be the most reliable source of information about something that might happen in a few years from now.

It's been talked-about for two or three years. I would suspect that its situation in an up-market neighbourhood makes it vulnerable to redevelopment. At the same time, older posters will be aware of how much the clientele numbers have declined over the past two decades.
I shall refrain from any trips down memory lane to avoid tempting fate.

It has been closed for a year and will not be reopening.

Any link ?

No link, I asked a Thai friend in BKK recently...

Q. Is Babylon open again?
A. No, it is closed for good.

The same information. Closed, sold to developer/condo.

There was nothing on their website to indicate they are closed, but when I viewed their facebook page there is a notice stating they are “Temporarily closed due to the COVID situation”. The notice is dated January 3rd, 2021, so maybe gerefan2's friend has more up-to-date information. See screenshot below:

Attachment 10835

http://www.babylonbangkok.com/en/accommodations

PS I did not see Moses' post when I posted this message. So two sources saying it is permanently closed. :(

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Originally Posted by Moses

The same information. Closed, sold to developer/condo.

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It is truly sad to hear confirmation of this closing. You know we often talk about how unique and special "the Thai experience is" but there is no more true saying of Babylon than that. In my mind it is/was truly unique in the world. No other sauna/spa could ever come even close to matching it -- artful, friendly, clean yet "lusty" as its website describes it. Why it was almost a place you could take your mother to for dinner!? :D

Frankly I had never noticed a downward trend in attendance. It seemed to be always brimming with its special mix of nationalities, races, ages and sexual preferences.

What does this mean for this ilk post-COVID? Are all such establishments doomed? What about Pattaya's Sansuk (not that it could ever hold a candle to Babylon)? Is it inevitable that the "gay scene" will fade into the past? To be replaced by what, that is the question: apps, metrosexual bars and little else, perhaps?

The news of Babylon's closing has been around since last summer. But it definitely reopened some time after the lockdown. I sometimes go down Soi Nanta/Mozart to visit friends who live in the Sukhothai Residences across the road from Babylon. I usually see some guys walking to or from Babylon. Looking into the garden in front of the complex, it does seem as though there is some activity.

My friends told me that the land area which includes Babylon is a lot larger. Seems it is owned by two mega-rich brothers. One wants to sell and the other who owns the Babylon part does not. Besides, land prices are significantly down even in that area. They reckon Babylon will remain open for a while yet. But I do stress this is second hand info.

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Originally Posted by Marc K

What about Pattaya's Sansuk.?

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Been closed since at least December when I arrived in Pattaya. Probably a lot longer.

Shows no sign of reopening.

Marc K wrote:

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What does this mean for this ilk post-COVID? Are all such establishments doomed?

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Only if gay guys lose their taste for sleaze.

I can't see that ever happening, anywhere in the world.

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Originally Posted by a447

Only if gay guys lose their taste for sleaze.
I can't see that ever happening, anywhere in the world.

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Most of the bookshops closed, because Amazon sell books cheaper.

In some countries, most of the electronics shops closed because people can buy the products on line cheaper.

Berlin, with a thriving gay scene, was down to just one gay sauna when I was last there a couple of years ago.
London still had a few scruffy saunas pre-covid, but they didn't seem to attract many younger customers.
Perhaps people discovered they can get what they want on a phone app ? Rather than paying almost £20 to visit a sauna, then finding the sauna is having a quiet night.

I cannot say I like this, but it's another change we might just need to adapt to.

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Originally Posted by a447

a447 wrote:

Only if gay guys lose their taste for sleaze.

I can't see that ever happening, anywhere in the world.

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I can definitely see that happening. In fact has already happened... in Bangkok, San Francisco, Berlin, Amsterdam, Honolulu ... and a zillion other places. (Sansuk Pattaya to follow?)

I've never heard a good definition of what constitutes "sleaze". Perhaps a447 you can help me out. Perhaps in our generation we needed to seek out "sleaze" as a way for compensating for our inner insecurities and our feelings of rejection and lack of acceptance by the larger (mostly) straight society?

I think the younger generation sees things a little bit differently than we... perhaps not needing this "crutch" quite as much. Maybe they have more self-esteem and feelings of self-worth and feelings of acceptance than we do/did? Not sure.

This could also account for why there seem to be far fewer young(er) sex-tourists coming to Pattaya. Without replenishment and rejuvenation, Pattaya can never boom (boom-boom?) again.

Demographics doom establishments that don't account for this change.

I would loosely define "sleaze" as the hands-on experience I have enjoyed in such places as Niceboys, Goodboys, Golden Cock, Eros, Natureboy and similar bars, as opposed to the more conservative gogo bars like Screwboys, Moonlight and Boyzboyzboyz.

I grew up in a country with an "anything-goes" approach to sex where the general idea was to get down and dirty and as often as possible. I gladly accepted the challenge from an early age. I spent an inordinate amount of time in gay cinemas and enjoyed the free-for-all fun. I was also a paid-up member of sex clubs in the Ueno area of Tokyo. I have since sold my memberships - they are like golf club memberships and are treated like investments - and managed to make a very tidy profit! Would I make the same profit if I sold them today? I'm guessing I would as the interest in the various "activities" offered by such clubs still exists among the Japanese, despite other outlets being available.

I was under the impression that all of this was just par for the course - that this is what sex, especially gay sex, is all about. On moving back to Australia I soon discovered that my new gay friends had very different experiences; very tame indeed, compared to Japan. I enjoyed sleaze, they just had basic sex.

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Perhaps in our generation we needed to seek out "sleaze" as a way for compensating for our inner insecurities and our feelings of rejection and lack of acceptance by the larger (mostly) straight society?

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For me, sleazy sex has nothing to do with insecurity. When moving within the gay community I just did what everyone else did. As for feeling in any way rejected by straight people, I can't say I ever really experienced that, even though in my day I'm sure most Japanese would have frowned upon my behaviour despite the fact they were doing the same thing themselves in girlie bars and clubs. But I never experienced any hostility whatsoever and in any case, it would not have bothered me. However, I think your comments may well apply to gays in other countries.

Saunas are still popular in Japan. So why have saunas been closing down in other countries? I'm guessing that is a matter of hygiene. People these days are much more aware of cleanliness, the lack of which I find a total turn-off. I no longer go to saunas. Another worrying feature is the lack of condom use and general safe-sex practices. That's another reason I won't go anymore. I don't want to go to places where guys are having bareback sex.

I think one of the reasons for the lack of -pre-covid customers is the fact that, although Thailand is infamous fir sex tourism, it mainly relates to straight sex. Everyone, straight and gay, knows about Walking Street, but his many have heard of Sunee Plaza, the world centre of sleazy sex for gay men? Did the average Chinese gay guy know about it? Have the gogo bars done any advertising in China? Or India? I've never seen anything here in Australia about gay Thailand.

Babylon would be well-known by the seasoned gay sex tourist, just like the gay beaches around the world. Anyone into saunas would be aware of its reputation and for that reason alone, it will survive.

But only so long as enough gays return to Thailand after the pandemic.

As for younger people, has Thailand ever really attracted them? So is there anything that needs to be "replenished"? I've mainly seen old guys in the bars. (The only young guys have been Asian.) Besides, sleaze is probably not something they have grown up with so it is not what they are looking for.

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Originally Posted by Marc K

Perhaps in our generation we needed to seek out "sleaze" as a way for compensating for our inner insecurities and our feelings of rejection and lack of acceptance by the larger (mostly) straight society?

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Growing up in the 60''s & 70's was an exciting time (to put it mildly), filled with seeking out different ways to express ourselves...freeing ourselves...and ridding ourselves of all the ridiculous religious morality taboos that previous generations were brainwashed into believing. Smoke-filled dingy basements and garages, with braless young girls, face-painted long-hairs, boys-hugging-boys, where nothing matched or lined up perfectly, became the new generations preferred environment. According to the older generation, this became the definition of "Sleaze".

The 60's/70's revolution (in the U.S. anyway) wasn't fueled so much by a need to compensate for anyone's inner insecurities, feelings of rejection, or a lack of acceptance by the larger (mostly) straight society. Conversely, it was more of a movement that got ignited to free ourselves from the insecurities of the older generation, with the understanding that the acceptance by the older generation was no longer needed, nor was it beneficial to the way the world should be headed.

I still get a rush being in a sleazy sex venue where you can let your hair down... slide your hand down a complete strangers underpants...fondle him like you do in your dreams...giving or receiving a blowjob in a dark shadow...or sipping from the same glass that he just came inside. Places that intentionally appear perfect...with people who are intentionally trying to look and act perfect...doing what their bible-thumping parents and grandparents would perceive as being morally perfect, reminds me of roaming with the dinosaurs and bores me to death.

I totally agree with your point about changing times:

With the gay dating apps gaining in popularity the number of gay bars and other public venues will surely decrease over time. And the days of the hidden back-alley gay bars, usually located in the less-than-desirable parts of town, is coming to an end for the very points you emphasized. The older generations have died off, and those pot-smoking braless girls and boys-hugging-boys who were spawned back in the 60's & 70's are now running the roost. Being gay is actually in fashion now, and smoking pot is becoming legal. Go figure!

I'm not sure if things are much better now or not. I kinda liked the sleaze of the back alleys and the hiding part...but I'm willing to go with the flow.

The 40 somethings would/should be the generation that are just now 'discovering' Pattaya. Dinnkies and sinnkies with disposable income a plenty to afford more expensive holidays, however for several reasons they aren't. Job insecurity, the cost of property, the
knowledge that old age will be a cold time if they aren't financially prepared etc.

Plus the bank collapse of 2008 ended the 3 year owner/tourists. Those guys who camr for 3 years or so in a 'holiday' from their real jobs before returning home.

The end of Plagueworld might see a 'life's too short' attitude and a resurgence in both tourists and owner/tourists.

"Sleaze" Just a word to describe others sexual fun used by those who don't get any.

I read something elsewhere online that suggested the Babylon property was already being redeveloped. If true, that's really sad news. If anyone is in that area would sure appreciate an update on Babylon.

Permanently closed. End of an era. Coming soon 50 floor condo tower, Sukhothai 2???

I have been assured that the wonderful French restaurant 'le Bouchon', previously in Patpong 2 has moved into the 'original' Babylon building.
I'll be checking it out soon.

Saunas across the world represent another victim of the apps. Just like go go bars.

I for one miss them. And Babylon was the best by a mile.

On this note, can any BKK resident/recent visitor in here provide any info regarding the current situation of the gay saunas in the city?

Was Babylon the only one to close? Have the crowds returned in the other saunas? I guess you have go around with a mask on while in there.
Have the farangs started to concentrate in any specific sauna now that Babylon is gone?

A detailed post/blogpost like the ones Christian used to do would be very useful now for those of us who used to frequent saunas and are looking to visit BKK this summer.

Iam afraid-or know for nearly sure, that such a wonder will not happen. Der Chr himself has told many times he will not visit sauna in BKK again (and I agree-much better the few in provincial cities).
I have read a week or 2-3 ago some other report in another forum (worldwide, used to be good on TH-but that was many yrs ago) someone visited one in suburban BKk (way far from Silom)-this has halved in size and ´crowd (I never really encountered big crowds when I went to sauna-many yrs ago) also halved.
That chain that discriminates farang-and even more elder-by charging them doubled/5-fold entry prices seems to be doing well-seeing their ads etc on Thai sites and some reviews. That probably sums it up..........

I am going to travel to Bangkok this summer. I learned that Babylon sauna is closed :(


What is the best sauna in Bangkok now ? I would like to meet young local guys

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Originally Posted by Oliver2

Saunas across the world represent another victim of the apps. Just like go go bars.

I for one miss them. And Babylon was the best by a mile.

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I loved Babylon in its first incarnation at the top of the soi. Far more Thais than farang in the early years and most of them young. By the time it was established in its second much larger location the balance seemed to change with often more farang than Thais.

I think it was around that time that Chakran off Soi Aree opened. In its early days it really was a piece of heaven and on a par with the first Babylon. Filled with younger Thais, with quite a few either looking for or perfectly happy to hook up with farang. Although a lot smaller than Babylon at that time, with its Moroccan theme, small swimming pool, extra large jacuzzi and steam room plus all the other usual sauna facilities it was a great place to visit. I'm not sure when it changed to become much more Thai for Thai or Thai for Asian but I am told there are now very few farang. If memory serves, it was the first sauna to offer an all nude area.

Heaven near the river end of Silom is stilll open. Accordingly to my bf he's been told by some of his friends that there are still more than a few farang around.

Yes, the old Babylon was the best, even if its maze of staircases was an intellectual challenge. The Obelisk was a pleasant environment- perhaps even luxurious- but didn't seem much of a hunting-ground for falangs. I believe it was closed by the police.....I don't know why.

i will miss babylon...loved the fact it was more than a sex venue...i could spend the whole day there...relax by the pool...enjoy a few drinks...moren than adequate restaurant...not going to pretend itb was great food....good sex...id arrive around 10am...leave after 7pm...enjoyed the occaional foam party..

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Originally Posted by Armando

I loved Babylon in its first incarnation at the top of the soi. Far more Thais than farang in the early years and most of them young. By the time it was established in its second much larger location the balance seemed to change with often more farang than Thais.

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I never experienced this first version of Babylon, but I guess it must been what gave Babylon the reputation of the "sauna-to-go" in Bangkok. As for me, in my last 6 years of traveling to Bangkok, I never enjoyed Babylon that much. The facilities were great but It was getting overrun by farangs well into their retirement years, and the number of young locals was decreasing on each visit. Even in a smaller saunas like Mania in Silom, albeit more run-down, I could always find 1-2 young Thais to have fun with. The only occasions I liked Babylon was during their Songran's foam parties, but that was mostly because of more young people being in town.

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Originally Posted by Armando

I think it was around that time that Chakran off Soi Aree opened. In its early days it really was a piece of heaven and on a par with the first Babylon. Filled with younger Thais, with quite a few either looking for or perfectly happy to hook up with farang. Although a lot smaller than Babylon at that time, with its Moroccan theme, small swimming pool, extra large jacuzzi and steam room plus all the other usual sauna facilities it was a great place to visit. I'm not sure when it changed to become much more Thai for Thai or Thai for Asian but I am told there are now very few farang. If memory serves, it was the first sauna to offer an all nude area.

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Never went to Chakran. Heard their facilities are good, but that the crowd lacks young local twinks.
I would say my favorite sauna in Bangkok is R3 in Rama IX. I think it might have a new name name now.
I used to go there during their O-party nights. The place would get packed. It was 90-95% Thai and Chinese, majority of them young and slim.
Yes, a good chunk of them were sticky rice, but just because of the large crowd, I was always able to find a few guys that enjoyed my company and you could still off one of their models/performers after their sex show, even if you didn't find anyone interested in you. So, it was almost guaranteed fun for the night. They also used to have foam parties for Songran and it would get completely jam packed, even more than at Babylon.

I know there is another sauna in Bangkok that does some sort of masked party night. Went once, but don't remember then name.

Anyway, as long as masks will be required inside, saunas will lose much of their appeal. I tried a few last year in Europe and the Sates where you had to go around with a mask on. It takes away so much from the cruising experience.

Has anyone got any news of Sansuk in Pattaya?

Has been closed for a few years.

They had a notice on the door saying opening in either January or February but it never happened and the notice disappeared.

Was still closed when I left Pattaya at the end of March

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Originally Posted by Oliver2

Yes, the old Babylon was the best, even if its maze of staircases was an intellectual challenge. The Obelisk was a pleasant environment- perhaps even luxurious- but didn't seem much of a hunting-ground for falangs. I believe it was closed by the police.....I don't know why.

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I was at Obelisk a few times. I specially liked the jacuzzi on the roof. The problem I thought was that it was spread over ten small floors and therefore you could spend quite a time hiking up and down the stairs. It did have one tiny lift that could squeeze in about 4 people. But if you were on a lower floor and just missed it to get up to the top, you might have had to wait 4 or 5 minutes to be able to access it for it seemed to stop at every floor.

In addition to Obelisk, there were other saunas before Babylon opened. I have memories of Volt which I believe was one of the first. It was located off Asoke in a soi to the left as you went up towards Rama 9. I enjoyed a few visits there. There was another on the right at the end of a small one-way soi off Ploenchit just before you came to Soi Chidlom. It only lasted a couple of years or so.

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Originally Posted by infoarmor

I never experienced this first version of Babylon, but I guess it must been what gave Babylon the reputation of the "sauna-to-go" in Bangkok.

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When the original Babylon opened it was a revelation. The owner was clearly rich for to the left of the entrance was a large glass-fronted cabinet with antiques. At week-ends there would always be queues at reception, mostly of youngish Thai guys because not many farang had discovered it in its first 2 or 3 years. In addition, on the left there was a waiting room with chairs - also full. As it became more popular, the owner added an additional section to the right with more cabins, yet another staircase which led down to a small coffee shop. This was in addition to the main restaurant above the reception area. A nice touch was that at weekends there would often be a guitarist or flautist playing quiet music.

Not many seemed to be aware that on the left as you entered the restaurant there was a closed in area. This was actually a massage room with a decent sized bed. I recall it was looked after by the sweetest guy named Gung. Although it was a sauna with so much free sex, I happily found myself in the arms of Gung a few times!

Was there any more enjoyable time than sitting with a drink in the open air at one of the bar tables on the top floor with a parade of gorgeous Thai boys in towels constantly drifting past? At the southern end of the balcony area was a series of large showers and many of the lads had not dried themselves properly, droplets of water still glistening on their smooth bodies!

Babylon was the first Thai sauna I visited and, having being "out" for only about three years, the availability of young Thais- and their surprising interest in me- was a revelation. I'd been happy to pay for my enjoyment but being with guys who actually wanted it was far more enjoyable.

Do you remember a short-lived sauna a few metres along from Solid Boys, off Soi Tarntawan?

And what about The Colony? did you ever go there?

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Originally Posted by Oliver2

Do you remember a short-lived sauna a few metres along from Solid Boys, off Soi Tarntawan?

And what about The Colony? did you ever go there?

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I had been out for quite a bit longer and had good memories of Le Continental and another sauna in Paris, as well as one of the Thermos saunas in Amsterdam. The many Vietnamese in Paris probably converted me exclusively to Asian boys! My first sauna experience was actually in Boston when a friend took me and had to guide me around as I was very much a novice then. Once in Madrid I did check out one of that city's saunas. Unfortunately hairy men are a turn-off for me and all the patrons seemed to be tanned and very hairy!

In Bangkok I remember the bars near the location of Solid but not a sauna. Also I heard of The Colony - and The Beach - but never visited them. If I recall correctly, they were a little further out than Asoke and because of the traffic that was about the limit of my wanderings until the Skytrain opened. As soon as Babylon opened, i had no desire to visit others.

Heaven near the river end of Silom was easy to get to and was certainly open by 1995. Although the facilities were quite basic, it did have a little garden with a jacuzzi and a lot of handsome guys used to be there. If I was staying close to the river, I'd sometimes pay a visit. Thereafter, with the closure of the first Babylon and the opening of the Skytrain with a stop at Soi Aree, Chakran was very easy to get to. I really enjoyed my visits there until I decided my interests in saunas was waning.

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Originally Posted by Oliver2

Has anyone got any news of Sansuk in Pattaya?

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Sad to hear of the demise of the Sansuck in Pattaya. A friend, a resident gay expat tells me that there is no talk of it reopening when tourism really begins ( Maybe September/October). It had declined pre-Covid in early 2000 when I last went there like a lot of the Pattaya infrastructure and my visits had become a lot less frequent since discovering the place in 2005 when you could always find a good crowd of farangs and Thai boys around the pool and circulating in the dark maze upstairs seeking and finding sex in the cubicles. I stayed there a couple of times in the adjoining guest house although bringing offed boys back was not convenient due to the distance from the bar areas of Boystown or Sunee.

If it has closed for good, I shall be sad. I recall Punya's story as an entrepreneur well; he was always a charming host and would go out of his way to talk to P and me. He must be heart -broken after all the work and expense.

Pad and I would always ensure that we'd call in for one evening during our stays in Pattaya; the restaurant was reliable and sitting around the pool as dusk fell was a pleasure for us both. And I thought the pool much better than those at Babylon and House of Male (Chiang Mai)

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Originally Posted by Oliver2

If it has closed for good, I shall be sad. I recall Punya's story as an entrepreneur well; he was always a charming host and would go out of his way to talk to P and me. He must be heart -broken after all the work and expense.

Pad and I would always ensure that we'd call in for one evening during our stays in Pattaya; the restaurant was reliable and sitting around the pool as dusk fell was a pleasure for us both. And I thought the pool much better than those at Babylon and House of Male (Chiang Mai)

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Very much agree Oliver. The extensive development of the Sauna and the guesthouse must have cost a lot and it’s a pity that such a excellent asset for us gays is no more. I think it was during my second visit in about 2006 that Punya showed me round the place and talked about his previous life and relationships.
Yes the pool was better than the one at Babylon and sitting round it either on my own or with a boyfriend in the warm dusk evening air is a happy memory for me.

I'm pretty sure from FB posts that Punya fully intends to reopen sansuk as soon as it's legally allowed and there are sufficient tourists to keep it afloat

So I suggest that we don't write it off yet!

Sansuk has always been a happy memory for me - a cozy atrium by the pool and a dark maze with the only place for free sex in Pattaya ;-) But in recent years, before its closure, there were fewer thai boys and much more elderly farangs seeking help on all issues. In addition, some plumbing facilities and furniture fell into disrepair and were not repaired. I think in this regard, the sauna has become as much a victim of dating apps as go-go. In any case, I hope that they will still be able to open and prove themselves in the best possible way.

Many falang visitors , perhaps most, don't have pools at their hotels and so Sansuk's was always a draw. Add to that a decent and well-priced restaurant. It meant that even without large numbers of young locals to meet, it was still a decent place to visit before the bars opened. And that was certainly true of P and me. He liked the fitness room as well. I didn't.
I hope Colmx is right.

Many years ago..I went to a sauna,,forget the name, help??? I took the sky train all the way down Sukhumvit to the end..then a taxi for a min or two,,,,anyone recall, maybe it is still there...Tks..