newalaan2 and Has the price gone up?
тАж or to be more specific, has the price charged by go-go boys in Bangkok gone up to 2,000 baht for a short time, or is my experience, which IтАЩm about to relate, just an isolated incident?
After being in Thailand for over 2 months I decided to visit a тАШSoi TwilightтАЩ go-go bar for the first time this trip, figuring, blow the expense, letтАЩs see what I am missing. LOL!
I decided on Hotmale Bar as IтАЩd seen my erstwhile regular waiter working at a new bar and thought it would be a safe option and I was trying to avoid two other тАШboysтАЩ.
Immediately I sat down I liked one boy above all others, but there were quite a few to choose from that suited my taste. The youngest, cutest mamasan IтАЩd ever seen sat with me and asked if I liked any of the тАШboysтАЩ. Well, apart from him тАж LOL! I indicated that I liked one тАШboyтАЩ in particular, but it was too early to decide.
Oh my God! One of the boys whom IтАЩd been ignoring when he тАШphoned was now working in the bar as a coyote dancer! He is from Laos and I first met him in the now closed Heartbeat Club. Then, to cap it all and make matters worse, the other boy whom IтАЩve been ignoring and, who I thought was working in X-Boys, was now working as a go-go boy! Although he was a coyote dancer when I first met him. He is from Cambodia and wanted to be my boyfriend during my last trip earlier this year. And, if looks could kill, I swear I would have instantly been reduced to a pile of dust and unable to recount my experience here on SN! LOL!
Later, another mamasan sat with me and asked if I liked any of the тАШboysтАЩ. I indicated which тАШboyтАЩ I was interested in, but I could not see him, the mamasan then pointed out тАШmyтАЩ boy was sitting with a female on the other side of the bar. тАЭOh тАж is he straight then?тАЭ I asked. тАЬNo, he gay.тАЭ The mamasan replied, тАЬHe just talking.тАЭ Surprisingly, I still felt disappointed.
After another short period a third mamasan then sat next to me and asked the same question as the previous two mamasans. Again I made the same reply, but added that the тАШboyтАЩ was sitting with a woman. тАЬAh, he just talking, he will not go, he can sit with you.тАЭ тАЬOh, no, no.тАЭ I said, тАЬLet him sit with the woman.тАЭ The mamasan then left me. At that point I thought it would be better if I just left the bar to avoid any further complications with my two former тАШacquaintancesтАЩ, but before I could do anything, the too quick off the mark mamasan brought тАШmyтАЩ boy across to see me. I apologised to him and said I was sorry to interrupt his conversation, I didnтАЩt know the mamasan was going to bring him to me. The very sweet boy said тАЬNever mind, no problem.тАЭ I bought him a drink, which cost 320 baht.
The mamasan approached us and asked if I wanted to book the тАШboyтАЩ. I asked him if he wanted to go with me. He said he wanted to go and then went off to change. The off fee is 400 baht.
The show was about to start and I indicated to the mamasan that I wanted to watch some of the show. It started with 4 guys covered in soapy suds and washing each other тАж seen this many times before, but this time, I found the four individuals very sexy. A lady-boy friend of тАШmyтАЩ boy accompanied the act lip-syncing to two songs, one of which was the theme to тАШTitanicтАЩ тАж a particular favourite of mine.
The second act involved candle dancing with four boys, one of whom was my previous companion from Laos, all sporting magnificent hard-ons! Hmm тАж yes, there was no doubt about it, I still found him very sexy.
While all this was going on the boy cuddled up to me and held my hand tightly. He said he was new to the bar and didnтАЩt like the work, but he needed to make lots of money. I didnтАЩt establish why the urgency, perhaps some family crisis?
We walked to Silom Road and hailed a taxi. We were back in my condo fairly quickly.
Ah тАж such a difference with a gay boy. He was so affectionate, so sexy and played his part very well. I almost forgot I was with a money boy, everything seemed so natural.
We both readily agreed to see each other again and exchanged telephone numbers. He finished off his drink, got dressed and I took some photos of him. I thought to myself that I would happily see him 2 or 3 times a week he was so lovely and had made such a good impression on me. He was exactly the sort of guy IтАЩd happily have a relationship with if it was on the cards.
I then handed him the usual 1,600 baht for a short-time and was surprised at the look on his face. I checked the notes in case IтАЩd made a mistake. He then surprised me by saying it was not enough, he wanted 2,000 baht! What? No, I said, 1,500 for a short time and 2,000 baht for a long time. No, he insisted, he wanted 2,000 baht he had his rent to pay and other things I didnтАЩt quite understand. Oh dear тАж I didnтАЩt want, what had been up until that point, a very lovely evening to be spoiled. He kept repeating he needed more money. Perhaps it was my fault for not establishing from the outset the price to be paid, but I donтАЩt usually do that as I was under the impression the rates had remained unchanged at 1,500 baht for a short time.
It could have ended really badly and would have spoiled the whole fantasy and I wanted to avoid that at all costs. I did want to see him again, but at 2,000 baht an encounter it would not be as frequently as I had first thought. He wasnтАЩt going to accept the lesser amount of 1,600 baht and I didnтАЩt want to resort to asking him to leave, so I offered him a further 200 baht, which he agreed to you. But when I checked my change I had 300 baht in 100 baht notes and gave him the 300 i.e. a total of 1,900 baht, which he happily accepted. He then asked when he would see me again, so I saw that as an indication that he had not lost face and was happy with the amount paid. But good lord, 2,000 baht for little more than an hourтАЩs тАШworkтАЩ seemed positively over generous to me, especially when compared to the daily national minimum wage of 300 baht and the hard work and effort many Thais put in to their everyday employment.
I wondered afterwards if the тАШboysтАЩ are trying to make up for having fewer customers by raising their rates? Was this just an isolated incident or have the rates we pay the тАШboysтАЩ in Bangkok recently gone up. And who decides such things?
Earlier on in the evening I was totally happy with my chosen тАШboyтАЩ and would have happily seen him 2 or 3 times a week. Now I was not so sure. Perhaps IтАЩll have to restrict my outings to the Bangkok go-go bars to once or twice a month.
But, when all is said and done, I had a fantastic time with the Hotmale go-go boy. The whole thing had a dream like quality to it and it was way above the average encounter with a bar boy. So on that basis, I suppose, it was money well spent. It is just unfortunate that I canтАЩt afford too many such encounters, but I now know that he requires 2,000 baht for future visits and paying him what he wants will avoid any awkward moments at the end. In the interim, IтАЩll have to look out for less expensive Internet contacts, i.e. if they too havenтАЩt also raised their prices тАж LOL!
The next day he called me, but my тАШphone was switched off. The following day he called again, around 10:00pm, and asked if I wanted him to come round. I said it was too late, but I would see him the next evening before he started work, but on condition that I did not pay the bar fine if he wanted 2,000 baht. He readily agreed to this and I did see him again and experienced the same pleasurable time with him.
Yet again, he asked to see me the next day! I joked (although, it is actually true) I donтАЩt have the stamina for such regular sexual encounters and, although I didnтАЩt say it, тАЬтАж or the money to pay you 2,000 baht several times a weekтАЭ! LOL!
Re: Has the price gone up?
Quote:
Originally Posted by egel
Have to say though that it doesnt seem to have gone up at all since I started cumming here(Pattaya) 10 years ago which, as I have pointed out before, does seem rather odd.
It hasn't gone up in the 14 years or so I've been visiting, pattaya has always had a supply outstripping demand situation for as long as I can remember. Pattaya is also a bit unique as it is a haven for younger femme type boys who don't seem to be as in demand from Asians as westerners and also there are many expat westerners in Pattaya who are simply either not on the position to offer or not prepared to pay more than the normal 1000 ST 1500 LT (or less) and there are enough/surplus of boys who are prepared to accept those levels and so that has kept it at these levels for all customers expats or tourists.
There also seems to be a large undercurrent of gay boys aged 16-20 who enjoy the hedonistic lifestyle of Pattaya who simply wouldn't get away with it in Bkk western/foreign sex-for-sale areas which are very strict on ages. That hedonistic lifestyle also requires money for recreational drugs/booze etc.. so there is a need which forces them to accept or undercut rivals if needs be. That also adds to keeping the price down. Bkk lads seem to stick to their guns on tip levels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pong
Chris-that is western countries. You also very well know about Saranrom............appaerently raised prices of this board since I follow it.......there simply is no regulation on it at all
The 'going' rate among Thais for short time sex is Bt500 as you say about Saranrom? not 'that' far off the 'daily wage'. That is the 'normal' rate in Thailand........The OP is merely giving us actual real life now examples of his experiences, there is nothing "apparently" about it, where it seems his previous experiences of boys accepting tips of Bt1500 and Bt2000 has now changed...........Who has said there is "regulation"? nobody has suggested that at all! we are talking about "expected" tips and what is "generally" acceptable to the boys.
Quote:
Originally Posted by christianpfc
in Bangkok it's the sevenfold, clearly out of the norm.
Absolutely, the 'norm' between Thais is Bt500 even in Bkk......Pong himself agrees on this. The 'norm' in Pattaya is Bt1000 ST Bt1500 LT (a westerner haunt), unless Scottish-guy is correct and there has been a recent general change to higher levels, but I'm not aware of any and I visit regularly and talk about rates with boys on may occasions, (or usually they do) even though I'm not offing them. So Bkk is well over the norm.
Specifically with regard to Soi Twilight bars Bkk, it's just my opinion but I'm farly sure it's the "Asian influence" which has led to rate increases being up at Bt1500>2000 ST and Bt2000>2500 LT, as Japanese, Chinese, HK, Korean customers tend to be more generous than westerners anyway and they also tend not to confront boys about requested rates, also mamasans will be collectively suggesting the higher rates when asked, and although I never use mamasans to enquire about boys, I would ask the boys myself directly, many do use the services of mamasans especially Asians as they like to go through the 'correct procedure and etiquette. Have a look at who influences the Soi Twilight bars and boys....it's definitely NOT westerners/farangs!
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottish-guy
but certainly in Pattaya the expected rates for tourists have gradually increased to 1500/2000
Bt1500 ST and Bt2000 LT is now the standard level in Pattaya? This is news to me and probably to many. Boys themselves I know in Pattaya when I visited as recently as Sept/Oct told me then it was still bt1000 for short time or less depending how desperate they are and if it is a regular or expat customer, with Bt1500 long time. You may be right that some in BT may try for more, but I don't think it is the 'norm'......maybe SG has more updated sources of info than I, and even if that is the case it still at odds with recent conversations I've had with boys in Pattaya......perhaps those visitors in Pattaya now using the services of boys can advise us of their experiences.
Re: Has the price gone up?
To clarify - it's my experience (and what I hear from others) that Pattaya rates are now around 1500/2000 but I did try to qualify it by saying that these sums are "expected" and that they applied to "tourists".
I'm not suggesting that all the boys will get that level of fee or that they would receive it from ex-pat clients or frequent/regular visitors - and to be clear, I'm talking about go-go boys rather than beer bar freelancers or Gay Romeo meets.
Sure there will be boys who will accept 1000 ST fee (and in some cases considerably less) but I believe many tourists are not inclined to haggle over the price and will just pay what the boy suggests unless it's outrageous. I fall into that category myself and would not object to paying 2000 LT (I don't like ST at all) - but that's a fixed 2000, unlike others who might agree to 1500 but then bung 200 on top as an "extra tip"
;)
Re: Has the price gone up?
Quote:
Originally Posted by christianpfc
I have been paying (the same for gogo bars or beer bars) Pattaya ST 1000 LT 1500
Yes I have also always regarded gogo barboys and beer barboys as the same at the levels you state.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottish-guy
To clarify - it's my experience (and what I hear from others) that Pattaya rates are now around 1500/2000 but I did try to qualify it by saying that these sums are "expected" and that they applied to "tourists". and to be clear, I'm talking about go-go boys rather than beer bar freelancers or Gay Romeo meets.
Also to be clear and clarify, the sums I discussed with boys from the bars in Sept/Oct is the "expected" rate or what is accepted as the "norm" as a tourist. They are rates for agogo and bar boys, I was not talking about freelancers or gay romeo boys either. But I accept maybe I am behind the times and the boys I talked to also not up to speed.
So your experience and that of 'these others' you have heard from recently, are talking about taking boys off from agogos or beer bars, and the boys, on being given or discussing the tip have been disappointed with bt1500 for overnight and have advised you and 'these others' that the 'norm' or the generally accepted rate has now risen to Bt2000. To be clear we are not talking about you and 'these others' voluntarily giving a higher level of tips, but incidents where on offering or discussing 'normal' tip levels the boys have rejected bt1500 for LT and specified these new higher levels.
Hopefully more Pattaya visitors, recent or there now can give us their experiences to get a sense of what the actual situation is there at the moment. If 'these other' people you refer to are members of the Board perhaps they could chip in with their examples too so we can get a wide ranging set of responses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newalaan2
undercurrent of gay boys (DELETED) who enjoy the hedonistic lifestyle of Pattaya
To make sense of my post which has been "edited"...(the term the owner uses when he actually means deleted or censored), because of the use of the number 16 and in response to the owners declaration that I broke the rules, I will repost the section as the deletion has rendered the passage meaningless in the context it was intended. A PM I received from the owner stated that my single, stand-alone reference to a person below the age of 18 was a breach of the rules as according to him that single one-word reference was in fact a whole discussion of underage sex.
Reposted section......which is on topic with regard to prices and why levels are at a difference level in Pattaya compared to Bkk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newalaan2
There also seems to be a large undercurrent of gay boys 'coming through the ranks' and not yet twenty years of age (legal age to enter a bar) who have no real parental overseeing and enjoy the hedonistic (pursuit of or devotion to pleasure) lifestyle of Pattaya, I refer to drugs and fun. That hedonistic lifestyle also requires money for recreational drugs/booze etc.. so at 18-and-above/legal age when they become able to enter the sex industry there is an already a pre-conceived and lower expectation of tip levels in Pattaya engrained compared to Bkk. This need forces them to accept the Pattaya 'norms' or undercut rivals if needs be which also adds to keeping the price down. Bkk lads seem to stick to their guns on tip levels.
I apologise to the membership for using a single, one-off reference to 'below eighteen' in a post and which according to the owner is a breach which puts the Board in jeopardy. But, despite the accusation of the owner that I was deliberately 'pushing the envelope' (whatever he takes that piece of nonsense to mean) or breaching any rules, it was quite unintentional on my part.
But maybe other members can give me a sense of their opinion of what they understand to constitute a 'discussion' and if single-word references such as 'underage' or 'sixteen'' etc can be construed as 'discussing' as opposed to simply making a passing reference, and if they consider that using these one-word references breaches the underage sex discussion rule. That would let me know other members have a clear understanding that use of a single word like 'underage' or 'sixteen' in a post would appear to be a breach of the rules, and even though unintentional, am clearly the only one reading the understanding of the rule incorrectly. That along with my clear stupidity in thinking that if there are another thousand posts with 'underage' in them, mine might be ok too. If so, thus my apology.
I was accused of "pushing the envelope" and deliberately "breaking the rules" as Surfcrest used the term "as you know" (you are) in his PM to me today. He has also accused me of being in cohorts with others to de-rail the Board on another thread, I really can't see how this nonsense of suggesting I am deliberately trying to derail the Board can help foster goodwill or is in the interests of the Board. I have been a member here for years and am only interested in seeing the Board back to it's most vibrant and busy self, I would hope my posting record would show that, so why would I deliberately make posts/break rules to put it in jeopardy...or want to derail the board? motive? reason?
Just to note.........a simple search reveals 65 pages....sixty-five...which equates to OVER 1,000 references to underage sex on this Board including one from a member named Surfcrest.
Two examples out of 1,000 underage sex posts on SGT-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surfcrest
they most certainly do with underage girls with that side of the sex industry
Is this 'reference' to underage sex the same as discussing it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaymandenmark
sleaze ally with underage boys on yaabaa
Is this 'reference' to underage the same as discussing it?
So could the owner please clearly and unambiguously state what constitutes a DISCUSSION of underage sex and if a single one-off word or reference such as using the word 'underage' , the numbers to indicate underage, or synonyms of "underage" are indeed classed as DISCUSSING the topic. Thank you in advance and a very Merry Christmas filled with some of his very own good cheer to Surfcrest and staff.
Re: Has the price gone up?
Oh god NOW I know what's going on. newalaan2 and a447 are a hydra. Look at their long-winded posts, quoting obscure passages and demanding explanations. Could their joint avatar be a stamping foot? Do we have a "hissy fit" smilie?
Re: Has the price gone up?
We'll spotted! But what took you so long? :))
Re: newalaan2 and Has the price gone up?
Unfortunately newalaan, IтАЩm in a тАЬdammed if you do, damned if I donтАЩtтАЭ тАЬCatch 22тАЭ situation if there ever was one;
If I edit your post and donтАЩt say anything, you complain. If I edit your post and I say something, you complain. If I carefully try to tip toe around words that I know would purposely annoy you, like тАЬdeletedтАЭтАжyou complain. I hope this fully explains the "edited" caption I left in your post to clearly show what was edited.
If I edit your post and make a note on your post as to why, that embarrasses you and you complain. If I send you a private PM explaining why I edited your postтАжyou complain.
This, however, is not going to stop me from doing what little moderating I do, in support of what few Posting Rules and Guidelines we have. You already know, by my prior discussions on the topic and by the amplified current version of the rule applying to underage discussions that a reference will be moderated.
So, is this youтАжshocked and horrified at my interpretation of the Rule and by way of having your post editedтАжor as I politely relayed to you by way of a PM that youтАЩre тАЬpushing the envelopeтАЭ?
Next, let me show you what was edited in the context that you posted. I have already re-edited back, what you originally wrote for the full context as you posted it here in the privacy of the Holding Room. Remember, this is a thread asking whether the amount paid to rent boys for sex has gone up;
Quote:
Originally Posted by newalaan2
Has the price gone up?
It hasn't gone up in the 14 years or so I've been visiting, pattaya has always had a supply outstripping demand situation for as long as I can remember. Pattaya is also a bit unique as it is a haven for younger femme type boys who don't seem to be as in demand from Asians as westerners and also there are many expat westerners in Pattaya who are simply either not on the position to offer or not prepared to pay more than the normal 1000 ST 1500 LT (or less) and there are enough/surplus of boys who are prepared to accept those levels and so that has kept it at these levels for all customers expats or tourists.
There also seems to be a large undercurrent of gay boys aged 16-20 who enjoy the hedonistic lifestyle of Pattaya who simply wouldn't get away with it in Bkk western/foreign sex-for-sale areas which are very strict on ages. That hedonistic lifestyle also requires money for recreational drugs/booze etc.. so there is a need which forces them to accept or undercut rivals if needs be. That also adds to keeping the price down. Bkk lads seem to stick to their guns on tip levels.
I've edited the version in this thread to reflect what you originally posted as well. And now comparing this to the Posting Rules and Guidelines;
Quote:
Members are encouraged to voice opinions on a wide range of topics, while still being civil to others.
There are some topics that may not be discussed and which may put the Board in jeopardy. These are:
тАв The discussion of under age sex or the involvement in any persons in this illegal activity.
anyone under the age of 18 in a sexual context*, or whether they are partially of fully nude.
тАв Negative references to ThailandтАЩs royal family. Thailand has very strict laws about this. The authorities have varying ideas on what are тАЬnegative referencesтАЭ so, as a general rule, it is better to just avoid the subject.
тАв Making defamatory/libellous statements about any person or organisation.
тАв Displaying pornographic images.
тАв Any new links or quotes to the Thailand Bitch Board after July 26, 2013.
* moderators discretion ( And the filter is set high)
You paraphrase my тАЬeditedтАЭ comment in your post, where I edited out your inappropriate descriptions with тАЬdeleted and censoredтАЭ even though this in NOT what appears. You are misleading in your post when you describe what I wrote to you in the PM I sent. I send you a two line PM saying;
Quote:
You know the rule about underage....why the need to push the envelope newalaan2?
Don't be surprised when I edit this out and to avoid conflict between you and I...please don't break the rules.
And you come back saying that I said;
Quote:
Originally Posted by newalaan2
A PM I received from the owner stated that my single, stand-alone reference to a person below the age of 18 was a breach of the rules as according to him that single one-word reference was in fact a whole discussion of underage sex.
owners declaration that I broke the rules
according to the owner is a breach which puts the Board in jeopardy
I was accused of "pushing the envelope" and deliberately "breaking the rules" as Surfcrest used the term "as you know" (you are) in his PM to me today. He has also accused me of being in cohorts with others to de-rail the Board on another thread, I really can't see how this nonsense of suggesting I am deliberately trying to derail the Board can help foster goodwill or is in the interests of the Board.
Now newalaan2 here is a specific example where you are misleading the membership by inaccurately describing my reaction to your post and the moderating of your reference to 16 year olds in a discussion about the current price of prostitution in Thailand.
I am still waiting for you to support your incorrect assertions on two other posts you havenтАЩt bothered to respond to, not including another post where you say you have something, but arenтАЩt going to reveal that now. You are incredible!
And lastly, you accuse me of initiating the underage discussion in a short quote from a much larger post, not about тАЬHas the price gone up?тАЭ but rather about this very topic and how that applies to the Posting Rules and Guidelines with the change of ownership for the Board.
http://sawatdeenetwork.com/forum/pos...derage#p273015
Is this really about your post newalaan2 or could it possibly be more about your dislike for me? I can only present the facts, as they appear in the thread that was edited, in the reasons it was edited and with the baseline that is our Posting Rules and Guidelines as to when and how future examples of moderating will be carried out.
I look forward to our next discussion on how dangerously youтАЩll come to the edge of the road with the next Rule you challenge, under the banner you call тАЬcensoringтАЭ...despite this, you intentionally trying to mislead the Board about being moderated and spoken to about the infraction.
Surfcrest
Re: newalaan2 and Has the price gone up?
Surfcrest: Thank you for taking the time to explain. Personally, I do not have any problem with your rules and how you enforce them. B-)
Re: newalaan2 and Has the price gone up?
The truth of the matter is that Alaan/Newalaan/Newalaan2 will never be satisfied no matter what response is given to his gripes.
Whilst he does post excellent content on trip reports, he will not accept accept any criticism or moderation whatsoever - and this has been consistent over 3 different SGT owners. It's his opinion or nothing.
I don't know where you go with someone like that :-\
Re: newalaan2 and Has the price gone up?
Well, newalaan2 could always start his own blog for his posts, then he wouldn't have to worry about moderation at all. Maybe that's the best way to go.
Many of his posts are incredibly insightful and he also knows how to write. :ymapplause:
Debating forum rules, on the other hand, to me looks like a waste of time for everyone involved (and for us others who have to wade through that crap).
