The joys of getting old(er) – discuss

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Originally Posted by gerefan2

You’ve deteriorated early then...I guess it’s all that Guinness!

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Well, all depends what you mean as on one hand I'm still thankfully managing to just about hold it all together and still dont look too out of place on a night out......HOWEVER .......under the veneer or hair gel and botox ;) I really wish men were more honest and open with each other about ageing as I cant deny this last two or three years has been a seemingly constantly new rhyme of WTF when being honest with myself, between my hearing starting to go, by reading eyesight going to crap and reading glasses now being used WAY more that I ever thought I'd need. Through to new spurts of hair growing from places I never had hair before or simply creaking and having to bend over and stretch each morning and night just to get in and out of bed without wrecking my back ( any more than it already is).

No one tells you this shit about ageing and so you think that all of a sudden you must be coming down with a ton of serious medical issues that need urgent attention, until you DO confide in someone a bit older who THEN laughs and says "ohhhh YEAH dont worry that happens all of us, welcome to the club !" Fuck if only someone had warned me at least I might not have shit myself just so much thinking I was dying ! :) And dont even start me on hard ons not being the hard ons I USED to have, no one talks about THAT either it seems - well, again until after a few beers and THEN the truth comes out round the table ( if you're in genuine and true company that is) otherwise you just get the "ohhhhh I'm 70 and still fuck like a 20 year old and no viagra for me thanks" - yeah, RIGHT ! :)

Ha, reading the above you can sort of tell it's my 50th next week and I'm feeling ( dreading) it coming eh ! :-) Oh well, no doubt I'll wake up the day after and realise it's just another day and my body will keep decomposing at the same rate as before ( or faster perhaps .....omg, please dont tell me THAT too !! :)

* opps sorry Mods -I've just realised that we (I've) drifted so far off the topic with my above that I can hardly remember the topic anymore ! Do feel free to edit, move or delete the above to a new thread, perhaps entitled "I
So, is getting old(er) really shit then or what?" or some such thing if you wish :)

Well NIrish I was sorry to read that you feel that as you're 50 it's time for you to pursue a more sedentary lifestyle. Still, it gives you more time to chase around after fictitious Matt, a most worthwhile activity.

Well now, NIrish-guy, let’s look at the positives of being fifty, there’s . . . er . . . em . . . well then there’s . . . oh dear, I’m having trouble thinking of any. Ah-ha, yes, there’s . . . no, not that one, it doesn’t qualify. But then there’s . . . nope, that one doesn’t qualify either, it’s more of a negative.

Hmmm . . . let me think, there must be loads, ah, yes, I’ve thought of three things . . .

1. They say fifty is the new forty, don’t they? Yes, I’m sure they do.
2. And, what joy! Soon you will qualify for a Thai retirement visa – what fun you’re going to have applying for it! Just ask all those members currently trying to figure out if they qualify.
3. And cripes, how could I have forgotten, your free bus pass is a mere 10 years away. Bet you can’t wait!

There must be many others, sorry I just can’t think of any. Perhaps other members can jump in and make up for my temporary memory lapse.

Well now, if I wasn't going off to slit my wrists BEFORE I DEFINITELY am now .......

Ha, actually aside from the whole bits falling off you thing I guess one benefit in getting older is that you've learnt to take things in your stride more and generally have a bit more "wit" ( i.e street smarts) than when you were 20 or 30 and so you can smell bullshit when it's being directed at you a whole lot quicker and deal with it accordingly in a much speedier fashion than you would have before perhaps.

You also tend to give a shit less about people and they might think of you too, either about the whole gay thing certainly or just about life in general, so those to me are two definite positives.

And re the whole having more wit thing I guess as you go through life you may not notice that so easily, but when you've a younger guy living with you can see that much more quickly as you point out some very obvious (to you) pitfalls that they're about to make in their life or their work meaning you do tend to stop and just stand back and think "shit, I guess I MUST have learnt SOMETHING up to now after all" !

The other smart part of there then is of course also knowing ( or at least trying to guess) when to stand back and allow your other half to make the obvious mistake that you can see coming, so that they too can learn from their OWN mistakes and not always from yours - as sometimes as I've found its just easier, quicker and you get more thanks AFTER the event for just being there to help pick up the pieces WAY more than you do for always saying "hmmm, you know, I maybe wouldn't do that if I were you because......"

Other plus points are that as you realise how the world "really" works you tend not to stand in line waiting for silly things like some new iPhone x etc and learn what is "really" more important like a nice cup of coffee as you watch the sun come up or set ( whilst then sending your younger half down to stand in the above queue as THEY foolishly think that those things are SO important :)

Meanwhile as for bus pass, as I think those aren't issued here until actual legal retirement age (67) I think I'll just go back to getting ready to cut my wrists again just ...well, I would if my memory wasn't also failing me so badly that I can't seem to remember where I left my damned stanley knife ! :)

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Originally Posted by Nirish guy

Meanwhile as for bus pass, as I think those aren't issued here until actual legal retirement age (67) ...

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You can get a Senior MRT or Airport Link ticket once you're 60 in Bangkok - just produce your passport. Unfortunately the BTS won't do the same for foreigners, so it's going to be interesting to see what happens to those of us who have a Senior card on the MRT when we exchange it for a Spider Card which will be working on BTS, BRT and buses (eventually, in the fullness of time, ... ). Something for you to look forward to?

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Originally Posted by Nirish guy

Other plus points are that as you realise how the world "really" works ...

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The more sceptical of us haven't had to wait until we get older for that!

Or just perhaps ....... if you think you’ve always known then maybe you’ve actually had no real idea in the first place ! How’s that for sceptical ! :-)

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Originally Posted by Nirish guy

Or just perhaps ....... if you think you’ve always known then maybe you’ve actually had no real idea in the first place ! How’s that for sceptical ! :-)

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As a total misunderstanding of scepticism it's a world-beater. Sceptics "know" that they know nothing and should doubt everything

Actually I was referring more to my being highly sceptical of people who think they know it all......

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Originally Posted by Nirish guy

Actually I was referring more to my being highly sceptical of people who think they know it all......

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We're all sceptical of arsenal. However, can you be "highly" sceptical? I'd have thought being sceptical is a binary condition (like pregnancy) - either you're sceptical or you're not. Although my scepticism is lifelong as I grow older I find Stoicism more helpful. In that regard Marcus Aurelius is a great model - especially in his attraction to much younger men, sadly suppressed (I've failed in that respect)

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Originally Posted by frequent

We're all sceptical of arsenal. However, can you be "highly" sceptical? I'd have thought being sceptical is a binary condition (like pregnancy) - either you're sceptical or you're not. Although my scepticism is lifelong as I grow older I find Stoicism more helpful. In that regard Marcus Aurelius is a great model - especially in his attraction to much younger men, sadly suppressed (I've failed in that respect)

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This IS disappointing. By now I'd expect Tenille to have chimed in advising that "Although my scepticism is lifelong as I grow older I find Stoicism more helpful" is better expressed as "Although my scepticism is lifelong, as I grow older I find Stoicism more helpful"

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Originally Posted by arsenal

I speak perfect English ...

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Life for me began after 50 yo when I retired at 53 and found young lads in Montreal and Thailand who enjoyed the company of an older man.:heart:
But for sure, after 70 yo, it is all downhill, except for one thing. :yahoo_mini:

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Originally Posted by francois

after 70 yo, it is all downhill, except for one thing. :yahoo_mini:

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?? What's that, looking forward to the special mushed up plates of potatoes, peas and carrots with chicken gravy all on a spoon when the dinner lady comes round with the dinner cart in the care home ?? :-( OMG you can tell I'm taking this 50 thing really well this week can't you !

Ha I "am" joking by the way on all counts, just another day like any other I know - it's every day AFTER that I'm more worried about ! :-)

So, here - ( and this is actually a serious question guys !!) - PENSIONS ! Due to the whole 50 thing I ended up sitting down with a pension advisor who for various reasons ( including tax savings etc) has advised that I need to throw a reasonably large amount of money away now each month or year to both provide a semi decent top up to my existing (crap) pension amount due and I'm literally just in the middle of debating the merits of that in my head.

So, one on hand I said "ok I'm getting older, be responsible and DO that and provide for my future etc" BUT they younger "fuck it, spend it and live now" part of my brain is screaming at me 'WTF are you thinking, you could get hit with a bus or a stroke and die next year, fuck it, keep the cash and either spend it or at least have it on hand and not locked away in a pension".

So, based on the whole asking your elders for their life experience thing - can I ask, if there was a poll ( I've no idea how to create one) what, after based on looking back at your own life now etc, would the general consensus be - be responsible and put it away, or fuck it and keep in to hand as money ready to spend ? I guess the answer may be "somewhere in the middle" but that sort of defeats the point of bothering really as the pension return isn't so worthwhile perhaps ?

Any thoughts or general advice guys based on your own "real" lives and not a pension brochure with pics scaring me about the type of shit hole room I might end up in someday if I've no sensible pension etc ? :)

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Originally Posted by Nirish guy

Any thoughts or general advice guys based on your own "real" lives and not a pension brochure with pics scaring me about the type of shit hole room I might end up in someday if I've no sensible pension etc ? :)

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Surely your situation is a minority one as you’re a business owner (I believe). Don’t your retirement plans include cashing out the capital gains you’ve built up over the years through the sale of your lucrative business(es)? If that is so, how many active posters do you think share your circumstances?

My advice to Nirish is to continue enjoying it while you can.
I was fine until 71 but sadly it's really been downhill since then.

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Originally Posted by frequent

By now I'd expect Tenille to have chimed in advising that "blah blah blah"

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an apposite recent discussion on BBC Radio 4's News Quiz:

"I am sure most people on this panel have been called a Nazi, such is the way of the Internet"

"I have been called a grammar Nazi - does that count?"

"Did you invade Grammar Poland?"

"No, perhaps for having a dangling participle before one made their point - Hitler only had one dangling participle ..."

it is good to see that British humour is still alive and well in the days of Brexit - or as another News Quiz participant called it the approaching B-day when the British are going to get hosed (bidet, get it - it is a radio program!)

What a decrepit bunch! Nancy Pelosi has just become Speaker again; she will turn 79 in a few weeks' time. HM The Queen will turn 93 this year. Her husband, my hero The Egg of Dukenburgh "retired" at 95. Whatever you think of Trump, he became President aged 70. Churchill became wartime Prime Minister aged 66 and went on to be Prime Minister again in his mid-seventies. Sixty is supposedly the new forty

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Originally Posted by frequent

Surely your situation is a minority one as you’re a business owner (I believe). Don’t your retirement plans include cashing out the capital gains you’ve built up over the years through the sale of your lucrative business(es)? If that is so, how many active posters do you think share your circumstances?

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Actually to be honest I've always assumed that the majority of posters here were more well off than not a( not that I class myself as "well off", just more "doing ok but nothing special", i also assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that we also had some other business owners here too. Either way though I actually don't see that that fact one way or the other has much to do with my original question as a person, whether a business owner or not, still needs to think and plan for the likes of retirement and yes whilst I might factor in some possible future sale value of whatever I can sell on etc, everything is relative and anything is only worth what it's worth to the person who's buying it, whenever that may be etc and what I know to be the case today call wise can change quickly change.

Today I have several good hard working, money making staff members, some modern stock and the health and just about enough brain left to run things to do ok but In 5 / 10 / 15 years time things change. Staff get old and market shares may (will) drop along with my own energy levels too and so perhaps the businesses successes and so value too. So yes, whilst of course I'll always hope to be able to "cash in" when the time comes nothing is ever guaranteed in life and so to not also look at having a tax efficient, guaranteed pension pot sitting there waiting for me seems foolish perhaps - or not - depending on ones outlook in life - hence my question to others here.

So my question wasn't actually directed solely at businesses owners but to all of us in general and was actually more a question about "life" in general i.e whats others have experienced and what their thoughts are re if they believed they were better to "save for a rainy day" or "live well now and let the chips fall where they may" in the future.

And thank you to Pennyboy for his response as his was exactly the sort of life experience I value and was hoping to get.

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Originally Posted by Nirish guy

Actually to be honest I've always assumed that the majority of posters here were more well off than not a( not that I class myself as "well off", just more "doing ok but nothing special",

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Certainly "well enough off" to afford regular trips to distant lands to sodomise the natives, but that may be because of an "eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die" mentality. I may be wrong, but I doubt many of us are, for example, lowly paid manual labourers. My scepticism equally leads me to doubt that we are so similar in our circumstances as to offer each other financial advice - although thinking oneself "normal" and therefore assuming every other "normal" person must share our circumstances and outlook is a popular human fallacy

I think you're over thinking it, I agree the whole "normal" thing - total waste of time and I gave up trying to put myself in a box a long time ago. What I DO think is valuable and not to be ignored lightly is life experience and whilst of course one can't take what everyone or anyone else says as "gospel" if you're talking to a crowd of older men in say a pub and each and every one says "you know what I SO regret working so long when I could have retired earlier and now my body is fucked and I can't" to me that's a valid opinion and one that I would certainly note. Not saying I'd rush out and leave my job over night but it would certainly stick in my mind.

I remember when I first started out in business 20 years ago or so and was full of the joys of spring and full of energy and would have worked the clock round, both to get going and as I was enjoying it and on asking an old(er) business man for what I thought was business advice he thought for a moment and side " take holidays". I couldn't quite get my head around his thinking and thought he was just getting old and tired, I NOW understand what he meant and he was of course absolutely right, both as it does help you focus when you return recharged, but also ( and what he meant) was that "life short and dont waste all your time working son". I'm glad to say I did heed his advice at almost every opportunity and have never regretted it.

So, there's just one good example of learning and taking advice from others and this thread was meant in the same vein i.e would older members suggest " hey its great having a big(ger) pension now that I'm older after doing with less whilst younger as now I can relax more" or perhaps "FUCK, I'm crazy, why did I save all that money as I could have been out enjoying myself and now I'm stuck here pissing into a hospital jar every hour" ( ha cause that's OBVIOUSLY how older people spend their days !) - joking !!!

So, THAT was my thinking and the reason for my fairly innocent question, not designed for any deep and meaningful soul searching, more just a light chat and discussion, which as we can all observe the board seems a bit lacking in perhaps of late maybe.

And there’s the difference between us. If I heard that conversation in a pub my reaction would be “losers”. Most people are fools and many of them are damn fools

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Originally Posted by frequent

And there’s the difference between us. ”

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You said it.......

Although I guess if Im being entirely honest depending on the circumstances I might well think something similar - BUT - the intent is right and I'm sure you understand ( rightly) what I'm getting at......

My view - borne out by research - is that far too many people have utterly pointless jobs. I was reading an online article only recently that said that roughly 10% of people say their job has no value and another 20% (I recall) say it has little value. We're stuck in the backwash of the Protestant Work Ethic, where everyone must work because it's "immoral" not to. I'm a great believer in "work smarter not harder" so although I put in a standard working week when I was employed full-time, I only worked about 50% of the time because I'd organised my own processes so they could be the most efficient possible. If anyone gave me a task and asked for a delivery timeframe I always estimated it at two to three times what it would take me, as I knew my colleagues would take that long. Thank god for the Internet

I recall reading a management guru once who advised always to give a convoluted process to the laziest person on the staff, as they would work hard at finding ways to do it in the least time possible ie. efficiently, by simplifying it. Apparently natural processes and structures such as honeycomb are always the simplest because that is the most efficient https://www.jw.org/en/publications/m...omb-structure/

One inevitable conclusion is that many people have pointless jobs because that's all they're capable of

NIrish I suspect it’s a compromise you are looking for. You cannot have it both ways. In simple terms either one leaves early with a smaller pension or one works until one drops for a larger one.

When I reached 50 I was advised that I could take a pension from a previous employer, who I had left 10 years earlier, and had been with since I was 18.Sure enough when I contacted them they said yes, but if you leave it another 10 years you will get double. There was also a lump sum which I wanted.

My policy after that decision was to take anything you are entitled to straight away as you have no idea what may happen tomorrow.

As I continued to work for my new employer, I paid additional voluntary contributions into their pension fund. A Big Mistake as when it came to pay out ( I got made redundant at 54) I got a pittance for those extra payments. I would have been far better off keeping that extra money myself.
It wasn’t all bad though as the redundancy money, the lump sum and the pension were all very acceptable.

So a few things:

I assume you own a house without a mortgage, or can pay it off when you cease work. If so that’s a big plus, no renting. If not then there’s a problem.

Secondly, work out if can you afford to stop working early, if so great. My redundancy at 54 was the best thing ever...

Finally,as you own a business, you will probably be able to meet my final point which is to have either a part time job or a good hobby. I’m fortunate in that I have a part time job for 1 or 2 days a week and can leave it for 3 months in the winter to stay in Thailand. The income from that little job pays for my recreational activities in Pattaya.

If only they knew!!

Thanks Gerefan, a very level headed answer and one that I was sort of coming around to myself actually re the can't have it both ways thing.

Like you I'm being given a similar option re you can NOT put into your pension and stick that cash away in an ISA's etc ( earning fuck all just now) and the smaller pension I do have I can lift at 55 plus lift the ISA's and have plenty of cash - for a while ! BUT the gamble then being that not enough cash to last until you're 70/80 etc etc to live as you might want or pay for a reasonable nursing home etc ( god forbid). So, really is and was a decision of live well at say 55 but perhaps find things tight as getting older, or stay at the level I'm at now for maybe 10 years ( if i can manage that) but then continue to will at that level for the rest of my days and just hope my health holds out. Damned if you do and damned if you dont eh !

So, yeah I'm defintely coming down as somewhere in the middle I think and this year perhaps I think WILL go the full pension contributions route, tax efficiency wise if nothing else as just now in life I dont need to dont much else that I'm not or cant afford already so I guess this year is a no brainer and then just make that same decision this time next year and every year there any after I guess.

And yes thankfully own home and what not sorted and yes some form of running one of my companies on in some small way to "keep my hand in" and get SOME small income still tricking in to offset the beer money going out sounds like a very sensible plan and again if I can manage it is on my "to do" list too ( easier said than done something though). I actually sat down the other night and wrote out a "what it costs me to live" and it was actually quite eye opening / scary just in terms of the daily amount of money you live just to live even in a basic every day king of way. Likewise when I planned and costed out the "keep my hand in" company structure that too was quite eye opening /scary once you added in perhaps two other staff as needed plus SOME rented place, some IT, some accountancy, a van to deliver stuff" etc etc, it all soon added up.

The one thing it did all show me was like it or not I'm no where near to hanging up the boots yet ( much to my disgust) so I'm better knuckle down and get on with it and put another few (10) years of work in yet :-(

Thanks for the solid reply,

nIrish, sorry I didn’t make myself clear one one point. The one about a small job or hobby. The prime reason for having this is to avoid boredom. I know quite a few people who get gored shitless and one has even gone and got a part time job driving a minibus. It’s not for the money ( but obviously that helps too) but for an activity to fill the time. A good hobby would do just as well, but you’d lose out on the dosh!

The other thing that I remembered after posting is the cost of living after retirement. My job was based 133 miles from home so too far to commute daily. I stayed in a B&B during the week at about £35 per night (would be a lot more now) and I was having to pay for a lot of petrol and car maintenance as you can I imagine.

I was doing just under 30,000 miles a year. Since retiring I have never done more than 1700 miles a year...and that’s been for some time now. Hell of a difference. This low mileage also saved me buying another newish car at about £7000 or so. This may not apply to you of course but I’m sure there are other factors where you can save money.

After retirement my income from my pensions was probably only half of my take home when at work...HOWEVER my running costs were vastly reduced as above AND I didn’t have to lift a finger. I was more or less just as well off.

Don’t forget you will pay less tax (reduced income), no National Insurance and no more Pension Contibutions. It all adds up. Then,when you get to the magic age. (whatever that may be for you) you will get the State Pension. More beer money for Pattaya.

Oh and don’t forget the bus pass!

Funny you mention NIC contributions.......as part of my "overview" the other day it was pointed out that there had been no NIC contributions taken from my bank account in a while by D.D. ( as that was something I'd set up on day one of starting my business 20 odd years ago). So I rang HMRC and asked them to check and yes they told me that it seems I'd changed banks 2.5 years ago and the "switch" service hadn't seemed to have worked, so they just "stopped" taking anything ( without telling me !!).

So, says I |ok, fine not wanting to be short of contributions come D Day I'll happily pay back what I owe, I see I have already paid 30 years worth so can you tell me the magic number of years needed to qualify for my state pension please?" And the answer I got was "no, sorry, I won't tell you that number" ! WHAT say's I !! ?? Only to be told - well you don't need to know as we'll just keep taking payments and you can keep paying your NIC until you retire as I mean you DO know Sir that that money goes towards the NHS and for paying fr peoples Benefits !and the like. - FUCK THAT says I just tell me the number of payments needed and you're not getting a penny more !

I think I must have had a labour activist on the other end of the phone who hated their job and also hated self employed people as she was one cheeky bitch and tried to give me a whole lecture about social responsibility - needless to say and after me considering my yearly tax payments already she got a VERY short answer !

Eventually thankfully I was transferred to a different department as "she just couldn't deal with me anymore" and a very nice older man came on the phone, got the point instantly and happily told me I required just another 5 years of contributions to meet their requirements. That bitch would have happily had me paying in to the system for another 10 years - and that being from my very own hard earned Pattaya beer money too had I not bothered to ask them and just so that people could get their "benefits" - as I said fuck THAT !

So, for anyone in the same boat, do be sure to ring the Govt pensions line ( and not HMRC - who blatantly LIED !) and if self employed find your own "number" to ensure that YOUR pattaya beer money isn't being spent supporting some family of 6, neither of whom's parents have ever worked a day in their lives, just so that they can keep themselves up in the manner to which they're accustomed i.e their 40 cigarettes a day (each) plus having the latest X boxes for their kids and to ensure that THEY get their 2 x 2 weeks holidays a year to Play Del ingles as they definitely need it due to their stressful lives as their crisis loan was a day late last week and so she couldn't go to the bingo !

And for those about to tell me off and say I've no heart etc - you're right - fuck 'em I say ! :)

Ha ha ok ( light hearted) rant over :-) OK Frekky - off you go now, capitalism at it's worst etc etc, I could care less ....... :)

There’s enough here to make the silly bugger freak out mate!

Expect the works, orgasms and all. If he can still get a hard on!

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Originally Posted by Nirish guy

So, there's just one good example of learning and taking advice from others and this thread was meant in the same vein i.e would older members suggest " hey its great having a big(ger) pension now that I'm older after doing with less whilst younger as now I can relax more" or perhaps "FUCK, I'm crazy, why did I save all that money as I could have been out enjoying myself and now I'm stuck here pissing into a hospital jar every hour" ( ha cause that's OBVIOUSLY how older people spend their days !) - joking !!!

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Answer is, start saving toward the day you will retire and have plenty of income to last you till the end, which if 50 yo now, you should have 30 more years.
To increase your chances of a long life, switch to a healthy lifestyle when you can, meaning now.:heart:

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Originally Posted by francois

To increase your chances of a long life, switch to a healthy lifestyle when you can, meaning now.:heart:

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Not if you are talking about smoking.
Someone who has smoked until they are 50 has already done serious damage, which will soon present itself.