Re: Emotions between young & old
Quote:
Originally Posted by pattayaboi
Dont upset the old gits they'll get you booted off
Kinda hard not to upset them - everything in the world seems to piss them off - Smoking, Sunee Plaza, Exchange Rates, the Price of Fish ................ad infinitum.
I suppose that's what happens when you get so old you think a bowel movement is a luxury.
As to your question - who cares whether the boy loves, likes, or respects you ? - You're paying for SEX!
(I've been known to tip extra for good acting ability though)
If you want love and affection, buy a Labrador instead. If you want to combine all three and you're a bottom, I'm told a German Shepherd is your best bet.
:cheers:
Re: Emotions between young & old
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottish-guy
If you want love and affection, buy a Labrador instead. If you want to combine all three and you're a bottom, I'm told a German Shepherd is your best bet.
But they're difficult if you're the top ... their backs are so long you can't kiss them at the same time.
Re: Emotions between young & old
Quote:
Originally Posted by padlom
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottish-guy
If you want love and affection, buy a Labrador instead. If you want to combine all three and you're a bottom, I'm told a German Shepherd is your best bet.
But they're difficult if you're the top ... their backs are so long you can't kiss them at the same time.
NOOOOOOOOOOO! Topping a dog? That's just gross!
How do you expect the dog to get that little spray hose at the side of the toilet up it's arse first?
:cheers:
Re: Emotions between young & old
Money has always and anywhere been sexy ... and chash is the perfume of it. ..
Re: Emotions between young & old
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandon
Hi. I'm almost done with my questions & you've been very tolerant, which I appreciate.
Could you help me understand a bit if young Thais feel affection, like, or even love their older farangs, or is it more an arrangement of convenience on both sides?
It's just difficult for me to imagine a 20 year old, gorgeous Thai boy getting excited by a 65 year old white farang.
Thanks for anything on this one.
A Thai 20 years old whit no futher.
A 65 year old farang whit a lot off money.
The Thai feel affection for you sure but in a different way as you feel for him. His deal is you take care him and he gives you the feeling about love and sex. Every Thai who has take care from farang is very very proud and show off to his friends. But the moment you go butterfly he loose his face to all his friends and beware then !!!
In Thailand you can get what you want and where you want as long you folow the Thai ... and you never forget you just farang ! :flower:
Re: Emotions between young & old
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandon
Hi. I'm almost done with my questions & you've been very tolerant, which I appreciate.
Could you help me understand a bit if young Thais feel affection, like, or even love their older farangs, or is it more an arrangement of convenience on both sides?
It's just difficult for me to imagine a 20 year old, gorgeous Thai boy getting excited by a 65 year old white farang.
Thanks for anything on this one.
of course than can get excited ! Always remember the rule I have folowed all my life..a person 10 years younger than you cannot differentiate how old, an older person is !. So when you meet a 20 year old always say you are 30 or 35..works every time.
(The fact they get excited by a 65 year old's wallet is pourely coincidental ! :thumbleft: )
Re: Emotions between young & old
Brandon,
Beyond the obvious fact that money is key bonding agent in farang/Thai boy relationships, and at the risk of being heavily disagreed with, I do believe that Love, meaning True Love, is possible in some cases.
I also believe that; the larger the age gap is тАУ the more unlikely it is for True Love to be cultivated, for the obvious reasons. Unless, in fact, the component of Love is the nature in which a boy loves his father or grandfather.
I am a 52 y/o farang and my little maniac BF just turned 22 last September. We were bonded (married) in a traditional Buddhist style wedding ceremony in November, 2007, and have weathered many storms together, some of which would have sunk the ships of many couples, but have done so because of the love that we have for each other. For years I questioned both of our motivations and intentions, understanding very clearly that he was a money boy тАУ and I was the farang, and the first obvious obstacle was the тАЬdelusionтАЭ factor. Meaning; was I just blind to my own blindness and lost in the fog of my own delusion, or was there something else at work here. It took me (and him) several more years to find the truth.
As far as the money factor goes, my BF Tape, and as much as it pains me to say this openly, was a very high money earner when he was on the working scene. He wasnтАЩt one of those boys who ran around borrowing money from his friends or sharing a loom with a flock of other working boys, conversely, he was loaded, and managed several bank accounts simultaneously in order to manage his finances. One checking account, which was used strictly as a transfer point for sending the majority of his cash earnings home to his parents at frequent intervals, another account, was solely for his own personal savings, and last, but not least, a third account, where he would only store a few hundred baht, which is the only bank book he would show his friends when they attempted to borrow money from him. His plan was brilliant. The only reason IтАЩm sharing this now is to highlight the fact that for him to walk away from the working scene, as he did, meant that he had to walk away from a very lucrative income as well.
The money Tape receives from me now just covers his basic living expenses while IтАЩm back here working in the U.S., and weтАЩre now focusing our money spending on building a new house in the country, versus scattering our money under the neon signs in Pattaya.
ThereтАЩs absolutely no doubt (any more anyway), that he loves me as much as I love him, and the nature of the love we share is as REAL as REAL gets. Not only did he have to sacrifice this lucrative income and the fun at the discos and karaokeтАЩs every night, but I had to make the same sacrifice myselfтАжand let me tell you, that sacrifice didnтАЩt come easy.
I canтАЩt speak for anyone else, as sometimes itтАЩs even difficult speaking for myself, but I do believe that True Love is possible if the couple is right for each other (a big factor here), although it takes TIME to allow the critical element of mutual TRUST to develop, a willingness to CHANGE (that sounds like an AA motto), a deep commitment to seek to understand HIS true nature, and of course, if heтАЩs a working boy, the type of SACRIFICE which I previously described.
I have no idea what the future holds, but, at least for this moment in time, we are happy. He is back living with his family in a farming village in Isaan waiting for my return, and IтАЩm sitting here in Chicago writing this crazy stuff тАУ and counting down the minutes till my return.
The majority of gay relationships I witness in my own country fail miserably, usually within a two year window. I witness the same failure rate in LOS, as we are challenged even more by all those negative factors we discuss repeatedly on this forum, e.g., age gaps, cultural gaps, language gaps, etc., etc., etc. And then, of course, we ask ourselves if True Love is even possible. Well, IтАЩm saying that it is possible, but it wonтАЩt happen over-night and you wonтАЩt be the same person at the end of the journey as you were when it started.
Most people vehemently disagree with me on this topic тАУ which tells me that IтАЩm just that much closer to my target.
Mai open rai
Re: Emotions between young & old
Generalizations are futile on subjects like this one..
Each and every Thai boy is different as is each and every farang.. sure
there are commonalities and similarities but the range runs from one
end to the other..
It is somewhat foolish for farangs to say what Thai boys feel and think as
they will never really know due to cultural and language and generational
differences.
What we can tell is what we feel and what we think is going on.. Time often
proves us wrong but sometimes proves us true. There are many examples
of emotionally satisfying relationships between the Thai boys and their
older farangs and plenty that are simply financial with no emotional part
on either side..
I have noticed that the Thais I have met in villages and elsewhere do not
get emotional with each other even if they haven't seen each other in a long
time. In the West, parents often gush all over their children and carry on but
in Thailand, emotions are held in check, at least in front of farangs.
Holding hands and kissing in public are often frowned upon except in places
like Pattaya, which is an exceptional place and has its own rules of conduct..
So, some boys behave very emotionally but do we really know what is in their heads/hearts and some boys behave cooly and perhaps more sincerely.
Some farangs are like ice with the boys and treat them poorly and some
farang shower the boys with money and affection.. enough said, fred. :cat:
Re: Emotions between young & old
Re: Emotions between young & old
It all boils down to whether there is any chemistry between the boys and the farang. I have many long lasting friendships going back several years. I believe the feeling are very strong but the pressure form the familes to marry and have children is great. The main problem has always been ME. There is just to much temptaion and I am a weak person. A smile and a tight pair of jeans and I'm gone.
Re: Emotions between young & old
Brandon Wrote:
Quote:
've asked other people for recommendations about how large a "nest egg" one should have before the final move. Would you tell me your thoughts on this?[quote:fe16eg97]
[/quote:fe16eg97]
Brandon, I'm the least qualified to answer this, as I only reside in LOS four months out of the year. I have come to realize that there are many different options available to farangs who retire here, inlcuding the key factor of...place of residence.
I recently posted a topic on "Country Living" that you may, or may not be interested in reading. It compares the cost of living in rural LOS to the big cities.
Most expats would tell you that you need a minimum of 40,000 baht/month to live fairly comfortably in LOS, although I think this would result in a pretty tight and well controlled budget, depending of course on your particular lifestyle.
Regarding your comments on "monogamy," I think it would be a lot to expect for a relationshiop between a 65 y/o farang and a 20 y/o Thai boy to be monogamous (on the boys part). I'm finding this difficult in my relationship as well, even with a smaller age gap between Tape and I. I believe the thing that will determine if monogamy is even possible, goes right back to that Love thing again. If the role of the farang in a relationship is that of strickly a financial sponsor, and the farang is 45 years older than the boy, than the nature of the Love in the relationship would probably be simialr to the love shared between a boy and his father, similar to my comments earlier.
If the relationship involves some degree of mutual sexual satisfaction between the two parties, and the age gap may even be buffered more if the farang is attractive and in good physical condition, I think it is possible to have a monogomous relationship. Of course, having said that, there are a myriad of variables which would come into play, including the actual sex drive of both parties.
Cat made an interesting comment regarding the fact that Thais generally don't display emotion the same way us Westerners do, and I agree wholeheartedly with his read on this. I remember watching Tape once as his best friend from childhood was leaving the village for his two year term in the army. His "goodbyes" were as if the boy was going away for a weekend get-away. No emotion whatsoever.
I've witnessed these types of interactions numerous times and always found them puzzling. I believe that Thais also treat there sexual flings much in the same manner. Where, we in the West would typicallly be angry and heart broken if our mate had sex with another person, the Thais seem to react to this as something much more trivial. If what I'm saying is true, then that would also indicate that the actual nature of "sex" and "love", and the emotions that accompany them, are also different within the Thai culture. Love and Sex just don't seem to parellel with each other the same as in our two vastly different cultures.
Re: Emotions between young & old
Brandon Wrote:
Quote:
So generally, if there's at least a friendship between the young Thai and old Farang, the Thai can be proud of his Farang and even introduce him to his friends? But if the Farang goes butterfly, the Thai loses face. But if the Thai goes butterfly I'm assumming he doesn't lose face? And if the Farang goes butterfly without the Thai knowing (although he may find out later), does he still lose face?[quote:awu6bbc7]
[/quote:awu6bbc7]
If a tree falls in the woods, and there's nobody around, does it make a sound?...LOL
A Thai working boy doesn't really lose face in the normal scheme of things when dealing with multiple farang customers, unless he has a farang who offs him on a regular basis, who then dumps him for another pair of jeans. But this is only what I would categorize as Level 2 Face Loss, which usually results in a little embarrassment which is perectly understandable, in any culture. Level 1 Face Loss, is a different story. That's where a farang has a steady BF on or off the working scene, where there's a serious and comitted relationship going on. If the farang butterflys in this scenerio, especially behind the boys back, it results in major face loss. I have first-hand experience in this and have learned my lessons the hard way.
Regarding my earlier remarks related to Thai boys not showing too much emotion, my BF doesn't subscribe to that mannerism at all times. When he found out that I offed one of his friends from a gogo bar two holidays back, it nearly cost me my right eye. No sooner than I opened the door to the condo, he swirled aorund from his standing position in front of the stove in the kitchen and threw a half-cooked pork chop line-drive which missed my eye right eye by a hair. I don't know about him losing face - but I almost lost mine.
You had to see him. His makeup (he's a ladyboy) was smeared all over his face, apparently the result of him crying earlier during that evening, his hair, which he had just dyed a mixture of yellow and orange shades, was standing straight up like a deranged chicken that just hatched out of an egg, and he was screaming so histarically that he had split shooting out of his mouth. I was scared shitless. To this day, I don't know if the thrust of his anger was due to me cheating on him, or the fact that he lost face with his friends big time. In either case, I slept with one eye open for a while and haven't made the same mistake since.
Re: Emotions between young & old
In most of Asia, Japan being the most obvious exception, the family is extended. If you join an Asian family and you are the highest or wealthiest participant you can expect to be called on as part of the insurance, progress funding system.
Never, dirty your own doorstep as loss of face will definitely ensue, but feel free to dabble out of sight - your partner will.
Re: Emotions between young & old
Quote:
Originally Posted by catawampuscat
Holding hands and kissing in public are often frowned upon except in places like Pattaya, which is an exceptional place and has its own rules of conduct..
Well said Cat, Pattaya is a wonderful place. Long may it live.
Re: Emotions between young & old
funny, well it not that funny anymore, because he is dead, well I had a blue eye because I was not where he not could find me. Last time with my lover I was nocked on my head, because I was in the smoking in the smoking area and he was sick, I did not know that. After 3 days with 39,5 lsius I took him to the clinic. Is it love or just to take care of eactother. when I looked into hiseyes --i felt it was love....please take care of me. And I did, I am happy the way I reacted. ┬иGivi me so uch back. everyday calling me or sms me. Well maybe he was a moneyboy but he shows me something different,
To much G/T ;-) :drunken:
Re: Emotions between young & old
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandon
" ... Brandon,
I didn't know you could have this kind of ceremony in Thailand and it's good to know ... "
Well, don't wet your pants expecting to have discovered a new nirvana of gay liberation. It ain't that way at all.
The ceremony Dodger describes is not a legally or institutionally binding affair, but as informal as one can get, with iconography mixed in from Buddhism, animism, favourite beliefs, good luck charms in abundance, lots of Thai whiskey for the main event. i.e. The Party, etc etc. In upcountry Thailand "marriage" is not necessarily as westerners would describe it, and couples move around, part ways, come back, find other 'wives' (and husbands) while still retaining the first, 'divorce' simply by leaving ... and often moving into new digs just 2 doors down. Just because it is two guys (and this will certainly NOT be the norm in the viallage) changes nothing, as the monks get their take same same.
None of this is to denigrate the sincerity of Dodgers experience. The 'marriage' thing is simply not the same as in the west, unless you're watching a Thai soap on Channel 3.
Cheers ...
Re: Emotions between young & old
Smiles Wrote:
Quote:
The ceremony Dodger describes is not a legally or institutionally binding affair, but as informal as one can get, with iconography mixed in from Buddhism, animism, favourite beliefs, good luck charms in abundance, lots of Thai whiskey for the main event. i.e. The Party, etc etc[quote:2rmpqp03]
[/quote:2rmpqp03]
Smiles, your description of Thai weddings in the upcountry is accurate, although the fact that these ceremonies include things like iconography, animism, favorite beliefs, good luck charms and lots of whiskey, doesn't make them any different from the wedding ceremonies I've attended in my own country.
For example; My brother wed in a formal Catholic ceremony in a church adorned with gothic looking paintings and statues from another epoc, people dressed in long red robes holding candles and chanting verses from a book written in another language (which nobody understood), all led by this guy wearing a very angelic looking outfit, complete with a tall pointed hat that made him look like an alien leader from a Star Wars episode. After the ceremony, everybody tossed raw rice on the heads of the married couple as they proceded to the party where all the whiskey was waiting. Two years later the couple parted ways, which, unfortunately, is not considered all that unusual in our highly advanced western cultures.
Things like iconography, animism, favorite beliefs and good luck charms, form the basis in which all formal marriage ceremonies are performed...in all countries...all cultures...and all religions.
Within the Thai/Buddhist culture, these wedding ceremonies, strange as they appear through western eyes, are taken very seriously by all who attend, regardless if the couple bonding is str8 or gay. The only real difference being, there are no provisions in Thai law for binding gay marriages legally.
mai pen rai
Re: Emotions between young & old
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandon
One more thing on the gay "registered domestic partners" -- we are required to file a joint tax return in California, and can file either way to the feds.
Please God, let's not start another 11 pages... but the California Franchise Tax Board states:
"California enacted SB 1827 as law, beginning January 1, 2007, which requires registered domestic partners to use the same filing status as married couples."
HOWEVER, the Federal government of the United States does not recognize domestic partners as any more legally bound for the purpose of joint returns than they do same sex marriages, whether recognized by the couple's home state or not.
So, no joint federal returns for domestic partners or same sex couples, even if they were married in states (such as Conneticut or Massachusetts) which recognize the marriage as legal on a state level.
Re: Emotions between young & old
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandon
One more thing on the gay "registered domestic partners" -- we are required to file a joint tax return in California, and can file either way to the feds.
You're welcome.
Makes one wonder if you've also been mistaken about a few other things you've stated as fact?
Just razzing you. :cheers:
Re: Emotions between young & old
i agree with dodger. i think smiles cheapens the exoperience of lanna weddings up north. ive been to three and all of them were just as wonderful as any i went to at home. remember smiles, its not the ceremony thaat makes the wedding but the people involved. your jaded veiws sound like echoes of regret from an injured old man.
Re: Emotions between young & old
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alf
i agree with dodger. i think smiles cheapens the exoperience of lanna weddings up north. ive been to three and all of them were just as wonderful as any i went to at home. remember smiles, its not the ceremony thaat makes the wedding but the people involved. your jaded veiws sound like echoes of regret from an injured old man.
Aren't you missing Smiles's point? All he's saying is that the ceremony no matter how wonderful has absolutely no legal validity it's just another excuse for a party.
Re: Emotions between young & old
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curious
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alf
i agree with dodger. i think smiles cheapens the exoperience of lanna weddings up north. ive been to three and all of them were just as wonderful as any i went to at home. remember smiles, its not the ceremony thaat makes the wedding but the people involved. your jaded veiws sound like echoes of regret from an injured old man.
Aren't you missing Smiles's point? All he's saying is that the ceremony no matter how wonderful has absolutely no legal validity it's just another excuse for a party.
Never underestimate Alf's uncanny ability to always miss the point.
Where he got the schmaltzy "echoes of regret" cliche is beyond me. An echo of the insular World O' PattayaPassion I would guess.
Cheers ...
Re: Emotions between young & old
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curious
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alf
i agree with dodger. i think smiles cheapens the exoperience of lanna weddings up north. ive been to three and all of them were just as wonderful as any i went to at home. remember smiles, its not the ceremony thaat makes the wedding but the people involved. your jaded veiws sound like echoes of regret from an injured old man.
Aren't you missing Smiles's point? All he's saying is that the ceremony no matter how wonderful has absolutely no legal validity it's just another excuse for a party.
Never underestimate Alf's uncanny ability to
always miss the point.
Where he got the schmaltzy
"echoes of regret" cliche is beyond me. An echo of the insular World O' PattayaPassion I would guess.
Cheers ...
typical mean spireted comments from the smiles guy again. no surprise there.
