Government Conflict- go away...

After reading the Bangkok Post and Nation, it looks like both ends of the conflict (PAD and government supporters) are becoming more firm in a "stand off". Seriously, this is not good for Thailand, or for us who work or are retired in LOS. Even if there was a new election, what would it achieve...would it achieve "peace" between the two groups? Can any readers on this forum think how this turmoil will end once and for all?

(And please, I dont' want to read comments from slimeballs how lack of tourists will make the "boys" cheaper)

"How do you know that the sky is falling, Chicken Little?" asked Henny Penny.
"I saw it with my eyes, I heard it with my ears, and a bit of it fell on my head," said Chicken Little.
http://rickwalton.com/funstuff/skyfall.htm

If real democracy has to prevail, the constitution should have the necessary safeguards to protect a government duley elected by the will of the people and allow it to run it's full term, unless the government violates the rules stipulated in the constitution that provides for the removal of the government through constitutional and democratic means. The consitution should provide the necessary safeguards to protect the will of the people and tools to effectively deal with elements, group and/or groups of people who can muster the support or hire few thousands of people to blockade the parliment building, airports, ports and vital institutions providing essentail services to the ordinary masses; and thus disrupt the duly elected government from governing the country. There should be provisions in the constitution to effectively deal with the few thousands of hired thugs from holding the rest of the nation (people) 61 Million citizens to ransom.

Why a beautiful country, with such a kind and caring people lack the ability to preserve and relish the fruits of democarcy and the peaceful exsistance as nation that it deserves to be seen and respected in the international arena. Does it lack the political will? or the people lack the power to install the real leaders to lead them to prosperity? Effective opposition is vital in an effective democratic enviornment. The opposition is equally responsible for upholding the democratic values and principles in a democratic parlimentary system. In a democratic parlimentary system the opposition is a vital institution. The leader of the opposition is eqally respected by the system because it is the expectation of the people that postition will uphold the democratic values and play it's role in protecting and safeguarding the democratic rights of the people, the institutions and governance of the nation. The opposition is also held equally responsible for the abuse of its powers and postion as the government when it acts against the will of the people.

Should the people not derserve the right to enjoy the fruits of democarcy after they have elected a government and given them a mandate to govern them for a certain period. Shouldn't the opposition respect the will of the people

Why not we transfer Obama after November to Thailand to preach the "Change", as he will be unemployed after November 4th?

... you can have as much "democracy" as you like. However the institutions of government that a democracy demands - the independence of the Executive, Legislature and Judiciary from each other, respect for the rule of law and active sanctions against those who subvert it, a bureaucracy that is properly paid to do their job so that they don't engage in rent-seeking (economic term, look it up) and lapse into corruption - Thailand has none of those things in any robust and systemic way, and the example from the very top (you know who I mean) simply mitigates against all of them. Take that along with the feudal nature of Thai social relationships, and absolutely no sense of "we're all in this together" and the notion of Thai democracy has a very, very long way to go

And before all those people rush in and start posting their comi-tragic examples of one-off scenarios that they believe "disprove" what I'm saying, they might think long and hard what the words "robust" and "systemic" mean!

Homintern ........ With your permission let me another word "separation of powers" and what does that mean in a real democarcy

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Originally Posted by stevekoolguy

Homintern ........ With your permission let me another word "separation of powers" and what does that mean in a real democarcy

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We had a poster once who asserted that the "separation of powers" applied only in the US, until everyone pointed what a total ignoramus that person was ... miraculously a few weeks later the phrase "separation of powers" kept popping up in that person's posts in the context of every other democracy, as if it were something known all along! That poster was, of course, our beloved Tourette who, sad to say, seems to have given up posting recently - clearly the quest for the Nobel Prize has gained the better of poor Aunty. But, as I'm sure you know, "separation of powers" is what I'm talking about when I mention the Executive, Legislature and Judiciary

In my private life I'm much more interested in the separation of cheeks, and after lunch I have a couple of boys coming around to help me pursue my hobby

I talked to a friend last day about the siiuation, although not an oracle he has lived in Thaliand for 5 years, and are everyday dealing with the system. He said something like this: money┬┤, money is how it works, forget the word democracy, at least in the european terms. the country is ruled as a banana republic. Remember though, the so called democracy and their institutions are very young, how can you compare it with nations who had at least 100 years to develop it.? Democracy is the least bad kind of government, but also the most difficult. Sorry to say it, being the devil, but not all countries are ready for democrasy? The question is are our beloved Thailand ready? Real democrasy is only working, when the peolpe are educated AND have money. Are Russia a democracy, even if they say so, in my terms it is not, because after being elected Putin can do whatever he wants and owe all the press and TV.stations. Just my 10 cents into the discussion.

Thailand to my knowledge has a very rich culture, fairly educated population, has strong economy with well developed infrastructure to support the development programs, aspiring to be one of the leading economics in the region, strong family values and respected society. The youth are well advanced in science and technology field and very talented in arts, music, sports, education and keeping in par with their counter-parts in the western world. The younger generation believes in higher education and government programs support their aspirations with more technical colleges, universities (both governement and private), government funded soft student loans, scholarships to study both in Thailand and aborad. The markets are driven by market forces and the buying power of the younger generation. Non-aligned foreign policy, peaceful co-existence with other countries, respect for human rights. Above all well developed tourist industry and export oriented industrilization. The younger generation is moving away from the farming family unit to become more independant and more focus on educating themselves.

All these good things in a nation are indicators, that the democracy exist and has worked well for the country. All what it requires is to strengthen the democartic norms and allow the fruits of the development to follow into the all segment of the society.

These are just the growing pains associated with democracy. The pain forces people, the electorate, to think. Democracy is not even the ultimate destination. Democracy is weak without an independent judiciary, and an independent, and accountable, national administration. Thailand is a long way off that.

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Originally Posted by Brad the Impala

This are just the growing pains associated with democracy. The pain forces people, the electorate, to think. Democracy is not even the ultimate destination. Democracy is weak without an independent judiciary, and an independent, and accountable, national administration. Thailand is a long way off that.

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I think recent events have more than proved that Thailand's judiciary is not controlled by the government.

Recent judicial rulings are certainly an encouraging indication of progress, although the judges may have been under coercion from forces other than the government.

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Originally Posted by Brad the Impala

These are just the growing pains associated with democracy. The pain forces people, the electorate, to think. Democracy is not even the ultimate destination. Democracy is weak without an independent judiciary, and an independent, and accountable, national administration. Thailand is a long way off that.

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So is fucking Amerika Bozo!

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Originally Posted by Dick Hunter

So is fucking Amerika Bozo!

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Another deep thinker from Pattaya. Has Aunty adopted a new moniker?

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Originally Posted by Brad the Impala

Recent judicial rulings are certainly an encouraging indication of progress, although the judges may have been under coercion from forces other than the government.

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A pretty strong statement. One for which you have proof, I assume?

[quote=Chao Na]

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Originally Posted by "Brad the Impala":3euu4ckx

Recent judicial rulings are certainly an encouraging indication of progress, although the judges may have been under coercion from forces other than the government.

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A pretty strong statement. One for which you have proof, I assume?[/quote:3euu4ckx]

You stupid boy! Such knee jerk reactions. If documented proof were available I would have written "the judges were under coercion, instead of "may have been under coercion". The word "may" notes that the following is not fact, in case you still don't get it.

Still waiting for your answer as to whether you have any personal experience of life in an arab country on which to base your opinion that "arabs are subhuman".

Would you like a list of the Arab countries I have visited? Would that satisfy you?

How many times can you say the same thing. Someone has been convicted of a crime yet they just are allowed to flee and the 'elected' government isn't going to honor the ruling. TXRXw 'em OXX.

..as usual we're on the second page of the forum and we're off the subject. Thanks to all of you who previously shared your wisdom to my concern.

When Mark Faber was recently asked about the current political situation his response was that it is very confusing. He mentioned that the government appears to be more democratic than opposion despite the name (he apparently refered to PAD). He also said that there will be some degree of stability while the King is alive but when he passess all bets are off. That is what a wise man thinks. What Thailand needs is internal conditions for further economic growth which in turn create conditions for raising living standards and elimination of poverty. Democracy is hardly a factror here. Think of democratic Gaza, democratic Iraq or what would it be a democratic Saudi Arabia. Think, on the other hand, of nondemocratic Singapore. Thaksin's regime was the best arrangement to provide such a growth and alleviate social tensions by eliminating poverty (where his government made a historic progress). The current political system in Thailand became a real obstacle for further progress in the country. Its change, however, most probably will not be peaceful. I totally disagree with assessment of courts by Chao Na. Politization of courts is extremely dangerous. Think, e.g. about court interference to the conflict around Cambodian temple: it could easily lead to the war and was totally unjustified.

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Originally Posted by Chao Na

Would you like a list of the Arab countries I have visited? Would that satisfy you?

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Well that would give an indication of what experience has coloured/created your feeling of racial superiority. Any further information would help members to understand how you can hold such an extremist view.

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Originally Posted by ikarus

I totally disagree with assessment of courts by Chao Na. Politization of courts is extremely dangerous. Think, e.g. about court interference to the conflict around Cambodian temple: it could easily lead to the war and was totally unjustified.

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It's rather early days to start popping the champagne corks because the Court system has, this year for the very first time, shown some back-bone. Let's welcome this change, but reserve judgement until the Courts build up a track record of independent decisions before we throw a party. As the old saying goes "One swallow doesn't make a Spring", or in the context of Soi Prostitute, "one swallow doesn't make a boyfriend" (not an original thought by me; someone else said it first many posts ago but I can't remember who)

Lets hope the courts deal with the PAD leaders as they should too.

[quote=Brad the Impala]

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Originally Posted by "Chao Na":2vsr5hai

Would you like a list of the Arab countries I have visited? Would that satisfy you?

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Well that would give an indication of what experience has coloured/created your feeling of racial superiority. Any further information would help members to understand how you can hold such an extremist view.[/quote:2vsr5hai]

Morocco, Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Oman, UAE, Bahrain.

they didn't want him there either.
kept making up new names