Not being a fan of the complex and seeing little hope for Boystown can the end of the ban bring life to Sunee?
https://youtu.be/lBtpK2aH-9s
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Not being a fan of the complex and seeing little hope for Boystown can the end of the ban bring life to Sunee?
https://youtu.be/lBtpK2aH-9s
I wouldn't know how. Most of us have seen the decline over the years and with Double-shot closed, it is more than another nail in the coffin. Winner and Nice Boys are different from anything you could find in Boystown but can they survive so isolated?
The best thing for the gogo scene in Pattaya would be if all bars move to the same area, wherever that may be.
Sunee needs plenty of boys at attention and at various stages of erection in order to draw the teetotalers as well as the drunkards into the bars...
All a fire needs is a single burning ember to get it started, and I believe there are several burning embers in Sunee now.
Most of the expats and visitors that I know (including myself) prefer the atmosphere that Sunee provides over The Complex and are just waiting for the lights to go on.
Don't get me wrong...I'm grateful that The Complex has made the investment that it has and is positioned so well, but, as far as I'm concerned, NOTHING could ever take the place of Sunee.
Can booze bring it back? It can certainly get those embers glowing.
I would like to think there will be more “embers” but look at the facts: Sunee was successful because of it’s many sleazy GoGo bars which brought many punters not all geriatrics which is the customer base in the Complex, without a good reason for foreigners of a broad age group to come just reopening a few bars will hardly make the “embers glow”.
Swings and roundabouts. Not so long ago Jomtien was a graveyard with few bars lasting more than a year and Sunee bounced like The Village People on crack cocaine. A couple more go go bars and the magic could return. A free hourly shuttle between the two would benefit the bars in both areas.
An interesting idea. Didn't Kevin hope to operate one when he opened Birds' Nest after Throb closed? It wouldn't have worked when we were last there (two years ago)....the Jomtien- Pattaya journey was arduous owing to the roadworks.
The entire Sunee area- not just "our" part- declined when the shisha bars were closed , making the walk there through darkened and largely empty streets depressing. And unlike JC, it never had decent hotels. BT at its best was lively throughout the day, with guests at the three main hotels enjoying drinks on the terraces.
Just buy a coke,,,you don't need a damn beer to enjoy everything..
Aw c'mon, Manforallseasons, everyone knows things go better with Coke. ;)
Attachment 11929
Surely you remember...
Was never a supporter of Sunee,although went down there a few times years ago.I wish it well for the future.
The Sunee Swan Song
I remember sitting in a beer bar across from Kaos listening to a farang ranting on-and-on about how “Sunee was on its last legs”…”and how the fat lady had taken the stage and the Sunee Swan Song was now playing”. The bar I was sitting in was Yaya’s shortly after Barry and Yaya hung their sign somewhere around 2008. Here we are nearly 14 years later and I still hear the same remarks.
Either Sunee has more legs than anyone cared to count back then, or the Fat Lady is singing a song that belongs in the Guinness Book of World Records as being the longest song ever played, because, as dark and dismal as Sunee is right now, it still refuses to drop its curtain. Dark and dismal, yes. Very few bars left standing, yes. But still alive.
It wasn’t the Arabs with their shisha’s that started the decay in Sunee, it was The Market. Fewer and fewer gay tourists were coming to Thailand due to a whole host of reasons, and the escalating police raids in Sunee didn’t help matters either. Sunee took another major hit in 2010 when a major campaign against drugs was launched by a newly assigned police commissioner in Bangkok which landed many of the working boys in Sunee (and other places) in prison. The BIB who controlled the operations in Sunee during that period were relocated to other posts – and the street mafia was forced to go farther underground. This is what knocked the wind out of Sunee (and Boyztown and JC as well).
The bars who survived this period (few as there are right now) could reopen and make a go of it, but their future is in the hands of Madam Sunee. She has to be as old as Moses right now and if she sells the property, or leaves it to her relatives who want to sell it, then Sunee Plaza will probably end up being demolished. That’s when we’ll see the last leg topple. That’s when the fat lady will end her song. But right now, there’s no sign of any of that happening.
Sunee will never return to its Glory Days, so those of us who were fortunate enough to have experienced that amazing and surrealistic period in time, should consider ourselves fortunate. But as long as there are survivors in Sunee like Mama Lek, Green Chairs owner, Beer and Mak at Nice Boys, Winner Gogo, and a few others, who are willing to give it another go and refuse to throw in the towel – I’m right there with them.
Sunee needs our support, the same way the bars in Jomtien Complex need our support, and the only way we can do that is by keeping hope alive (the same way they are)…visiting these bars the minute they open (some already are)…encourage others to do the same…be generous in your spending when you do go…and speak in a positive manner about the bar owners plight to survive.
As a side note: I have frequent conversations with the owner of Green Chairs Bar. She is a very street-wise elderly Thai woman who has been operating her bar longer than any other business in Sunee. I remember shooting snooker with her grandson when he had to stand on a wooden box to be able to see the top of the snooker table – who now tends bar for her. This was back in the days when Sportsman’s Bar and Amigo Pub were her neighbors.
She probably knows more about the history and inner workings of Sunee than even Madam Sunee herself. She looked at me…squinted her eyes in the early morning sun,…smiled…and said in a very calm voice, that Sunee will survive - with several host bars and a few gogo bars (Winner, Nice Boys) reopening when the green light is given. She went on to say that her close friend Mama Lek (One Bar) plans to reopen as well. She knows that Sunee will never be anywhere near as busy as it was in its hay day, but busy enough to keep a few beer bars and gogo bars afloat which works for her. It works for me too.
So MFAS, to answer your original question: Can Booze bring Back Sunee?
The answer is No.
What will bring back Sunee are people who think and speak in a positive manner about the plight of the surviving bar owners, who refuse to give up hope.
Dodger, agree with most of your post however, just speaking positive of the few remaining bar owners won’t bring customers back as they still need a reason to return. BTW other than Pai, Lek and the Danish guy who owns Winner who else is left?
The initial REASON has to be that they want the bars and the scene to survive. This process has to start with customers being of a mind-set to want to GIVE BACK (help rebuild) - not solely focused on what's in it for them.
I heard about one farang complaining about there not being enough boys around to his liking at a bar in Jomtien Complex last night. This is a perfect example of a person with the wrong mind-set. Here we are, at what we hope is the tail-end of a global pandemic that tossed Thailand in a tailspin resulting in businesses going broke, people standing in food lines, and an escalation in suicides, and all this one self-centered idiot thought about last night was how well he was being serviced/satisfied. Not a single hint of gratitude for the fact that the bar was even able to reopen, with at least a few boys on staff. His only thoughts were about HIMSELF.
If this is the way the majority of punters think and react to these bar openings - the bars won't be staying open very long.
This is a time when Supporters are needed...not whiners and complainers.
I also noticed fewer boys than expected in Jomtien on Sunday. That's not something I complain about, since there were enough boys to brighten up the experience.
Also, the pandemic has accelerated the growth of e-commerce and that seems to include the prostitution sector. Particularly when they have been forced to trade online for months. The lad I met on Monday knew I was in Jomtien the previous evening, just from the distance reading on Grindr. There is no need for him to actually go to the bars.
To reverse that situation, I guess it needs farang to actually save their boy hunting for the bars. That's not going to happen overnight, if at all.
The quickest and easiest way to get Sunee up and running again would be for the present bar owners to get together and advertise on gay Chinese websites.
There are more than enough gay Chinese guys out there but they won't come if they don't know a place such as Sunee actually exists.
I'm sure there is nothing like it in China.
The Chinese aren't coming back for at least two years and maybe not ever in such large numbers. The turtle is retreating back into his shell.
Well, I wasn't suggesting that the Chinese would be arriving in Pattaya anytime soon, given the pandemic is still raging in China and many other countries.
I was actually looking a bit forward to the time when travel was getting back to normal and tourists from all over the world would be on the move again. Advertising their product would give Sunee the kick-start it will need when that happens.
And what I wonder will bring them back? A couple of bars reopening? No way.
Sunee needs to become a destination in itself once again, one where there is a specific reason to visit. What made Sunee a destination were partly the gogos being a lot raunchier than Boyztown and a cluster of bars with fairly regular customers and cute waiters. Roaming though the Plaza and having a drink was actually interesting, as much for the people/boy watching as for the drinking and ogling. I reckon it will take the addition of at least half a dozen venues to open up again, including a couple more gogos, before it has a chance of attracting enough customers to make it a destination again. But that becomes a chicken and egg situation.
I would have thought that anyone who had been reading any of the gay, or even straight, Thailand forums over the past few years couldn't have failed to notice that even pre-COVID the sexpats/sex tourists attracted to places like Sunee, and even Walking Street and the Pattaya of old generally, were a dying breed - literally - so I think any prospective Sunee bar owners shouldn't count their chickens before they hatch and certainly shouldn't put all their eggs in a Sunee basket
Sunee will never return to being the "Destination" you describe, because the Market's simply not there anymore. That points already been made.
If a couple of the bars in Sunee you mentioned happen to include the only Boy Gogo Bars in Pattaya, they'll probably get all the customers they need to stay afloat. They did before the pandemic - and there's no reason to think they won't after. Some of the punters I know (expats and tourists) would drag themselves through the mud for the opportunity to experience a night at the gogo again.
If you doubt that the bars reopening in Sunee will bring the customers back, which you apparently do, just look at what's going on in Jomtien Complex right now,
The gay bars in Pattaya, or that fact Thailand, won't be servicing masses of people like they did in days-gone-by - they'll be serving the local gay expat community and a moderate flow of tourists. One would have to think the bar owners already know this. I don't think anyone's caught in the delusion that any of these places are going to be packed to the brim every night, but for some (me included), that's OK.
All this chat about Sunee reminds me of the good old days!
Some of my old pics from 2013
While I have my old pics up and running....New Year Eve 2010.
I hope you don’t mind me including your modelling portrait at the end Stevie.
And what makes Jomtien Complex so special that it is actually attracting customers? Because it is a destination with a cluster of bars and lots of boys around. Sunee has been in its death throes for years. Even a handful of bars is not going to ensure its resurrection.
Re Chinese tourists, did anyone ever notice more than an occasional Chinese wandering around Sunee Plaza? I doubt it. Most Chinese gays don't join the ghastly tour groups. They visit as individuals and most are not into gogo bars and beer bars. Their interests are much more into massage spas, gay discos and sometimes gay saunas - and shopping. I know of Chinese gays who travel to places like Singapore and Hong Kong where picking up the latest Rolex or Louis Vuitton bags are just as important as nighttime activities.
That's precisely why an advertising blitz in China as suggested by one poster to attract them to Sunee can never work in my view. The solo/small Chinese gay groups will always gravitate to Bangkok.
I made that suggestion as I think there are plenty of Chinese guys who would love some hands-on action à la Nice Boys. I understand it may not appeal to all, just as lots of farang are not particularly interested in getting down and dirty.
But they should at least know such a place exists. Given the sheer number of Chinese, a very small percentage who wished for a bit of sleaze would still constitute a large number of individuals. And it's individuals I'm talking about herr, not tour groups.
A few years ago a ran into 2 Japanese guys who had stumbled into Sunee, although not quite by accident. Someone over in Boyztown had sent them off in the general direction. They were speechless at what was available. I sent them off to Goodboys. I can just imagine their reaction as the guys pulled out their huge Isaan cocks and lined up for a chuck-wow.
There is definitely a market for the sleazy Asian tourist in Pattaya. And those who love Louis Vuitton can do their shopping before they fly out of Bangkok.
I know one gay Chinese guy, a former student in the UK. Anyhow, we met up again in SE Asia and he just assumed there would be full on nudity in the bars. I had to reign in his expectations.
Anyhow, for now, the great dictator in Beijing is discouraging his citizens from travelling, with heavy restrictions. Therefore, their preferences have very little immediate impact in Thailand.
As I sat consuming my booze in Sunee, at one of the not open bars, I was just remembering the good old days. For instance, walking into Eros and having a naked lad bouncing up and down on my lap within about a minute. It's boys and bars that would bring back Sunnee, specifically more risque gogo bars. Booze is less of a factor, as that can be had anywhere, in normal times.
I wonder how many times this conversation has been played out throughout history.
The Colosseum as a couple of gladiators do combat with a toothless old lion.
'Of course in the past there were a hundred gladiators and a hundred lions. That's Why I moved here.'
Machu Picchu as a geriatric granny us offered up for sacrifice.
'Back in the day they'd sacrifice whole villages to the gods. Now look, a shadow of its former self.'
Nantucket as a whaling ship comes in with a couple of belugas and a baby wright.
'When I started the ship's had to queue up for days to land. Now it's all done.'
I suspect the decline of Sunee was due to a number of factors:
1 Firstly, exchange rate movements eliminated some of the customers.
2 Laws and continual police raids seem to have removed some of the more raunchy bars. (I support any action enforcing age limits, but not restrictions on what consenting adults get up to in the bars).
3 Phones emerged as an alternative hook up mechanism. Phones are more efficient and I"m quite pleased with the results from the apps. However, the process of finding a boy is less fun.
I suspect the boys prefer the apps too. Instead of spending hours on stage in underwear, they just fix up a Grindr profile and then wait for customers. When they get an approach, they can decide whether or not to accept and don't need to argue over the matter with a mamasan.
4 Then along came COVID and more critically, government restrictions.
Currently none of these reasons for decline are reversed.
Vnman writes; "It is funny that you think that 2013 were the "good old days." For me, it would be 2004/5 but I am sure that for many others Sunee was already in decline back then."
Older hands will recall that Sunee barely existed as a gay area before 1997....my first knowledge of it was from a flier delivered that year to the beached whales on Jomtien Beach which described it as "the new Boyztown.". And its decline after 2005, the reasons for which have already been mentioned, shows that it had a very short shelf-life.
Which is not to say that it is a loss; it offered something different not only to Pattaya but to Bangkok, Phuket and Chiang Mai.