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You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?
It’s certainly a paradise for retirees in Pattaya who desire an unending supply of cheap male prostitutes. But according to Thailand’s Constitutional Court this week, same-sex activity is against the natural order.
Thailand’s Constitutional Court yesterday conceded that its objections to same-sex marriage are ideological rather than legal in a statement declaring it “against the natural order.”
The comments, included in the court’s full 12-page ruling against a challenge to the charter’s prohibition of same-sex marriage, angered proponents and supporters of marriage equality and has sent #ConstitutionalCourtisSexist trending atop Thai Twitter since last night.
“The Constitutional Court had many ways to write its ruling on marriage equality that recognized people’s hearts and exercised goodwill. But from the way it was written, it obviously shows that they had no heart nor empathy of any kind,” wrote writer and illustrator Teepagorn “Champ” Wuttipitayamongkol. “They see that all people are just inferior subjects to them.” Gender rights activist Nada Chaiyait’s post on Facebook was more succinct: “This country is not haven but hell for LGBTIQNAs+”
Portions of the ruling reflected the court’s culturally conservative roots, stating that because marriage is only for reproduction, LGBTQ relationships are unnatural because they cannot produce children. “Marriage equality would not only overturn the natural order, but it would also shake the very foundation of society and humanity,” read the ruling.
https://coconuts.co/bangkok/news/lgb...l-court-rules/
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Re: You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?
"because marriage is only for reproduction, LGBTQ relationships are unnatural because they cannot produce children"
I'm sure couples who for whatever cant or choose not to conceieve children will be shocked to find out that their marriage is at best worthless and at worst "unatural" ! I wonder who's going to tell them !?
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Re: You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nirish guy
"because marriage is only for reproduction, LGBTQ relationships are unnatural because they cannot produce children"
I'm sure couples who for whatever cant or choose not to conceieve children will be shocked to find out that their marriage is at best worthless and at worst "unatural" ! I wonder who's going to tell them !?
Why would they get married at all?
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Re: You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?
"You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?"
You can get married to your boyfriend in Middlesborough, Merthyr Tydfil and Slough. Gay paradises all, right?
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Re: You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
StevieWonders
Why would they get married at all?
Love!
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Re: You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
francois
Love!
So marriage is the gold-plated, genuine relationship and everything else is merely shacking up? How quaint
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Re: You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?
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Re: You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
arsenal
"You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?"
You can get married to your boyfriend in Middlesborough, Merthyr Tydfil and Slough. Gay paradises all, right?
I guess having failed demonstrably at English our intrepid poster now wants to demonstrate his complete incompetence at the syllogism
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Re: You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?
Gay Paradise? Isn't that an entirely subjective notion? Not much of a paradise if one happens not to be into Asian guys. I don't know much about the make-up of the gay world, but I suspect those of us who do enjoy the charms of Asia guys are in a very considerable minority.
Like all the old timers I find Thailand is nothing like the gay paradise it once was a few decades ago. But then times change and it seems most gay destinations have also changed, some quite dramatically - and not for the better. I still enjoy Thailand and it still offers a lot to enjoy. Hopefully it will continue to do so, but over the longer term I am not optimistic. The elite and their allies will see to that.
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Re: You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?
Moss Side, Coalville and Coatbridge also qualify as gay paradises under stevie's narrow criteria. Don't let him arrange your stag do.
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Re: You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?
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Re: You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?
That serpent looks like a transvestite.
Now this one below is surely a better specimen.
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Re: You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?
as long as the authorities maintain a safe enviornmnet and allow anyone with enough cash to buy companionship and more.....it will remain a "gay" paradise...or what I refer to "gay wonderland".
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Re: You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
francois
Love!
Shame on you using words most of these readers either don't understand or consider prejorative.
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Re: You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?
Maybe Thailand isn't currently the gay paradise as it used to be, but for gay holiday makers if there is somewhere better than Thailand to go these days, where would that be?
I don't even factor in Thailand's Constitutional Court prohibiting same-sex marriage. Does that come as any surprise? How is that any different from the way it's always been in Thailand, including the golden years of the bar scene? Although it's nice to find out that according to the court now we're all a different species.
I wonder if they have named our species yet. Maybe it will be Homo suckfuckus. I could live with that. Or maybe the previously named species will take on a slightly different meaning - Homo erectus. Maybe we'll even get special consideration and protection if we are declared an endangered species . . .
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Re: You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gaybutton
Maybe Thailand isn't currently the gay paradise as it used to be, but for gay holiday makers if there is somewhere better than Thailand to go these days, where would that be?
That really seems to be a comment from someone who has not travelled much in search of other places which could also be called a gay paradise. What about the South American cities which many rave about? Closer to Thailand, what about Tokyo? What about Taipei? What about some of the islands in the Philippines? If you know where to go, the gay tourist can have a great time. There are certainly loads of willing local guys.
What about Singapore? This may seem an odd choice given the colonial A377 article in the criminal code. But the government has said it will not use it and seems to have stuck to its word. There are still gay bars, gay saunas, great cruising and a lot more - although obviously pricier than Thailand.
The main difference between these places and Thailand seems to be a lack of gay gogo bars. But then we have no idea for how much longer these bars are likely to operate. Hopefully many more years, but we have seen how so much of the gay scene has gone way downhill in the last decade or even more. The gay scene in Chiang Mai is a mere shadow of its former self. Phuket is worse. Unless you stick to Bangkok and Pattaya you are certainly not in any form of gay paradise. Even in Bangkok quite a few central saunas and massage spas have closed for good, including the much missed Babylon. So gay tourists have to travel further out to find the smorgasbord of gay activities in which they could previously indulge in the city centre.
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Re: You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Armando
That really seems to be a comment from someone who has not travelled much in search of other places which could also be called a gay paradise.
That is true. It has been many years since I have been to any of the places you mentioned. But I didn't ask whether there are other places for gays to go. I asked if anyone knows of a place better than Thailand to go.
If there is such a place, I'd like to know where and what about it makes it better than Thailand.
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Re: You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?
I've not yet seen a credible alternative to Thailand.
The boys on the apps in The Philippines are very good and have more modest financial requirements. However, the bars are spread all over the place, are reportedly expensive and the pictures imply they are full of muscle guys. So I didn't bother with the bars.
Cambodia has some nice lads and several bars, but only Toolbox is one I'd be keen to return to.
Yangon has some very nice massage services. However, things like food and hotels are of a far lower standard than in Thailand.
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Re: You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
goji
The boys on the apps in The Philippines are very good and have more modest financial requirements. However, the bars are spread all over the place, are reportedly expensive and the pictures imply they are full of muscle guys. So I didn't bother with the bars.
Metro Manila has a few spots for the gay crowd that sadly have diminished to single venues. Metro Manila has many cities and traffic is horrible, even at night time. But if you look at Ortigas, Cubao and Quezon City in General, you see that the gay venues there are relatively near each other. You just have to see it in the context of how big the Metro area is. The days that there were 4 or 5 places within 50 square meters is no longer.
I lived in the Philippines for a few years and I can tell you that the bars are overflowing with twinkies. You just need to go to the right places and that can be a problem to find if you are only in town for a week. For example, you could go to O bar in Ortigas, pay an arm and a leg and find the more privileged crowd. Or you could drive a little further and go to Cubao. There used to be a few places within a few meters from each other, now only Starlite might be left. A place with cheap beer, cheap decore, cringe-worthy shows, but full with cute and willing twinks.
Disclaimer: it's been a few years since I've been in the Philippines.
Let me add that the Philippines couldn't even get close to a Thai experience, but I guess it is all about what you are looking for.
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Re: You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Khor tose
Shame on you using words most of these readers either don't understand or consider prejorative.
Love is like hemorrhoids it comes and goes.
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Re: You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?
In comparing Thailand with other countries, there are some questions that need answering.
Can I walk with my boyfriend safely in cities and towns without being stared at, either in surprise or hostility?
Will hotels accept us and restaurants serve us with pleasure?
Have gay people anything to fear regarding their sexuality from policemen?
Are there sections of cities- even a few roads- which can be described as gay?
There are certainly places to which I have been attracted as a gay visitor, but some of them (specifically the non-Asian ones) seem unlikely to answer these questions positively.
And if I may throw in a more controversial observation, are the guys on the scene predominantly "gay for pay"? If so, I wouldn't be interested.
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Re: You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Oliver2
And if I may throw in a more controversial observation, are the guys on the scene predominantly "gay for pay"? If so, I wouldn't be interested.
“Gay for pay” you honestly believe a boy 30+ your junior is anxious to do to bed with you? Stop fooling yourself, regardless of what you want to believe you are simply a friend with benefits.
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Re: You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?
OMG! surely all those cute twinks who entertained me, a balding middle-aged guy, twenty years ago were doing it out of lust, not for the money? Say it ain't so, Joe!
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Re: You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Manforallseasons
Love is like hemorrhoids it comes and goes.
What is the difference between true love and Herpes?
Only one lasts for ever
:D
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Re: You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Manforallseasons
“Gay for pay” you honestly believe a boy 30+ your junior is anxious to do to bed with you? Stop fooling yourself, regardless of what you want to believe you are simply a friend with benefits.
In general, you might be right, but I'm guessing you've been looking in gogo bars and apps around Thailand. There is a whole wide world out there with boys interested in a wide range of men. You not experiencing this doesn't mean it does not exist. It just means that you didn't get any.
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Re: You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?
In free verses paid, free is rarely as good. Not just in sex but in everything.
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Re: You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gaybutton
I asked if anyone knows of a place better than Thailand to go.
If there is such a place, I'd like to know where and what about it makes it better than Thailand.
better means many different things to different people so anyone else's answer may not seem better to you
a lot of the discussion here seems to include the availability of cheap commercial sex as a requisite for a "gay paradise" but is that really still the primary selection criteria for gay tourists these days?
I am not that much of a beach person but I find it hard to believe that among all of the visitors to this forum none have found a better gay beach community than Jomtien anywhere else in the world
while there are a selection of restaurants in Pattaya or Bangkok that I like, even I have found a wider selection of restaurants in many European and other Asian cities that are better, still reasonably priced and either gay operated or comfortable for a gay couple or single tourist to enjoy in citiesI have visited like London, Amsterdam, Paris, Barcelona, Taipei, Singapore, etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Oliver2
Can I walk with my boyfriend safely in cities and towns without being stared at, either in surprise or hostility?
in Thailand this is because of tolerance or fake Thai smiles at best, certainly not acceptance, and yes it is better than being poofter bashed but in many areas in many European and Asian cities this is just not an issue
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Oliver2
Are there sections of cities- even a few roads- which can be described as gay?
having a few gay venues in easy walking distance may be a convenience, but with decent transport options do we really need gay ghettos any more?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Oliver2
And if I may throw in a more controversial observation, are the guys on the scene predominantly "gay for pay"? If so, I wouldn't be interested.
so you would not recommend Thailand to first time visitors now?
I have lived in Bangkok, and visited Pattaya regularly, for the past 25 years, and in that time have visited, once or a few times, many European and Asian cities, and while I still think Bangkok is a great city to live in - still relatively cheap, lots of entertainment and restaurant choices, easy to travel from, easy to get a long term stay (despite Immigration's best efforts), I have never considered it a "gay paradise" just because of the (no longer that cheap) commercial sex!
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Re: You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bkkguy
anyone else's answer may not seem better to you
Especially yours. Now, if you're through with your long-winded lecture, are you going to answer my question and tell me of a place better than Thailand for gays to go - no matter whose idea of 'better' might be?
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Re: You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gaybutton
Especially yours. Now, if you're through with your long-winded lecture, are you going to answer my question and tell me of a place better than Thailand for gays to go - no matter whose idea of 'better' might be?
He DID answer you question - i.e to answer is successfully it would be important (for you) to define what "better than for gays ACTUALLY meant" as as he said for one person that could mean great beaches whereas for others great city bars and high end busy gay saunas with men in them - as opposed to lack lustre bars with watered down alcohol and young boy* ( over 18 but barely sometimes) prostitutes.
So without a definition of what makes a "great gay holiday resort" its' impossible to start naming ANY of them better than any others and that was was BBGUY was clearly saying too.
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Re: You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Oliver2
OMG! surely all those cute twinks who entertained me, a balding middle-aged guy, twenty years ago were doing it out of lust, not for the money? Say it ain't so, Joe!
It ain't so, Oliver! Strangely, there are lads who do like to do it with older men, not just middle-aged but old-aged.
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Re: You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?
It seems I was absolutely right - “for retirees in Pattaya who desire an unending supply of cheap male prostitutes” Thailand is indeed a gay paradise (and theirs is the only perspective that matters)
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Re: You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
StevieWonders
It seems I was absolutely right - “for retirees in Pattaya who desire an unending supply of cheap male prostitutes” Thailand is indeed a gay paradise
And that's bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nirish guy
He DID answer you question
Not without naming somewhere he didn't. Let him define what 'better' means to him and then tell us where that might be.
I have zero interest in that kind of nitpicking. If he can't figure out that I meant a general question, that's his problem. If there is somewhere any board members would rather go than Thailand, all I'm asking is where that would be and why.
If 'better' really has to be defined, then whoever posts about somewhere better is the one who tells us where and why it's better - which obviously would be his own definition of 'better'.
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Re: You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?
That’s a ridiculous premise as of course if his preferences were different to yours you would never understand why he or anyone else would think somewhere else might be better yet less agree with him about that then.
All you can say is that YOU ( I presume) think Pattaya is the best gay place in the world etc, many people would I’m sure disagree with that statement for many different reasons. That doesn’t make you wrong when based on your preferences but it does make it wrong to others perhaps when based on their preferences. Surely you understand that.
I’m answer to your question though I would rate Sitges in Spain as “up there” as one of my most enjoyable places and I know many other gay men would say the same. That being for the lovely beach, great food, good gay bars and many hot guys both young and older.
But again that’s based on my wanting that type of holiday, if I wanted merely young cute Asian prostitutes and a bit of beach etc then Pattaya is up there for that (usually). It’s all a case of preferences and horses for courses so you can’t honestly expect an all encompassing answer to such a limited question.
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Re: You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gaybutton
And that's bad?
On the contrary it confirms my view that there’s no single idea of what it means to be “gay” (if anything) and in particular it gives the lie to the whole concept of an “LGBT etcetera community”
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Re: You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nirish guy
All you can say is that YOU ( I presume) think Pattaya is the best gay place in the world
To answer my question it doesn't matter what I think. I'm glad you mentioned a specific place. With all the sniping back and forth, you gave your answer to my question. I hope that will get some others to also let us know where and why.
I asked a very simple question and some are trying to make much more out of it and make it complicated. Sorry, I'm not going to play or get sucked in to any further discussion about it - whether you're anal retentive or not. If you don't want to answer the question, then don't answer the question.
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Re: You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Oliver2
In comparing Thailand with other countries, there are some questions that need answering.
Can I walk with my boyfriend safely in cities and towns without being stared at, either in surprise or hostility?
Will hotels accept us and restaurants serve us with pleasure?
Have gay people anything to fear regarding their sexuality from policemen?
Are there sections of cities- even a few roads- which can be described as gay?
There are certainly places to which I have been attracted as a gay visitor, but some of them (specifically the non-Asian ones) seem unlikely to answer these questions positively.
And if I may throw in a more controversial observation, are the guys on the scene predominantly "gay for pay"? If so, I wouldn't be interested.
In Tokyo, Taipei and Singapore the answers are definitely Yes, Yes, No, Yes. Over quite a few years I can count the number of gay for play requests on the apps on one hand. Even holding hands with your boyfriend in Singapore is unlikely to result in anything more than an occasional glance from one of the older generation.
I think the main issue is that the cities I have mentioned are all a bit more expensive than Thailand. Also weather. Apart from Singapore, you will be in cities with real seasons, and in Tokyo it can be really cold in winter. Naturally you can find cheaper hotels and eateries everywhere if you do enough checking or ask someone with experience of the cities. There is even an all gay hotel in Taipei which will welcome you with open arms.
https://gshotel.business.site
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Re: You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?
Yes; Asian cultural attitudes are very different to those in, for example, South America. A combination of conservative Christian beliefs and machismo are not likely to be as tolerant of non-conforming sexualities, though countries like pre-Bolsonaro Brazil, Chavez's Venezuela and Uruguay were encouraged by left-wing governments to be more open, perhaps partly due to the power of the Catholic Church being diminished.
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Re: You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gaybutton
Especially yours. Now, if you're through with your long-winded lecture, are you going to answer my question and tell me of a place better ?
And again in case you missed it GB Bkkguy DID answer your question - you just perhaps failed to read his reply to you correctly it or just didn't wish to take his point, but he DID answer and reply, both with several locations other tha Thailand and also the reason he thought them "better' in regard to what HE found to be one of the metrics he used when "scoring" a city when he said to you.......
"I have found a wider selection of restaurants in many European and other Asian cities that are better, still reasonably priced and either gay operated or comfortable for a gay couple or single tourist to enjoy in citiesI have visited like London, Amsterdam, Paris, Barcelona, Taipei, Singapore"
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Re: You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nirish guy
And again in case you missed it GB Bkkguy DID answer your question
I missed nothing. Do you think posting a string of city names answers my question? It doesn't.
And my question included "I'd like to know where and what about it makes it better than Thailand."
Where's the part where he explains what makes any of those places better than Thailand? Go ahead and support him if you want to, but his responses are no answer. It's nothing more than his usual adversarial posting. I'm surprised you don't see that.
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Re: You still think Thailand is a gay paradise?
Actually I only see one person being adversarial on this thread.......you asked for places - he gave you places, you asked why he told you why ( in his case the restauants) - that was his answer, the fact you dont like or accept that answer is more just down to you perhaps.