Wine in Thailand

Why is it wine is so expensive in Thailand? Coming from a wine producing area in Oz, and partial to a drop or three, I may be spoilt by being able to purchase wine at a very reasonable price at home, but I am perplexed by the unavailability of cheap (reasonably priced) wine in Thailand. Is there import duty on wine which causes the price to be expensive (exhorbitant in many cases), or is it because it is a relatively niche market for farang who are presumed to be able to afford inflated prices. I dont mind paying for something special, but when I look at the prices charged in most restaurants and hotels, they really are over the top. Dinner for four at a reasonably priced restaurant with a couple of bottles of wine becomes an expensive outing. Off the top of my head a common and pleasant red from Jacob's Creek (which seems to be popular with the Brits) may cost me $AUD10 at home (about 280 - 300 baht) yet in Pattaya I may pay anything from 1500 baht upwards (about $AUD50). I may be a bit out in my estimation, but you get the picture.
One thing I have observed in Pattaya seems to be the dearth of bottle shops or the like where I may purchase reasonably priced wine - anyone enlighten me?

Tks

There is a 300 percent import tax on wine.
What that means, of course, is you have to spend 1000 baht to get what would be a 300 baht bottle without the duty.
Ridiculous, isn't it?
Hilariously, I think Thai wine also carries a large duty.
There is some kind of program to gradually reduce the tax on Aussie wine, over the years. Not sure of the exact numbers on it.

Why do they do it? My guess is that it is mostly and farang and rich Thai thing, and they need to discourage baht spending on luxury imports (for foreign exchange balance reasons), or at least make money on it. Same phenom of imported cars, which are shockingly expensive compared to Europe and the US.

Bottom line is that if you are expat in Thailand on a budget, you won't be drinking good wine very often.
The best I found is the Wine Connection shop on 2nd road and sometimes specials at Foodland.

Thaiquila -- would love to hear about the gradual reduction of tax on (Aussie-only?) foreign wine, if you happen to see it published somewhere.

I love having wine with most meals -- and yes, I did once ask a waitress in Melbourne if she could recommend a nice breakfast wine, after the typical overnight flight to Oz!!! When I was posted to Bangkok, I found the Wine Connection there to be a bit pricey (maybe the one in Pattaya is more reasonable given lower overhead etc.).

What I did find was Villa Market - usuall the one on Sukhumvit between 33 and 35, but occasionally the one down by (Soi 6 is it??). They have a whole floor, temperature and light controlled, dedicated to wine. Each month they have 30 to 50 wines on sale, and the sale prices are good -- especially if you can survive without having European wines very often. After your first few cases, the staff get to know you, and will call your attention to new arrivals, or even 'extend' a sale if you have a particular favourite.

As I will now be commuting to Jomtien most weekends now, it would be great to hear from some other folks in the Pattaya area on where the best bargains can be had on vino! In Hong Kong, for example, I've joined a few wine clubs that bring great bargains, provided you buy by the case -- is there any such thing over here?

Thailand and Australia have signed a Free trade Agreement. TAFTA In about 14 years time there will be no taxes between the two countries and things are being phased to ease any pain. One problem is that their is both tax and duty on wines and the duty will remain. Details I don't know. Perhaps you would like to read the agreement and advise?

http://www.austchamthailand.com/AustCha ... nsorID=409

I don't really understand the difference between tax and duty for wine.
Is the 300 percent a duty or a tax?

Wine Connection prices will probably be the same. There are no bargains for wine in Thailand. The only variable is the retail markup; they are all stuck with the 300 percent.

Ok, I'm no expert, but for a fruity little cheap number, you can't go wrong in buying a box of red from a Thai supermarket. Forget all the expensive wines, get into the cheap plonk that get's you merry after two glases and completely sozzled after four.

Strange how different places have different things which are more or less expensive.

Thailand - good wine & good cheeses are expensive.
Australia - I couldn't believe how much books cost unless you go second hand.
UK - Fags (ciggies) seem to be the most expensive in the world not to mention 'cheap' B&B's costing more than many hotels elsewhere in the world.

Plonk?
Might as well drink 100 Pipers!

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Originally Posted by Fatman41

Ok, I'm no expert, but for a fruity little cheap number, you can't go wrong in buying a box of red from a Thai supermarket. Forget all the expensive wines, get into the cheap plonk that get's you merry after two glases and completely sozzled after four.

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Chateaux Box -- just say no!!!

First, for all you wine lovers in Chiang Mai, don't miss Darling Wine Bar on Huay Gaew on the way to Doi Suthep (no longer on Nimanhemin!). They are now serving a fine dinner as well. Of course, all involved are FOD (Friends of Dorothy).

For me, I've found nothing beats a bottle of French or Italian "table wine". Best bet is the wine shop at Lotus on the Superhighway (odd name for the long-muddy ditch). If you are looking for something more unusual, try Tops in Kad Suan Gaew, but they are a bit high. Carrefour used to be fine, but they've let their stock whittle down and there isn't much remarkable left at a reasonable price.

There is nothing like Ozzie Wine... http://www.winelyltd.com/products.htm

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What I did find was Villa Market - usuall the one on Sukhumvit between 33 and 35, but occasionally the one down by (Soi 6 is it??). They have a whole floor, temperature and light controlled, dedicated to wine. Each month they have 30 to 50 wines on sale, and the sale prices are good -- especially if you can survive without having European wines very often. After your first few cases, the staff get to know you, and will call your attention to new arrivals, or even 'extend' a sale if you have a particular favourite.

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Yes Villa market, near Suk 33, is an excellent place to buy wine, I buy mine there as well, and I usually go for the buy 1 get 1 free sales. My boyfriend loves to drink wine, but really the prices are still silly. Two weeks ago, I bought some Aussie white wine, for 900 baht I got two bottles. I'm sure the same bottles would have cost me around 400 baht back in my home country.

I used to bring as a present for an expat who manages my property in Pattaya, several bottles of really good red.

Now with the difficulty of taking bottles on planes, might have to look at the duty free shop as an alternative.

Usually I am in such a hurry to get my bags and go, I linger to look at prices in the duty free.

Has anybody bought wine at Dom Muang?

I know that duty free wines at OZ airports are often more expensive than at our cut price liquor chains..

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Originally Posted by sjaak327

[but really the prices are still silly. Two weeks ago, I bought some Aussie white wine, for 900 baht I got two bottles. I'm sure the same bottles would have cost me around 400 baht back in my home country

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I think that's a whine about wine. Of course the prices are goint to be different for two glaringly obvious reasons
1 transport to Thailand
2 excise tax in Thailand
and one less obvious - competition keeps prices low where they can be kept low - in Australian liquor shops. They'll be higher in Australian airport dury free shops because they are a monopoly. Once you're at the aiport, all your choices disappear. Once you're in Thailand, your choices don't expand all that much

Obviously day-to-day economics is something many people don't comprehend

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I think that's a whine about wine. Of course the prices are goint to be different for two glaringly obvious reasons
1 transport to Thailand
2 excise tax in Thailand

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Well the first reason is doubtfull, since in my home country they don't produce any wine, surely if I purchase Aussie wine in the Netherlands, you would even think that the transport cost would be higher, then getting the same bottle into Thailand.

I agree about the second reason being obvious.

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Originally Posted by sjaak327

Well the first reason is doubtfull, since in my home country they don't produce any wine, surely if I purchase Aussie wine in the Netherlands, you would even think that the transport cost would be higher, then getting the same bottle into Thailand

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If the costs of transportation to Thailand vs The Netherlands were the only variable then that's a possibility but despite the difference in distance there's probably not a great deal of difference in costs translated to the individual bottle level. However direct costs of transportation to a country are not the only variable. There are indirect transportation (landing) costs as well, which have to do with the efficiency and lack of corruption, "spillages" etc. at the port and on the road. I'm prepared to venture (since my family company is inolved in import/export in Thailand) that ports in the Netherlands have much lower landing costs all round than ports in Thailand

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Originally Posted by homintern

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Originally Posted by sjaak327

Well the first reason is doubtfull, since in my home country they don't produce any wine, surely if I purchase Aussie wine in the Netherlands, you would even think that the transport cost would be higher, then getting the same bottle into Thailand

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If the costs of transportation to Thailand vs The Netherlands were the only variable then that's a possibility but despite the difference in distance there's probably not a great deal of difference in costs translated to the individual bottle level. However direct costs of transportation to a country are not the only variable. There are indirect transportation (landing) costs as well, which have to do with the efficiency and lack of corruption, "spillages" etc. at the port and on the road. I'm prepared to venture (since my family company is inolved in import/export in Thailand) that ports in the Netherlands have much lower landing costs all round than ports in Thailand

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Then I stand corrected. Anyway it wasn't really a whinge, more of an observation, most things are cheaper in Thailand then they are back in Europe, wine is an exception.

silly question maybe...? but are you allowed to bring a bottle or two from the US to Thailand as a gift.....or will they hit you with the duty no matter...? I have taken bottle to Japan with no problems...but of course it is not Thailand..?

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Originally Posted by kodiak

silly question maybe...? but are you allowed to bring a bottle or two from the US to Thailand as a gift.....or will they hit you with the duty no matter...? I have taken bottle to Japan with no problems...but of course it is not Thailand..?

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Have you ever had your luggage searched coming into Thailand?

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Originally Posted by homintern

Have you ever had your luggage searched coming into Thailand?

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Every time that I am not carrying golf bags, they seem to want to look in my duty free bag (only). They don't seem to mind the two bottles of wine, but they always ask if I am bringing more than one carton of cigarettes.

What kind of corckage fee should I expect to pay......if going to one of Pattyas finer establishments..?

In Pattaya's very finest establishments they wouldn't recognise a cork in a bottle, as they assume that corks are always worn on hats to keep the flies off.

You can buy wine on arrival at Don Muang duty free by the baggage collection.
Oz plonk (e.g. Hardys VR Cab Sauv) is 300 baht a litre (compared with about 500 baht in Friendship or Tesco for a 75cl bottle They also have some seriously good wines (mainly Oz) at reasonable prices.
Duty free allowance into Thailand is one litre of booze (wine or spirits) but I've bought 4 litres at the duty free shop on arrival without any problems.

Corkage at restaurants in Pattaya varies from 200 baht (Oliviers, Hot Stone ) to 300 baht (Saigon Bayview, Brunos).

Thanks LC thats exactly the info I was looking for.......I knew someone would give a decent answer to such a simple question..!! Thanks Again

I can't say I understand what all the fuss is about. I think wine is sadly a very pretentious thing to want to drink in Thailand. Im my opinion it is a nasty drink for the tropics, no matter what kind you are drinking. Red is worse, but all of it is just plonk in this heat and humidity. It makes you feel tired, listless and uncomfortably dorf, leaving very little enthusiasm for merriment.

Believe me if you live in the tropics, Gin and tonic will be a staple, even beer is nicer. Cocktails also work well, the drier ones, like a nice dry Martini with a fresh lychee or longan or Pimms without lemonade but rather fresh lime and soda, works wonders.

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Originally Posted by Cedric

I can't say I understand what all the fuss is about. I think wine is sadly a very pretentious thing to want to drink in Thailand. Im my opinion it is a nasty drink for the tropics, no matter what kind you are drinking. Red is worse, but all of it is just plonk in this heat and humidity. It makes you feel tired, listless and uncomfortably dorf, leaving very little enthusiasm for merriment.

Believe me if you live in the tropics, Gin and tonic will be a staple, even beer is nicer. Cocktails also work well, the drier ones, like a nice dry Martini with a fresh lychee or longan or Pimms without lemonade but rather fresh lime and soda, works wonders.

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Cedric,

I thoroughly agree that gin and tonic is an absolute staple (not just for the tropics, either). But just once -- try a cold, crisp glass of Poully-Fuisse (or perhaps a Merseault) as the first wine at dinner. It brings frost to the tropics!

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Originally Posted by mumbaighost

Every time that I am not carrying golf bags, they seem to want to look in my duty free bag (only)

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Some people obviously want to attract attention!

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Originally Posted by kodiak

Thanks LC thats exactly the info I was looking for.......I knew someone would give a decent answer to such a simple question..!! Thanks Again

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You should re-read your original question which dealt with bring booze into Thailand from the US. The statement that was made, which you now say exactly answers your question, had to do with booze you can buy on arrival in Thailand. There is a rather large difference between the two. My point was that, unless you flaunt it, you'll never get searched so in practice you can load up your entire suitcase with booze brought from the US to Thailand. That is an entirely different issue to what are the duty-free allowances and can you buy booze on arrival at the airport

You are right Homiterm , thanks for your more accurate response to my original post......better late than never

I will load a few better california wines when I come in January.....they are a bit heavy....so will have to watch what I pack.....!!

Thanks Again

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Originally Posted by Cedric

I can't say I understand what all the fuss is about. I think wine is sadly a very pretentious thing to want to drink in Thailand. Im my opinion it is a nasty drink for the tropics, no matter what kind you are drinking. Red is worse, but all of it is just plonk in this heat and humidity. It makes you feel tired, listless and uncomfortably dorf, leaving very little enthusiasm for merriment.

Believe me if you live in the tropics, Gin and tonic will be a staple, even beer is nicer. Cocktails also work well, the drier ones, like a nice dry Martini with a fresh lychee or longan or Pimms without lemonade but rather fresh lime and soda, works wonders.

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Are you condemning us natives to insipid beer and fancy cocktails? That wine should be reserved to the fine gentlemen in more temperate regions? What drivel...

Wine can be enjoyed here in the outback.. just remember to chill your whites AND reds (slightly). Maybe you should actually try some when you next visit the backward rainforests of Bangkok.

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Originally Posted by kodiak

your more accurate response to my original post......better late than never

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My second response merely amplified my first response; it added nothing new to it. However you are always welcome to join the growing band who have me on {Ignore}

Amplified...? Not exactly the word i would use..? Clarified maybe...!! But why would I put you on ignore....you took the time to actually give me info i was seeking.....and i do appreciate it..!!!

And for those who dont think quality wine is tastey in Thailand obviously just dont know good wine.....Quality wine is good anywhere in the world.....unless your tastebuds are numbed by all that gin and tonic...?

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Originally Posted by TopChinese

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Originally Posted by Cedric

Are you condemning us natives to insipid beer and fancy cocktails? That wine should be reserved to the fine gentlemen in more temperate regions? What drivel...

Wine can be enjoyed here in the outback.. just remember to chill your whites AND reds (slightly). Maybe you should actually try some when you next visit the backward rainforests of Bangkok.

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I see wine promotions do actually work. There I was thinking no one in their right minds believes all that crap, about wine being only for the discerning. Coming from a land where the average person thinks Rolex is the ultimate status symbol, I suppose not too surprising that the myths surrounding Plonk are taken seriously. Anything to to increase market share. Next you will be telling me that gnawing dog penis is good for the libido?

Of course I like wine, I used to drink it with every meal when I lived in Brussels, for me it was a staple, along with blood sausage and raw cow. However there are only certain altitudes in the tropics where wine can be enjoyed, minus the heat and humidity that turns it into stuff better reserved for the septic tank. Climate and altitude aside,wine is also not suitable for most of the food in the tropics, despite what the promoters will have you believe, and that includes anything spicy.

Now of course if you live in a totally artificial environment, and I suspect you don't out there in the outback, with constant aircon and controlled humidity and your wine is kept absolutely at thirty fathoms deep beneath your humble hut, then a sip or three behind closed doors in the brief cool season would probably be quite nice. Bangkok is the very worst place to indulge, add a few cubic tons of exhaust fumes to the mix and you are all set to climb Doi Inthawichayanon with yer head stuckup yer arse. But why bother when there are so many other delicious tried and tested alternatives infinitely more suitable.

Then again it must be considered an exotic snort by the natives, who are probably immune to it's finer points anyway, so cheers, enjoy!

Wine in Thailand

Australian and Chi lien are quite popular because of good price, comparing to french and California. Cause of the weather that is hot and humid. Wine are difficult to keep long in Thailand. So white wine from Australia and fruity wine from Chili are most popular.

Or try Thai wine ! Join the club

http://www.royalcliff.com/rcwineclub.htm

PS. Cedric during your stay in Brussels, did you try " Grand Cru de manneken pis "?!


http://upload4.postimage.org/1005550/18.jpg

Oh yes I certainly will be reserving my "strictly limited seat, available on a first come-first -served basis" for the "Royal Cliff beach resort" wine clubs tour and tasting of the "highly acclaimed" PBValley winery. Lets hope my reservation doesn't come before I do, on that strictly first come basis, as this sounds like the highlight, I would like it to last.

Californian wines are predictably overrated. Chilean wines are good, especially the ubiquitous supermarket Merlot, somewhat coarse but not too bad if you are eating barbecued mackeril or lamb in Gomera.
If the idea of wine really sets you on fire and you simply must have some on your exotic tropical island paradise, try a deep frozen Riesling with tons of ice, from New Zealand or Austria, these are some of the very few wines that can even be had with Thai food, not the late harvest Riesling from else-where, you don't want to choke on syrup. Forget the French crap, it will only make you reach for the bucket.

White or red fruity or not, it is like "offing" a fat old sweaty retired German cabbage boer, off Sunni plaza, is there a point? Unless you are like Baziel who likes things just outside of the expected?

My experience of dining with Thai guys (on the rare occassions I eat at a 'proper' restaurant) is that Thai guys avoid wine like the plague with explanations that it makes them 'Mao too quick', sticks around on the palate too long and leaves them with a throbbing head in the morning (and not the throbbing head you'd wish for). Most of the guys I have dined with prefer plain and simple water with any meal and then move on to the Sang Som, 100 Pipers, Mehkong(?) and even the odd G&T when they want to look 'real sophisticated', like Pearl. :cheers:

The natives know best!

I love having wine with most meals -- and yes, I did once ask a waitress in Melbourne if she could recommend a nice breakfast wine, after the typical overnight flight to Oz!!! When I was posted to Bangkok, I found the Wine Connection there to be a bit pricey (maybe the one in Pattaya is more reasonable given lower overhead etc.). Good god I would love to know what they recommened?

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Originally Posted by Cedric

Now of course if you live in a totally artificial environment, and I suspect you don't out there in the outback, with constant aircon and controlled humidity and your wine is kept absolutely at thirty fathoms deep beneath your humble hut, then a sip or three behind closed doors in the brief cool season would probably be quite nice. Bangkok is the very worst place to indulge, add a few cubic tons of exhaust fumes to the mix and you are all set to climb Doi Inthawichayanon with yer head stuckup yer arse. But why bother when there are so many other delicious tried and tested alternatives infinitely more suitable.

Then again it must be considered an exotic snort by the natives, who are probably immune to it's finer points anyway, so cheers, enjoy!

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Seems like sarcasm is lost on you like good taste. Oh well... such is life on this board, as I'm pondering the nature of life sitting in the tropics with a lovely glass of perfectly chilled Riesling. Pity you don't seem to be able to keep an open mind about things. Unlike my friends who will be at my party in Bangkok next week, enjoying the crisp Sauvignon Blanc from Hawkes Bay, New Zealand and probably the delicious Kanonkop Pinotage 2004 served with a selection of antipasti and tapas...

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Originally Posted by t2mk6

Good god I would love to know what they recommened?

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For breakfast, nothing beats a good cup of freshly brewed coffee. A NV champagne like Veuve or a Pol Roger could also go a long way. I love having my Krug with my breakfast on that SQ flight before arriving in JFK.. :)

[quote="TopChinese"]Seems like sarcasm is lost on you like good taste. Oh well... such is life on this board, as I'm pondering the nature of life sitting in the tropics with a lovely glass of perfectly chilled Riesling. Pity you don't seem to be able to keep an open mind about things. Unlike my friends who will be at my party in Bangkok next week, enjoying the crisp Sauvignon Blanc from Hawkes Bay, New Zealand and probably the delicious Kanonkop Pinotage 2004 served with a selection of antipasti and tapas...
[quote="t2mk6"]

"TopChinese" (isn't that a contradiction in terms) enjoy my recomendation. You will find the Rieseling excelent.

I have an assortment of wine here you are most welcome to, including a case of Chinese ones, rather romantically calling themselves simply, "Greatwall", a 1995 Cabernet Sauvignon.
Every so often I open one up take a deep sniff, turn cross eyed and use it for mouth wash. I find in this tropical heat it it is excellent for getting a dry mouth back into action.
Your Kanonkop Pinotage interests me, if you have ever stuffed a handful of these fresh grapes into your mouth you will know that they are extraordinarily disgusting, the resulting wine similarly has overtones of nail varnish and the mellow bouquet of gasoline. I give you 100% for having an open mind, and the same for bravery. I would reserve it for last , when you are already too crapulous to care, the projectile tapas, hurled your
way, will wash out in time, and so might your stomach.

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Originally Posted by Fatman41

My experience is that Thai guys avoid wine like the plague

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Au contraire. When the King had his heart problems a few years ago, he enjoined the Thais to drink red wine and many still do. I have dinner regularly with Thais (both in Bangkok and among the Thai disapora) who of their own volition order and drink wine. I guess it's a matter of getting used to it. With bar boys I suspect it's usually (although not always) different, as many of them drink merely to get drunk, and spirits do that much faster