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Phuket Sandbox open; TAT awards “Amazing Dodgems” moniker
As I predicted, the Phuket Sandbox is now open. The naysayers - including a447 and especially Dodgems - failed to understand from the outset that it's merely Phase One of a multi-phase re-opening. To have delayed the phase would threaten the entire timetable, and the Thai government simply was not going to let that happen. There are those who argue it won't be a "success" measured by the numbers who arrive. That's not the yardstick the government is aiming for. They want a sandbox within which they can tweak, abandon or expand the settings as real-life events dictate. They've even left themselves at "out" - 90+ new COVID infections in a 7-day period.
Will it be a success in any sense? As I've said several times the Chou Enlai answer is the most apposite at the moment - "too soon to tell". I hope so but in the face of the Delta variant I'm sceptical, especially of the Pattaya and Chiang Mai Sandboxes kicking off in September/October.
In recognition of Dodgems' unique contribution to the successful opening of the Phuket Sandbox the TAT is extending the use of the Amazing Thailand slogan so that he will henceforth be known as "Amazing Dodgems" In the meantime here's a selection from Dodgems' Greatest Hits:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodger
Once this third-wave Thailand's encountering plateaus and/or starts to decline, and the majority of the Thai population is vaccinated, these reopening's have a chance of working. Until then it's all window-dressing and TAT's efforts will remain gridlocked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodger
Phuket Sandbox details provided in news releases continue to stress Phuket's headstrong determination to re-open to tourists "quarantine-free" on July 1st, although, to date, only 50% of the population has received vaccinations (we think), and the percentage of those who still need a second dose is not clearly shown in Phuket data. Lots of gaps in the reporting and the data as we've come to expect.
In any event, and I know others may disagree, I see July 1st as being a real long shot just based on the arithmetic. Evan if they extend the opening until September (which they'll probably end up doing), it will all hinge on the status of the covid surge Kingdom-wide, and the availability of an effective vaccine(s).
https://sawatdeenetwork.com/v4/showt...x-update/page3 post #30
It's been a consistent drumbeat from a poster who claims to understand QA but clearly doesn't understand risk assessment or critical path management. First of all, there were multiple posts saying "it'll never happen". Then "The vaccine they're using will be ineffective anyway". Then "It will be delayed". And now?
Now - today - 200+ International passengers are scheduled to arrive.
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Re: Phuket Sandbox open; TAT awards “Amazing Dodgems” moniker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Brad the Impala
I think that these statements about multiple posters, in repeated breach of guidelines, should be deleted or at least moved to the hydra thread pronto . . .
Posts unrelated to the topic have been moved to the existing thread, More hydra talk, which can be found in the Feedback Forum by clicking on the following link:
https://sawatdeenetwork.com/v4/showt...ore-hydra-talk
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Re: Phuket Sandbox open; TAT awards “Amazing Dodgems” moniker
Now the children are playing in a different Sandbox, here’s a firsthand account from one of yesterday’s arrivals-
https://madamemamuang.com/2021/07/01/phuket-airport/
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Re: Phuket Sandbox open; TAT awards “Amazing Dodgems” moniker
And the cartoonists have their say (he must have read my OP)
Attachment 11299
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Re: Phuket Sandbox open; TAT awards “Amazing Dodgems” moniker
And the government’s message - “This is worth it”. Let’s hope so.
https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand...ning-kicks-off
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Re: Phuket Sandbox open; TAT awards “Amazing Dodgems” moniker
Remove the posts regarding multiple handles and Brad's complaint and what you have is steviewonders discussing his own thread with himself.
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Re: Phuket Sandbox open; TAT awards “Amazing Dodgems” moniker
I’m looking for an intelligent conversation.
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Re: Phuket Sandbox open; TAT awards “Amazing Dodgems” moniker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
arsenal
Remove the posts regarding multiple handles and Brad's complaint and what you have is steviewonders discussing his own thread with himself.
Actually what you have, in the absence of intelligent conversation, is some informative links to how the Phuket Sandbox is working on it's first day, including first hand experience. They confirm that flights arrived from Doha, Singapore, Israel and UAE.
For anyone considering going through the sandbox system, they were useful to read.
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Re: Phuket Sandbox open; TAT awards “Amazing Dodgems” moniker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
StevieWonders
I’m looking for an intelligent conversation.
You called?
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Re: Phuket Sandbox open; TAT awards “Amazing Dodgems” moniker
Todays update from the Bangkok Post. Particularly liked the "souvenirs" offered to the arrivals!
https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand...s-almost-1-000
Also Thaiger update.
https://thethaiger.com/hot-news/tour...d-restrictions
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Re: Phuket Sandbox open; TAT awards “Amazing Dodgems” moniker
Remember those scoffing posts that no one would play in the Sandbox? I recall even my #1 fan* posted a silly comment about only 28 people. According to the Bangkok Post more than 1,300 arrived in the first 3 days:
https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2142903
* gerefan2. Does that mean he’s my #1 fan but Richard Gere’s #2 fan? Or I’m first in his heart and Richard Gere merely second? Or does the “2” simply stand for “too”?
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Re: Phuket Sandbox open; TAT awards “Amazing Dodgems” moniker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
StevieWonders
* gerefan2. Does that mean he’s my #1 fan but Richard Gere’s #2 fan? Or I’m first in his heart and Richard Gere merely second? Or does the “2” simply stand for “too”?
None of that rambling nonsense.
Link removed under rule 3.2.3 (5). An unexpurgated version of this post can be found by clicking on the following link:
https://sawatdeenetwork.com/v4/showt...l=1#post280320
Jellybean
Moderator
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Re: Phuket Sandbox open; TAT awards “Amazing Dodgems” moniker
The view from the Phuket hotel industry (cautious optimism) - https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/2143527
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Re: Phuket Sandbox open; TAT awards “Amazing Dodgems” moniker
Almost 8,000 Certificate of Entry applications - https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand...apply-to-visit
Quote:
Originally Posted by goji
If living well within one's means and having a lot of fun doing it, one would be a fool not to part with the money.
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Re: Phuket Sandbox open; TAT awards “Amazing Dodgems” moniker
I wonder how many tourists realised that if they arrived as part of a tour group and one member tested positive they’d all be locked up. Amazing Thailand.
https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2144879
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Re: Phuket Sandbox open; TAT awards “Amazing Dodgems” moniker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
StevieWonders
I suspect that the sort of tourists who choose to travel as part of a tour group, wouldn't wish it to be any other way.
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Re: Phuket Sandbox open; TAT awards “Amazing Dodgems” moniker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sen Yai
I suspect that the sort of tourists who choose to travel as part of a tour group, wouldn't wish it to be any other way.
There are advantages in being a misanthrope.
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Re: Phuket Sandbox open; TAT awards “Amazing Dodgems” moniker
I thought ALL ARRIVING tourists in Phuket HAD TO 14 day quarantine anyway???
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Re: Phuket Sandbox open; TAT awards “Amazing Dodgems” moniker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Blueskytoday
I thought ALL ARRIVING tourists in Phuket HAD TO 14 day quarantine anyway???
Significant difference between required to quarantine in a hotel for 14 days, and being able to quarantine throughout Phuket for 14 days.
Misanthropes would probably enjoy Phuket more than usual currently given the absence of hoards of tourists!
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Re: Phuket Sandbox open; TAT awards “Amazing Dodgems” moniker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Blueskytoday
I thought ALL ARRIVING tourists in Phuket HAD TO 14 day quarantine anyway???
The whole idea of the Sandbox scheme is instead of quarantining in one hotel room, Phuket becomes a quarantine island and you can travel anywhere on it.
So much more attractive than hotel quarantine.
If nothing changed between now and December, I'd be doing the sandbox scheme for the winter holiday. In practice, there will be lots of changes, in Thailand and elsewhere.
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Re: Phuket Sandbox open; TAT awards “Amazing Dodgems” moniker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
goji
The whole idea of the Sandbox scheme is instead of quarantining in one hotel room, Phuket becomes a quarantine island and you can travel anywhere on it.
If only goji were not a Bookburner, he could’ve made a context-appropriate response to the hapless Blueskytoday. :devilsh:
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Re: Phuket Sandbox open; TAT awards “Amazing Dodgems” moniker
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Re: Phuket Sandbox open; TAT awards “Amazing Dodgems” moniker
12 of the tourists more closely quarantined because someone else in their tour party tested positive have asked to fly home - https://www.thephuketnews.com/sandbo...home-80618.php
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Re: Phuket Sandbox open; TAT awards “Amazing Dodgems” moniker
Phuket Sandbox turns into Venus Fly Trap.
You can only blame the fly's.
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Re: Phuket Sandbox open; TAT awards “Amazing Dodgems” moniker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dodger
Phuket Sandbox turns into Venus Fly Trap.
You can only blame the fly's.
Look at that Stevie, he doesn't have you on ignore afterall.
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Re: Phuket Sandbox open; TAT awards “Amazing Dodgems” moniker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cdnmatt
Look at that Stevie, he doesn't have you on ignore afterall.
I’m not sure what you are referring to. And Amazing Dodgems still doesn’t know that the plural of “fly” is “flies”. “fly’s” is the possessive of the singular “fly” or alternatively the abbreviation of “fly is”. Either way, he still playing to his strengths - writing nonsense.
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Re: Phuket Sandbox open; TAT awards “Amazing Dodgems” moniker
There are health insurances that pay when you are positive but asymptomatic, but is there an insurance that pays when you are quarantined or hospitalized because someone else on your flight is positive?
This incident is more bad press for Thailand. They have little to lose health-wise from one or two positive arrivals, but a lot to lose in reputation and tourist numbers later.
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Re: Phuket Sandbox open; TAT awards “Amazing Dodgems” moniker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
christianpfc
There are health insurances that pay when you are positive but asymptomatic, but is there an insurance that pays when you are quarantined or hospitalized because someone else on your flight is positive?
This incident is more bad press for Thailand. They have little to lose health-wise from one or two positive arrivals, but a lot to lose in reputation and tourist numbers later.
As the news story clearly states, they were all members of the same tour group. It is not all the passengers on the same flight. Some insurance policies provide for “family members”; I’m guessing that it would have to be a tour group specific policy to cover this specific situation.
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Re: Phuket Sandbox open; TAT awards “Amazing Dodgems” moniker
The Phuket Sandtrap was destined to fail from the start.
No vaccine - no REAL reopening...not anywhere.
The rest of 2021 will be spent waiting for an effective vaccine distribution - while the Delta variant sweeps across the Kingdom claiming its victims.
Not good news at all - but a reality that people have no choice but to accept.
Standing back and waving flags for these TAT Sandbox Schemes, at a time when the lives of so many people are at stake, is short-sighted and self-serving to put it mildly.
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Re: Phuket Sandbox open; TAT awards “Amazing Dodgems” moniker
These sandbox schemes are just that “schemes’ that will be washed away like sandcastles by a rising tide of Covid infections.
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Re: Phuket Sandbox open; TAT awards “Amazing Dodgems” moniker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dodger
...at a time when the lives of so many people are at stake,...
Number of lives lost is insignificant, both for Thailand as well as worldwide. Similar numbers of people die from road accidents, smoking or drinking related diseases and other.
Every year 55 mio people die worldwide. At peak, there were 15 k death with (not from!) Covid daily, which makes 5 mio per year, which would be a 10% increase. However many of them would have died from something else anyway, so the real increase of mortality is lower than 10% and probably just above statistical noise.
Before the current outbreak in Thailand, there were more death from suicide for economical problems (due to Covid) than Covid.
This is a clear case where the remedy (lockdown, travel restrictions, limitation of social activities) is worse than the disease.
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Re: Phuket Sandbox open; TAT awards “Amazing Dodgems” moniker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
christianpfc
Number of lives lost is insignificant, both for Thailand as well as worldwide. Similar numbers of people die from road accidents, smoking or drinking related diseases and other.
I expect certain people will again claim this is heresy, but so far 2625 people have died in 18 months of covid in Thailand, whereas according to some sources, 20,000 die every year in road accidents. So it's correct.
That's every year, not a once in a century pandemic (approximate frequency).
Meanwhile, in the UK with a similar population, about 1850 die on the roads
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Re: Phuket Sandbox open; TAT awards “Amazing Dodgems” moniker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
goji
I expect certain people will again claim this is heresy, but so far 2625 people have died in 18 months of covid in Thailand, whereas according to some sources, 20,000 die every year in road accidents. So it's correct.
That's every year, not a once in a century pandemic (approximate frequency).
Meanwhile, in the UK with a similar population, about 1850 die on the roads
20,000 in Thailand v 1850 on the roads in the UK.
2635 in Thailand v 128399 of Covid in the UK.
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Re: Phuket Sandbox open; TAT awards “Amazing Dodgems” moniker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gerefan2
20,000 in Thailand v 1850 on the roads in the UK.
2635 in Thailand v 128399 of Covid in the UK.
There are proportionately more obese people with comorbidity in the UK cf Thailand?
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Re: Phuket Sandbox open; TAT awards “Amazing Dodgems” moniker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
christianpfc
Before the current outbreak in Thailand, there were more death from suicide for economical problems (due to Covid) than Covid.
This is a clear case where the remedy (lockdown, travel restrictions, limitation of social activities) is worse than the disease.
Thailand has a potential disaster on its hands with the Delta variant sweeping across the Kingdom, and doesn't have enough vaccine for a single province - let alone the country. Adding to this threat, is the fact that the Sinovac vaccine that the majority of Thais are receiving doesn't appear to be effective at protecting against this variant. The hospitals over here are already filled to capacity, and testing for the virus is over-capacity.
This all adds up to a potential disaster unless the lockdowns can slow the spread of Delta - and the government can get off its ass and get some quality vaccine over here - and soon.
The economy if fucked. No two ways about that. And everybody knows why. No confusion about that either. But sometimes in life happy-mediums just don't work. And, unfortunately, this is one of those times.
Not too many people were over-concerned about wild fires in California until the climate changes caused "Super spreaders" that were simply impossible to contain and crippled the State. This virus is the same. Right now it's being somewhat contained, but with this new variant, if it gets out-of-control (similar to the California wild fires), all those numbers that you guys are seeing can can be tossed right out the window. It would be a disaster.
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Re: Phuket Sandbox open; TAT awards “Amazing Dodgems” moniker
Animal husbandry is very extensive in Thailand and the farmers have cheap access to ivermectin which has been proven effective in reducing the virus loads in patients according to reports from around the world.
This therapy should be promoted while waiting for the vaccines from rich big pharmas to arrive as the population succumbs to the infection in bigger numbers.
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Re: Phuket Sandbox open; TAT awards “Amazing Dodgems” moniker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
christianpfc
Number of lives lost is insignificant, both for Thailand as well as worldwide. Similar numbers of people die from road accidents, smoking or drinking related diseases and other.
if you sit drinking and chatting with a friend for a few hours in a pub and he dies in a car accident on his way home this does not significantly change your, or your family members, or other friends you chatted to later that night, chances of dying in a car accident and deaths do not increase exponentially in this case, but if your friend is infected with Covid ... so we are not really comparing like with like here - communicable v's non-communicable diseases
I am not arguing that deaths from smoking, drinking, drug abuse, road accidents, etc are any less important than deaths from a new virus pandemic, but the tools to control, the timeframes to control, and the willingness of the government, the business community and the population, to implement the control tools differs for different situations
Quote:
Originally Posted by
christianpfc
Before the current outbreak in Thailand, there were more death from suicide for economical problems (due to Covid) than Covid
and during the current outbreak?
you can pick any limited timeframe in any specific country to prove any point you want to make, but for Thailand now to make decisions for the short term and long term future of the country looking at the broader international experience with what is afterall a global pandemic may be more useful
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Re: Phuket Sandbox open; TAT awards “Amazing Dodgems” moniker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bkkguy
we are not really comparing like with like here
Too damn right, the road deaths are worse, but policy ignores them !
Of the people I know who died with covid, one was dying anyway, caught covid in one of our NHS hospitals and is hence recorded as a covid death. The other was 94. Looking at the UK stats, this common.
Meanwhile the average age of road traffic deaths is likely to be well under 40.
Am not sure about other members, but I'd rather die a few weeks early from covid than have died in my 20s, 30s or 40s in a traffic accident.
Then the Thai road traffic deaths are every year. Unless there's a radical change in government policy, it will be 20,000 per year in 2030, whilst covid might be a distant memory.
Then, to cut the road traffic deaths requires much less damaging interventions, with almost no economic side effects.
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Re: Phuket Sandbox open; TAT awards “Amazing Dodgems” moniker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
goji
Of the people I know who died with covid, one was dying anyway, caught covid in one of our NHS hospitals and is hence recorded as a covid death. The other was 94. Looking at the UK stats, this common.
Meanwhile the average age of road traffic deaths is likely to be well under 40.
I for one totally fail to understand this odd desire to equate car accidents with covid. I realise that those in the debate are talking about deaths. But covid is far from all about deaths. It is about entire national and international economies. A car crash affects relatively few people. For the state, perhaps the time of a few cops, a few nurses and a doctor or two, and a company to tow away the wreck. Total cost to the state - not more than 50,000 baht.
This pandemic is affecting the lives and livelihoods of several millions of Thais and costing the country quite a large fortune. An entire industry that contributes something close to 20% of GDP is on life support. Top keep talking only about deaths is frankly nonsense.
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Re: Phuket Sandbox open; TAT awards “Amazing Dodgems” moniker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Armando
I for one totally fail to understand this odd desire to equate car accidents with covid. I realise that those in the debate are talking about deaths. But covid is far from all about deaths. It is about entire national and international economies. A car crash affects relatively few people. For the state, perhaps the time of a few cops, a few nurses and a doctor or two, and a company to tow away the wreck. Total cost to the state - not more than 50,000 baht.
This pandemic is affecting the lives and livelihoods of several millions of Thais and costing the country quite a large fortune. An entire industry that contributes something close to 20% of GDP is on life support. Top keep talking only about deaths is frankly nonsense.
That's his whole point. He thinks the lockdowns hurt more than they help, so we should all just fling the door open so everywhere in the world can get absolutely decimated like what happened in India a little while ago.
Then we can really get some strong varitans going...