-
Vaccination against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow
Vaccination (Sputnik V) against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow.
City offers free vaccination to everyone who wants + free additional health insurance in exchange to daily temperature measurement and reporting at next 3 months. Limitations: 18+, must live in Moscow, no pregnancy, no cancer, no flu right now and at past 2 weeks, no ready immunity to COVID. 60+ are allowed.
Vaccination will be provided in September for 40000 persons only (besides vaccination of medics and teachers) as a post-registration effectiveness test. City officially announced what vaccine is "totally safe for health".
https://www.mos.ru/city/projects/covid-19/vaccine/ (Rus lang)
-
Re: Vaccination against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow
...guess we will know within the next month or so if it works...and if it does Pattaya will be flooded with tourists once again...and just in time to escape the northern winter
-
Re: Vaccination against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow
Google Chrome does a very readable translation of the Russian site.
Here's an extract:
"Recruitment of applicants is underway
Become an applicant for a vaccine post-marketing clinical trial. We invite 40,000 people."
Note the use of the word "trial" and the sample size of 40,000 people.
This sounds rather like a phase 3 trial, like those which have been running for other vaccines for a few months.
I presume Mr Putin thinks it will be credible to describe the vaccine as "licensed" for his domestic audience, when all he's done is redefine "licensed" to a pre-phase 3 stage. The educated Russians will mostly see straight through this.
What we're NOT going to see is 10 million people vaccinated in October, as they're going to wait for some results from this trial just like with every other vaccine.
-
Re: Vaccination against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Moses
City officially announced what vaccine is "totally safe for health".
I hope nobody actually believes that. This is a phase 3 clinical trial, hence they can't say with confidence that is' safe, because they don't know.
Same bullshit as what the US and China are doing, rushing way too much, and may end up killing 20 million people in the process. I guess just today the CDC sent out urgent letters to all 50 states in the US telling them to ensure they have vaccination distribution centers 100% operational by Nov 1st, even if it requires bypassing some regulations and pre-cautions. What's really troubling about that is two of the vaccine candidates in the US are required to be transported and stored with dry ice at a temperature of -63C (-80F), so no idea how the US govt expects that to happen across all 50 states.
To each their own, but I'm waiting until proper phase 3 clinical trials are completed, the data is publicly available, and enough highly reputable doctors have have given it the green light before I take any vaccine. For example, they rushed a vaccine for the swine flu back in 2009, and a bunch of people ended up paralyzed due to taking it, and they're rushing the KoVid vaccine far more so.
We already have more than enough anti-vaxers (sp) in the world. Last thing we need is to fuck up a KoVid vaccine that gets widely distributed, then tons of people will stop taking all vaccines altogether, then we'll be in a real mess.
-
Re: Vaccination against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cdnmatt
I hope nobody actually believes that. This is a phase 3 clinical trial, hence they can't say with confidence that is' safe, because they don't know.
They know for sure - they have this vector since 2016: it is the same vector what been used in their already tested many times vaccine against Ebola. Only vector has influence on safety because it is live virus. Attached to it small part of killed COVID-19 virus can't be dangerous.
-
Re: Vaccination against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow
cdnmatt...u gotta be living under a rock if u think that the US or any western country is unable to keep "stuff" at -63 degrees and transport it...easy peasy...not even a challenge...
-
Re: Vaccination against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Moses
They know for sure - they have this vector since 2016: it is the same vector what been used in their already tested many times vaccine against Ebola. Only vector has influence on safety because it is live virus. Attached to it small part of killed COVID-19 virus can't be dangerous.
And yet EVERY covid vector vaccine is having small trial, followed by a large scale phase 3 style trial with tens of thousands of people. That includes the Russian vector vaccine.
The Russian phase 3 trial starts in September, so 3 months later than the UK vector vaccine.
What really counts is when a vaccine reaches the stage where it can be delivered to >> 100 million people in several countries. No vaccine is at that level yet.
-
Re: Vaccination against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
latintopxxx
cdnmatt...u gotta be living under a rock if u think that the US or any western country is unable to keep "stuff" at -63 degrees and transport it...easy peasy...not even a challenge...
Obviously, they can transport and store items at -63C, but not at that scale. It's not like every clinic out there has a freezer that can store hundreds of thousands of vials with dry ice at -63C.
330 million doses across all 50 states and cities? No, the US doesn't have that capacity.
-
Re: Vaccination against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Moses
Only vector has influence on safety because it is live virus. Attached to it small part of killed COVID-19 virus can't be dangerous.
your clinical evidence supporting this is?
because most of the studies I have seen from the attempts to develop human vaccines to the original human SARS virus and attempts in the veterinary field to develop vaccines for corona viruses in domesticated animals suggested the possibility of hypersensitivity to SARS-CoV components and other complications in vaccinated individuals when exposed to the virus in the community
and there is no lack of articles in the western medical literature about the disasters that have occurred with the rushed mass production and distribution of vaccines generally
and there is no lack of articles in the western medical literature recently about the possible adverse consequences specifically of rushing a SARS-CoV-2 vaccine, but I am sure you, and/or Putin and I suspect Donald Trump, have access to research and local expert opinion that I in my limited access in the west have no access to
-
Re: Vaccination against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bkkguy
but I am sure you, and/or Putin and I suspect Donald Trump, have access to research and local expert opinion that I in my limited access in the west have no access to
wow... how cheap you are... usually such behavior show rednecks from rural Russian forums... at rural Canadians forums are the same?
about topic: https://www.wsj.com/articles/russian...st-11599039001
-
Re: Vaccination against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow
I already have a number of subscriptions to internationally recognised news sources so I don't really want to take out a subscription to the Wall Street Journal just to read the article you have linked to - perhaps you could include one or two quotes from the article that specifically address your comment I queried above
also, I am not sure why you are asking me about rural Canadians forums - I am an Australian currently living in Bangkok posting on a Thailand oriented forum and have no experience of rural Canadians forums, or rural Russian forums for that matter, but I am not unfamiliar with typical "redneck" postings, and if you want to talk about "cheap" who introduced "redneck" into this discussion?
-
Re: Vaccination against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow
This will please ( and perhaps not surprise Moses) - but maybe will surprise / please / annoy a few others perhaps......
From a study just published by The Lancet - "Russia’s potential coronavirus vaccine shows ‘no serious adverse’ effects and creates antibody response
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/04/russian-coronavirus-vaccine-shows-no-serious-side-effects-lancet-says.html
Should be noted that the trial was only on 76 test patients so I guess the real test will be when it's realised to the mass public, but for now it's looking good.
-
Re: Vaccination against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow
Sorry I should have clarified on my above post - the article was IN the Lancet and it was merely quoting the results "as reported by several Russian Scientists" ( rather than the Lancet having carried out the tests themselves or reporting on that from tests being undertaken in another Country etc.
-
Re: Vaccination against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nirish guy
This will please ( and perhaps not surprise Moses) - but maybe will surprise / please / annoy a few others perhaps......
From a study just published by The Lancet - "Russia’s potential coronavirus vaccine shows ‘no serious adverse’ effects and creates antibody response
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/04/russian-coronavirus-vaccine-shows-no-serious-side-effects-lancet-says.html
Should be noted that the trial was only on 76 test patients so I guess the real test will be when it's realised to the mass public, but for now it's looking good.
This is not a great surprise, as Mr Putin would hardly be pushing the vaccine if the early phase trial results were poor.
They now need to do a large scale trial, as vaccines affect different people in different ways. That's why the Russians are organizing a phase 3 trial just like everone else who has had good results in the first stage.
I hope this vaccine succeeds.
However, it's just starting phase 3 trials and so far there are already 8 other vaccines at this stage.
-
Re: Vaccination against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow
Absolutely crazy mind you that the Worlds Governments and scientific bodies dont / can't get together on this to come up with ONE vaccine that WORKS - and yes certainly test run several others at the same time to give themselves a backup position if it doesn't. But to have all these various Countries competing AGAINST each other when they should all be working for the sake of mankind as a whole seems so wrong. But yes of course I'm fully aware that money talks and so it IS a race to the post to gain economic and political advantage etc but still, you'd think for once they could set that aside for the good of the rest of us ( and more importantly for those of use who NEED to travel again before we go stir crazy at home ! ) How very inconsiderate of them ! :)
-
Re: Vaccination against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow
I am positive the Russian vaccine will work. Donald Trump's continued good health is living proof that it works. I am sure that after Donald whispered Covfefe in Putin's ear, he was given a dose, and that explains how this a...... can get away with not wearing a mask.
-
Re: Vaccination against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow
u all gonna have to apologise to Moses...just saying...
-
Re: Vaccination against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow
It’s a lengthy article on why the Russian vaccine is probably safe but equally probably won’t work for many of us
https://arstechnica.com/science/2020...-early-trials/
-
Re: Vaccination against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nirish guy
Absolutely crazy mind you that the Worlds Governments and scientific bodies dont / can't get together on this to come up with ONE vaccine that WORKS - and yes certainly test run several others at the same time to give themselves a backup position if it doesn't. But to have all these various Countries competing AGAINST each other when they should all be working for the sake of mankind as a whole seems so wrong.
In most cases, they are not competing and there is an element of cooperation between many countries. Possibly less cooperation when the leaders are Putin and Xi, but otherwise there is cooperation.
Also, given the failure rate for vaccine development, I think it's a damn good idea that there are over a hundered of them under development (or whatever the figure is).
-
Re: Vaccination against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
goji
In most cases, they are not competing and there is an element of cooperation between many countries. Possibly less cooperation when the leaders are Putin and Xi, but otherwise there is cooperation.
or Trump as he has announced the US will not be joining COVAX, a global initiative aimed at working with vaccine manufacturers to provide countries worldwide equitable access to safe and effective vaccines, once they are licensed and approved - though to be fair "medical experts" don't necessarily all agree that COVAX's policies are the only, or even the best, ways of ensuring the most "equitable" distribution of vaccine doses! though Trump's response seems to be solely based on WHO involvement!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
goji
Also, given the failure rate for vaccine development, I think it's a damn good idea that there are over a hundered of them under development (or whatever the figure is).
one of the analogies I have seen is if you desperatly want a pizza delived within a very limited time frame ordering from multiple pizza places is more likely to ensure success - perhaps a bit simplistic because if a pizza from you preferred supplier arrives cold, half cooked or missing most of the toppings it is perhaps salvagable, but more of a problem for a vaccine that turns out to be not effective or causes serious side effects!
-
Re: Vaccination against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow
Alas that seems not to be the case perhaps .....
“U.S. says it won’t join WHO-linked effort to develop, distribute coronavirus vaccine”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...outputType=amp
-
Re: Vaccination against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bkkguy
one of the analogies I have seen is if you desperatly want a pizza delived within a very limited time frame ordering from multiple pizza places is more likely to ensure success
That's a fair analogy, however the probability of a pizza arriving is much higher than the probability of a vaccine succeeding, hence it's even more important to have multiple irons in the fire with the vaccine.
-
1 Attachment(s)
Re: Vaccination against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow
Sticker on the door of pharmacy in Moscow (in Russian): "Welcome to buy vaccine against COVID-19 here". As per local newspapers vaccine is in pharmacies since Monday September 7. I didn't check it myself.
Russian letters ДЗМ on the yellow plate with pharmacy name and working hours shows what this pharmacy is owned by city's departament of health (i.e. it is state owned pharmacy with fixed prices)
Attachment 10335
-
Re: Vaccination against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow
So they SELL the vaccine in parallell with running a phase 3 equivalent trial of 40,000 people ?
I suppose whatever Mr Putin wants happens.
-
Re: Vaccination against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
goji
So they SELL the vaccine in parallell with running a phase 3 equivalent trial of 40,000 people ?
I suppose whatever Mr Putin wants happens.
Yes. Phase 3 is about effectiveness, not about safety. State here warrants safety since this vector already been tested for 5+ years in SARS and Ebola vaccines. The only exclusions are kids and pregnant - this vector wasn't tested with them. People 60+ are welcome to phase 3 as well. Notes in boxes have words: "Safety: safe, effectiveness: unknown".
I think what in situation when owned by Moscow city manufacturing plant has power to produce 1.5 mln doses per month, they made small bunch of vaccine, but it was bigger than 40.000 for test, so they sell rest of the bunch via state pharmacies with warning "effectiveness unknown".
-
Re: Vaccination against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow
Criticisms have been made of the interpretation of the data that’s been presented - it doesn’t make sense:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/leahros...vaccine-trial/
-
Re: Vaccination against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
StevieWonders
Is it about that Lancet? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lancet#Controversies
-
Re: Vaccination against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow
"one of the analogies I have seen is if you desperatly want a pizza delived within a very limited time frame ordering from multiple pizza places is more likely to ensure success - perhaps a bit simplistic because if a pizza from you preferred supplier arrives cold, half cooked or missing most of the toppings it is perhaps salvagable, but more of a problem for a vaccine that turns out to be not effective or causes serious side effects!"
At least the pizzas are going in the oven now.
-
Re: Vaccination against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Moses
the paper published in The Lancet was not written by The Lancet, it was written by the actual Russian authors of the study, and the data in the paper was supplied and interpreted by these Russian authors, and it is this data and interpretation that is being questioned in the linked Forbes article
probably the closest match-case "Lancet controversy" from your linked Wikipedia article is the Study on hydroxychloroquine (2020), about a paper published in The Lancet - again not written by The Lancet but written by the actual authors of the study, and the data in the paper was supplied and interpreted by these authors, but after increasing questioning of the quality and relaibility of this data by other reviewers the paper authors, and eventually The Lancet, retracted the paper
I may be missing something obvious here, so perhaps you can explain why you think your linked Wikipedia article supports your case of supporting the Russian study while discrediting The Lancet, or is this just typical of the links you throw out hoping people won't read so they will still be swayed by your claims
if I was going to be "cheap' I would suggest posting these links on facebook or a rural forum in Russia or Canada ...
-
Re: Vaccination against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow
bkkguy,
I am puzzled by Moses' reply. Almost all Journals, not just the Lancet, are published this way. Are the Journals different in Russia or has the training of the FSB fallen to a new low?
-
Re: Vaccination against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow
I'm amazed at the arrogance of some ....refuse to believe that unless there is "westerrn" involvement or oversight that nothing gpod or reputable can come out of China or Russia.
-
Re: Vaccination against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
latintopxxx
I'm amazed at the arrogance of some ....refuse to believe that unless there is "westerrn" involvement or oversight that nothing gpod or reputable can come out of China or Russia.
Individuals and countries establish their credibility or otherwise over years. We trust statements from people or countries or institutions who have demonstrated their integrity over a period of time. I don't particularly trust my own law breaking British government and I certainly don't trust anyone associated with the Trump Government, but there are individuals and organisations in both countries, including some journalists, who have a record of accurate and factual reporting that is confirmed even in hindsight.
It's hard to say the same thing about Russia or China. Remember the Uighurs and the initial reporting of covid in China. Remember the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the shooting down of MH 17. What us, accusations are politically motivated!
You may even have noticed that the history of credibility or otherwise even applies to posters on anonymous forums. Perhaps you have some experience of this so can feel empathy with those who are not believed!
-
1 Attachment(s)
Re: Vaccination against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Brad the Impala
Remember the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the shooting down of MH 17.
1. USA spend almost whole sentury in wars and military conflicts none of which was on US land, none of which was defense, none of which was US busines, and none of which was at next to US country with which US has mutual border. I'm correct?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeli...ary_operations
Only at last 50 years:
Attachment 10336
2. US withdraw themself from Rome statut and not recognize international criminal court in Haaga because of intervention to Iraq. Now US demands to cancel any researches about roles of US military in Iraq and warning about sanctions to members of court in Haague.
Who are talking about "invasion" of Russians here?
Maybe you would like to talk about NATO member - Turkey - what has now half of Cyprus? Or maybe to talk about Israel and Syrian lands? Or Palestinian lands? Or maybe about Argentina, UK and Falkland Islands?
And about MH17: is it again British "higly likely"? No court decision exists yet.
-
1 Attachment(s)
Re: Vaccination against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Brad the Impala
We trust statements from people or countries or institutions who have demonstrated their integrity over a period of time.
Yes-yes. Oh, yes. Continue please. But please let me show you one photo before. And to remind list of members of invasion without UN decision and mandate: United States, United Kingdom, Australia, Poland, Italy, Netherlands
What about Russia? Russia blocked mandate of UN. Germany and France joined Russia.
Attachment 10337
-
Re: Vaccination against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow
Yet country after country after country lines up willingly to be a friend of the USA. The only countries Russia or China can count as friends are those they have bought or bullied.
-
Re: Vaccination against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow
Neither Russia nor China have any friends.
And Moses. Ah Yes, The UN. That august body of high esteem that saw fit to elect Tunisia, Chile, Uganda and Albania on to its Human Rights Comittee. Mmm.
-
Re: Vaccination against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
arsenal
Neither Russia nor China have any friends.
"Friends"? In geopolitic? Well, are we still in kindergarten?
There are no friends in politic, only allies and competitors. Now almost every media in world talking about Russia and China. For me that means what Russia and China are top competitors for many countries now. It is good: competition stimulates progress. Note: nobody talks about Gambia or Latvia - they aren't important in geopolitic.
When some politics starts to talk about "friends" I start to watch their hands more closely - at next step they will try to trick you or to ask for discount (in political meaning) or for something for free.
-
Re: Vaccination against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow
Maybe we should start a sub forum called Politics for these sorts of discussions ? As it can be a real downer on an already down gay board :-( I might be nice it it were a well run bar here where the two "not to be discussed" topics were religion and politics ( oh and of course the other third most obvious topic on a Thai board which is SO not to be spoken about I wont be mention it ! :)
Dont get me wrong too it is interesting sometimes reading all the differing views and basically reading us in the West saying Russia and China and "at it" and Moses then replying with "HA, you think we're bad, look at yourselves!" - and then both parties going on to throw a bit of mud to back that up. It is interesting though as it does show how we are ALL programmed to think our own Countries are basically the best / right etc, when in reality NONE of them are probably that great and all equally as bad as each other in various ways.
-
Re: Vaccination against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Moses
Who are talking about "invasion" of Russians here?
I assume you are not trying to claim that Russia didn't invade Ukraine and it is all a conspiracy spread by interfering westerners, so
I am not sure I am following the point you are trying to make here -
- a biblical "let he who is without sin cast the first stone"
- some other countries have done bad things as well, so this negates Russia's "badness" in invading Ukraine
-
Re: Vaccination against COVID starts at September 5 in Moscow
For some light relief and as tthe permanent tension here mirrors that in the real world may I recommend the following films.
The Journey.
A fictionalized journey taken together by Ian Paisley and Martin Mcguinness. Funny and brutal it pulls no punches for either side. A superbly comic portrayal of Tony Blair, part buffoon and part arch schemer. The accents might be hard for some of you to follow..
The Death of Stalin
Armando Iannucci's blisteringly funny satire set during the days after genial Uncle Joe drops dead. Stand out performances throughout it's a glorious ride through the pure paranoia of dictatorship.