Visa to the UK. Again

I appreciate that this subject has been raised before. Those who don't wish to help, please ignore this post rather than pointing out that this subject has been raised before.

I'm due to take P. to London next year and I'd be interested to hear any up-to-date information regarding visas....how long applications are currently taking, whether applications are being rejected and why and whether the numerous Pattaya businesses that claim to help are worth the money they charge- something which I doubt.

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Originally Posted by Oliver2

I'm due to take P. to London next year and I'd be interested to hear any up-to-date information regarding visas....how long applications are currently taking, whether applications are being rejected and why and whether the numerous Pattaya businesses that claim to help are worth the money they charge- something which I doubt.

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Any Thai agent offering to help you get a UK visa is basically offering to help you fill out the form. There is nothing they can do to enhance the applicant's ability to get a visa. The visa assessors will be looking at the applicant's links in the context of his likely return to Thailand from the UK, his means of support, savings, job and so on. The last person I helped was even married and leaving his wife behind while he visited his uncle for a couple of weeks as some sort of surety. However he had a low-paid job and he'd only been at his current employment for a couple of years. His application was rejected on the basis of "lack of evidence of intention to return to Thailand"

When I say "helped" I'm referring of course to a long distance help from my base here in Houston

My not get married would make it a lot easier.

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Originally Posted by Manforallseasons

My not get married would make it a lot easier.

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My view is that people who enter into a same-sex "marriage" are certifiably insane anyway so should automatically be refused a visa

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Originally Posted by frequent

My view is that people who enter into a same-sex "marriage" are certifiably insane anyway so should automatically be refused a visa

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is that re JUST same sex marriages or enter into ALL or any marriage ?

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Originally Posted by Manforallseasons

My not get married would make it a lot easier.

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There is no automatic right to visit as a spouse, gay or straight. If you are in a relationship that raises the question of why your partner would want to leave. As frequent says the main criteria for the granting of a visit visa are:

1. Is the visitor a potential overstayer, does he/she have a demonstrable job/home/wife/husband waiting for them in Thailand etc.
2. Does the visitor have sufficient resources to cover the cost of their stay.

Worth visiting this site, https://uklgig.org.uk and particularly the forum, for recent accounts of successful and unsuccessful experiences.

Depending on how long you want P to stay, I would recommend going for the Student Visa option on an EFL course. Say three months?

Good Luck.

Thanks. This confirms what I am discovering about the process.
P. will only be with me for a two week- plus holiday due to his responsibilities in Kamphaeng Phaet and so a six month visa will be fine.We had a chat with the manager of one of Pattaya's visa agencies yesterday and, to be blunt, there was nothing he said that suggested that his services were needed. The cost of such support, by the way, is nearly £1000.
One thing I did learn was that interviews are no longer required and have been replaced by finger-printing, something I experienced on arrival here three weeks ago. He suggested that the fact that I have been in a relationship for sixteen years is a positive, as is my continued and verifiable financial support.
I'm quietly confident (as football managers say) but P. is nervous about his treatment at Heathrow. I shall be with him on the plane but when he reaches Immigration of course we are separated. I spoke to one guy in Pattaya a few months ago who has married his Cambodian partner and travels to and from Asia regularly with him; he said that his partner is sometimes given a hard time. Naturally I've not told P. this but it's on my mind.

My bf has successfully applied for visas to the UK twice in the last 5 years

Unless he can convincingly show that he has every reason to return to Thailand the application is about you the sponsor not about him.

If no job then he can always say something such as "works on a market, cash in hand". If he has higher education and a good job to match all should be good.

You need to show you have a relationship over time and that you can fund all his needs on his visit. If you live in Thailand try and demonstrate that you have every intention of staying here and no intention of returning to live in the UK. A letter explaining that might suffice. There is no need to prime his bank account just for the visa.

The visa can be applied for up to 2 months before departure.

It took about 8 days to be notified last time.

On arrival in the UK he was asked if he was going to get married to me and his response got a laugh because he stated " no way, too many problems for that to happen!"

Of course if he had a UK visa before, this will be a piece of cake.

Thanks. All this info is helpful.

Regarding being given a hard time at Heathrow that is a definite possibility. However as you are travelling on the plane with him, and will likely pass through immigration more quickly, I found that it was worthwhile then loitering on the UK side behind the immigration officer of the queue that P is in, ready to step in. As happened a couple of times the officer noted the connection between me and BF and was happy for me to join to help answer questions.

I just always think that for those of a bullying tendency it does no harm to let them know that the visitor is not there alone.

Yes....that is indeed my intention There's no reason why I shouldn't remain in eye-contact with him. and make my presence as obvious as possible.

Why not just go through the foreign passport line with him? I can't see the immigration officers having a problem with that, as they're capable of admitting entry to a UK citizen as well.

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Originally Posted by cdnmatt

Why not just go through the foreign passport line with him?

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Exactly. While my partner and I have not entered the UK, we have entered the U.S. and European countries (Schengen) many times and we always step up to the Immigration counter together. We've never had an officer object.

In fact I think they prefer you go up together so they know who and what they’re dealing with.

Still pisses me off mind when on returning from a trip and we my Asian BF and I walk up to a UK passport control desk that after clearing me they then try to grill my bf, who has a full British passport too and STILL try to quiz him as if he’s some illegal immigrant trying to sneak in and beat the system or that I’m some sort of evil gang master trying to smuggle him in as forced labour or my sex slave ( I’d be so lucky :-) or that I’m in some way trying to bring him into the country under duress !

And it doesn’t help when to do his inherent nervousness of ANYONE in authority no matter what they ask he STILL ends up fluffing the answers and so makes us both look as guilty as hell. He’d better not ever loose his passport as he’d make a SHIT illegal immigrant being smuggled in that’s for sure ! :-)

I'd not thought of using the same Immigration desk as P....thanks for that.

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Originally Posted by Nirish guy

Still pisses me off mind when on returning from a trip and we my Asian BF and I walk up to a UK passport control desk that after clearing me they then try to grill my bf, who has a full British passport too and STILL try to quiz him as if he’s some illegal immigrant trying to sneak in and beat the system

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A friend of mine always plays dumb under those circumstances and keeps claiming he doesn't understand the question. Eventually they give up because they're not prepared to show open prejudice

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Originally Posted by Nirish guy

Still pisses me off mind when on returning from a trip and we my Asian BF and I walk up to a UK passport control desk that after clearing me they then try to grill my bf, who has a full British passport too and STILL try to quiz him as if he’s some illegal immigrant trying to sneak in and beat the system......

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If you are both hold UK passports, why not use the e-gates? Computers don’t tend to give attitude.

Oliver2 - sorry to say, but I think you are getting ahead of yourself worrying about what will happen at the passport control desk.

You started this thread asking for advice on obtaining a UK visa for a Thai national and of course I wish you the best of luck. But you have a few more hoops to jump through yet and I expect that when your bf finally gets his visa, it will fill him with confidence and the actual passage through immigration will be walk in the park..

Good luck!

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Originally Posted by MiniMee

If you are both hold UK passports, why not use the e-gates?

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Absolutely and where we're directed to or where we can we do, but alas egates aren't available at all airports yet ( like here in our home city) so sometimes it's still the old third degree for no particular reason, personally I treat such check points as a mere administrative annoyance and almost walk myself through barely stopping, but my bf doesn't yet have that confidence.

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Originally Posted by MiniMee

Oliver2 - sorry to say, but I think you are getting ahead of yourself

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I have to agree with MM here Oliver, I think you're thinking WAY to fay ahead in the process so far and if others experiences are anything to go by you've still a very big uphill task on your hands to even GET the visa and if you are successful then Passport control would be the LAST of my worries as by that point the decision to admit has already been made and all passport control are doing assuming that nothing is untoward is basically box ticking his arrival in to the Country when admitting your friend. GETTING the visa is the hard part, passport control is ( in my mind anyway) a total non issue almost.

As others have said the main task for you / him is to show sound reasons that he will return to Thailand ( good job, responsibilities at home, short dated return ticket - if you wanted to risk buying that ticket before getting the visa this is - personally I wouldn't as I think his chances may be slim depending on his circumstances). But hey you can only try, but others have tried before you and been turned down for little reason it seems, Meanwhile the UK certainly seems to be admitting just about ANYONE else these days EXCEPT cute Thai guys !! Talk about the system TOTALLY getting it wrong ! Just tell them he's a 35 year old Muslim Asylum seeker but pretending to be 14 with no papers and he should be fine it seems !

Best of luck anyway and do be sure to keep us all updated as to your progress ( and costs) just in case the "mood" has changed somewhere in government and it's now easier to bring friends from Asia ( but I doubt it unfortunately :-( )

Yes, it is fair comment to say that not even the first hurdle has been negotiated. You will appreciate that P and I have been talking about this a lot over the three weeks I've been with him here in Thailand; we are exploring process, consequences, potential problems, even whom he would meet and where we would go were the application to be successful. He is very excited and wants to talk but, at the same time, he recognises that he may be unsuccessful . As do I.

However, having discussed this with two successful applicants since I wrote my post, I'm at the stage where I'd be disappointed if he fails. The important considerations, as posted at the start of the thread, seem to be well-met....P's. life at home, his finances and his wish to return, my financial security and the sixteen-year length of our relationship.

I'm most appreciative of the advice I've received.

Adv I’m sure you already get it’s not so much his “wish” to return but more enough evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt of his likelihood of ACTUALLY returning that seems to be one of the key factors to them. Best of luck with it all anyway.

I see that as semantics. The point is that he will be in Thailand, three weeks after his proposed entry, whatever happens.

Sorry Oliver but from others experiences unfortunately it seems it’s not semantics but fact in that if fir ANY random reason the visa office ( or passport control guy) FEELS that there’s even the slightest risk that your friend won’t return as you plan then simplify on that basis alone, of a feeling or a hunch, they can and do reject the application it seems. Hence why I’m saying it’s important to get past and over that hump as quickly as possibly with them by showing where you can “reason” to return such as a long term job contract, running a family business and being required to be there or involving other family matters etc. Simply saying “well of COURSE he’s going back, you can see surely that he’s got a return ticket hasn’t he !” May not be enough to cut it and could leave him open to rejection. That’s not semantics, just other peoples experiences based over many years now it seems, so definitely something to help them feel comfortable about I would think rather than ignore. But, as they say in Thailand “up to you”.

All I can do is to help ensure that his application is as thoroughly prepared as possible, which is why I'm seeking advice and guidance months before it is due. And it's why I find your advice, and that of others, so helpful.

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Originally Posted by Oliver2

All I can do is to help ensure that his application is as thoroughly prepared as possible, which is why I'm seeking advice and guidance months before it is due.

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A good approach. I trust you are gathering info from various sources, including Thai Visa & perhaps some of the straight Thai forums.

I certainly tend to agree with previous sentiment about our immigration system letting in people from the more disruptive parts of the world whilst unnecessarily hindering low risk tourists from places like Thailand.

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Originally Posted by goji

I certainly tend to agree with previous sentiment about our immigration system letting in people from the more disruptive parts of the world whilst unnecessarily hindering low risk tourists from places like Thailand.

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When you say the "more disruptive parts of the world" are you meaning the places where there are wars, extreme poverty and little personal safety? These people are not applying for tourist visas, but as refugees, so there is little moral equivalence.

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Originally Posted by Brad the Impala

there is little moral equivalence.

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I was and will continue to see it as a practical issue ahead of a moral one.
SOME of the people from disruptive parts of the world import their disruption with them when they move to Europe & have presented a security risk They have also exhibited poor moral standards and a lack of tolerance over diversity issues and gay rights. We also have a moral obligation to protect our society and freedoms.

I don't see why they should be let in, whilst at the same time we are making it difficult for genuine low risk bona fide tourists from other poor parts of the world like Thailand and Cambodia.

There are all sorts of cases where people get confused over morals. For example, some are pacifist on moral grounds. This is very misguided and a fat lot of good if some dictator sends his tanks into your country. Practicality also needs to be considered.

It was certainly true of the British when we began building our empire in the 16th century. We killed off the Caribs with our syphilis, massacred African, Indians, Asians and Arabs for four hundred years, and still believe we have a god-given right to "intervene" when it suits our economy.
To be blunt, I don't think much of the behaviour in foreign climes of some of my countrymen today....in Portugal, for example. And as for our expats, there are fair number who are trying to escape the law. In Spain for example....and even a few in Pattaya.

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Originally Posted by Oliver2

It was certainly true of the British when we began building our empire in the 16th century. We killed off the Caribs with our syphilis, massacred African, Indians, Asians and Arabs for four hundred years, and still believe we have a god-given right to "intervene" when it suits our economy. To be blunt, I don't think much of the behaviour in foreign climes of some of my countrymen today....in Portugal, for example. And as for our expats, there are fair number who are trying to escape the law. In Spain for example....and even a few in Pattaya.

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As a matter of interest Oliver

• Did slavery and the slave trade exist in Africa before Whitey started importing slaves from Africa to the Americas?
• As for syphillis I take it you're not a believer in the Columbian hypothesis. Any particular reason apart from White Guilt?
• Any thoughts on why China has for millenia referred to itself as the "Middle Kingdom" and still behaves in that way?

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Originally Posted by Oliver2

It was certainly true of the British when we began building our empire in the 16th century. We killed off the Caribs with our syphilis, massacred African, Indians, Asians and Arabs for four hundred years, and still believe we have a god-given right to "intervene" when it suits our economy.
To be blunt, I don't think much of the behaviour in foreign climes of some of my countrymen today....in Portugal, for example. And as for our expats, there are fair number who are trying to escape the law. In Spain for example....and even a few in Pattaya.

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I agree entirely. The track record is not at all good. However, it is no reason to lose all common sense over current decisions.

Going forward, the UK should:
1 Think much more carefully before intefering in other countries affairs & on average, do much less of it. Syria, Libiya & Iraq were disasters.
2 Maintain a strong military for the defence of our country & collective defence of allies. Interfere much less abroad. However, disarmament would be completely potty, since we have threats like Russia & Iran, plus the UK would be a target for many nutty dictators because of our history over the last 300 years.
3 Consider national interest, security and cohesion of our society as the main considerations when controlling borders. STOP letting in "refugees" from regions where the track record of behaviour in our country is bad. By the way, if they are desperate to cross from a mostly civilized country like France to the UK, it is obvious we are making it way too welcoming here. Also, OPEN up the borders much more to tourists from countries like Thailand, etc, where visitors cause no significant trouble. Reduce visa costs for Chinese citizens etc.

I'm following this thread with interest as tourist visas to USA and UK have many similarities. Applicants to both must show a compelling reason to return, which means a demonstrable job (no working on the farm or the beauty salon), house/land with deeded property in his own name, substantial savings, credit cards. Obviously he would have a return ticket but red flags would be no hotel reservations in his name, no travel itinerary, he says he is staying with you, a family member or friend. There are Youtube videos on all this. Also consider a fiancee visa as the requirements are far less stringent and you go with him to the interview.