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More reflections on Boyztown's future
When I first arrived in Boyztown twenty-two years ago, it was predominantly British-owned, from Amor to Cafe Royal. Now, with the Prisma premises becoming part of an expanding Ambiance and Cafe Royal bought by BBB, it is predominantly Chinese. As many have pointed-out, the Asian market will soon be the major target for BT businesses and that market will not be gay in the sense that we consider the term.
One of the advantages of the British-connection was that the owners worked together for the success of the soi as a whole, recognising that a vibrant soi, bright, cheerful and busy, brought in custom that may spend money in different venues during the course of one evening. Furthermore, co-operation ensured that the lighting and signage was maintained and that, when Sunee was reeling from allegations of illegal activities, BT remained, relatively speaking, "clean."
There is no such mutual support now; the owners no longer meet and I've had the impression-an outsider's impression, admittedly- that it's every business for itself. I recall the effect of Copa's all-night street parties on other businesses, despite protestations from owners. And now , BBB points its outdoor loudspeakers at Cupidol and Pamorama, , not to entertain guests but to provide enjoyment for its own workers. Meanwhile, there is the concern expressed by some as to what the effect of LCR's business model will be on the soi as a whole.
Whoever owns the businesses, surely co-operation in maintaining BT as a whole is not impossible? BT was established by a group of people working together. In these difficult times, it needs to recapture that soi -identity....and, at the very least,the owners and managers need to talk with each other in the common interest.
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Re: More reflections on Boyztown's future
Another great post Oliver.
I read on GT that Big Boys (formerly 360 Degrees) are charging 360 baht for a shit show and dressed boys with a reported off fee of 800 baht before midnight.
Someone has obviously been into BBB and decided that they can copy the pricing structure. They simply don't know the three most important rules in that type of business. Location location, location. It will close again shortly after high season ends.
On my last visit I had a nice chat with Mr Speakeasy, the capped manager of BBB. I told him that there's nothing in his place for me now and at 350 baht a drink it simply isn't worth the money.
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Re: More reflections on Boyztown's future
I vaguely remember a racist joke on Jewish and Chinese businessmen. Jewish A opens a gas station and attracts good business, Jewish B sees the traffic and opens a mini-mart nearby, Jewish C sees the crowd and opens a restaurant next to B. The location becomes more prosperous and good business for everyone.
Chinese A opens a gas station at a similar intersection and attracts good business. Chinese B comes along and opens one too but charging patrons 10cents less per litre. Chinese C then opens one himself and charging 20 cents less than B. Eventually everyone loses money and closes all shops. They are a determined bunch nevertheless and decides to repeat the same cut-throat practices elsewhere.
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Re: More reflections on Boyztown's future
Oh Lord, that is so true...a Jew would never undercut another...too clever for that...imagine the scandal at the schul...
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Re: More reflections on Boyztown's future
You can easily look at it another way. In the 1990s Boystown as it then was - before the S was transmogrified into a Z - was operating as a cosy cartel. While the owners may well have used their meetings to discuss street lighting, does anyone also doubt that they were simultaneously agreeing to fix - and not to undercut each other on - prices for drinks and off fees?
Today, however, there is, as noted above, a changed and more competitive environment. A smaller number of punters have more options (e.g. internet sources) on how to find boys without having to pay 350B for a drink. Therefore it's become a case of every business for itself.
With the end of the 1990s cosy cartel, it ought to be expected that increased competition between businesses would drive prices down and so customers would get better deals. This, however, is Thailand where its bizarre brand of capitalism tends to respond to falling sales by increasing prices!
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Re: More reflections on Boyztown's future
Quote:
Originally Posted by
latintopxxx
Oh Lord, that is so true...a Jew would never undercut another...too clever for that...imagine the scandal at the schul...
Ah, racism alive and well on Sawatdee.
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Re: More reflections on Boyztown's future
dont be silly...its only racist if it is negative...not when u praise someone/race/people
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Re: More reflections on Boyztown's future
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kjun12
Ah, racism alive and well on Sawatdee.
What are you talking about, latintopxxx is Jewish, how can he be racist?
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Re: More reflections on Boyztown's future
When new le cafe opens, it may change the Soi, if it opens as karaoke or any kind of live music. Thais do only one kind of live music, very loud.
Even during the last year of previous le cafe, a show bar, it was difficult to sit anywhere near le cafe. The stupid drag show with volume cranked to the max, absolutely empty bar, only staff watching the "show".
Across from le cafe, at Ambiance even wearing headphones didn't help, it is impossible to listen to my own player with oversize headphones, only with ear canal IEM, in ear monitors, I managed to sit at Ambiance terrace through the show. It was difficult to even talk when show was on. It didn't help that around same time, every night similar drag show started at what used to be Copa, so sitting at Ambiance, you had unbearable noise coming from left and right. Former Copa had at least customers watching the show, le cafe was consistently dead.
It's puzzling who these drag shows are meant for. No one seems to like them, gay guys like men, we don't like women, so why would we need a show with groups of woman screaching away? I asked this from every gay friend at Soi, no one says they like it. But bars are almost on auto pilot - let's open a gay bar, and OF COURSE we shall have drag shows.
Maxis at Soi Twilight is excellent example what most people really want, but places like this are rare, there are almost none, Ambiance terrace the only place like this in Boyztown.
I bet le cafe will be noisy, and if live show, or karaoke will be zero interest for westerners. Maybe Chinese, but so far Chinese are not visiting Boyztown in large numbers, they only go to few gogo's.
But on other hand, Ian's and Robby's later years le cafe, restaurant was dead, day or night. In 2003 it was still super busy, after Panorama and gogos closed at 1am, everybody went to let cafe, with hotel, and bar was not subject to 1am law, bar was open 24hr. There were foreigners, hustlers, everybody was happy.
By 2006 it was getting quiet, bars were allowed to open after 1am, Panorama remained very popular, and there was really no point for le cafe to exist. Night after night empty tables on terrace, bored staff hanging around.
It's difficult to predict what would work for that location, a proper night club would be a guaranteed hit, but zoning doesn't allow it. Karaoke? Don't think so!
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Re: More reflections on Boyztown's future
Unlike any other bar LCR can open up completely or close up. Therefore they could actually combine the showbar with a genuine go go bar and a more risque show and alter the feel throughout the night. The dreadful lip synching dhows seem to be what the dancers want to do rather than what customers want to see.
The only lip synching I've ever seen that was enjoyable was in Castro. Some huge granny stood in a large plastic boat and mimed to My Heart Will Go On. It was hilarious and everyone enjoyed it's ridiculousness. More of that would be great.
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Re: More reflections on Boyztown's future
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kjun12
Ah, racism alive and well on Sawatdee.
FAIR WARNING!: Batten down the hatches ... "off topic" is about to annoy yo'all)
Nonsense re "racism".
But then there is "dumb ass", and that's well covered by kjun. As usual.
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Re: More reflections on Boyztown's future
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DoubleDutch
When new le cafe opens, it may change the Soi, if it opens as karaoke or any kind of live music. Thais do only one kind of live music, very loud.
Even during the last year of previous le cafe, a show bar, it was difficult to sit anywhere near le cafe. The stupid drag show with volume cranked to the max, absolutely empty bar, only staff watching the "show".
Across from le cafe, at Ambiance even wearing headphones didn't help, it is impossible to listen to my own player with oversize headphones, only with ear canal IEM, in ear monitors, I managed to sit at Ambiance terrace through the show. It was difficult to even talk when show was on. It didn't help that around same time, every night similar drag show started at what used to be Copa, so sitting at Ambiance, you had unbearable noise coming from left and right. Former Copa had at least customers watching the show, le cafe was consistently dead.
It's puzzling who these drag shows are meant for. No one seems to like them, gay guys like men, we don't like women, so why would we need a show with groups of woman screaching away? I asked this from every gay friend at Soi, no one says they like it. But bars are almost on auto pilot - let's open a gay bar, and OF COURSE we shall have drag shows.
Maxis at Soi Twilight is excellent example what most people really want, but places like this are rare, there are almost none, Ambiance terrace the only place like this in Boyztown.
I bet le cafe will be noisy, and if live show, or karaoke will be zero interest for westerners. Maybe Chinese, but so far Chinese are not visiting Boyztown in large numbers, they only go to few gogo's.
But on other hand, Ian's and Robby's later years le cafe, restaurant was dead, day or night. In 2003 it was still super busy, after Panorama and gogos closed at 1am, everybody went to let cafe, with hotel, and bar was not subject to 1am law, bar was open 24hr. There were foreigners, hustlers, everybody was happy.
By 2006 it was getting quiet, bars were allowed to open after 1am, Panorama remained very popular, and there was really no point for le cafe to exist. Night after night empty tables on terrace, bored staff hanging around.
It's difficult to predict what would work for that location, a proper night club would be a guaranteed hit, but zoning doesn't allow it. Karaoke? Don't think so!
An excellent potted history of Boyztown from someone who has only been with us less than a year and only been posting 4 months. Long term lurker, or very long term lurker...or someone else?
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Re: More reflections on Boyztown's future
And tonight Family Mart on corner of 2nd road and Boyztown closed down, Thai lady outside said "Finiit".
Let's hope Chinese bought this as well, and are opening gay Gogo bar, right on Second Rd, excellent walk in traffic :)
Attachment 8281
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Re: More reflections on Boyztown's future
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gerefan2
An excellent potted history of Boyztown from someone who has only been with us less than a year and only been posting 4 months. Long term lurker, or very long term lurker...or someone else?
I think ... not fair at all.
A new-ish member to Sawatdee shouldn't be tagged with insinuations simply because of that. From what I've read he's a thoughtful contributor.
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Re: More reflections on Boyztown's future
Fuck that's annoying. That shop was very useful. Let's hope it re-opens as a 7-11. Those two operate as a cartel with virtually identical products and pricing which I actually really like.
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Re: More reflections on Boyztown's future
Quote:
Originally Posted by
arsenal
Fuck that's annoying. That shop was very useful. Let's hope it re-opens as a 7-11. Those two operate as a cartel with virtually identical products and pricing which I actually really like.
Not necessary Arsenal. There is a 7/11 right opposite!
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Re: More reflections on Boyztown's future
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Re: More reflections on Boyztown's future
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gerefan2
An excellent potted history of Boyztown from someone who has only been with us less than a year and only been posting 4 months. Long term lurker, or very long term lurker...or someone else?
You seem to believe that visiting Boyztown regularly since 2003 requires SGT membership.
I imagine you gave it some thought, before clicking "Post Reply", yes?
So the only explanation is that you are unusually thick.
In my 4 months of actively posting here, I have yet to come across a post from you, that has anything to add to conversation. So I have ignored your posts, not exactly difficult thing to do.
Gerefan2, please don't ask me personal questions, I don't know you, and I don't want to know you. Asking personal questions from total stranger is considered rude, you will never catch me asking about your life, and your history in Pattaya. Wanna know why that is? Cos I don't know you, and I feel I'm in no position to ask you about personal stuff. More importantly, I don't want to know you.
Perhaps you should go back and count the days I've been member here, whatever you do to fill your days, but please, no more personal questions, ok? And if possible, no more stupid questions! It's not going to work out between you and I, you need to look for friends some place else.
Are you Chinburi immigration? No? Fuck off, then! Go to your Double Shot, enjoy your evening, try not to bother strangers! Basic stuff, really.
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Re: More reflections on Boyztown's future
I think I like DD...kicking arse like theres no tomorrow
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Re: More reflections on Boyztown's future
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DoubleDutch
In my 4 months of actively posting here, I have yet to come across a post from you, that has anything to add to conversation. So I have ignored your posts, not exactly difficult thing to do.
.
Thank you. Very familiar wording indeed...
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Re: More reflections on Boyztown's future
Quote:
Originally Posted by
latintopxxx
I think I like DD...kicking arse like theres no tomorrow
Yes, he's a plain-speaking guy who's chosen the least appropriate pseudonym I can think of...
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Re: More reflections on Boyztown's future
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gerefan2
...or someone else?
I just assumed that that was taken as read by most already.......
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Re: More reflections on Boyztown's future
Getting back to LCR. This could be worse than you think. Its quite likely that they will have an open mike. That is, any drunk Chinese guy can get up and scream into the microphone at full volume. This will be relayed right down the soi.
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Re: More reflections on Boyztown's future
so what annoys u...the chinese factor...or the screaming??? u do realise that u come across as very racist!? Not a nice look. Chinese are also people...np reason to demean or demonise them....
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Re: More reflections on Boyztown's future
Don't waste your time playing the liberal here Latin. You lived in China for eight years (Wuxi, I believe) so you know what I'm talking about. Is that the sort of entertainment you enjoy?
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Re: More reflections on Boyztown's future
i just dont enjoy the way the word Chinese is always woven negatively into a post...
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Re: More reflections on Boyztown's future
like cant u pick on someone your size...
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Re: More reflections on Boyztown's future
I agree the mainstream Chinese travelers are a bit of a horror.
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Re: More reflections on Boyztown's future
Pattaya evolves, according to which tourist segment has the money.
Presumably a weak pound curtails British tourism & investment in loss making gogo bars to an extent. Meanwhile, after decades of selling us all sorts of manufactured goods, China has a large middle class & Thailand is one of the convenient travel destinations for them. I suspect these trends have further to run.
As for us. We have the choice between the excess noise in Boyztown, or the adjacent sois, the remains of Sunnee & Jomtien. It's an exercise in voting with our feet.
One day, of course, perhaps Thailand might introduce some fair noise control legislation and have police who are fit to enforce it. Flying pigs will come first.
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Re: More reflections on Boyztown's future
They have actually Goji. A couple of years back many areas were full of those 'pop up' bars that would blare out impossibly loud music all night. They've all gone now. The police got rid of them.
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Re: More reflections on Boyztown's future
Quote:
Originally Posted by
arsenal
Don't waste your time playing the liberal here Latin.
What has being a liberal or conservative got to do with being a racist? You can be politically conservative and not a racist or a liberal with latent racist views whicch tend to rear their ugly heads on anonymous boards like this. Plenty of that going on now on the gaythailand.com forum viz a viz Arabs, Indians and Chinese. I'm sure most of the posters expressing racist views see themselves as liberal in the sense that they support marriage equality, abortion, social welfare, big government, etc.
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Re: More reflections on Boyztown's future
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Re: More reflections on Boyztown's future
As Sglad has pointed out albeit in a roundabout way, there is no definitive meaning of the word 'liberal'. Therefore my use of it was entirely correct. Political terms such as conservative, democratic etc. have no single agreed meaning.
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Re: More reflections on Boyztown's future
oh fuck....its a bad day...again im nodding in agreement with arsenal...what is this??? am i being trolled!!?!
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Re: More reflections on Boyztown's future
Quote:
Originally Posted by
latintopxxx
sglad has a brain
No, not really. Using "vis a vis" in a sentence is unnecessary, it is pretensious, it is used to impress dumb audience, because to dumb people it sounds foreign, thus sophisticated.
Besides, our brilliant 25 year old world traveller from Singapore typed viz a viz, it is vis a vis lol.
One should use French, or foreign language when there is no English word for it, but there is - via a vis is French for in regard to" or "compared to,". Sglad wanted to impress you, latintopxxx, I'm not sure if you should be flattered, or offended.
https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/vis-a-vis:
"Technically that "a" in vis-a-vis is an "à" as the phrase translates literally from the French for "face to face." There's a slightly pedantic ring to the term vis-a-vis so use it with caution. It's more a term that might be used in a newspaper article or academic treatise, and something best avoided in speech altogether, unless you're deliberately aiming for comic effect."
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Re: More reflections on Boyztown's future
Quote:
Originally Posted by
arsenal
They have actually Goji. A couple of years back many areas were full of those 'pop up' bars that would blare out impossibly loud music all night. They've all gone now. The police got rid of them.
Well, that's a start. There are still places which have the occasional event with outdoor music at loud volume. Going on until some obscene hour.
It would be better still if anyone living nearby can call the noise control department, or the police and have music shut down within 30 minutes, then add large fines for any repeat of the offence.
Priorities seem a bit twisted if anyone can play loud music in the street, even all night, yet they can regulate harmless indoor activity which doesn't harm anyone else, such as stage dancing, AKA gogo bars.
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Re: More reflections on Boyztown's future
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DoubleDutch
No, not really. Using "vis a vis" in a sentence is unnecessary, it is pretensious, it is used to impress dumb audience, because to dumb people it sounds foreign, thus sophisticated.
While on the subject of spelling errors, you do mean, pretentious? :devilsh:
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Re: More reflections on Boyztown's future
I agree with goji but there's one aspect that seems particularly true of Boyztown's recent history. The Copa all night parties of a few years ago were for the benefit of a handful at the expense of the many, whose evenings and nights were disrupted. LCR's karaoke nights (and mornings) of a couple of years back featured an even smaller group of drunken guys bellowing into their microphones while the rest of us were denied sleep. And now BBB's outdoor parties for their staff now dominate the Panorama corner and make conversation nigh- on impossible.
What's wrong with doors? twenty years ago, there was loud music in many more venues but it was not disruptive because the doors were kept shut.
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Re: More reflections on Boyztown's future
funny...every now and then we get a whole lot of propaganda about thailand and Buddhism and karma and how peaceful and welcoming and nice and looking after the poor and accommodating and considerate the whole society is...unlike the nasty christian western world they come from...so whats gone wrong here??/
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Re: More reflections on Boyztown's future
Boyztown like Soi Twilight is all but gone as is Sunee and Chiang Mai....only Jomtien Complex thrieves with farangs 60+ and fem boys with the exception of 3 bars with Cambodian boys....this too shall change as immigration is only offering the Cambodians at this moment 2 week visas.