A few reflections on my return to Pattaya

For the second time, P and I spent a few days in the Jomtien Complex. Although the number of visitors was low, and not just gay ones judging by the small numbers of guests in our hotel, the guys in the host bars were there in abundance, as were the masseurs. Good humour and friendliness all around us, despite what must be trying times.

A word of commendation for Dick's Cafe; good food at a reasonable price and with cheerful service.

Moving onto Boyztown last evening, again the number of visitors was disappointing. We noticed in the Royal Garden area that there seemed to be many more Indians and, perhaps fewer Chinese than when we were here in June. Another thread has dealt with the current issues relating Chinese tourism so I'll say no more.

It was sad to see that two premises that once housed stalwarts of Boyztown's better days, Oscar's and Prisma/Funnyboys, are still closed. On the other hand, Le Cafe Royal will soon be up-and-running. I'm told that 50m baht has been spent on refurbishment and, from what I could see, the interior looks very smart.

The owners ( whom I heard to be the same as BBB) were trying- out its sound system in the late afternoon/ early evening. It was overwhelming, particularly with the doors open. The venue is allegedly planning to operate until 0200 and other businesses are concerned that the level of noise will drive customers away from other bars and, of course, the hotels. So I hope the doors will be kept closed so that the needs of those of us who like to have a drink with our boyfriends, or just chat....or even sleep, will be respected.

More investment in Boyztown is welcome. With money being spent on Ambiance and this new music venue (it includes, God help us, karaoke) I hope that the two venues I mentioned earlier can also be sold. I suspect that the coming High Season will be even more important than usual.

Nice report Oliver. If the new owners of Cafe Royal are indeed the people behind BBB can we ecpect guys in their 40s masquerading as go go boys and extortionate pricing?

I'd be interested to learn what the business model is. I haven't been in BBB for fifteen years- not my cup of green tea- but it's popular. Do the owners expect the New Cafe Rpyal to attract the same market? One of the other BT managers to whom I spoke yesterday said that there'd be live music- electric guitars were thumping away in practice sessions yesterday- plus a DJ in between acts, or whatever they're called, that the karoake will be in a sound-proofed room, and that there will be some sort of show. I assumed this means something similar to the ladyboy shows we all know and....well, some of us anyway....love.
Will live acts attract a non-gay audience? Or a younger audience, if one exists in Pattaya?
I make no secret of my aversion to the sort of thumping music that can be heard across the entertainment venues of Pattaya, and if the comforts and coziness of my evenings and nights with P are disturbed, that aversion turns quickly to fury.....but I do want the new venture to be a success and help to revitalise Boyztown.

Yes. I suspect that all of us who go and play in Pattaya would prefer an open venue that sometines annoys us to a closed empty space.

Which is not the case here where a few closed and empty spaces would be most welcome. Haha. No names required methinks.

Quote from Oliver2:
I'd be interested to learn what the business model is. I haven't been in BBB for fifteen years- not my cup of green tea- but it's popular. Do the owners expect the New Cafe Rpyal to attract the same market? One of the other BT managers to whom I spoke yesterday said that there'd be live music- electric guitars were thumping away in practice sessions yesterday- plus a DJ in between acts, or whatever they're called, that the karoake will be in a sound-proofed room, and that there will be some sort of show. I assumed this means something similar to the ladyboy shows we all know and....well, some of us anyway....love.

The money going into Café Royal is believed to be Chinese. Ownership of BBB and café Royal is the same.
Hence I suspect that the business model will be aimed at Chinese customers.
Look at BBB, many Chinese people going in, many female. Announcements in Chinese.
Falang customers in there are almost an endangered species.
So at café Royal, what is offered may not appeal to falangs, who, let's face it, are a fading part of the market these days.

Chinese interests appear to be attempting to buy up most (all?) of the businesses in Boyztown and establish a stranglehold on the market.

At present they own Le Cafe Royal, Boyzboyzboyz and the Ambiance. The Swiss guy I was talking to on the verandah of the Ambiance told me that the owner of Copa is still trying to hold on to his business, but at the end of the day, money talks. Perhaps he is holding out for a better offer.

So the Chinese market will be almost fully catered for in that soi - a show bar tame enough to suit the sensibilities of the ladies, an exclusive karaoke club and a refurbished, rather more up-market hotel. Even a gogo bar to cater to the horny gay males. All they need to do is bus them all in every night then sit back and count the profits.

As a farang the soi no longer interests me.

Well I genuinely don't know what you're gonna do then a447 because if BT doesn't interest you any more (or at least that Soi), if Sunee is on its last legs (as it surely is), and if Jomtiem continues to have no gogo but only beer bars which have been described as "all the same" and a hotel/entertainment venue that's been up for sale for months - then it really doesn't augur well for your future enjoyment or for the enjoyment of most others, to be honest.

Take into account that the gay scene in Phuket is a shadow of what it used to be, that CM as a gay centre is (and was always) shite, and that nobody really knows whats going on with the horrendously expensive BKK scene, it leaves only the Soi of Sleaze - featuring Golden Cock and a couple of others.

May as well stay home and spend that £4K holiday trip money on local boys from Grindr etc - the availability of which is often overlooked?

:p

If I didn't have Nom waiting for me in Pattaya I'd only make short trips to visit Goodboys, Niceboys and Eros.

When I'm with Nom I don't go to any gay establishments.

The "app scene" is flourishing....and perhaps this is a big part of the problem. There's also the fact that we older gentlemen who ploughed money into the bars twenty years ago are likely to have settled down with one guy....or to have passed away and not be replaced.

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Originally Posted by scottishguy

Take into account that the gay scene in Phuket is a shadow of what it used to be, that CM as a gay centre is (and was always) shite, and that nobody really knows whats going on with the horrendously expensive BKK scene, it leaves only the Soi of Sleaze - featuring Golden Cock and a couple of others.

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Utter rubbish, as usual, spouted by the infamous wannabe who has no relevant first-hand experience upon which to base his assertions.

The Phuket gay scene is alive and vibrant, but no longer revolving around old-school closed-front go-go bars like Uncle Charlie’s, Young Shark and SuperBoy which have indeed long since passed. But there are still 3 such venues: MyWay/Yes in its new location, Mo2 and of course Passport. The scene is now out in the open across the Soi and centered around the likes of Zag, BoatBar, Sundowners and Connect. There are even several ‘rub and tug’ massage houses like Naka, Blue Dolphin and Aquarius to add a further dimension.

As for the “horrendously expensive BKK scene”, those of us who actually visit do know that Soi 2, Soi 4 and successful bars like Jupiter, Moonlight and DreamBoys are all crowded with young Asian customers coming from Singapore, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Taipei and Seoul where they are used to paying $10~15 per drink in a bar anyway and are happy to do so in Bangkok. ฿350~500 might be seem expensive compared to a pint of Punk at Sir John Moore Weatherspoons at Glasgow Central, but they cater to a different demographic.

I said that the Phuket scene is a mere shadow of what it was - not that there wasn't one - and I suspect very few on this board give a flying fuck that "young Asian customers from Singapore" are happy to pay £10 for a beer or a Pineapple juice, just to watch some tired old cock show that we've all seen ad nauseam

On the bright side you got a "like" from Arsenal the clapping seal - which is surely the worst possible response to a post that anyone would wish for - be a sport and throw him another fish as his total irrelevance these days is killing him

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Originally Posted by MiniMee

Utter rubbish, as usual, spouted by the infamous wannabe who has no relevant first-hand experience upon which to base his assertions.

The Phuket gay scene is alive and vibrant...

But there are still 3 such venues: MyWay/Yes in its new location, Mo2 and of course Passport

There are even several ‘rub and tug’ massage houses like ..

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Utter rubbish, huh? Phuket gay scene "vibrant"? LOL.

Are you being sarcastic, or do you really believe Phuket bar scene is vibrant? If you call that vibrant, then Sunee in Pattaya can be described as flourishing and explosive.

As for Bangkok, I visit city about twice a month, I have foreigners friends there, non of us goes to Soi Twilight gogo bars, Westerners go to Banana and other places to sit, eat and socialize at Twilight, but other than occasional clueless Western tourist, no farang visits Soi Twilight gogo bars regularly.

You mentioned what a great success Dream Boys is, true, but only for Asian visitors, mainly Chinese. Since SGT is English speaking board, and most posters are Westerner, it is fair assessment that Bangkok gogo scene is useless to us. Now, you can argue that it is wonderful for Chinese tourists, and you'd be correct, but we are not Chinese. Bangkok foreigners who I know well travel to Pattaya often, and usually for one specific reason - gay gogo bars. So when someone says that Bangkok gogos are useless, they are 100 percent right.

What else, lets see. Yes yes, there are 3 (THREE!!) gay massage joints in Phuket, vibrant indeed!

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Originally Posted by MiniMee

As for the “horrendously expensive BKK scene”, those of us who actually visit do know that Soi 2, Soi 4 and successful bars like Jupiter, Moonlight and DreamBoys are all crowded with young Asian customers coming from Singapore, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Taipei and Seoul where they are used to paying $10~15 per drink

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Seems you agree with Scottish- guy, what exactly are you arguing? You are making his point, and you don't seem to realize it.

Chiang Mai has no gay scene to speak of, same goes for Phuket. Bangkok gogo scene was great 10 years ago, now useless to most expats and visiting Westerners, other than few noobs. What Bangkok still has going is lively Silom soi 4, touristy but still allright, and soi 2 with Station and many cool bars.


Since the topic is hooking up with Asians in Thailand, only Pattaya is still a place to visit gogo bars for hook up. Few noob Westerners in Dream Boys at soi Twilight is no way indication how great Bangkok gogo scene is. Gogo scene in Bangkok blows, and everybody knows it. I live here, that takes away your trump card "Haha, you don't even live here"

Hooking up, gay and straight has moved to apps, not just Thailand, in every place on Earth.

I was going to write recap, but there is no need when someone already has, and said it better than I could:

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Originally Posted by scottish-guy

Take into account that the gay scene in Phuket is a shadow of what it used to be, that CM as a gay centre is (and was always) shite, and that nobody really knows whats going on with the horrendously expensive BKK scene, it leaves only the Soi of Sleaze - featuring Golden Cock and a couple of others.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by scottish-guy

On the bright side you got a "like" from Arsenal the clapping seal - which is surely the worst possible response to a post that anyone would wish for

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Clapping seal, I never seen a clapping seal, ever!
Did you mean a real seal, the cute sea creature? Did you mean "flapping", maybe?
I would very much like to see a cute, clapping seal. Do you think you could convince your friend Arsenal, to show how it's done?

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Originally Posted by DoubleDutch

Clapping seal, I never seen a clapping seal, ever!
Did you mean a real seal, the cute sea creature? Did you mean "flapping", maybe?
I would very much like to see a cute, clapping seal. Do you think you could convince your friend Arsenal, to show how it's done?

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I always aim not only to please, but to educate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Wxh9uVOS-Q

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Originally Posted by scottish-guy

I always aim not only to please, but to educate:

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OMG OMG OMG they are so cute!


This is what SGT is all about, a place for education, a place for a man to grow emotionally!
I learn so much here, almost every day! Thank you!

I'm now considering a seal as a support, and comfort animal for long flights, I was set on getting a baby racoon, but it's clear now that seal is my comfort animal.

Seals are in many ways 180 degree opposite of Paborns, seals are soothing, loving creatures. I feel calmer already, just by looking at these magnificent creatures!

In your home video that you posted, which one is Arsenal?

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Originally Posted by DoubleDutch

This is what SGT is all about, a place for education, a place for a man to grow emotionally!
I learn so much here, almost every day! Thank you!

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Can we take that as YOUR SEAL ...... of approval then DD !? :-)

If anyone would like to send me some fish I'd prefer turbot, mackerel, tuna or giant shrimp. No sprats thank you as we're fully stocked with those.

Loving the cut of your jib DD.

For those who were earlier discussing Phuket and as to whether or not it was still vibrant as it used to be etc I've posted the pic below which has just been posted on facebook by a Thai (bar) friend of mine to another Thai guy, with a comment added saying "Patong Phuket used to be the future of many people" - the implication being "awww so sad compared to what it used to be I'm guessing" - so even the Thai's are aware of it's gentle decline it seems.

I would also add that I was there both 10 years ago and also 4 months ago and both he (a nd the posters above) are generally right that it certainly wasn't what it was before, but saying that where is these days - but just to fair to the place there is still some life about it ( albeit with too many straight people now in the clubs when I was there) but it certainly wasn't as "vibrant" as I remember it once was perhaps.

Also for the sake of fairness and accuracy the place WAS a lot busier than the pic below suggests and I was going to say perhaps it was taken at 5 in the morning or something, but as I see a group of guys at the end of the Soi where the old Boat bar /club used to be and it appears to be open then maybe not !? But in case anyone is thinking of going don't worry it wasn't as quiet as this pic suggests perhaps ( MAYBE !?).

Attachment 8280

My first visit to Phuket was in 1997; at that time, I knew Boyztown and nowhere else in Thailand. I thought Patong a dump- shabby, uninteresting and its gay area boringly quiet compared to Pattaya. Admittedly it was low season...but a week later I was in Pattaya and relieved to be based in a an area that was vibrant. I've returned to Phuket on four or five occasions since and my opinion of Patong hasn't changed.

We concur on that Oliver2 - however whilst Patpong centre is a dit of a dump etc I would add if anyone is thinking of taking a trip that direction that the WHOLE point of going there isn't ( or shouldn't) be to see Patong or the small gay area BUT to get OUT of Patong and hit the islands and surrounding areas there which ( when not crowded and boats aren't sinking) are fabulous and well worth seeing - certainly still not as breath taking as Vietnam but still worth getting up out of bed early for and going and seeing (IMHO).

Oh gosh! I was planning a couple of nights in Jomtien (Zing) in a week’s time and a visit to Winner in Sunnee to find a twink willing and able... now i’m all confused. Will I find a boy willing let alone able?

i agree with NIrish ; Phuket has some beautiful parts and some worthwhile trips. I prefer Krabi however, which makes no pretense of having a gay scene. In fact, when P and I have been there, on four occasions, we have been the "only gays in the village" as far as we could see.

Wheelz will enjoy Zing. The host bars in Jomtien Complex are crowded with twinks, predominantly Cambodian.Lots of cute masseurs, too, available from midday onwards.
As for Winners, it was honoured by hosting my first visit to a go go bar since I arrived two weeks ago, P having demanded an early night. It was late but there were around twelve guys available, apparently having great fun with the few punters there. I'd guess that many had been offed well before I arrived. And my Diet Coke cost 79bht...prices unrecorded since 2000!

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Originally Posted by Wheelz

Oh gosh! I was planning a couple of nights in Jomtien (Zing) in a week’s time and a visit to Winner in Sunnee to find a twink willing and able... now i’m all confused. Will I find a boy willing let alone able?

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Don't be confused, Wheelz, no problem in finding a willing lad. Winner Bar was crowded with farang last night just like in the bad old days.

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Originally Posted by Oliver2

..and my Diet Coke cost 79bht...prices unrecorded since 2000!

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Just minor observation, opt for Coke Zero, next time! It is also no sugar, but doesn't have the awful sweetener taste. Same with Pepsi Max, so good, no sugar!

Btw, Francois, Im flagging my own post as off topic, so you don't have to, I'm such nice guy.

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Originally Posted by Oliver2

... my Diet Coke cost 79bht...prices unrecorded since 2000!

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Don't want to worry you, but maybe it was stock from 2000

:p

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Originally Posted by scottish-guy

Don't want to worry you, but maybe it was stock from 2000

:p

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Is that the Coke or the boys from BBB?

Some of the "Boys" from BBB are old stock from the 1970s

scotty...sometimes u really r a scream...