Break-up of United Kingdom closer than ever.

A poll commissioned by a Unionist organisation has found that support for Scotland remaining in a post Brexit UK in any circumstances is down to just 43%.

Even more astonishingly, in Northern Ireland it's just 39% to remain in post Brexit UK and (in a separate question) 56% in NI would back a united Ireland over a Brexit UK which encompassed a hard border in Ireland.


Little wonder the British establishment has been smearing as fast as it can, with the BBC (whose Board in now controlled by UK Govt appointees) is being used to instantly close down Independence supporting You Tube channels by serving copyright notices (which don't even apply to news coverage, under "fair use") whilst disregarding or tipping off Unionist channels hosting the same material

Some posts in this thread have been moved to the Holding Room.

https://sawatdeenetwork.com/v4/showt...?20268-Scandal

I seriously doubt there had been any responses - see the timeline - and I see nothing in the Holding Room which relates to this thread

Oops!

You are correct, SG.

The posts were moved from the thread "Scandal Rocks The Scottish National Party"

That's what you get when typing on an iPhone with big fingers! I must have clicked on the thread below.

I was going to ask have you the source for that poll SG - but of course as polls are famously usually bollicks anyway dont bother - but I can tell you being on the ground so to speak that those numbers ( re the NI part ) purely from a gut reaction just dont feel anywhere near right - but I guess it all depends on what and how they asked the questions of course. To be fair though I will concede that I've heard more two room chatter re "would you do if" type scenarios and whilst all sorts of "what if's" come up things "usually" end up roughly back where they started BUT Brexit could of course change a lot of views and i think everyone IS a bit more minded to keep their options open than the NEVER NEVER NEVER lines before....well the moderates anyway....but do I think they'll be out taking down the Union flag anytime soon here, no, I honestly don't think so. I mean they used to say this sort of stuff about Hong Kong and about how it one day wouldn't be British anymore but hey that didn't happ..........hmmmm.....ohhh SHIT !! :) lol

Speaking personally and as a Unionist - I'm nearly 50, I've lived through the shit, defended my Country, did the whole bit, life on the line blah bah blah, now.......fucking WHATEVER, I'm almost past caring - they're all a pack of twats who most certainly dont give a toss about ME or my life so I really dont care anymore - whichever Government promises to tax me less and leave me the fuck alone that'll probably do me now !

For Cod and Ulster - No Suspenders ! :)

It was a poll published yesterday by Deltapoll (who are members of the British Polling Council same as YouGov etc) and it was commissioned for a Unionist group called Best for Britain. Sample was just over 1000

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Originally Posted by scottish-guy

It was a poll published yesterday by Deltapoll (who are members of the British Polling Council same as YouGov etc) and it was commissioned for a Unionist group called Best for Britain. Sample was just over 1000

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Anyone who can recall the abysmal record of British opinion pollsters during the last general election (when people were actually voting rather than being asked a hypothetical question) will give this sort of poll the credence it deserves

I find it fascinating that the same people who want independence from a common market of England, Wales (including Swansea) and Northern Ireland and some control from London, at the same time want to retain membership of a common market of the continental EC countries with some control from Brussels. Imagine the practical implementation of the England/Scotland customs border given the difficulties being encountered settling the tiny Ulster/Eire border negotiations. As I say, I hope it happens; it will provide more than enough schadenfreude to see out my lifetime

Whether you accept the polls in Scotland and Northern Ireland or not , is no skin off my nose whatsoever. All I would take from them is the direction of travel - hence the title of the thread.

As for the suggestion that the big bad EU would be much worse for Scotland than those benevolent Brexiteers like Creepy Rees-Mogg and Buffoon Johnson - well, that did make me laugh.

On coping with Borders - the rest of the world seems to manage and I really believe that if the English put their minds to it, and with a bit of luck, they’ll be able to muddle through. At least they’ll have shiny blue passports again which they can use to travel abroad for health care when they find their NHS has collapsed as it’s become impossible to staff without Johnny Foreigner

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Originally Posted by scottish-guy

Whether you accept the polls in Scotland and Northern Ireland or not , is no skin off my nose whatsoever. All I would take from them is the direction of travel - hence the title of the thread.

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We are as one on that

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Originally Posted by scottish-guy

On coping with Borders - the rest of the world seems to manage and I really believe that if the English put their minds to it they’ll be able to muddle through.

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Still expecting the English to sort out your problems for you? Why would the English care about the problems of a scattered population one-third the size of their largest city? Seal the border and let the Scots sort it out for themselves

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Originally Posted by scottish-guy

... benevolent Brexiteers like Creepy Rees-Mogg ...

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I do love what appears to be Rees-Mogg's complete contempt for the female voter. He seems to believe that the role of the wife is to be a breeding machine, the results looked after by a female nanny and the housework done by female servants. Sadly my one-room walk up with cold water flat here in Swansea doesn't support servants. Heavens, I still rely on a 56K dial-up modem for my Internet access

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Originally Posted by frequent

...Why would the English care about the problems of a scattered population one-third the size of their largest city....

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Well, having pissed off all of Europe and being despised throughout the world, where else are they going to source their electricity, gas, oil and water - and where else will they house their weapons of mass destruction (the bill for which will dwarf the financial-jiggery-pokery deficit they keep trying to frighten us with)?

Oh, and when did the population of London reach 16 million? It's just over half that figure

Looks like you don't even know the population of Scotland. I had you down as educated too.

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Originally Posted by scottish-guy

Oh, and when did the population of London reach 16 million? It's just over half that figure. Looks like you don't even know the population of Scotland. I had you down as educated too.

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Attachment 7888

The idea, Frequent, is to do your Googling before you post.

I thoroughly recommend that approach and given the preponderance of nit-pickers on here it usually pays dividends.

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Originally Posted by scottish-guy

The idea, Frequent, is to do your Googling before you post. I thoroughly recommend that approach and given the preponderance of nit-pickers on here it usually pays dividends.

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You mean illustrating that the population of Scotland is 5/8 the population of London rather than closer to 3/8? In the grand scheme of things that's barely outside the margin of error, and certainly doesn't vitiate my point that the population of Scotland simply isn't worth worrying about. It's like Pattaya to those of us who live in Bangkok. You know it's there; it just doesn't matter

Oh dear - you said one third didn't you?

Well, 1/3 is 3/9ths not 3/8ths.

It may seem a small fraction of a difference, but when translated into actual numbers the scale of the error is stark:

As I originally said, for Scotland to have 1/3 the population of London as you claimed, the London population would need to be almost 16 million. The fact is it's just over half of that.

A huge error - man up and admit it.

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Originally Posted by scottish-guy

Oh dear - you said one third didn't you? Well, 1/3 is 3/9ths not 3/8ths.It may seem a small fraction of a difference but when translated into actual numbers the scale of the error is stark: As I originally said, for Scotland to have 1/3 the population of London as you claimed, the London population would need to be almost 16 million. The fact is it's just over half of that. A huge error - man up and admit it.

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You are arithmetically correct but that is irrelevant in the context of the utter pointlessness of worrying about the Scots, which was my entire thesis. Apart from whisky and perhaps smoked salmon, why would Scotland be missed if it fell off the edge of the world tomorrow. New Zealand is in the same position, and just as irrelevant (you'll note my even-handed offensiveness to both arse-ends of the world)

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Originally Posted by frequent

You are arithmetically correct..

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You should have stopped right there :D

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Originally Posted by frequent

...Apart from whisky and perhaps smoked salmon, why would Scotland be missed if it fell off the edge of the world tomorrow...

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In world terms, few small countries are significant but your initial comparison was with England - so can I refer you to the 4 examples I gave in my initial response?

If you can tell me where else England is going to source her electricity, gas, oil and water from (in none of which is England self-sufficient) or where else she intends to place rump UK's WMD, then we can talk.

Meanwhile some of us have a job to go to - toodle-oo the noo!!

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Originally Posted by scottish-guy

If you can tell me where else England is going to source her electricity, gas, oil and water from (in none of which is England self-sufficient) or where else she intends to place her WMD, then we can talk.

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Where's the fun in that? You seem to be under the illusion that anything any of us say will make the slightest difference. You should join Smiles and cdnmatt in their fascination with Trump, another topic where neither they, nor you, nor I can make the slightest difference

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Originally Posted by scottish-guy

If you can tell me where else England is going to source her electricity, gas, oil and water from (in none of which is England self-sufficient) or where else she intends to place her WMD, then we can talk.

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As to sources of the things you mention, that's all just Ceteris paribus; the same sort of argument that was running 100+ years ago which suggested the streets of London would soon be impassable because of all the horse shit there would be. To take just one of those four - water. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever, apart from the aesthetics involved, why we cannot drink recycled, purified sewage. It can certainly be used in all sorts of processes, assuming we have the will. In America this process is known as "toilet-to-tap" - or as the Americans put it, "terlit-to-tap"

A well brought up and politely behaved Englishman can expect the warmest of welcomes wherever he ventures. This has been my experience and nowhere more so than Scotland. Members should not allow one bitter UK national to sully my nation or embarrass his.

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Originally Posted by frequent

Where's the fun in that? You seem to be under the illusion that anything any of us say will make the slightest difference. You should join Smiles and cdnmatt in their fascination with Trump, another topic where neither they, nor you, nor I can make the slightest difference

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Look, if we all confined ourselves to commenting only on things we have any expertise in, or on matters which we can effect, or even if we just took into account the level of interest with which our comments are received, then the author of post #20 would have absolutely nothing to say.

Hmmm, you may have hit on something

:D

Wise words indeed from Scottish Guy. Thanks for posting.

Dream on. The world cannot let the scottish run free and without supervision by the Brittish.

kjun22 wrote.
" Dream on. The world cannot let the scottish run free and without supervision by the Brittish."

Unlike the Scotch which should be allowed to run as freely as desired. Preferably with just one ice cube.

Attachment 7904

Perhaps they drink less Scotch.

Next time Scotland has a referendum, I hope the rest of the UK also has the chance to vote on the matter.

If EITHER Scotland OR the rest of the UK wants a divorce, then bring it on.

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Originally Posted by goji

Next time Scotland has a referendum, I hope the rest of the UK also has the chance to vote on the matter. If EITHER Scotland OR the rest of the UK wants a divorce, then bring it on.

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Like Big Brother reality TV?

An interesting article today on the decline of the Scottish voice-over. Here's an excerpt but (good news for scottish-guy) the piece ends on a positive note which I will let those interested read for themselves:

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Then came the independence referendum. For the first time, English advertisers, who’d always championed the use of Scottish voices in their commercials, heard a lot of Scottish people saying quite unkind things about England. Even though the nationalists lost the vote, they were the more voluble side, so the die was cast. It’s only got worse with Nicola Sturgeon’s sour stewardship of the SNP.

Last month, a further nail was hammered into the Scottish coffin with reports that Alex Salmond, whose entire political career has been predicated on his ‘Professional Scotsman’ persona, is facing claims of sexual misconduct.

It is the recent World Cup, however, that may have done the most damage. As England progressed to the semi-finals, many Scottish fans refused to support them. In fact, they took pride in supporting anyone but England. To the English advertiser, a Scottish voice now sounded more treacherous than trustworthy. News International, BT, Guinness and the Co-op are among those who appear to have dropped Scottish voices from their advertising.

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https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/09/...ottish-accent/

Interestingly another article mentions Salmonella's "five pensions"

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Originally Posted by goji

Next time Scotland has a referendum, I hope the rest of the UK also has the chance to vote on the matter.

If EITHER Scotland OR the rest of the UK wants a divorce, then bring it on.

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I sort of agree - if you mean that any constituent country within the UK could hold their own referendum, with only the people living in that country taking part.

If however you're suggesting that people living outside Scotland should vote in a Scottish independence referendum (or people living outside England should be able to vote on a hypothetical English independence referendum) then I fundamentally disagree. You cannot have one country vetoing another country's self-determination - such a proposition is completely illogical

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Originally Posted by scottish-guy

I sort of agree - if you mean that any constituent country within the UK could hold their own referendum, with only the people living in that country taking part.

If however you're suggesting that people living outside Scotland should vote in a Scottish independence referendum (or people living outside England should be able to vote on a hypothetical English independence referendum) then I fundamentally disagree. You cannot have one country vetoing another country's self-determination - such a proposition is completely illogical

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I guess there's a side issue of whether Scots living outside Scotland should also have a vote. There's a precedent in that ex-pats from various countries can still exercise their vote in their home country elections. Thailand is but one example of that, as is (I believe) Australia

It's not the same frequent. A citizen of a nation state is easily verifiable and therefore can be allotted a vote. This is not the case with England, Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland.

Anyway, the point is moot. There won't be another referendum this century..