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Reverse Culture Shock?
I'm sure many of you have experienced what I'm alluding to, I guess you'd call it "reverse culture shock". Have many of you experienced difficulties in transitioning back to your home countries/
There's some things I like, such as the fact English is spoken, which is quite handy. The calm and subdued culture around here is also quite nice in a way, as it helps allow you to plan for the future easier as everything is somewhat predictable. Then I also like the fact that everyone from taxi drivers to store clerks seem to doing alright in terms of standard of living.
Several things I don't like compared to Thailand though. One large contrast is everyone here is much more ingenuine, to the point people almost seem semi-comotosed. Nobody is really happy, sad, angry, excited, nothing -- everyone is just content and monotone. Everyone seems to put on this outside facade about how great they're doing, and it's as if everyone knows they're doing it, everyone realizes it's fucken retarded, and everyone continues to do it anyway. Whereas in Thailand, people are more themselves, and it's never really occurred to them how or why they'd put on some outside facade such as that.
Another thing I don't really like is how privacy is a #1 priority here, and is almost valued above as well. I understand it, but no longer agree with it, as it helps fuel the point I made above. I remember it took me years of living in Thailand to get over the fact I no longer really have any privacy, and to realize the benefits of it. For years I was somewhat agitated that people kept being nosey, asking me questions all the time, watching where I went, what I bought, what I did, etc. After a while though, I realized it's actually highly benefical, and they're not really being nosey at all. They're simply doing their small role to help contribute to the community by ensuring there's no problems or anything I need help with, ensuring everything is on the up and up, etc. At the same time I realized that any little quirks I may have are totally fine, and nobody actually cares. You're allowed to just be yourself, everyone is totally accepting of it, and as long as you're a good person with a good heart, that's all that really matters. No need to put on a show and hide your true self in Thailand, and no need to worry about the fact everyone in a 3km radius knows the general gist about you.
Another one is in Canada WHAT you are seems more important than WHO you are, whereas in Thailand it's the opposite. In Thailand you can be a complete prick, but as long as you're wealthy, you'll garner respect. Whereas in Thailand people wake up every morning, and seem to genuinely strive to be a good person, as who you are matters more there. For example, people in Canada will help you but because they feel moreso obligated to as it's "just the right thing to do", whereas in Thailand if someone helps you, it's because they genuinely want to help.
Another is where did the love and commpassion go in this society? It's gone, completely. One stark example was I ended up at a Tim Hortons in Vancouver around 4am, waiting for my 7:30am departure on Harbor Air. I checked out very early, and decided to make my way closer to the terminal to ensure I didn't miss my flight. There was a homeless guy wandering around asking for 50 cents, so I called him over, said I don't have any money, but feel free to order all the food / drink you want. He took me up on the offer, and the clerk proceeded to scold me for it, and I replied "What?!?! Everyone needs to eat!".
Since I was stuck waiting at Tim Hortons for about 2.5 hours, later the clerk proceeded to tell me I should never buy people like "that" food, because I guess he did things like lock himself in the bathroom and piss all over the floor, which she then had to clean up, etc. I sat back down, and all I could think was, "this type of scenario would never happen in Thailand". When people are down on their luck like that in Thailand, everyone chips in to help out. Whether it's a little money, or the small restaurant or market stall makes some food for them, or someone gets them a drink from 7/11, or whatever. The communal spirit of Thailand kicks in, those people get taken care of, hence never become so bitter that it causes problems such as this.
Oh, and one more I don't like is the socital stigmas that come with Canada. I remember at first I loved Thailand because telling a Thai your gay is about the same as telling them your favorite color is blue, whereas in Canada it's more along the lines of responses like, "ohhh, you're gay?!? that's great, I know lots og gay people, and you guys are just the nicest people!" or "this is Matt, my gay friend", and so on. Now that I'm blind though, that's went to a whole other level. Some people just naturally assume I must be unemployed and homeless, others say retarded shit like, "it's ok, your're already a winner in my eyes!". I don't even know what the fuck that means, but pretty sure it's disparaging. In Canada, people see a blind guy. In Thailand, people see a human being who just happens to be blind. Two totally different things
Anyway, long enough. How about you guys? And difficultues transitioning back to your home countries after so long in Asia?
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Re: Reverse Culture Shock?
Why are you 'transitioning' to Canada in the first place? I thought you were just straitening out your passport problems so that could start 'transitioning' to Laos ... after you have 'un-transitioned' out of Thailand that is.
I assume that Kim and the dogs are pretty well over 're-transitioning' back to Laos after having 'transitioned' into Thailand to be with you in the first place.
And by the way ... who says this?:
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnmatt
" ... ohhh, you're gay?!? that's great, I know lots o(f) gay people, and you guys are just the nicest people!" or "this is Matt, my gay friend" ..."
I've been in Canada for 6 weeks now (to my chagrin) and have been introduced to many a new person: on the golf course, in the pub, in Starbucks, and absolutely yes, Tim Hortons. None have pronounced their greetings with such hoary old cliches. Yes, pure hogwash.
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Re: Reverse Culture Shock?
Because believe it or not, as it turns out, the government are cunts. Who would have thought, eh?
They won't issue me a new passport, because my current passport has more than 12 months validity. Tried twice now, and failed both times. Will try one more time, and currently have Leo running arouns SE Asia gathering up the necessary documentation, as my father accidentally threw it all into the recycle bin.
Technically, I can still travel on my existing passport, but realistically, it's as useful as a coaster. More than likely, I can't even go to Mexico for a 4 day vacation, or even cross the US border for a 1 hour shopping trip with that passport.
If they deny the issuance of a new passport again, I'll just sue the federal government. I'll effectively be barred from leaving the country until next February, so fuck it, I'll have 9 months to kill, and nothing else to do. This is especially aggravating considering I've read reports on the internet of how people have had that 12 month validity rule relaxed for reasons such as they just wanted to sync their expiration date with their wife's passport.
If they don't issue me passport, they are effectively denying me passport services, which they are not allowed to do. I don't meet any of the criteria to be denied a passport (I read the law). They will effectively be banning me from leaving Canada, hence will be denying a disabled individual access to his caretaker, hence denying me quality of life.
I don't know, I'll try to get a new passport issued one more time, before I settle in for the fact I'm stuck in Canada until next February.
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Re: Reverse Culture Shock?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cndmatt
" ... If they deny the issuance of a new passport again, I'll just sue the federal government ... "
Yep ... that should work like a charm. :crazy_mini:
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Re: Reverse Culture Shock?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnmatt
More than likely, I can't even go to Mexico for a 4 day vacation, or even cross the US border for a 1 hour shopping trip with that passport.
You poor chap!
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Re: Reverse Culture Shock?
Did you fly alone with Harbor Air. That must have taken some doing?
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Re: Reverse Culture Shock?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gerefan2
Did you fly alone with Harbor Air. That must have taken some doing?
Yes, the staff there are excellent. :)
If you must know, my mother dropped me off at the terminal in Nanaimo, then the taxi driver from Hong Kong in Vancouver was nice enough to walk me all the way to the terminal on my way back. Once at the terminal, the Harbour Air staff take care of the rest, and again, were excellent.
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Re: Reverse Culture Shock?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cdnmatt
Because believe it or not, as it turns out, the government are cunts. Who would have thought, eh?
They won't issue me a new passport, because my current passport has more than 12 months validity. Tried twice now, and failed both times. Will try one more time, and currently have Leo running arouns SE Asia gathering up the necessary documentation, as my father accidentally threw it all into the recycle bin.
.
Why can't you just report that your passport has been lost or stolen? You could just accidentally on purpose misplace it.
Can't you get a new passport if the old one was lost or stolen??
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Re: Reverse Culture Shock?
I was living in BKK as an expat for three years, and returning to northern Europe was really hard I have to admit. When I think back, then it was easier to adapt to life in BKK than life in Denmark, but that's maybe because BKK was some sort of adventure for me.
The things that were really hard to adjust back to was of course the food (Thai food is the best food in Asia!) and the cold weather in Northern Europe. And of course the boys. In BKK, you are in some neighbourhoods surrounded by heavenly beautiful boys all the time who are friendly and interested talking to you. It's a kind of hard landing going back to Europe where all younger guys play hard to get and are plain arrogant often. Spoiled, you could say. Even though there is very often a strong element of sexual attraction between farangs and Thai boys (and money too some extent too), it's hard to overlook the genuine non-sexual and non-pecuniar aspects of this: The curiosity, hospitality and their deep-grounded respect that characterises the younger Thai guys (with many exceptions of course).
About the people at work, then I was actually kind of happy to back in a European workspace with more people to talk during the day about politics, (pocket)philosophy and culture and to make jokes with. The humour in northern Europe is very much based on irony and sarcasm, which Thai people don't get at all.
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Re: Reverse Culture Shock?
I am Swiss. I have encountered some of the worst "reverse culture shock" when I bump into other Swiss people in Thailand or other parts of the world.
I am from the French-speaking part of Switzerland. When I meet Swiss from the German-speaking parts, there is always the question of what language should we speak.
Should I speak to them in French, even if their French is not very good? Should I try to speak to them in Swiss German, or should be try to speak in standard German?
Or should we just try to speak in English, which would be a neutral language....And these are people from my own supposedly multi-lingual country.....
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Re: Reverse Culture Shock?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
werner
Why can't you just report that your passport has been lost or stolen? You could just accidentally on purpose misplace it.
Can't you get a new passport if the old one was lost or stolen??
That is an option, but not one I'm willing to entertain at the moment. Simply because if I report a lost / stolen passport, it first has to go through a RCMP (police) investigation, which could take 2 or 3 months, before they're willing to issue a new passport.
Will try one last time politely, before shit hits the fan.
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Re: Reverse Culture Shock?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cdnmatt
That is an option, but not one I'm willing to entertain at the moment. Simply because if I report a lost / stolen passport, it first has to go through a RCMP (police) investigation, which could take 2 or 3 months, before they're willing to issue a new passport.
Will try one last time politely, before shit hits the fan.
Good heavens! It takes that long to replace a lost/stolen passport? I knew a Canadian whose passport was stolen in China. It seems that he had it replaced in a couple days, although he had to pay some outrageous fee. My passport was once stolen in Germany years ago. [I had left it in an unlocked drawer of my desk at work, and it was probably stolen by the night-time cleaning staff.] The ever efficient German police found it before I could even report the loss. Someone had evidentally tried to use it at the German border...
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Re: Reverse Culture Shock?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nordicguy
The humour in northern Europe is very much based on irony and sarcasm, which Thai people don't get at all.
Yes, irony and sarcasm tend to crash into the rocks of Thai literal-mindedness, particularly among the less-educated. I try not to use sarcasm at all, since it is usually perceived as plain aggression and hatefulness. Even the mildest form of irony can backfire as well. I have a good Thai friend Dton, who works in a Bangkok bar but comes to visit me in Pattaya quite often. We were sitting at Dick's Cafe in Jomtien one time and I was telling him how much he resembled a waiter there. The waiter wasn't at work that evening and I found myself exaggerating the resemblance mischievously. As we walked away after our meal I looked at Dton in mock puzzlement and said, 'Are you Dton or the waiter?' I can't believe any Westerner would have failed to realise at once that I was joking, but poor old Dton cried out in anguish, 'I am Dton!' 'I know, I know,' I had to reply tamely.
I don't mean to suggest that Thais are lacking in humour though. On the contrary, I find them to be one of the most delightfully humorous peoples in the world when it comes to appreciating life's absurdities.
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Re: Reverse Culture Shock?
snotface, do you explain the meaning of your posting name (snotface) to your Thai friends? :bo:
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Re: Reverse Culture Shock?
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Originally Posted by
francois
snotface, do you explain the meaning of your posting name (snotface) to your Thai friends? :bo:
It's not occurred to me that they might be interested - but who knows, what with all that public nose-picking that goes on...
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Re: Reverse Culture Shock?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
snotface
As we walked away after our meal I looked at Dton in mock puzzlement and said, 'Are you Dton or the waiter?' ........... but poor old Dton cried out in anguish, 'I am Dton!' .
Perhaps he was more just quietly shaking his head in despair inwardly thinking "ohh FFS yet another one of those stupid racist farang who seemingly can't tell the difference between Thai people as they think we all look the same" - but - before you start to protest too much there about "NO, it ain't so" I have it on good authority from my asian BF that a lot of asians think EXACTLY the same about us in reverse so I wouldn't worry too much ! :)
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Re: Reverse Culture Shock?
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Originally Posted by
Nirish guy
... I have it on good authority from my asian BF that a lot of asians think EXACTLY the same about us in reverse so I wouldn't worry too much ! :)
So true.
I was often told in Japan that we all look the same!
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Re: Reverse Culture Shock?
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Originally Posted by
a447
So true.
I was often told in Japan that we all look the same!
A few years back a Korean shop keeper in the US was charged with selling cigarettes to a minor. His lawyer won a landmark decision which validated that Asians have a very difficult time identifying age markers in Caucasians just as Asians look so young to us. That precident is now used in all cases involving Asian/Caucasian ID cases in US courts.
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Re: Reverse Culture Shock?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
werner
Good heavens! It takes that long to replace a lost/stolen passport? I knew a Canadian whose passport was stolen in China. It seems that he had it replaced in a couple days, although he had to pay some outrageous fee. My passport was once stolen in Germany years ago. [I had left it in an unlocked drawer of my desk at work, and it was probably stolen by the night-time cleaning staff.] The ever efficient German police found it before I could even report the loss. Someone had evidentally tried to use it at the German border...
I don't know, I'm only going off what I've read on the internet. That, and I don't really want to push my luck, and give them an actual vvalid reason to deny me passport services.
First time I tried was in Victoria, and they just shrugged me off by saying "rules are rules". Didn't waste much time with them, as it was apparent they can only advise on what they think the decision will be, but don't have the authorization to make the actual decision. That happens in Vancouver.
So I came back home, read up on the law, and found out they can relax regulations such as this for compelling and compassionate reasons, so I gave that a shot. Wrote a two page letter explaining everything, included photographic evidence of genuine relationship, had both Leo and my mother write a letter, etc. Off to Vancouver I went alone (terrifying, as first time I've travelled blind alone), and they still said no. Reasons was they can't help me skirt the law, and trying to explain to them I'm not trying to skirt the law fell on deaf ears. In hindsight I fucked up by being too honest, and telling them I was refused entry at the Laos border in Nong Khai on a technicality. I should have lied, and said I was detained and deported upon trying to exit Thailand, and never made it to the Laos border.
Will try it one more time. This time, fuck the compassionate route, as I forgot that went out of society long ago. Will have the following:
1.) Letter from Laos immigration department in Vientiane stating I have no travel restrictions against me entering the country.
2.) Letter from Thai immigration stating that blacklist stamp is only for overstay, and not a criminal offense.
3.) Letter from Laos immigration lawyer stating I was refused only on a technicality (travelling via land border), and does not mean I'm blacklisted in any form.
4.) Letter from eye specialist in Khon Kaen vouching that Leo is indeed my caretaker.
5.) Letter from a Canadian doctor confirming that I am blind due to atrophic (sp) optic nerves.
6.) Copy of Thailand overstay laws.
7.) Letter from Canadian immigration lawyer stating whatever he/she deems necessary, but at the very least, the fact the law states that me having a 2 year limited validity passport is the only reason they need to grant my request, cancel the passport, and issue a new one.
8.) Letters from clients on company letterhead and signed stating I'm needed in Taiwan, Cyprus, and Israel.
9.) Personal letter from myself explaining everything. On top of being with my husband and caretaker, and visiting my clients, I also need to get to Hong Kong to incorporate, and Kuala Lumpur for dental surgery.
10.) Accounts of Canadians who have had this regulation relaxed for far less, such as wanting to sync their expiration date with their wife's passport.
And said Canadian immigration lawyer will be with me at the passport office next time I go. Then I don't know, but I may also search out a bunch of bitcoin conferences around the world coming up, and volunteer to be a speaker as well, showing even more need to be able to travel around the world. That's the best I can think of, because spending 9 months in Canada is going to be totally devastating for everyone -- myself, Leo, and my dogs.
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Re: Reverse Culture Shock?
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Re: Reverse Culture Shock?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cndmatt
"9.) Personal letter from myself explaining everything ... "
You've pulled more dumb things out of a hat which you have shared with this board more than any member has done since Sawatdee was first started.
But this idea above may well be the dumbest. I thought "suing the Canadian Government" was laughable, but this? Good god almighty, where did you think up this nonsense in the first place? Why in fucks name didn't you just stay put in Kong Khaen?
On the other hand, perhaps Manforallseasons is correct.
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Re: Reverse Culture Shock?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Smiles
You've pulled more dumb things out of a hat which you have shared with this board more than any member has done since Sawatdee was first started.
But this idea above may well be the dumbest. I thought "suing the Canadian Government" was laughable, but this? Good god almighty, where did you think up this nonsense in the first place? Why in fucks name didn't you just stay put in Kong Khaen?
On the other hand, perhaps Manforallseasons is correct.
I know it's retarded, but do you have any other ideas? That blacklist stamp effectively bars me from leaving Canada, so I need a new passport, and neither Leo and myself feel like twiddling our thumbs until next February until my passport has less than 12 months validity. Vancouver says they can't grant my request because they need a valid reason to cancel an existing passport, and because they can't help me skirt the law.
Ok, fine. I'll provide legal proof from Laos immigration stating there's no travel restrictions against me, and proof from Thai immigration stating the blacklist is only for overstay and not a criminal offense (the stamp only says I'm blacklisted, but doesn't say WHY). Then I'll provide multiple valid reasons -- I'm disabled and need my caretaker, I have several clients who need me in person, I need to be in Kuala Lumpur for dental durgery, etc.
Their "skirting the law" excuse is pretty weak if you ask me. I could understand that if I was showing up with a legal name change or similar, but that's not the case. Even with a new passport, I'm still not going to be able to enter Thailand until April 2023. If I try, I'll just get thrown into IDC again for a few days, then deported back to Canada. However, that stamp basically restricts my ability to travel to any country in the world, as if I try to travel on the passport, I know already it'll be nothing but problems and deportations at basically every border crossing I hit.
And we moved to Laos for multiple reasons.
1.) Leo is Laos, hence things like employment and education is easier for him in Laos.
2.) Leo has friends and a better social life in Laos.
3.) Leo wouldn't have to constantly do border runs every 30 days.
4.) I could clear my overstay, and get legal immigrant status finally (had / have a 1 year business VISA lined up)
5.) We were bored of Khon Kaen, plus the owners wanted to take possession of the house back anyway.
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Reverse Culture Shock?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cdnmatt
.. if I report a lost / stolen passport, it first has to go through a RCMP (police) investigation..
Do they send a guy wearing a red uniform and brown hat round to your house, on top of a horse?
Attachment 6955
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Re: Reverse Culture Shock?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cdnmatt
.
That blacklist stamp effectively bars me from leaving Canada, so I need a new passport.....
....... I'll provide legal proof from Laos immigration stating there's no travel restrictions against me.
Talk about contradicting yourself ! One minute it’s “I can’t travel because basically my passport is useless ( its either valid or it’s not a replacement passport won’t change that).
Then it’s they’re keeping me here in Canada against my will - they’re not - you HAVE a valid passport.
And finally if you’re SO sure that your apparent letter from Lao immigration stating there are no travel restrictions against you is worth the paper it’s written on and is genuine then GO ! What’s keeping you for god sake !!
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Re: Reverse Culture Shock?
Why keep on feeding this troll?
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Re: Reverse Culture Shock?
I keep trying to stay away but this keeps drawing me here. Me thinks Moses is paying the Canadian to keep the saga alive
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Re: Reverse Culture Shock?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Manforallseasons
" ... Why keep on feeding this troll? ... "
MFAS ... you've proven a thousand times over that you lack even a minute semblance of any Cosmic Giggle (or even a more mundane non-philosophical sense of humour for that manner), thus, you cannot find any Ha Ha at all in Cndmatt's nutty sojourn through life as posted here ... and ain't we lucky?.
Granted, neither has Cndmatt any 5555, but those who get a kick out of Reading-All-About-Himself certainly relish his comicical craziness.
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Re: Reverse Culture Shock?
Despite MFAS suggestion to not feed the trolls I have to add in my tuppence!
Matt: Despite your hair brained schemes.. why have you not thought of the obvious one?
Pay some "illegal immigrants" to mug you in front of CCTV and rob your wallet and passport that you stupidly had in your back pockets
Ten minutes and a false police report later and you have a new passport
Surely can't be any less illegal than any of the rest of your schemes!
Its also a trick you can't pull off if you go down the third appeal route...
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Re: Reverse Culture Shock?
No, because then that opens a criminal investigation with the RCMP, while they try to find and charge the person who stole my passport.
And don't worry about MFAS. He's an idiot, and for some unknown reason even thinks I'm BeachLover.
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Re: Reverse Culture Shock?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Davey612
I keep trying to stay away but this keeps drawing me here. Me thinks Moses is paying the Canadian to keep the saga alive
The payment he is getting is that this sham is allowed to continue it is simply a matter of adding activity to his site.
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Re: Reverse Culture Shock?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Manforallseasons
The payment he is getting is that this sham is allowed to continue it is simply a matter of adding activity to his site.
Of course it is and I have pointed this out before.
Also, what does his passport problems have to do with Thailand? Us lesser mortals would have had out threads put into the Hiding Room ages ago.
Mods?
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Re: Reverse Culture Shock?
Being subjected to cdnmatt's continuing saga is part of our “admission fee” to the SGT Universe.
Of course monetization is the reason.
Ass, gas, or grass, nobody rides for free.
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Re: Reverse Culture Shock?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
loki
Being subjected to cdnmatt's continuing saga is part of our “admission fee” to the SGT Universe.
Of course monetization is the reason.
Ass, gas, or grass, nobody rides for free.
Correct as well as laying out the welcome mat for all existing and newbie trolls.
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Re: Reverse Culture Shock?
I'm not a troll, you idiot. Who knows, there's a decent chance I'll end up meeting Surfcrest shortly in Vancouver, and he can confirm I'm exactly who I say I am.
I should really heed my oldest brother's advice, write a book, and publish it on Amazon or similar. Quite obviously, it's wasted on you old and cynical folk.
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Re: Reverse Culture Shock?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cdnmatt
I should really heed my oldest brother's advice, write a book, and publish it on Amazon or similar.
I believe you mean self-publish a book.
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Re: Reverse Culture Shock?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cdnmatt
I'm not a troll, you idiot. Who knows, there's a decent chance I'll end up meeting Surfcrest shortly in Vancouver, and he can confirm I'm exactly who I say I am.
Just FYI: don't look now ... but you can be exactly who/what you say you are, and still be a raging troll.
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Re: Reverse Culture Shock?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gerefan2
rtals would have had out threads put into the Hiding Room ages ago.
Mods?
Wow Gerefan2. You must have great connections
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Re: Reverse Culture Shock?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Davey612
Wow Gerefan2. You must have great connections
Thank you, but I just tell it as it is...
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Re: Reverse Culture Shock?
..don't we all dear, but we don't all get listened to
:p
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Re: Reverse Culture Shock?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cdnmatt
I'm not a troll, you idiot. Who knows, there's a decent chance I'll end up meeting Surfcrest shortly in Vancouver, and he can confirm I'm exactly who I say I am
Well, well, well? You? Surfcrest? Dinner? Vancouver? Yes? No? If no, why? Us, waiting. Bated breathing.