Boy Talk

Having sat with my friend and his friends many times it may (or may not) be interesting to note what they discuss as regards the Farang in bars. Contrary to popular belief, they do not discuss the size, or lack thereof, of the Farang's endowment, unless it is a really big one. Apparently less fortunately endowed Farang do not get a mention. Further, as the boys are mainly (allegedly) 'straight' (or the ones I have mixed with are), the size of a Farang's equipment doesn't seem to hold much interest. The main topics when it comes to farang's seem to relate to whether they are jai dii (good heart), Ting Tong (stupid), pum-pooey (chubby) or whether they need a good shower. Age is not a criteria I have heard discussed.

There doesn't seem to be any resentment that some boys are more popular with Farangs and get taken off more frequently than others and the boys seem happy when one of their own gets taken for a long time (several days, weeks or even months and years). Some of these boys though do seem to have trouble getting the bar scene out of their heads and even though they are 'offed' for a long time, still come back to the bars to keep up with what is going on.

Out of everything talked about, a certain topic crops up quite frequently, who the boys like to see when not working. As mentioned most of the guys I have mixed with are straight and a lot seem to like to spend time with the ladies after work is done. Some, prefer their own company. But I am amazed at just how many prefer to go out and shag the arse off an attractive ladyboy. Having had it made quite clear to me that 'I am man, no gay, no ladyboy' by several of these guys when I have questioned their sexuality, it becomes clear that it is easier to shag a ladyboy than to have all the hassle of getting it on with a woman and the possible financial traps that could ensue. I still have my doubts though when I see some of these guys with their tongues virtually hanging out when they see a glammed up ladyboy.

I also hear comment as to if the farang is generous - and as you say F/41, age and looks don't figure.

Amusing to me are "the-ideal-off" stories: always an unverifable friend of a friend who for example was offed and got B5000 for a 10 minute hand job. Perhaps these are urban myths: when I question further, the customer is always a Japanese.

"But I am amazed at just how many prefer to go out and shag the arse off an attractive ladyboy. "

In Pattaya, most Thai men have to pay hard cash to get laid by most woman, especially if she's a good looking bar girl aho dont come cheap.

Most ladyboys, who are tired of being handled by fat old farangs, and who have some spare cash, are happy to pay to get shagged -- or give it away free. That's why these guys love katoeys.

Num took me to visit his frien' at 'his' bar. Meaning: the bucket-of-blood where friend was working.
Num introduced his friend, Khun A, and said, "Oh-oh, him used to be rich! Farang give him condo, car, gold and money, mahk-mahk. Farang tell him finish bar; go...school. Farang come back him still work bar, no school. Farang chuk him out. Condo, car, gold, money...bye-bye."
Num and A chatted. When A finished his drink; Num said, "Okay you tip my friend hundred baht." (Cheap little bugger--Always looking out for my money--Or protecting his own interests?
A wie'd and said, sorry, he had to go. It was starting time of another chuk-wow contest at Crazy Pub.

My observations are similar to your's Fatman41. Whether the person has a good heart is at the top of the list of their discussion. It also seems to be the thing they quickly tell others such as taxi drivers, service people, etc. This seems logical because it reflects how they are treated by the customer and what others can expect. Whether the Farang drinks or not and how much also seems to be near the top of the list. Again, this can impact how they are treated. I also hear comments about how the Farang dresses especially if it defies the Thai norm of "dressed up"= money and "not dressed up"= no money.

Fatman wrote: "But I am amazed at just how many prefer to go out and shag the arse off an attractive ladyboy. Having had it made quite clear to me that 'I am man, no gay, no ladyboy' ..."

I have frequently received similar responses from straight-appearing Thai guys. But I don't believe it's a situation limited to Thailand. Many men who consider themselves otherwise "straight" that I've met in US and UK have no qualms about patronizing a drag bar and engaging the "ladies" alone or in groups. It doesn't threaten their masculinity to get a blow job under these circumstances. But they would never be caught dead in a gay bar (this is where they differ from their Thai contemporaries).

For gays, ladyboys are either courted or avoided. At Babylon, for example, they don't appear in high demand. In Soi 4, however, they are more numerous but no where near as popular as the masculine young men.

Yes, I'm sure you're right, Fatman, to suggest that the farang's jai dii or lack of it is important to these boys. We should all aspire to be jai dii in the best sense of the term. Who but a disturbed person would seriously want to be unkind or mean? But there is another term the Thais use, which is jai awn (low tone). Perhaps not surprisingly, I have never seen it mentioned on a board like this. It translates as soft-hearted or easily-put-upon, and has the same mildly negative connotations in Thai culture as it does in the West. In over a year of living full-time in Thailand I have met plenty of jai dii farangs but I have also met the jai awn variety (who, needless to say, think of themselves as jai dii). In their efforts to please their boys they go way overboard in splashing out money on gifts, give up much of their own independence to do only what the boys want to do and usually profess extreme admiration for all things Thai. Such behaviour does not command true respect. I have no idea if the boys use the jai awn term among themselves. Probably not. But I'm pretty sure that, when they congratulate a farang on being jai dii, they are often secretly rubbing their hands because they know they have found a jai awn one.

Well said, there are so many DELUDED ones.

MEANING : Jai Awn ( or Jai Onn ) = give in; yield; comply; meek; soft-hearted; submissive; weak; sensitive

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I have no idea if the boys use the jai awn term among themselves. Probably not.

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Of course, they do. Unlike sextoys or sex machines some people may think they are, they are human afterall.

And surely, some farangs find some boys very submissive as well. Jai Awn mak mak :geek:

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or whether they need a good shower

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This comes up again again amongst Thais when talking about Farang. One guy I first met in Pattaya when "Thai Boys" had just opened (it's gone now) reckoned he could tell one nationality from another just by smell. There was even one nationality that he avoided if at all possible as he said they smelt the worst of the lot. I met up with him recently and we had to leave a shop in The Royal Garden Mall because he'd smelt a group of his least favourite nationality as soon as he entered.

My Thai boyfriend has just moved into a new rented room. He's had to clean the whole place twice because, as he says "Farang, stinky" had been there before him.

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Originally Posted by Kun Jon

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or whether they need a good shower

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This comes up again again amongst Thais when talking about Farang. One guy I first met in Pattaya when "Thai Boys" had just opened (it's gone now) reckoned he could tell one nationality from another just by smell. There was even one nationality that he avoided if at all possible as he said they smelt the worst of the lot. I met up with him recently and we had to leave a shop in The Royal Garden Mall because he'd smelt a group of his least favourite nationality as soon as he entered.

My Thai boyfriend has just moved into a new rented room. He's had to clean the whole place twice because, as he says "Farang, stinky" had been there before him.

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More a difference of cultures, I guess. Europeans don't bathe as often as the Thai (or, sadly enough far too many in the US) and are less likely to use a deoderant. Cologne can disguise the stink, but people still smell if they don't bathe enough. I'm sure farangs DO smell to the Thai.

I read somewhere before I made my first trip to LOS that it was a good idea to stop eating red meat a couple of weeks before traveling there if one wanted to lessen their overall body odor, and avoid it while there. It worked for me. That's not scientific research, I admit -- but on my second trip I began eating beef after I was there a week or so, and my friend noticed. Him being polite it took some prying to get him to admit it, but he noticed.

Normally I'd say "I do NOT 'sweat,' I glisten!" but let's face it -- while moving about in the LOS, some of us (my hand is up) are rarely wearing dry clothes for more than a few minutes!

Sorry, a bit off topic here, but if it helps anyone with their BS there...

Thai can smell bad but it's generally only the homeless/crazy people living on the street.

I passed a family of Euro-somethings yesterday at Chatuchak that were parting the crowd with their stench. They all looked clean, must have a hotel room with water and free soap, what gives, don't they smell themselves?

I have found that Sure solid sport works well on me but I have not found it in Thailand. I bought a supply on my last US trip but I am down to my last one. Anyone ever see Sure deodorant in Thailand?

Fatman, I like your style and enjoy your postings.. You have a different take on things and have both feet on the ground..

We have to be careful with generalizing (I know as I am sometimes guilty myself) and break things down a bit..

Straight boys (men) talk about pussy and/or lady boys.. If they talk about us, it is about how much baht.. One straight regular
would bottom like the best of them but I had to promise not to tell..I am sure he told his buddies how he topped me but maybe
he would say we didn't have sex, so he would look butcher.. Straight boys talk sports, especially football but pussy is #1..

Gay boys talk about boys/men and of course about the money.. some talk about us like we are boyfriends/lovers and some
talk about endowments and abilities... Hair styles is another big topic as well as best face creams and how does my butt look in
these pants? ...

Lady boys talk about beauty, men, boys , clothes, shoes, makeup, hormones, shoes, their straight boyfriends (how a straight boy/man
can believe he is straight when he makes love to a feminine boy is a cultural wonder), shoes, and how much money and how do I look?...

Most of the ones i know gossip about and bad mouth their neighbours lol

bao-bao is a bit hesitant in the way he puts forward his suggestion about red meat, but, though I have no scientific research to prove the matter, I think he's on to an important point. Doubtless, the major hygiene problem for a westerner in Thailand is the perspiration caused by the heat, which we are not used to; but, since perspiration is a waste-disposal function of the body, what exactly our sweat smells like is going to be heavily influenced by what we eat and drink. There's plenty of empirical evidence that it increases in pungency with a meat diet.

(Anecdote - NOT scientific. Years ago I read an interview with Nureyev in which he said that, for energy reasons, he lived almost entirely on steaks - enormous quantities, if I remember rightly. Some time later I was talking to someone who had been introduced to Nureyev - at a social occasion, I understood, not as he came off stage from a performance - and he said he gave off a strong animal scent - "Like the lion house at the zoo".)

Frequent showering will help, but I don't think we should kid ourselves that, even after a good shower, we are not going to smell like a farang to a Thai who is very close to us. Inevitably, our bodies are going to smell to some extent of what went into their making.

To take the point further. Because of the difference in diet, there is a considerable difference in smell between the urine and faeces of a Thai and those of a westerner - if you have doubts about the cause of this difference in smell, think 'asparagus'! The faeces of meat-eaters are much stronger and more pungent than those of people who eat a largely vegetable and cereal diet. I also think cheese and dairy products intensify faecal smells. In other words, a western evacuation can pollute the place for hours for a Thai, especially in a small condo or a hotel room where the bathroom leads straight into the living room/bedroom. The only answer has to be care with ventilation, scrupulous cleaning of the toilet basin with bleach or disinfectant, perhaps a squirt or two of those wretched sprays that smell fouler than your farts, and a determination to move around the world with a bottom as polished and hygienic as their own are. It's a bit of a hassle, but I'll do anything not be a "stinky farang"!

Additional point: we should also take our cue from the near-obsessive concern most Thais have for foreskin hygiene.

Well, if that isn't calling a spade a spade, what is? And, by the way, I am NOT a surreptitiously campaigning vegetarian.

I was really just putting my two satang in on the body odor thing, but have already learned not to try to lecture THIS crowd - HA! If you Google "body odor and red meat" you'll get a screenfull.

I agree with you, piston10 - sweat is just the body's way of cooling and dumping waste, so it makes sense. I'm not a vegetarian, either, although in the interest of perhaps a few more years I'm eating very little red meat. As an added bonus, my body odor is next to nil.

My friends there eat healthier than I do, as a rule, and certainly have less body odor than many of the farang I pass by there. There must be SOMEthing to the logic.

Until I figure it out, it's frequent showers there for me. It's a nice custom.

It is not only diet that affects perspiration (sweating/glistening/glowing or whatever you like to call it) and thus body odor but also the number of apocrine glands a person has. When sweat, etc, first evaporates on the skin there is very little smell on a normal healthy person but it is the build up of stale sweat that smells bad! The smell occurs when bacteria that live on the skin act on the sweat produced by the apocrine glands - the glands that cause the bad smell.
Certain racial groups smell less than others because they have fewer apocrine glands. Asians sweat just as much as other races but have fewer apocrine glands. Roughly 50% of Korean people have no apocrine glands at all and only about 10% of Japanese people have any underarm odor at all. I believe that in the past, Japanese men with body odor were exempt from military service!
Recently, Japanese geneticists have identified the link between ear-wax and sweating. Apparently, Africans and Europeans have wet earwax and thus sweat a lot, while Asians have dry earwax and don't sweat as much. See http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/29/scien ... yt&emc=rss

Ummm, ok, here goes. There ARE racial differences in SMELL. It has got to be more than diet. Anyone who has hot sweaty sex black guys knows what I am talking about. I believe we do smell to Thais, but lets face it, Thais are smell phobic about body smells, but don't seem to give a damn about air pollution. In any case, do take showers ..

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Originally Posted by piston10

" ...To take the point further. Because of the difference in diet, there is a considerable difference in smell between the urine and faeces of a Thai and those of a westerner ... and a determination to move around the world with a bottom as polished and hygienic as their own are ... "

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Well, to let everyone on to a little secret . . . he cleans mine!. Saves water as well.
And after Piston's faecal tome above, thank god he does.

I always lovingly remember PeterUK's long and 'moving' story about Thais and farting, but I cannot find it anywhere, unfortunately. I hunker back into the back stage on this uncomfortable topic, basking in the glory of my guy's statement once that one of the things he likes best about me is that I am " ... velly clean ... " and " ... smell good ... " ( for a farang :compress: )

Cheers ...

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Originally Posted by piston10

And, by the way, I am NOT a surreptitiously campaigning vegetarian.

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Because of my almost-lapse-free vegetarian diet I exude a smell which is a tantalising combination of cabbage and broccoli. It drives the boys crazy. The last one was able to return to normal life after only a few sessions with a psychiatrist.

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Originally Posted by PeterUK

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Originally Posted by piston10

And, by the way, I am NOT a surreptitiously campaigning vegetarian.

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Because of my almost-lapse-free vegetarian diet I exude a smell which is a tantalising combination of cabbage and broccoli. It drives the boys crazy. The last one was able to return to normal life after only a few sessions with a psychiatrist.

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In the past year it seems the price of everything has more than doubled (All blamed on petrol prices--Yeah, right.) but beef prices seem to have trippled--So I've cut down on beef: less than once a week, and eat more fruits & vegetables. Recently, I've noticed my flatulence smells like chocolate and feces like peanut butter. I live in mortal fear of farting near the mall play-area, being chased down by a herd of yard-apes--And accused of using a demented form of aromatherapy to lure innocent kiddies: like a poopy pied piper?...No, of being hacked to pieces with Tonka Toys and Hump-Me Elmo dolls by candy-crazed cannibalistic kindergarteners!... Remember Sebastian in Suddenly Last Summer.
I used to adore Reese's Peanut Butter Cups & now can not abide them! I know how Dracula must feel when served garlic bread!

And then I turn around and wear a coconut-lime scent in Thailand--Which, I suppose, has about the same effect as Peter's cabbage and broccoli. (Looking for a cilantro and basil scented soap.)

Seriously: A old Thai friend I'd know about an hour & I Were once having dinner outside at Caf├й Royal.
A strange num walked by, on the far side of the Soi, looked at my friend, waved and thrust his index finger under his nose.
Could it be they have a pre-conceived idea 'we' all smell bad--And we, in turn, believe (say.) none of them do; even though most of us...Thai and Westerner...certainly know better?