10 REASONS CAMBODIA "SHOULD" TOP YOUR GAY TRAVEL WISH LIST

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This article on the Towleroad board about Gay Cambodia is more about two gay guys in Cambodia for just 5 days. The pics are not bad.

However it does remind me once again of the Killing Fields and Genocide Museum, a shock to the system .It gives a vivid example of what Cambodians went through
during the Khmer years

quote Cambodia is beautiful, but its violent past is never farтАФmillions of landmines are scattered across the countryside, remnants of civil war and the Khmer Rouge. On our first night in Phnom Penh, as we walked along the Mekong River, a wild American ex-pat approached us, wanting to know what we were going to see and do while in town. When we told him weтАЩd be visiting the Choeung Ek Killing Fields and the Tuol Sleng Genocide Museum in one day, he said, тАЬItтАЩs a nightmare.тАЭ And it was, but you shouldnтАЩt skip them. From the bone fragments still emerging from Choeung EkтАЩs dusty soil to the eyes staring out from the Tuol Sleng prisoner portraitsтАФthere are a million ways that these places will shatter you.

I had never heard of Towlerroad. After a bit of checking around, I assume this is the article -

http://www.towleroad.com/2015/03/gay-tr ... bodia.html

The headings are on the pithy side - "History is Neat!" "History is Devastating!" As for the latter, the Tuol Sleng Museum and the Killing Fields are indeed 'must sees' despite being dreadful reminders of the millions who were massacred in those few years after 1975.

But in talking of this violent past, it's noticeable that no mention is made of the conditions which gave rise to the Khmer Rouge atrocities. Sihanouk does not come out of that period covered in glory, but the secret and illegal 4-year war between 1969 and 1973 waged by Kissinger and Nixon totally unsanctioned by Congress unquestionably created the conditions which pushed the Khmer Rouge into power. No mention of the Americans secretly funding the Khmer Rouge exiles on the Thai border in the early 1980s. Nor does history look kindly on the United Nations and the rest of the world which continued to recognise the Khmer Rouge as the legitimate rulers of Cambodia until 1993 even though that government had ceased to exist in 1979. And talking of the UN, it is generally agreed that it was the UN-backed humanitarian agencies which brought AIDS to that lovely land.

The millions of landmines in Cambodia is mentioned. Perhaps no need to be mentioned in this article but everyone should remember that it is Laos which has the dubious distinction of being the most bombed country in history per capita. The 9 year secret war waged by the US against Laos saw the equivalent of one planeload of bombs being dropped every 8 minutes during every 24 hours in all 9 years. Almost one third of these bombs - most of the cluster variety - failed to detonate. Over 16 years clearing these bombs the US has spent precisely the same amount as it did in just 3 days of the bombing. Approx. one quarter of all Lao villages remain contaminated with these lethal unexploded weapons and children and still being killed and maimed each year.

In enjoying the beauty and glories of our neighbours, we should never forget the role played by western nations in all but destroying them.

Fountainhall I am surprised that I did not include the link. It was intended. I had downloaded it ,but as you get old!

Many of today's children in Cambodia coming into late teens and younger have many shocking stories to tell. Few do to tourists.

But they survived, maybe many wish they hadn't. Poverty is far more widespread in Cambodia than in Thailand.

You mentioned the stories of Laos.Even more dangerous than the Cambodian side.
I visited the war Museum in HCM and left that staggered. Many of the comments and descriptions were written by the NVA but even so, a very leveling experience.

When I was in Cambodia around 10 years ago, almost none of those I met would refer to the Khmer Rouge by name. Those years, rather like the religious conflict in Northern Ireland, were referred to by a term similar to "the troubles" (although I cannot now recall the precise word).

When I moved to Asia in early 1979, one of the first books I read was William Shawcross' harrowing "Sideshow: Kissinger, Nixon and the Destruction of Cambodia". Although Shawcross has since withdrawn some of his conclusions, it remains a hideous indictment of a secret war which was eventually to result in the rise of a fanatical group adhering to a hideous dogma. In Laos, the US farmed out its murdering schemes to the CIA and other independent contractors. Were you aware that the CIA built the second largest city in the country at Long Tien with 50,000 inhabitants, mostly Hmong tribespeople. You would find it on no map even even though during the war it boasted one of the busiest airports in the world. It still remains off limits to foreigners. After the covert war, the US abandoned its Hmong allies. Most were later killed.

A film made in 2008 "The Most Secret Place on Earth" and shown around the world first brought this atrocity to light. Its director, Marc Eberle, says -

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"Laos was the progenitor of the way America fights wars in the 21st century . . . Outsourcing the war to private companies, gathering public support by falsifying intelligence and documents, embedded journalism and automated warfare including the use of so-called 'smart weapons', all these methods were first tested in Laos."

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Historian Alfred McCoy adds -

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"We destroyed a whole civilization, we wiped it off the map. We incinerated, atomized human remains in this air war and what happened in the end? We lost."

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Originally Posted by fountainhall

The headings are on the pithy side - "History is Neat!" "History is Devastating!"

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Still waiting to see the ten reasons why it should top a GAY travel wish list, as opposed to ten reasons why it should top everybody's travel wish list.

I didn't start the thread and had never heard of the blog before. Here, though, is its list -

1. Phnom Penh is just gay enough.
2. YouтАЩll live like a king or queen on a dime.
3. Phnom PenhтАЩs shopping game is tight (and affordable!).
4. History is neat!
5. History is devastating.
6. DO get a fish pedicure in Siem Reap
7. DONтАЩT bother with the тАЬcultural showsтАЭ at Phnom PenhтАЩs National Museum.
8. DO be adventurous with your eating
9. DONтАЩT miss the sunrise at Angkor Wat.
10. DO pick up a copy of Ancient Angkor

Frankly I find it totally weird! Why would anyone make it a gay recommendation when there is only one gay-related item. Plus it includes one definite DON'T! Maybe the answer is in the intro

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Thailand is fantastic, and they say Vietnam is everything, too, but I'm telling you straight up: Cambodia has everything an LGBT traveler would love. In fact, I'm counting the days until I can go back. My boyfriend and I spent five days in Angkor Wat, Siem Reap, and Phnom Penh this January, though the country deserves a lot more time. Check out the 10 things I learned as a gay man passing through, and move Cambodia to the top of your "Must See" list right now.

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But nothing there specifically targeted at gay travellers either!

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Originally Posted by fountainhall

Maybe the answer is in the intro.

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No, the answer is in nature of the OP and his current campaign of Restoring Niceness To SGT.

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Originally Posted by fountainhall

After the covert war, the US abandoned its Hmong allies. Most were later killed.

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I read somewhere that many of them were allowed to settle in the USA (in Lao, they would have been killed).

I haven't been to the Killing Fields due to lack of public transport. In addition, I read somewhere that the display can at best be called in appropriate (denying proper burial to those who were killed), and most of the money goes abroad as the Killing fields are operated by a foreign company (similar to Angkor Wat).

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Originally Posted by lonelywombat

Many of today's children in Cambodia coming into late teens and younger have many shocking stories to tell.

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LW, The Khmer Rouge era was between 1975тАУ79 which would put the population that was alive through that in their late 30's or more probable 40's that remember or even older than that.

Surfcrest

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Originally Posted by fountainhall

When I was in Cambodia around 10 years ago, almost none of those I met would refer to the Khmer Rouge by name. Those years, rather like the religious conflict in Northern Ireland, were referred to by a term similar to "the troubles" (although I cannot now recall the precise word)

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My experience dealing with three generations was they always referred to Pol Pot [era] . It is still discussed with passion daily. My experiences are in the main from the communes of Battambang. I have no doubt that this happens all over Cambodia.

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Originally Posted by christianpfc

I haven't been to the Killing Fields due to lack of public transport. In addition, I read somewhere that the display can at best be called in appropriate (denying proper burial to those who were killed), and most of the money goes abroad as the Killing fields are operated by a foreign company (similar to Angkor Wat).

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I visited the Killing Fields and Genocide Museum which are both located in Phnom Penh . I cannot understand the LACK OF TRANSPORT. it was easily available . From memory I went by tuktuk.

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Originally Posted by kommentariat

No, the answer is in nature of the OP and his current campaign of Restoring Niceness To SGT.

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It may surprise you the number of enquiries that are still being requested. The fact that a gay site publishes a report from a gay person ,that is no any different to dodger or other members posting reports of trips,visits or train trips ,on this gay forum, sawatdee.

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Originally Posted by lonelywombat

My experience dealing with three generations was they always referred to Pol Pot [era] . It is still discussed with passion daily.

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You have jogged my memory and are absolutely correct. Apologies!

I read no other article on that blogsite, but it did remind me of one I saw in May 2013. I know the date because I entered into a correspondence with the editor/publisher, Steve Rohrlick. The blog's name was Gaytravel.com and I took issue with an article purported to have been by a correspondent named Bryan Kosarek who had just visited Bangkok. In a way it was rather like an article Beachlover might have written. Bryan reviewed only two hotels - the St. Regis and the Peninsula, but there was absolutely nothing in the reviews that could not have been found on the hotels' own websites! He talked of visiting a famous spa, but had forgotten its name!! He talked of visiting lots of famous temples but the only one mentioned in the article was the Tiger Temple. That just happens to be located 2 1/2 hours outside the city! In discussing the gay bar scene he mentioned "Snow Cowboy" as a must-see! Absolutely no mention of Silom or Sois 2 and 4.

The whole thing was a huge and very obvious fake. Yet the publisher insisted Bryan had just come back from two weeks in Thailand! B/S!

Looking at the site now, I see it still offers almost no detailed "gay" information for Bangkok. The section headed LGBT Scene in Bangkok is so general, offers no specific information on bars, saunas, massage. clubs etc. and says just this -

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Bangkok is an extremely tolerant destination for Gays and Lesbians, as sexuality is an integrated part of their practice of Buddhism. Gay harassment is virtually unheard of, and Bangkok is often referred to as the gay capital of Asia. Whatever your scene, Bangkok has it. The gayborhood is centered in Silom, though there are gay-specific venues in Sukhumvit and down Khao San Road as well. Affordable and often over-the-top, a gay-centric visit to Bangkok will no doubt impress.

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Attached to that generalisation is a photo that looks far more likely to have come from the carnival in Rio -

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/...360_350_c1.jpg

So it's not just individual blogs that have misleading headings and spout little to do with those headings. Official sites that have high-end advertising also get away with that nonsense.

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Originally Posted by fountainhall

The section headed LGBT Scene in Bangkok is so general, offers no specific information on bars, saunas, massage. clubs etc. and says just this -

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Bangkok is an extremely tolerant destination for Gays and Lesbians, as sexuality is an integrated part of their practice of Buddhism. Gay harassment is virtually unheard of, and Bangkok is often referred to as the gay capital of Asia. Whatever your scene, Bangkok has it. The gayborhood is centered in Silom, though there are gay-specific venues in Sukhumvit and down Khao San Road as well. Affordable and often over-the-top, a gay-centric visit to Bangkok will no doubt impress.

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So it's not just individual blogs that have misleading headings and spout little to do with those headings. Official sites that have high-end advertising also get away with that nonsense.

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The reality being that Bangkok in a few areas may tolerate gays and lesbians