New trend тАУ White Asians in. White Europeans out.

Fantastic article outlining the new trends evolving in relationships between Thais and foreigners...

It sounds like Thais are trying to distance themselves from the image of hooking up with foreigners for financial reasons. тАЬWhite AsiansтАЭ or "Far Eastern Asians" are replacing тАЬwhite EuropeansтАЭ as the leading object of desire because there are more similarities and is less negative stigma associated with them.

Have to admit... it bodes well for me! Probably explains why I get so many Thai boys hitting on me in Bangkok too.

It's a really long article and there's five main sections... IтАЩve only copied the gay section below as this is most relevant but the other sections are also very interesting and worth reading.

One section talks about how more Western men are migrating to Isaan but the role of money often underpins insecurities in their relationships. It says more younger Western men moving to Isaan now and they are more likely to invest in building their lives and integrating with the community and culture there.

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From: http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/investi ... -of-desire

The new politics of desire

Sexuality meets globalisation - Thais are getting involved in more international relationships but the dynamics are changing

The face of Thai sexuality is changing in small fault lines that may soon represent a seismic shift in the way the Land of Smiles is viewed.

While the perception of international relationships here in some Western eyes may be of older, overweight, oversexed tourists trawling bars for Thai partners, the post-Vietnam era cliche of American servicemen on R&R is being challenged by and is also accelerating new trends.

The sexualisation of Thais in foreign eyes has had an effect on international partnerships, as Thais try to distance themselves from the misperception of being tied to a foreign partner for monetary reasons.

As citizens of a middle-income country where status is important, middle class Thais have much to lose or gain by being involved with a foreign partner. In this light, several trends are emerging. Thais seeking foreign partners are more often gazing over the fence at East Asian partners. The "white Asian" ideal is gradually replacing the "white European"...

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THE NEW GAY MALE

This look to the Far East is especially apparent on the gay scene.

"Asians are more similar in culture," says Beer, a 32-year-old dentist. "It's easier to communicate. Their way of thinking is easier to understand."

Beer would still consider dating Thai or Western men, but he is largely attracted to "looks, way of thinking and status" _ which equates well with Far Eastern men. "If I love him enough I can adapt to anything," he adds. "But you simplify your life and there's less to overcome if you have similar status."

Ken, a 32-year-old travel writer, still prefers Westerners, and says he finds the Korean look "too fake and homogenous".

But when asked to name celebrities he finds attractive, he cites Nadech "Barry" Kugimiya and Pope Thanawat, who both have a "white Asian" look, as Mr Kang describes it.

Some gay Thais, just like straight people, enter relationships with foreigners to improve their socioeconomic status.

Thailand's position between wealthier and poorer countries in the region, he argues, shapes new partner preferences.

Mr Kang's research focuses largely on the changing choice of partners for Thai gay middle class males.

He loosely defines the middle class as earning between 7,000 and 70,000 baht a month.

He cites four main reasons for the gradual lean towards the East rather than West: the regional flow of media and commodities, the internet (notably sites such as gayromeo.com and fridae.com, both used by Thai men to find Asian partners), discount airlines (especially AirAsia) and regional alignments and politics.

Gay tourism has expanded greatly in the region in recent years, helped along by circuit parties that help connect Southeast and East Asian party-goers.

"East Asian partners are associated with high economic status, modernity and cultural similarity," Mr Kang says.

They do not have the nergative status attached to many Anglo-Saxons.

"Even when middle class Thais have farang partners, they often hide this fact from family or friends.

"Other Asians can be interpreted as friends while farang are more likely coded as sexual partners. Farang are sexualised via the very Western gazes that sexualise Thais."

According to Mr Kang, the list of partner preferences mirrors the economic status of its citizens so that Japanese, Koreans and Hongkongese are prioritised over Chinese Singaporeans and Taiwanese, who are preferred to Chinese Malaysians, mainland Chinese and Vietnamese, while other Asians, especially Burmese and Cambodians, are considered undesirable.

This results in some dissatisfaction when image doesn't match the reality, such as in relationships with Korean men, who in Korean soap operas are seen as soft, sweet and romantic but in life can also be aggressive, impatient and stubborn, says Mr Kang...

Read the rest: http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/investi ... -of-desire
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How vulgar! It's like they're shopping for a shirt. I'm going to vomit now.

Wow what a interesting article. Thanks for sharing. I'm asian to and can relate to what is described in the article. :hello1:

You see more and more of these "Far East Asians" hanging out at the Babylon. They show little interest in the Farang guests but instead are scoping out the Thai boys (and each other). Damn! More competition. :rolling:

While the article has some merit and is describing the increased ability of Asians to travel and meet other Asians, it doesn't really point out people's sexual interests. Many Asians whether Thai or other Asians are more attracted to westerners and don't want to have sex or a relationship with other Asians. While other Asians prefer Asians. I think the Asians they describe in the article are those who for the most part prefer other Asians, and even those discriminate among some Asians.

This might turn out to be a double edged sword for the Thai boys themselves. Most of us know that most of them have several 'boyfriends' on the go at any one time, happily collecting their monthly chastity cheque. Now for a European or an American a trip to Thailand involves quite a bit of planning as well as money. We usually know months in advance when we're arriving and therefore tell the boyfriend to expect us.
However if the Falang hapens to live in say Guangzhou then he can be in Bangkok in about two hours, and what with Airasia flights springing up all over Asia it costs very little money.
So I can see situations wher the Falang decides to surprise the Thai boyfreind only to find he's up to something he is not supposed to be.

It's of little consequence for those of us who have faced up to reality and rent our sexual companions by the hour. It may matter to those who still live on Koh Fantasy and believe they have a boyfriend.

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Originally Posted by thonglor55

It's of little consequence for those of us who have faced up to reality and rent our sexual companions by the hour. It may matter to those who still live on Koh Fantasy and believe they have a boyfriend.

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and for those of us who have lived with with our boyfriends for years, it is of no consequence whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by arsenal

This might turn out to be a double edged sword for the Thai boys themselves. Most of us know that most of them have several 'boyfriends' on the go at any one time, happily collecting their monthly chastity cheque. Now for a European or an American a trip to Thailand involves quite a bit of planning as well as money. We usually know months in advance when we're arriving and therefore tell the boyfriend to expect us.
However if the Falang hapens to live in say Guangzhou then he can be in Bangkok in about two hours, and what with Airasia flights springing up all over Asia it costs very little money.
So I can see situations wher the Falang decides to surprise the Thai boyfreind only to find he's up to something he is not supposed to be.

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True... But I think the article is primarily referring to middle-class Thais, not the moneyboy/gogo boy scene. In the working boy/girl scene they might take whatever comes.

Having said that, I have seen a little bit of similar presence in gogo boys. The one gogo boy I've slept with told me he prefers Asians over Caucasians and stated a strong preference for non-Thai Asians... similar to the trends in the article.

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Originally Posted by rincondog

While the article has some merit and is describing the increased ability of Asians to travel and meet other Asians, it doesn't really point out people's sexual interests. Many Asians whether Thai or other Asians are more attracted to westerners and don't want to have sex or a relationship with other Asians. While other Asians prefer Asians. I think the Asians they describe in the article are those who for the most part prefer other Asians, and even those discriminate among some Asians.

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You're right. There's definitely some Asians with a genuine preference for Caucasians over other Asians. I think they're in the minority but they do exist.

Yes, Asians do discriminate a bit among Asians from different countries (nothing wrong with that). I have a tendency to like Thais and Taiwanese and the guy I'm dating now isn't Thai.

The last bit of the article is interesting, reflecting on how the influence of societal factors such as the media, attitudes and pop culture work together with our individual preference to reach the "idea of beauty" in our eyes.

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Excerpt from: http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/investi ... -of-desire

LOVE BITES

The idea of beauty changes. Look at Peter Paul Rubens paintings to get an idea of the plump white model of feminine beauty in Europe during the Baroque period. These were the women of the aristocracy. After the Industrial Revolution, plumpness in women who didn't see the sun became less of a sign of status, and athletic and tanned became more desirable, since these were the women who had the leisure time and money to afford beach vacations and exercise, markers of high status. In parts of India and the Middle East, plumpness is still considered a mark of desirability in women _ and also in men since in patriarchal societies it can identify propertied men of means.

Love, as they say, is blind. But societal factors play more of a role than we admit in whom we find attractive. The import of foreign media, popular culture and products; the lower price of air travel; local media depictions of beauty and sexuality; and the power of internet dating and social networks are combining to make foreigners less foreign to Thais.

Part of the reason for the changing sense of beauty in Thailand, however, are the monetary ways in which romantic relationships have long been viewed here, as well as the search for status.

The casting of light-skinned and East Asian-looking actors and models, the plethora of cosmetics and beauty treatments designed to make women and, increasingly, men look whiter reflects and accelerates this trend.

Thailand importing media, cosmetics and fashion from Korea and Japan means that these nationalities are increasingly associated with wealth, beauty and modernity.

Nevertheless, regardless of trends, aesthetics, or income, beauty remains in the eye of the beholder.

Individual preferences will always be unique.

But as globalisation, urbanisation and industrialisation become more pervasive in Thailand, affecting media, fashion and lifestyle, our sense of attractiveness will change just as tastes in music or foods change. As Dusit says, ''I don't think about where she's from. I think about where we might go together.''

Read the whole thing: http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/investi ... -of-desire

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Beautifully written...

I find this whole concept just incredibly shallow. It reminds me of the movie The Ugly Truth, where an OCD woman goes on a blind date. While sitting at the cafe, she rips out her 10 point checklist for a perfect partner, his background check, employment history, etc. He's in complete shock while she starts grading him. "Well, I see you have excellent car insurance, which probably means you're quite safety conscious, and a forward thinker, which is great!", etc., etc.

That's what this article reminds me of. "Sorry, can't date you because you're white. Can't date you either because you're too dark". That's totally missing the entire point of sharing your life with someone.

Thank fuck Kim has enough self confidence to not feel the need to change his skin color.

Of course Asians prefer Asians - why do you think there are so many Asians?

However this article is, generally speaking, irrelevant to the majority of users of this board. The article talks about middle class Thais - not usually seen working in the gogo bars of Pattaya or Bangkok or selling their flesh on Gay Romeo.

Furthermore, if Thai boys who are so desperate to want my money think that bleaching their skin white is an attractive attribute then they are mistaken. Give me someone with a healthy suntan, a nice smile (without teeth braces), a lightly muscled body, no piercings, no tattoos and who is not constantly fiddling with his f***ing phone then I will be happy as a pig in shit.

Thanks to the largely rural, poor economy of this country there are still sufficient numbers of "my type" to satisfy my short-time requirements until I'm in my box. What happens after that and what current trends amongs the upwardly mobile, pretentious, fashion conscious wannabes is of no consequence.

:thebirdman:

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Originally Posted by cdnmatt

I find this whole concept just incredibly shallow.

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I think it's just human nature. People naturally have varying preferences and often these preferences can be influenced by society. The article is talking more about changing preferences than prejudices.

In Asia, the issue of status and money can be a significant factor, as unromantic as it may seem. People are perpetually occupied by financial survival and trying to improve their standard of living. If you're a poor guy and have any sense, you do NOT want to be marrying another poorer person with limited means and struggling the rest of your life. You want someone who, together with youself, can earn and provide a good standard of living to enjoy.

For me, money's not an issue but I have a pretty good lifestyle so it's naturally easier to get along with someone who appreciates and is comfortable with that. If I'm with a working class guy in Bangkok and take him to say, the Sky Bar on top of the Lebua Hotel, he's probably going to feel a bit uncomfortable. If I'm with a middle-class guy, he probably won't bat an eyelid and will really enjoy the experience as I do.

As for skin colour... I don't have the same prejudices many Asians have as I grew up in the West. I like both the lighter skinned Asians and the slightly darker skinned ones. I find the slightly tanned skin some Thais have very sexy. Don't like the really dark ones or Indians. That's just a personal preference. Not a social thing. My parents (of the older generation) on the other hand would probably be slightly uncomfortable if I turned up with a really dark-skinned Asian but that's just them and their long-ingrained prejudices.

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Originally Posted by cdnmatt

Thank fuck Kim has enough self confidence to not feel the need to change his skin color.

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True... People need to learn to judge themselves by their own standards and not others'. My parents always used to stress out that I might feel inferior because I'm an Asian in a "white" country and said all sorts of unnecessary shit to compensate but they never needed to because I never felt that way at all. I was perfectly happy, did fine competing with bigger Aussie boys and barely noticed I was Asian when I was with my Aussie mates.

I would guess it's the hetero farang that need to worry. With China's incredable imbalance of males to females, The Chinese young men will flock to Thailand for the Thai girls. For gay partners they should have no problem finding many desparate guys at home.

Definitely more a middle class thing. My Thai ex was from a middle class family and he has a office job with middle class friends. All his Thai gay friends prefer asians.

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Originally Posted by Beachlover

The one gogo boy I've slept with told me he prefers Asians over Caucasians and stated a strong preference for non-Thai Asians... similar to the trends in the article.

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If you'd slept with a few more, you might have noticed another trend; gogo boys tell their punters what they think they want to hear.

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Originally Posted by PinkSilom

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Originally Posted by Beachlover

The one gogo boy I've slept with told me he prefers Asians over Caucasians and stated a strong preference for non-Thai Asians... similar to the trends in the article.

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If you'd slept with a few more, you might have noticed another trend; gogo boys tell their punters what they think they want to hear.

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Sorry Beachy but Pink Silom scoes on that one!................... :laughing3: :laughing3:


New balls please!............. :laughing3:

Also, I know for a fact that certain males and females are prepared, especially in Thailand, to forego looks for a good heart and security regards their personal and their immediate family's wellbeing.

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Originally Posted by PinkSilom

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Originally Posted by Beachlover

The one gogo boy I've slept with told me he prefers Asians over Caucasians and stated a strong preference for non-Thai Asians... similar to the trends in the article.

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If you'd slept with a few more, you might have noticed another trend; gogo boys tell their punters what they think they want to hear.

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Yeah, I already knew that and naturally suspected that might be the case when he first told me. But he's told me enough about why he prefers Asians as long as they are not Thai for me to believe he's not just saying it to please me. He's told me about a lot of the customers and relationships he's had (no discretion there!).

I saw him a few times and we have been distant friends for some time. He left the gogo bar and has opened his own shop now. He's really got no reason to lie to me and has never asked me for anything other than whatever I gave him after taking him off and for advice... so yeah, there was more to it and I didn't take what he said at face value.

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Originally Posted by kquill

I know for a fact that certain males and females are prepared, especially in Thailand, to forego looks for a good heart and security regards their personal and their immediate family's wellbeing.

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Totally agree! That's not going to change.

I know people are naturally defensive but the article is just reporting on a trend. It applies less to the working class/money boy scene and more to the middle-class scene where money is less of a factor (or not significant) in relationships... as it says in the intro.

It's a good article. It merely reporting trends and focused on a group of Thais (middle class).

I live in the San Francisco Bay Area. There are tons of Asian here (of different countries of origin) that are sticky couple in any combination that you can think of in terms of physical appearances (white-asian, dark-asian, clean cut, bear types, etc.) And then, of course, there are the Asian who only prefer non-asian (westerners, african-american, latinos, etc.) In both of these cases, and of those that I know personally, the preference have nothing to do with financial - both parties are well off.

Of course, there are Thais who prefer to be with the "white Westerners". Of course, there are others (westerners or non-westerners) who prefer the "non-white-asian". Whether the choice is because of physical attraction, social economic factors, or combination of both is debatable. I think it is a choice that is influenced by social condition (on both parties).

We, in general, like to think that we are smart, independent thinkers and can make decisions ourselves without anyone telling us what to do. I think, in fact, we are influenced by social media and pop cultures more than we want to accept. For example, think about our choices when we buy clothing.

There is nothing wrong with "white-asian", and their chasers. In fact, I find some of them are quite attractive. However, my attraction scale still tends to lean for the "dark-non-white-asian". That's just me! :)

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Originally Posted by vpnoy

It's a good article. It merely reporting trends and focused on a group of Thais (middle class).

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Very subjective opinion: I think many or some of the working class aspire to be middle class and imitate their ways to appear so. Hence, the trend might grow in the working class too.

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Originally Posted by vpnoy

Of course, there are Thais who prefer to be with the "white Westerners". Of course, there are others (westerners or non-westerners) who prefer the "non-white-asian". Whether the choice is because of physical attraction, social economic factors, or combination of both is debatable. I think it is a choice that is influenced by social condition (on both parties).

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I think Asians who grow up outside Asia, like me are less influenced by prejudices present in Asia. Hence, they're more likely to pursue their genuine preference, less influenced by these societal factors. Unlike my parents and most of my relatives who grew up in Asia and can be a bit prejudiced towards darker-skinned Asians and go so far as to feel uncomfortable around Indians.

The world is shrinking and people of different cultures, religious beliefs, social levels, skin color, etc., have been bonding together in relationships at a growing pace, and this trend has been growing faster as the world gets smaller and won't stop any time soon. The days when an indian would only marry and indian are long behind us.

There are no noticable (or reliable) trends in my opinion where any given culture of people are becoming more attracted to those within their own cultural group, as quite the opposite is ocurring. People of completely different cultures are bonding together at an exponential rate which is a trend which can be observed and measured in all countries - and all cultures.

Regarding Asians and Westerners; I have known Asians who are attracted to other Asians - Asians who prefer Westerners, and any combination thereof. Frankly, my interactions with Asians has always led me to believe that they were much better at selecting a partner because of his or hers substance as a person (internal qualities) - versus Westerners who gravitate more to a persons physical appearance (external qualities). The Thais have extremely good eye sight when it comes to seeing the whole package (internal and external) and I don't think we'll see any reversal of this trend.

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Originally Posted by Dodger

The world is shrinking and people of different cultures, religious beliefs, social levels, skin color, etc., have been bonding together in relationships at a growing pace, and this trend has been growing faster as the world gets smaller and won't stop any time soon. The days when an indian would only marry and indian are long behind us.

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There are still strong bonds between people of the same race/culture/religion. When I studied in England, I observed that even second generation (i.e. born in the UK) Indians/Pakistanis/Bangladeshis socialise with each other more than with other races and students from China socialise with Chinese who were born in the UK (there were some stunners among them - both those from China and those born in the UK).

So I'm disadvantaged twice: I prefer to have sex (intercourse) with the same sex (gender), but of another race!

christianpfc wrote:

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So I'm disadvantaged twice: I prefer to have sex (intercourse) with the same sex (gender), but of another race!

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Ahh...but I view life as an adventure - not a destiny, and there's no such thing as "adventure" without a good dose of disadvantage.