Re: It isn't getting better
"Tragic" is the only appropriate word.
:crybaby:
Re: It isn't getting better
I followed the link to read the whole story and, yes, it is a horrible tragedy. But, worse than that were many of the comments that were posted. Many blamed the parents for allowing their son to dress as he did. Way too many just accepted that bullying has always gone on and that it always will so deal with it. The more I read the sadder I became. Ok, so maybe we will never stop all the bullying. But does that mean that we don't try? Getting better? Hard to see.
Re: It isn't getting better
This is horrible. You'd think that with the Internet now he would have found SOMEONE. He lived with no idea of his value and potential. He was a beautiful swan living in a world of sparrows. Very sad.
Dboy
Re: It isn't getting better
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dboy
You'd think that with the Internet now he would have found SOMEONE.
Dboy
Are you kidding me? Can you imagine a post he might make on some site on the internet that read "14 year old boy, straight A student, musical prodigy, seeks 'SOMEONE'". OMG!!! No one in his right mind is going to respond to that!!!
On the other hand, he might find "someone" but not exactly what you might be thinking of. Take a look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kt9fgDnm ... r_embedded
You just have to love the fact that in the latter case the defense attorney is going to use the "gay panic" ruse to get his client off. Judges and juries respond well to "gay panic" syndrome. The fact of the matter is that large numbers of people panic at the mere thought of anything gay, and even murder in such cases constitutes justifiable homicide in their minds.
And what if one of these young teens were sexually attracted to someone over 18? Horror of horrors!
Re: It isn't getting better
HAH, I didn't mean a personal ad. There's MSN Chat, there's chat within many online games (like world of warcraft), there are gay organizations for kids, there are psych forums for discussing personal issues, etc. Even something like attending Landmark Forum or learning meditation could have helped, who knows. The boy HAD a small circle of friends and it still wasn't enough. I sort-of agree though with part of what you're saying in that a kid wrapped up in this kind of suffering could be taken advantage of..that's not at all where I was going though. Most kids who want relationships are looking for other people their own age.
About the video..I had not heard about that case either. I just don't understand the hostility towards gays, so I really don't know what to say. I could offer a guess. US "morality" is based on christianity, which is full of guilt, shame, ignorance, etc. "Original sin" is one of the most horrible ideas I've ever heard of. If christianity has been a more enlightened religion, they might have included something like the "two spirit" concept of native american religion. A two spirit was a member of the tribe that had both male and female characteristics. Two spirits were INTEGRATED into the tribe, and VALUED for their uniqueness, not rejected. They often became a tribal Shaman.
And on the point above about blaming the parents, I see nothing wrong with letting an emo boy dress as an emo boy. Self-expression is not something that you should try to destroy. The healthy response is to express what you are rather than hiding.
Dboy
Re: It isn't getting better
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dboy
I just don't understand the hostility towards gays, so I really don't know what to say. I could offer a guess. US "morality" is based on christianity, which is full of guilt, shame, ignorance, etc. "Original sin" is one of the most horrible ideas I've ever heard of. If christianity has been a more enlightened religion...
As much as I'd like to blame Christianity, I think hostility towards gays is a natural human tendency when one is unfamiliar with the trait (of being gay), poorly exposed to the world and small minded. For example, in China there is much intolerance underlying hostility towards gay people. As used to be more the case in Singapore. And as is still the case in much of India. None of these countries features Christianity as a majority religion.
I think hostility is our most basic initial reaction to any type of person who is different and unfamiliar to us and who we personally see no appeal in and don't identify with. For example, we love Thais because they are sexy and charming. But lots of white extremists out there hate Asians, simply because they're different and don't identify with them. They don't see any appeal in Asians existing. Racism is actually pretty rife in Asia. You'd be surprised how many Asians look at Caucasians, black people and Indians with disdain, thinking they are dirty and/or ugly... It's sad, they think and occasionally talk about these thoughts, but at least they never act on them. Many people living in Asia have gotten use to living with a diversity of cultures and races.
In the same way, people who don't understand, identify in any with or find any appeal in gay people and aren't educated on the virtues of tolerance and diversity may follow their natural tendency to be hostile to them.
Re: It isn't getting better
Re: It isn't getting better
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dboy
HAH, I didn't mean a personal ad. There's MSN Chat, there's chat within many online games (like world of warcraft), there are gay organizations for kids, there are psych forums for discussing personal issues, etc.
Oh! I see. You must mean something like this, eh Dboy?
S├гo Paulo, Brazil. A few days ago two boys who met online, one 13, the other 18, skipped school to go to the movies. It was a date. Watching the film they cuddled, shared their popcorn and a cup of coke. After the movie, they sat in the cinema caf├й. They hugged and eventually they kissed.
Then hell broke lose, changing their lives forever.
The lady at the popcorn machine was shocked. She called the manager. He called the mall security. They called the police. What happened then can only be described as one of the most bizarre convictions on sex assault ever. The older boy was ARRESTED for alleged RAPE.. He was sent to a cell with very real criminals. Not people who gave an innocent kiss, but robbers, murderers and the like. Jails here in Brazil are not like the prisons in the USA or Europe. They are overcrowded, dirty and dangerous.
Re: It isn't getting better
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thai Dyed
eventually they kissed
funny how people who kill for their governments are considered heroes while boys kissing (at least in some places) are in danger of get arrested. Could almost make one think there's something wrong in the world.
Dboy
Re: It isn't getting better
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dboy
Could almost make one think there's something wrong in the world.
Dboy
Dboy, I can't believe you wrote this. Most people in the world, including many if not most on this forum, think that an adult (someone over 18) engaging in any erotic behaviour whatsoever with someone 13 years old, even a touch, is a crime worse than murder. I hear this repeated regularly. The laws of most countries are explicit on this matter. As the social workers, feminists and our guardians of morality keep reminding us, "the law is the law" and "rape is rape" and "children never recover from this trauma". Another refrain is that no one under 18 is mature enough to cope with the rigors of erotic sensations. Even Beachlover once mentioned that those areas of the brain don't fully develop until one is over 18.
I know there was a big campaign in England and elsewhere urging people to call the police if they even saw someone looking intently at anyone underage.
I support the law and I know all right thinking members of this forum do as well. My compliments to the ever vigilant police for bringing the miscreant to book. And god bless the popcorn seller!
Re: It isn't getting better
At first, I had my doubts about this story. It took some searching, but I found out it is true, and happened just last week.
http://oglobo.globo.com/cidades/sp/mat/ ... 003629.asp
The fact of the matter is that we wanted these laws and now we are in no position to complain. But I must say, I had always thought of the Brazilians as being more freewheeling even with regard to what their kids are up to. But times change, and rarely for the better. It saddens me to think of all these suicides, murders and arrests. This whole thing has become a lightening rod for misery and suffering all around.
Considering how deeply this story was buried, I can only wonder what the true numbers of these incidents are. The world now seems to have indeed become a madhouse of vast proportions.
Re: It isn't getting better
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thai Dyed
My compliments to the ever vigilant police for bringing the miscreant to book. And god bless the popcorn seller!
I just KNEW that Thai Dyed would come crawling from under his stone to post this kind of reply.
I guess he lives in some kind of black and white world where everything is cut and dried.
I'd like to bet he files his underwear in alphabetical order.
After Thai Dyed's hysterical response I had to re-read the story to check that the boy hadn't been bent over the cinema seat and fucked ten times. Thankfully, I found that the "serious sexual assault" as Thai Dyed would no doubt describe it, amounted to a single kiss.
One other thing - many countries in the world do not consider an offence to have been committed if both partners are under 18 so - if the 18yo in this case had been 17yrs 364days, would Thai Dyed have stood up for the letter of the law then??? You can safely bet your bottom Dollar he would still have been foaming at the mouth like some rabid hyena, loudly expressing his so-called moral outrage.
I now await his literary assault - which customarily includes labeling anybody who disagrees with him, as a pervert!
Well honey? Give us your best stuff.
:occasion9: :occasion9: :occasion9: :occasion9:
Re: It isn't getting better
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottish-guy
I just KNEW that Thai Dyed would come crawling from under his stone to post this kind of reply.
I guess he lives in some kind of black and white world where everything is cut and dried.
Yes, Thai Dyed is a psychotic maniac. He's the kind of guy you tip toe around because you never know when he's going to flip out.
But I think he was being sarcastic, Scotty... read his last two posts again.
Re: It isn't getting better
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thai Dyed
Oh! I see. You must mean something like this, eh Dboy?
S├гo Paulo, Brazil. A few days ago two boys who met online, one 13, the other 18, skipped school to go to the movies. It was a date. Watching the film they cuddled, shared their popcorn and a cup of coke. After the movie, they sat in the cinema caf├й. They hugged and eventually they kissed.
Then hell broke lose, changing their lives forever.
The lady at the popcorn machine was shocked. She called the manager. He called the mall security. They called the police. What happened then can only be described as one of the most bizarre convictions on sex assault ever. The older boy was ARRESTED for alleged RAPE.. He was sent to a cell with very real criminals. Not people who gave an innocent kiss, but robbers, murderers and the like. Jails here in Brazil are not like the prisons in the USA or Europe. They are overcrowded, dirty and dangerous.
That's pretty fucked... shouldn't be any charges if they didn't do any more than hugging and kissing.
13 and 18 (if they have sex)... I'm pretty sure that's illegal. Regardless of whether it's legal, I think it's pretty poor form for the 18 year old to go after a 13 year old, but that's just personal taste.
Re: It isn't getting better
"The world now seems to have indeed become a madhouse of vast proportions."
Yes, The US now says that child soldiers are ok as long as they are fighting "terrorists".... Gotta make sure those child soldiers don't kiss each other though, that would be immoral!
Dboy
