Thai Airways, Tiger to launch joint low-cost carrier

Thai Airways, Tiger to launch joint low-cost carrier
August 2, 2010 - 4:23PM AEDT
Flag carrier Thai Airways and Singapore's Tiger Airways confirmed today they plan to form a new low-fare airline.

The "Thai Tiger Airways" joint venture will be 51 per cent owned by Thai Airways and a Thai entity and 49 per cent owned by Tiger, the two airlines said in an announcement to the Singapore exchange.

The new carrier will be based in Bangkok and is expected to start operations in the first quarter of 2011. It will offer domestic and international services within a five-hour flying radius, the airlines said.

Thai Airways is 51 per cent-owned by the Thai government. Tiger is 49 percent-owned by Singapore Airlines and part-owned by Singapore state investor Temasek .

Reuters

Sweet... more competition means even lower fares, more availability and more routes.

So now we'll have AirAsia and Tiger doing international LCC out of Bangkok.

On a 12hour flight ( or 2 x 7hrs) I don't want low-cost - I can imagine what it would be like in terms of comfort.

How much lower can it get anyway when (with a bit of planning) you can get full service LHR-BKK for under ┬г500?

I want Business Class for the cost of Economy.

First Class for business class price would be equally attractive.

:occasion9:

Of course I realise that money is no object to all the old queens on here (or so they would have us believe), so please spare us the customary boasting of your limitless wealth in response.

I thought Thai Airways already had a low cost carrier: i.e. NOK Air?
Perhaps (he thought) it had gone belly up while he wasn't looking? Nope, still on the WWW accepting bookings. Perhaps (he said to himself) Thai sold it while he was on the toilet? Anyone know? Perhaps Thai thought (he thought) two lousy money-losers better than one? Ahhhh, that must be it: TiT!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Smiles

I thought Thai Airways already had a low cost carrier: i.e. NOK Air?
Perhaps (he thought) it had gone belly up while he wasn't looking? Nope, still on the WWW accepting bookings. Perhaps (he said to himself) Thai sold it while he was on the toilet? Anyone know? Perhaps Thai thought (he thought) two lousy money-losers better than one? Ahhhh, that must be it: TiT!!!

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As far as I know NOK does internal flights only, and using old aircraft only fit for that purpose.

As far as I know, NOK Air only does domestic routes. From what I can piece together from different reports of this new venture, Thai Tiger is really aiming for regional routes ex-Bangkok, within a five-hour radius. This may include connections to all its Asean neighbours, China and India.

There is some sense to this. With European and American tourists watching their wallets, if Thailand's tourism industry is to recover, Thailand really needs to draw traffic from emerging Asian economies, so if Thai Tiger is aggressive enough in launching new routes to China, Vietnam, Indonesia, India, this will certainly help. Budget fares are what these emerging tourists need.

Lord knows, the gay scene in Bangkok and Pattaya need this boost too. As I have said before, for the scene to have any real future, it needs lots more Asian tourists.

NOK already has the planes, and B737's can easily travel 5 hours**. Wouldn't it be common sense to simply change NOK's mandate (i.e. from purely domestic to some international), and get some extra equity pumped in from Tiger Air.
I would think that would help the economics of the situation at start up.
Though if NOK's planes are half shot already, perhaps not :blackeye:
Just musing ...


"" (Change that to "close" to 5 hours. Just checked. Oh well, TiT ... 'close' is good enough :bounce: )

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Originally Posted by scottish-guy

On a 12hour flight ( or 2 x 7hrs) I don't want low-cost - I can imagine what it would be like in terms of comfort.

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Please re-read, it clearly states 5 hour radius, and you criteria does not meet that.

Don't get your knickers in a twist dear - I was talking about LCC generally

Take a chill-pill.

:occasion9:

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Originally Posted by scottish-guy

Don't get your knickers in a twist dear:

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My knickers are not in a twist, but I say what I mean and not leave it up to an interpretation as to what I said.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Smiles

I thought Thai Airways already had a low cost carrier: i.e. NOK Air?

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Must admit that was my first thought also.

I have wondered whether Nok Air are doing well or not.
I have done a couple of domestic flights recently, and both times used Thai Air Asia as (1) they were cheaper, and (2) their website was less unfriendly than Nok's.

I guess that if Nok Air was purely domestic, and Thai Tiger was flying to neighbouring countries, it might make some sense.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scottish-guy

On a 12hour flight ( or 2 x 7hrs) I don't want low-cost - I can imagine what it would be like in terms of comfort.

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Well, I meant for regional international flights... 1 to 4 hours. I do a lot of regional flights when I'm there.

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Originally Posted by Smiles

NOK already has the planes, and B737's can easily travel 5 hours**. Wouldn't it be common sense to simply change NOK's mandate (i.e. from purely domestic to some international), and get some extra equity pumped in from Tiger Air.
I would think that would help the economics of the situation at start up.

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Yeah but Tiger is a much better brand to launch with.

Tiger has already been flying internationally for years so its brand awareness is much higher than Nok, which is probably already only known to its domestic Thai market. People in the region already recognise the Tiger brand. People also associate Tiger with Singapore Airlines (its parent owner), which has a much stronger brand than THAI.

There are some doubts about whether THAI Tiger will get off the ground. Looks like this may have been been scuttled due to some political shite. But THAI intend to launch its own wholly-owned LCC called тАЬTHAI WingsтАЭ regardless.

This article explains...

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Political meddling leaves Thai Tiger takeoff plans up in the air

By WATCHARAPONG THONGRUNG
THE NATION
Published on March 3, 2011

Thai Airways International this week announced at its shareholders' agreement incorporation of ultra-low-cost airline Thai Tiger Airways (TTA), six months after the incorporation plan was unveiled. But no matter how desperately THAI president Piyasvasti Amranand wants to get his baby off the ground this month, that is unlikely to happen as long as the Bhum Jai Thai Party maintains its control over the Transport Ministry.

Throughout the two years of the Abhisit Vejjajiva government, the list of power struggles between Bhum Jai Thai and the Democrats, the leading coalition party, has become long and nasty. It runs from the NGV (natural gas for vehicles) bus-procurement project and the rice-stockpile releases, to the measures to ease palm-oil shortages. Thai Tiger Airways will only lengthen the list.

But unlike other conflicts, the one involving Thai Tiger Airways stems from the resentment of the Bhum Jai Thai Party towards THAI management. According to a source close to this matter, Piyasvasti initiated the business plan in the full belief that it was within the president's power. He did not seek approval from Transport Minister Sophon Saram, who enjoys great trust from Bhum Jai Thai's influential supporter Newin Chidchob.

"It has been the norm that in all major investment projects, state enterprises need to discuss their plans with the politicians in power, starting with an official discussion," the source said.

This situation is partly attributable to Piyasvasti's tough-headed character. The former energy civil servant and former energy minister has rarely attended the transport minister's functions, like chiefs of other state enterprises or state agencies under the ministry's supervision. Indeed, Piyasvasti was not the favourite choice to lead THAI. The Transport Ministry ceded the appointment power to the Finance Ministry only because of the airline's huge net loss in 2008 and severe liquidity shortfall. Piyasvasti thus took the airline's presidency in late 2009, and was highly expected to reverse the company's finances.

Attempts to kill the Thai Tiger plan have been apparent since THAI signed the memorandum of understanding to incorporate the low-cost airline with Singapore-based Tiger Airways last August 2. Then, Sophon ordered the airline's management to explain the details of the plan. He also set up a committee, chaired by Transport permanent secretary Supodh Saplom, to investigate possible impacts from the deal as well as screen any possible violation of the Public-Private Joint Venture Act. The National Economic and Social Development Board (NESDB) was pulled in to endorse the investment plan...

Read more: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2011/03 ... 49985.html

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THAI is still saying it will go ahead with both the Tiger JV and its own wholly-owned LCC called тАЬTHAI WingsтАЭ.

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THAI fears falling behind in race for low-cost market

By Suchat Sritama
The Nation
Published on May 31, 2011

Nearly 50 low-cost airlines, including Thai Wings and Thai Tiger Airways, are preparing to enter Thailand's aviation sector to cash in on this growing market segment in the region.

Piyasvasti Amranand, president of Thai Airways International, said some lowcost airlines had already received permission from the Department of Civil Aviation to operate in Thailand. The rest are in the process or in the planning stages.

He said lowcost airlines from India were likely to become big players in the Thai market soon.

India is one of the fastestgrowing markets for Thai tourism. The market for business travel as well as niche markets such as weddings are expected to continue to grow over the next decade.

Other lowcost carriers based in East and Southeast Asia are also eyeing the Thai market, Piyasvasti said. One of these is a new lowcost subsidiary of Singapore Airlines, which will focus on longhaul routes and supplement the existing lowcost unit Silk Air.

The new Singapore Airlines unit is to compete directly with AirAsia X, which operates from Kuala Lumpur to Japan, China, the Middle East, Australia and Britain.

Moreover, Japanese operator All Nippon Airways has created a new budget carrier called Peach, which was launched in the Japanese market last week. Peach was conceived last year at the same time as THAI made plans to enter a joint venture with Tiger Airways to operate Thai Tiger Airways.

Piyasvasti said many countries had created new budget airlines easily, but the Thai government had seemed reluctant to support THAI pursuing new business.

"The Thai Tiger Airways project is stuck at the Transport Ministry. Meanwhile the new Thai Wings unit is still waiting for new aircraft. THAI has lost passengers to budget airlines. Our market share is also being stolen by premium airlines, especially from the Middle East region," Piyasvasti said.

The low-cost airline market in Thailand grew from 2 per cent seven years ago to 17 per cent this year, with approximate market capital of Bt5 billion. THAI's market share in the low-cost segment dropped from 47 per cent in 2005 to 36 per cent this year. Mostly of that business went to AirAsia Group. THAI used to post Bt15 billion in revenue from the domestic market but now it has been reduced to just Bt10 billion.

THAI still plans to operate two low-cost airlines. Thai Tiger Airways, its joint venture with Singapore based Tiger Airways, will serve the market between THAI and Thai Wings and will target domestic and regional passengers. However, it has yet to get off the ground.

THAI also plans to launch Thai Wings in the second quarter of next year. It will operate two narrow-body planes in its first year and is set to focus on the super low-cost segment. It will link Bangkok with Rangoon, Ho Chi Minh City and Vientiane, as well as Ubon Ratchathani province.

"As a big airline, THAI needs to create subbrands to serve different markets. THAI is going to tap the premium market, Thai Wings will be in the super low-cost market and Thai Tiger Airways will be in the middle," he said.

According a source in the low-cost airline industry, THAI is one of most recognised airlines in the world, especially in premium markets. It earns revenue of more than Bt200 billion per year and enjoys billions in profit annually.

Being one of the top players, THAI should consider competing with similar operators such as Singapore Airlines, Cathay Pacific, British Airways, Etihad, Emirates and Air France, the source said.

Given the relatively small size of the budget market, it would be smarter if the airline maintained its strength in the premium market, the source said.

Read: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2011/05 ... 56593.html
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After having read all of this it would appear the big cheese at Thai is determined to appear to hold all the cards by not approving any low cost airline be it Thai Wings or Thai Tiger. Me thinks it's time for this man to be replaced and given that it is election time, maybe that is what the other ministers need to hope for, then Mr Piyasvasti Amranand can take a powder.

Any company head who talks over other carriers "stealing" their clients due to lower cost is not someone to have a lot of confidence in, IMPO.

What shits me even more is Air Asia flies to Australia but there is not one carrier in the low cost market that will take a gamble on New Zealand (Auckland having the largest population). Just about every Thai flight I take (there are only 5 a week) is full to capacity. Surely a LCC could make a living even if it was only 1 or 2 flights a week.

Cheers
Krobbie

I hope Thai Tiger has a better service than Australian Tiger as it is nigh on short of fucking woeful here, I read this in the paper the other day.

Tiger on time departures for April 2011 60.7% (Qantas 83.3%, Virgin 80%)

Cancellations for April 2011 at 5.5%, which equates to almost 4 cancelled flights a DAY, and when you only have 66 flights a day that's pretty fucked.

But I will say that any competition is a good thing if you use another airline, however Tiger has already started to pull some routes here, and unless they fix their brand reputation in Australia I just can't see them as a long-term player. This is reflected with the big players not being overly serious about meeting Tigers low prices. The news of cancellations and people being stuck comes thick and fast.

I generally fly Air Asia, its a bit squishy but if you get the extra legroom and book early it's good value for money.

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Originally Posted by SimonAU

I hope Thai Tiger has a better service than Australian Tiger as it is nigh on short of fucking woeful here.

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I've used them for short hops in Asia and they're fine. A friend of mine uses them between Perth and Singapore (and on to Bangkok) and swears by them. I understand the Australian domestic problems are caused by a shortage of aircraft and an over-ambitious schedule so they are now abandoning Sydney-Brisbane and concentrating on Sydney-Melbourne. You get what you pay for.

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Originally Posted by krobbie

What shits me even more is Air Asia flies to Australia but there is not one carrier in the low cost market that will take a gamble on New Zealand (Auckland having the largest population).

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Well, I know Jetstar flies direct Auckland to Singapore pretty cheap. I believe Jetstar does connecting flights and they have a hub in Singapore with direct flights to Bangkok (Tiger and AirAsia also fly to Singapore to Bangkok). It might be worthwhile if it ends up significantly cheaper than flying THAI direct.

So far, from Sydney there's only a direct LCC flight from Sydney to Phuket and Bali. But no Sydney-Bangkok, Sydney-KL or Sydney-Singapore LCC flights yet!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SimonAU

I hope Thai Tiger has a better service than Australian Tiger as it is nigh on short of fucking woeful here, I read this in the paper the other day.

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Yeah, I've never flown Tiger in Australia because their reliability is so poor. I usually fly Virgin, Qantas or Jetstar if flying domestic in Australia. But in Asia, Tiger have been great... flown them lots of times.

Tiger is really positioned at the absolute bottom of the market as far as fare prices go. I think they will gradually fix their branding problems in Australia.

I also have a mate who's flown Tiger between Perth and Singapore and said it's fine and ridiculously cheap.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SimonAU

I generally fly Air Asia, its a bit squishy...

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I've never flown AirAsia long-haul before. I've found Jetstar long-haul slightly squishier than full-service airlines. I've noticed AirAsia business class seats are REALLY cheap compared to other airlines and unlike Jetstar they're actually full lie-flat seats! Might be worth it for those overnight return flights...

Beach,
The only problem I have is when you have to stop-ever rather fly direct it comes right in the middle of a sleep pattern and therefore instead of arriving refreshed you arrive looking like a bag of kicked arseholes. But I appreciate the help and will check out the layover times flying with each carrier or a combination thereof.
With thanks
Krobbie

Quote:

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Originally Posted by krobbie

The only problem I have is when you have to stop-ever rather fly direct it comes right in the middle of a sleep pattern

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You expect to be able to sleep on a LCC flight?

A Tiger Airways flight is under investigation for flying too low on its approach to Melbourne Airport last night.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011 ... 238959.htm

You want low low prices, how about low low planes !!!

(this was posted in good humour, whilst partly drunk, so save ya bitchin hoes !!!!) XXXX love you long time

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SimonAU

A Tiger Airways flight is under investigation for flying too low on its approach to Melbourne Airport last night.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011 ... 238959.htm

You want low low prices, how about low low planes !!!

(this was posted in good humour, whilst partly drunk, so save ya bitchin hoes !!!!) XXXX love you long time

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I guess, when you can touch the wheels it's pretty low. I aint bitchin'.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SimonAU

A Tiger Airways flight is under investigation for flying too low on its approach to Melbourne Airport last night.

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Ah, not good... Ever since the new boss took over, Tiger's been working hard to improve its customer service image. Now it's being hit harder by its safety image and that isn't so easy to fix!

Australia has one of the safest commercial airliner safety records in the world though... I don't think there's EVER been a large commercial jet airliner crash in recent history here, which is pretty amazing considering how many crashes they have in the UK, Europe, America and Canada.

Krobbie, Air Asia X flies to Christchurch from KL.

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Originally Posted by Beachlover

,,, which is pretty amazing considering how many crashes they have in the UK, Europe, America and Canada.

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Right, and the volume of air traffic in those countries in comparable to Australia too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thonglor55

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beachlover

,,, which is pretty amazing considering how many crashes they have in the UK, Europe, America and Canada.

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Right, and the volume of air traffic in those countries in comparable to Australia too.

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In the amount of traffic in and out of airports, top 32:
United States - 20
Germany 2
India - 2
Canada - 1
Peoples Republic of China - 1
France - 1
Mexico - 1
Japan - 1
Spain - 1
Netherlands - 1
United Kingdom - 1

There is not one single airport in Australia in the list.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s_ ... _movements

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beachlover

considering how many crashes they have in the UK, Europe, America and Canada.

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Yes clearly Australia is by far the safest place to fly

2010
USA - 5 fatalities (2 crashes)
Canada - 2 fatalities (1 crash)
Europe(excluding UK) - 0 fatalities
United Kingdom - 0 fatalities
Australia - 2 fatalities (1 crash)

http://aviation-safety.net/2010/ASN_...stats_2010.pdf

Ha ha... Look at the pair of losers leaping onto Google to try and prove me wrong. Bunch of tossers! :rolling:

The fact remains, no large commercial airline jet has had a serious crash in Australia within recent history (last 30 years, possibly longer). This cannot be disputed.

DCbob failed to mention Sydney Airport was ranked 27th in the world by passenger traffic with 36 million in 2010. Heathrow had 66 million. We're not the biggest but not insignificant either (click on the "passenger traffic" link on the page he linked to).

And how typical of you to resort to name calling when caught out in another of your ill informed posts.

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Originally Posted by Once In Awhile

And how typical of you to resort to name calling when caught out in another of your ill informed posts.

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How very true. Bitchlover, you really need to control this anger you have, it is not healthy!

I don't know how the boards put up with this nasty, name calling you give out!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beachlover

Ha ha... Look at the pair of losers leaping onto Google to try and prove me wrong. Bunch of tossers! :rolling:

The fact remains, no large commercial airline jet has had a serious crash in Australia within recent history (last 30 years, possibly longer). This cannot be disputed.

DCbob failed to mention Sydney Airport was ranked 27th in the world by passenger traffic with 36 million in 2010. Heathrow had 66 million. We're not the biggest but not insignificant either (click on the "passenger traffic" link on the page he linked to).

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Number of passengers does not equate to number of airplanes.
Apples and oranges.
Granted Australia has a good record for safety.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rincondog

Krobbie, Air Asia X flies to Christchurch from KL.

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Sorry for not getting back sooner. Remiss of me.

Yes I understand that Air Asia flies from Christchurch, which is halfway down the South Island. I am up the top of the North Island in Auckland. I know you can't have everything just as you wish but I need a LCC carrier from Auckland as I have a disability and it is just more of a drama than needs be if I have to change planes etc too often. I went through this for a while with Royal Brunei but their lay-over times became ridiculous in the end, needing 6 hours at Brunei Airport on the way home, which I would much rather spend with my partner. I guess I am stuck with Thai.

The new talking head at Thai has also clamped down on luggage more than 20kg in economy and I was until now allowed extra allowance (10kg) for a second artificial limb.
As of a few months ago this has been nixed. No amount of pleading will shift them but for the last 4 years this has never been an issue. They will allow me to bring my 17kg wheelchair though??? Go figure.

Cheers
kroobie

Quote:

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Originally Posted by the1

How very true. Bitchlover, you really need to control this anger you have, it is not healthy! I don't know how the boards put up with this nasty, name calling you give out!

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I think we all recognise that Beachlover suffers from Narcissistic Personality Disorder, a symptom of which is cyber-bullying, and feel sorry for him.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thonglor55

Beachlover ... and feel sorry for him.

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Especially now that said malady has resulted in him being suspended from yet another board.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thonglor55

Quote:

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Originally Posted by krobbie

The only problem I have is when you have to stop-ever rather fly direct it comes right in the middle of a sleep pattern

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You expect to be able to sleep on a LCC flight?

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If you can't sleep on a LCC flight on the way home from Thailand, then you did not play hard enough :headbang:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DCbob

Granted Australia has a good record for safety.

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Thank you... that's pretty much all I was saying.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DCbob

Number of passengers does not equate to number of airplanes.

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Correct. But it's still a significant measure of air traffic, especially if we're talking about large commercial airline jets.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beachlover

Correct. But it's still a significant measure of air traffic, especially if we're talking about large commercial airline jets.

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Someone with a clear grasp of statistics!

THAI Airways JV plans with Tiger Airways are officially dead and gone...

THAI will setup a LCC airline called THAI Smile instead.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/avi ... with-tiger