The future: What do pink dollars want??

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Originally Posted by sglad

However, when the Covid dust has settled, Pattaya venue owners will have to take a long, hard look at future market trends and see where potential customers are likely to come from and what they're looking for. Pattaya bars were already dying long before Covid. They are at least five years behind Bangkok venues in terms of re-inventing and adapting themselves to what current pink dollar spenders want.

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Sglad, thanks for this post. Well, I'm not so sure the "Covid dust" will ever quite settle, i.e. that things will ever quite be the same again. Times have changed. Risks have changed. Technology has changed. I doubt whether our pink world will ever quite be the same ever again. But this is both a worry and an opportunity.

What do pink dollars really want? For at least the past decade we have all witnessed the decrease in young gay tourists/residents in Pattaya. Even the welcome boost in young Asian foreign visitors has not compensated for the decline in other races. Even us old stick-in-the-muds have largely abandoned the current venues. They are often, frankly, boring, loud and not particular clean. (We live in a Covid world remember.)

We can be nostalgic when recalling the raunchy fleshpots of the past, or we can try to influence the next iteration of gay life to be something which more fits the times. I for one would like to support gay venues which are more transparent, in which the workers keep more of the money which is generated, and the corrupt police and the underworld keep less.

The arrival of the apps was an interesting moment, but with them came some new dangers and frustrations. At least the current apps are not yet a satisfactory answer IMO. I think we can dream of better if we were to put together our collective imaginations. Anybody got any great ideas to share?

personally I find the apps a Godsend...I always clarify what I want and expect and ask for photos...face as well as front and rear naked....if the delivery does not match the "menu" then I either renegotiate or decline...but tbh...most cases the delivery matches the menu and I dont have an issue...love the apps.
Very rarely have I offed MBs from a gogo bar...I do enjoy the shows and love watching them parading on the stage...also really enjoy the hands on establishments in sunnee....love the sleaze...will miss that if it dissapears...but when it comes to finding sex apps rule.

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Originally Posted by Marc K

For at least the past decade we have all witnessed the decrease in young gay tourists/residents in Pattaya.

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I have been travelling to Pattaya - and, less frequently, to Bangkok - several times every year since 1993. With (1) its heavy preponderance of money boys over genuinely gay and non-money boys, (2) its lack of the sort of gay clubs found in any western city, and (3) the absence of much in the way of any other reason (a clean beach, for instance!) to go there, Pattaya has never, in my view, been a place to attract younger gay tourists. It's become well established as a niche destination that offers older, unattached gay men with plenty of pink pounds (a much more neatly alliterative term than gay dollars) a form of rest and recreation exactly matched to their requirements.

While it's sometimes said that the Pattaya gay scene's customer base will soon die out, that ignores the fact that even as guys in the, say, 60+ age group are dying at the top end, the pool is being constantly replenished by lonely but affluent 59-year-olds entering their seventh decade at the other.

Maybe Pattaya's gay scene will go on shrinking, but I don't think that the absence of young tourists need, in itself, be taken as evidence of terminal decline.

"plenty of pink pounds"

Yes indeed. The ones with Elizabeth Regina and the ones around the middle.

The day off the older gay farang has passed as far as the boy bars are concerned. In Pattaya, albeit several months ago,
the customer base was Asian, male and female in the show bars. Older gay farangs remain dominant in bar beers but I
witnessed many farangs females accompanied by older farang men in the boy beer bars. They’re attracted by cheap hotels,
Jomtien Beach and relatively cheap drink prices. Some families with children as well.
Boyzboyzboyz an example of the power of Asian money, as often they crowd the bar with nary an older farang in sight.
If they don’t return, Boyztown is doomed, just as Sunee Plaza, which was recently abandoned by Belgian owner of Elephant Hotel
and Elephant Bar as well as Double Shot Bar beer. Only Jomtien Complex appears to have a good shot. Many boys there
complain that the older gay men there come to sit together and talk together and don’t ‘off’ boys. The older gay men either have
boyfriends already or use the Apps to save baht. The new crop of 59+ y.o. farangs is far too skimpy to make a difference.

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Originally Posted by catawampuscat

Only Jomtien Complex appears to have a good shot. Many boys there
complain that the older gay men there come to sit together and talk together and don’t ‘off’ boys. The older gay men either have
boyfriends already or use the Apps to save baht. The new crop of 59+ y.o. farangs is far too skimpy to make a difference.

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True catawampus, and many farang complain that the boys only want to play with their phones and not engage the customer.

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Originally Posted by francois

True catawampus, and many farang complain that the boys only want to play with their phones and not engage the customer.

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That's what I've also heard.

And apparently they do their best to lure you into the bar and then leave you to sit by yourself while they go and chat with their friends.

What are the bar owners doing about this? It can't be good for business.

The guys who are attracted to work at the Jomtien bars now are very different to the ones we met in Boyztown in the 90s. I don't wish to get into yet another argument over straight/gay hosts but the lack of genuinely gay Cambodian guys- yes I'm sure there are some- is bound to change the ambience of the Complex. In the past, gay guys would travel from rural Thailand to make money but also to have fun, not only because money was short in the large families of the period but because they wanted to be with other gay Thais.
These were the ones who attracted me in my first few visits and, though some in the same situation are still there, gay life even in rural areas is not quite as bleak as it was thirty or twenty years ago.
Now that I stay in the Complex, I sometime have a drink in host bars and P and I often walk (and sometimes eat) in the area. I like it....it's far more interesting than Boyztown....but it is not "gay" in the way that Boyztown once was. Apart from us remnants of better days.

a447 wrote.
"And apparently they do their best to lure you into the bar and then leave you to sit by yourself while they go and chat with their friends.

What are the bar owners doing about this? It can't be good for business."

I think the majority of boys working in Jomtien are still looking for offs and offering a good service. The problem down there is it's rather user unfriendly compared to Sunee. Farangs gather boys like a squirrel gathering nuts and ply them with cheap nasty whiskey so offing them can be tricky. Once they're sat round a table with one (sad and lonely alcoholic farang) and their friends then it's pretty much all over for that night.
Also it can be hard to know what's going on in a beer bar with so much coming and going so snaring your prey isn't easy. The boys cone and go all night so the chances of you finding the one you liked the night before is devilishly tricky.
But, patience and the hunting skills of a jaguar will sooner or later reap rewards.

Legendary arsenals hot tip of the day. It's much much easier to spot boys and see their body language and yes, wait for the moment to pounce if you sit in the bar opposite. Sone of those boys down there are free for about 3/4 minutes between customers before they're invited to drink again.

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Once they're sat round a table with one (sad and lonely alcoholic farang) and their friends then it's pretty much all over for that night.

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Yes, I experienced that many times over the years. Eros was always fun until a farang opened a bottle of whisky. That signalled the end of my night and I went elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by a447

That signalled the end of my night and I went elsewhere.

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And also the end of the boys drink tips....

Arsenal is correct about watching the guys from across the soi. When I have a beer on my own while P is having one of his two hour showers before dinner, I always choose an empty-ish bar near a full-ish one. I like to see the guys interact; and you see more of their personalities than when you are sitting in their bars.

Of course, nothing compares to Panorama circa 1997 when a seat at the front provided rich entertainment as the go go guys sauntered past on their way to work and hosts teased and petted each other....but the Complex certainly has its charms.

As for a447's remark, I recall being in Toyboys at about 2300 on a quiet night when there were only seven or so dancers. A falang entered and bought drinks for five them. They sat next to him , chatted with each other and played with mobiles. The four or so falangs were left with a choice of two dancers. My ungenerous interpretation of this sort of behaviour is that the falang is showing-off rather than being kind to the dancers. After all, they are possibly losing an off.

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Originally Posted by Oliver2

As for a447's remark, I recall being in Toyboys at about 2300 on a quiet night when there were only seven or so dancers. A falang entered and bought drinks for five them. They sat next to him , chatted with each other and played with mobiles. The four or so falangs were left with a choice of two dancers. My ungenerous interpretation of this sort of behaviour is that the falang is showing-off rather than being kind to the dancers. After all, they are possibly losing an off.

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Regrettably this scenario happens quite often.

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Originally Posted by francois

Regrettably this scenario happens quite often.

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I once visited Corner Bar in Sunee. There were about 5 boys sat with 2 German customers drinking & the remaining 2 boys or so were definitely not my type. I think the boy got 100 baht each from this.
I would have been more interested in activities worthy of a tip in excess of 1000, but by the time they'd finished, I'd already decided to move on as well. Besides, I get better results with boys who have consumed less alcohol.

Go to Winner early in the evening and half the boys would be typically sat with 2~3 farang at the far end of the bar. Less than a quarter of them will be on stage. Later on, when the owner's left, so no one is cracking the whip, there might be as many as 15 boys on the premises and none of them on stage or with customers.

It's not just where one farang buys the drinks that things go wrong.

There's one bar in Jomtien where I have seen groups of Asians drinking amongst themselves, groups of farang drinking amongst themselves and at times, not a single case of the two groups mixing. The bar directly across the soi shows how it should be done. The boys circulate & keep an eye out for customers eyeing them up & say hello if there's obvious interest. That's how host bars should work.

I once went into Nature Boys Bangkok. The two boys got up, but were back to playing with their phones before my drink arrived. As they were not keeping their side of the unwritten bargain, I made a quick exit before the drink arrived.

Of course, in the majority of bars, sufficient organisation exists for things to function properly. And if not, there is always a phone app.

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Originally Posted by a447

And apparently they do their best to lure you into the bar and then leave you to sit by yourself while they go and chat with their friends.

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That's terrible. Have you tried using deodorant?

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Originally Posted by sglad

That's terrible. Have you tried using deodorant?

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What you have written is terrible. We have a constructive thread and you try to derail it with more crude insults. Also way off topic.

Just a couple more sackings are needed for this forum to complete the journey from being a zoo to a place that's civilized, yet still has some banter.

Note to moderators: You have my blessing to delete this post, as long as the preceding one goes as well.

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Originally Posted by goji

I once went into Nature Boys Bangkok. The two boys got up, but were back to playing with their phones before my drink arrived. As they were not keeping their side of the unwritten bargain, I made a quick exit before the drink arrived.

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Some farangs are a difficult bunch to please and some in particular are very precious. While a few here have complained about bar staff ignoring them, there are probably just as many or more who will complain about boys who approach them without being invited. It's considered rude to start approaching a customer even before his drink is served and normally the staff would make small talk as they serve the drink to you. If a customer is interested in a particular boy, he can always invite him over and buy him a drink. Bear in mind that the more seasoned boys can be very good at reading body language and can tell a stand-offish customer when they see one and thus would leave him alone. It's also not considered inappropriate in commercial bar culture to ask a mamasan or captain whether a boy seated in a group (whether with a customer or not) is available to sit with you. The captain/mamasan woud make the necessary and discreet enquiries on your behalf.

I've seen farangs who get upset when a boy that they're interested in "offing" has not fallen heads over heels in love with them during that first drink and others who rudely wave boys who are not their "type" away for simply saying hi or making bonhomie. It takes two to tango and it usually takes time to build up that chemistry what more when there's a huge linguistic, cultural and age barrier between the parties. The complexities of human interaction and contact can't be reduced to a number, statistic or formula.

Goji wrote:

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It's not just where one farang buys the drinks that things go wrong.

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One of the main problems is that whilst the customers see the bar as a place for the guys to work, some of the guys see it as a place to party.

This was evident at Neal's old Bar, Happy Place. When he was there keeping an eye on things, all was ok. But as soon as he left or if he took a night off, the customers were ignored - we couldn't even order a drink - while the guys raided the bar and then sat outside drinking all the profits.

Not exactly what the pink dollars want!

a447 wrote.
"the customers were ignored"

Not just Pattaya bars. 20 yeats ago i went into La Mamounia in Marrakesh for a coffee. 20 minutes passed and no one came to ask me what I wanted to order. So i left.

Posters who remember the gay guides like "Men of Thailand" know that the the writers usually identified those bars in which the guys approached customers and those where they didn't.
In Pattaya in those days, go-go dancers in the smaller, more twinkish places did, while those in the larger bars like BBB , A Bomb and Toy Boys didn't. At least, that's my recollection.

The guys at Eros, Goodboys and All of Me (which was opposite Goodboys) certainly didn't wait for an invitation. They pounced as you approached the bar and dragged you inside.

What I want is to be able to make another trip to Pattaya in the near future. I managed one In February just before the vIrus struck and had made plans be there now in June.
These visits have been an integral part of my life over the last 20 years. I enjoy the exotic atmosphere, the hot climate and the comfortable great value accommodations. But most of all I love the boys who provide me with great gay sex for a modest cost. I have made a few gay friends amongst the expats and regular visitors who I enjoy messaging during the current situation.
Pattaya has changed over the last 20 years as I have. Then I found boys in the Sunee and BT gogos whereas more recently they come from the apps and the Complex.

I'd not be surprised that Sunnee Plaza will be no more, even after your mask strings have detoriated. Sunnee has been 'The-Dark-Vader-of-Offs' for quite some time without the Virus being an issue.
Jomtien Plaza is your best bet ... possibly the only one.
Boyztown? Lets just say, it ain't 2001.
If you don't believe that, think about the end of Soi Twilight in Bangkok. That joint was pretty well demolished before the Virus screwed the world.

MOO ...

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Originally Posted by Smiles

If you don't believe that, think about the end of Soi Twilight in Bangkok. That joint was pretty well demolished before the Virus screwed the world.

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well it is certainly demolished now:
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