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Advice for long-term needed...
Hey everyone,
Was wondering if some of you Thailand verterans would be willing to provide some advice. I've spent a total of say 10 months in Thailand, so I'm not new, but nonetheless. Back in Pattaya right now, and I've tried the long-term relationship thing a few times before, but it's just never worked out. Neither of us did anything wrong, and they treated me the same as I treated them, which is extremely well. They always took good care of me, but they always seen it as a job.
I met this new 19yo guy recently though, and out of all the boys I've met in Thailand, he's the only one I've ever actually liked. And I mean, LIKED. I don't know, just simply being around him makes me happy. :-) He's brand new to Pattaya though (which is probably why I like him so much -- hasn't been hardened by the bars yet), and I've been told I'm the only customer he's ever had. Whether or not that's true, I have no idea. I do know he's new to Pattaya though, because he can't speak a lick of English. The only words he knows right now are "yes", "no", and "good". That can be solved though, so no worries there.
And I know he likes me too, at least somewhat. He's genuinely gay, and genuinely attracted to me (for example, he won't even leave me alone when I'm trying to sleep, as he keeps molesting me). You know, hanging out at the karokee bar with some of his friends, and it's somewhat like we're actually together. I'm sure a good amount of that is just a show for my money, but don't think all of it is. I'm 27, look much younger, no Brad Pitt but fairly decent looking, nice guy, well composed, good hygiene, etc.
Anyway, sorry for rambling. So, I want him for long-term, but I'm a little unsure how this all works here. Do I just offer him to live with me, and offer to pay him say 500 baht per day (15,000/month)? I've been told the average go-go boy without customers makes 3000/month, so I think that's reasonable, no? Or is that too cheap? I don't need or want sex every night, have a really nice 1bdrm condo, he'll have his own key so he can come and go as he wants, if he wants I can get him an English tutor, and myself a Thai tutor, etc.
Right now I've been paying him 3000/baht per night, which obviously, I'm not going to keep doing. I don't mind taking care of him financially though. I'm no millionaire, but I make enough. Regardless, whatever he costs me for himself, his "family problems", English tutor, and whatever else, guaranteed it'll be far cheaper than my ex-husband, so I'm not complaining. :-)
I don't know, I just really enjoy being around him, and want him as part of my life for the next good while. I've heard lots of people having long-term relationships with boys here that last years, but have no idea how to evolve a one-night stand with a go-go boy into something more long-term. And I want something more than just him looking at me as a customer who he needs to take care of. Do I actually have to pay him X amount every month, forever? Or is there any chance of something more? You know, just say whenever you need some cash, let me know, kinda thing, and have more of an actual relationship with him?
Or I don't know, am I just still completely naive and clueless? :P Wow, what a long post! Sorry about that. Any advice though would be greatly appreciated, as I'm a bit in the dark about this.
Cheers guys!
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Re: Advice for long-term needed...
3000 a night wow a lot.I would have thought 3000 a week would be closer to the mark as long as you feed him and buy stuff etc.
But good luck ..
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Re: Advice for long-term needed...
cdnmatt,
I think you're doing everything perfectly. You are a lucky dog indeed to have found someone so wonderful in Pattaya. Stay the course and don't be influenced by all the flak you are bound to get here one way or the other. :thumbright:
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Re: Advice for long-term needed...
3000, 4000, 5000 TB/week is a reasonable amount to pay him to get out of the bar business, depending on what provisions you are making for him regarding lodging. Of course there will be more expenditures such as a motorbike, cell phone and education. Be sure it is clear between he and you that he is not doing other farang, unless that is ok with you.
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Re: Advice for long-term needed...
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Originally Posted by francois
Be sure it is clear between he and you that he is not doing other farang, unless that is ok with you.
Yeah, already thought about that. Will make sure to make it clear that if I ever see him working in a go-go bar, or with another farang, he'll never see me again. Simple as that. :) The rest is up to him.
Anyway, thanks for all the comments guys. They're appreciated!
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Re: Advice for long-term needed...
This is one of the board's better moments. I think everyone has given you great advice. I would only add that while he is learning English you might consider learning Thai so can you be a bigger part of his life in Thailand.
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Re: Advice for long-term needed...
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Or is there any chance of something more? You know, just say whenever you need some cash, let me know, kinda thing,
If you REALLY want to know how much he cares about you (as opposed to your bank balance), why don't you ask him
a)if you can have a relationship where money is not a factor i.e. you do not give him any money
or
b) ask him outright how much he wants and, most importantly, get him to justify the amount to you.
Quote:
He's brand new to Pattaya though (which is probably why I like him so much -- hasn't been hardened by the bars yet), and I've been told I'm the only customer he's ever had.
I met a 19 year old in Bangkok who told me he had only just started working in the bar ( all the bar boys seem to say 3 months, for some reason) but it was obvious that he was VERY, VERY experienced and had been around the traps a lot longer than that. Although he may be new in Pattaya, where was he before that??
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he won't even leave me alone when I'm trying to sleep, as he keeps molesting me
That in itself may be a good start. I wish you luck here. But I must admit that a number of guys have been insatiable in bed but they sure didn't love ME. It was something else they were after! 3000 baht a night is a lot and he now might see that as the benchmark and you may have trouble climbing down from that amount. If he puts up any argument when you tell him 3000 is unsustainable, you'll know where you stand with him.
Quote:
have no idea how to evolve a one-night stand with a go-go boy into something more long-term.
That's where the money discussion has to take place. I also have no idea. If you find out, let me know! Keep a cool head in all of this.
All the best.
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Re: Advice for long-term needed...
cdnMatt,
The biggest road block in farang/Thai boy long term relationships is, without question, the age gap. and at your young age I think you have a great opportunity as long as you evaluate, and draw some real conclusions, regarding your expectations of the relationship.
I imagine your bf would be happy with a monthly income of 20-30,000 baht if living with you on a full-time basis, although going from your current tipping amount of 3,000 baht to 500 baht may be pushing it. One thing you need to consider is the fact that he is still a working boy, and doing so strickly for the money. If by chance he left the working boy circuit to reside with you full-time for the purose of cultivating a meaningful relationship, then the money part would have to be re-evaluated taking an approach which is mutually agreeable based on your expectations going forward.
Another factor you will need to consider is the off fee for the bar he works for. You should be able to negotiate a reasonable monthly off fee considering the current economic conditions, of 5,000 - 6,000 baht or so. Of course if the boy quit his job at the bar there would be no off fee to deal with, although I would never suggest this until you have spent sufficient time together to see if this makes sense. And frankly, I would suggest a period of 2 years minimum.
I'm not sure if you stated you were a full-time resident of LOS or not, because of course this throws another set of dynamics into play. If you are a vistor and take on the responsibilties of a full-time/long term relationship, you will have to send monthly payments to your bf for the obvious financial support. I imagine most boys would be satisfied with 8,000 - 12,000 bt.month, although there are no gaurantees that the money you are sending will be enough as time goes on. Most of us here (at least the honest ones) have been through this before and experienced the numerous things that pop up where extra cash is needed, e.g., water buffalo dies in the mud, grandmas in the hospital, motorbikes broken, etc. and these extra costs can add up.
Most importanly, is the fact that your age is definately in your favor. Like in any relationship, the element of time is critical where you both have the opportunity to get to truly know each other. In relationships with Thai boys, this element of "time" is a mandatory prerequisite. Regardless if he speaks English or not makes absolutely no difference in the big equation, asThai boys have an inherent sense of understanding how to make money on the working scene and are the best actors on the planet regardles of their language skliis. What they can't master with words - they will master with that body language which we all know too well.
Go for it - but be careful. Take a concious inventory of your short and long term expections and make sure you can afford it, as in Thai culture in general, without the money, the component of Love (as in our cultural definition) has no meaning.
mai pen rai
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Re: Advice for long-term needed...
If you're giving the boy 3,000 baht a day - and, presumably, feeding him and buying him drinks as well, he's going to cling to you, literally and figuratively, for that reason alone. Such largese will make you glamorous in his eyes, on top of the purely economic factor. This doesn't mean he doesn't have any genuine feelings for you, but who can know - perhaps not even him. It's not a great place from which to start a long term relationship.
If you don't live in Thailand, I'd advise you to spoil him, enjoy his company, but make no promises of any kind. Not even to see him again. If you're in love, or think you are, you'll ignore this advice - and who knows, maybe it'll work out. If you do enter a real relationship, then it will not be a question of paying him, but supporting him (and to some extent, his family). If he expects a daily allowance which is more than pocket money, I'm afraid it's the folding stuff he loves, and not you.
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Re: Advice for long-term needed...
I'ts really up to you how much you pay your PROSTITUTE and wether you call him your BOYFRIEND like a lot of the other posters do. But remember one thing, If you had no money he would be with someone else.
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Re: Advice for long-term needed...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodger
I'm not sure if you stated you were a full-time resident of LOS or not, because of course this throws another set of dynamics into play.
Dodger has not only given excellent advice, but raised the most important point - are you living here, in which case the "long-term" relationship you are after is at least possible, or are you here on holiday, in which case you may as well forget it? After all, unless you can speak a reasonable amount of Thai (which is also not clear) you know nothing about him whatsoever. For 3,000 baht a night, particularly at the moment, it would be quite a surprise if he was not all over you, 24 hours a day. Not only is he getting very well paid in comparison with most of his friends at the karaoke bar but he can also show off that he has got a young (apparently presentable) farang rather than a geriatric wrinkly, whom he is (apparently) topping. No wonder he's happy.
I can see the point being made by those saying stop paying him and then see if he still likes you - the problem is that, if you do, you are effectively (at least to him, however you phrase it) telling him to come and visit/service you for free but to go back to the bar to support himself or, if he can, find another job (with similar pay). Hardly a great way to start a relationship!
A few more details, such as whether you are living here, how long you have known him, what you know about him, etc, and you may get some decent personal advice - if not, it will just be generalisations (for and against).
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Re: Advice for long-term needed...
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnmatt
Back in Pattaya right now, and I've tried the long-term relationship thing a few times before, but it's just never worked out. Neither of us did anything wrong, and they treated me the same as I treated them, which is extremely well. They always took good care of me, but they always seen it as a job.
....am I just still completely naive and clueless?
Short answer: Yes.
If, as the context of your post implies, your previous LTR attempts involved monetary compensation on a daily or weekly basis, then "they always seen [sic] it as a job" because it was a job! Duh! :8(
If your ultimate goal is a relationship based on the love of you rather than the love of your money, then you are definitely approaching it in the wrong way. :old: Unless you have unusual and/or repugnant deformities that you haven't revealed, a 27 y.o. should not need to base a relationship on the promise of monetary compensation; and doing so will rob you - at the time of your life when it is most possible - of the superlative experience of having a relationship based on affection for you as a person, rather than your wallet (or the opportunity for emigration, which is the other big "asset" you have in some Thai's eyes).
Geez... a 27 y.o. trying to find a LTR from boys he's paying per night, and paying 3,000 baht (per night!) to boot. If I were a cynic I'd say you're just a troll. (Oh, that's right, I am a cynic...) :bounce:
In the off chance you're for real, though, here's some advice: Date someone you don't have to pay, and who wouldn't even accept money if you offered. They exist, right there in Thailand (well, maybe not in Pattaya...). Of course, if you're just a control freak who needs (psychologically) to use your money to control a relationship, you're probably doing just fine as is...
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Re: Advice for long-term needed...
3000bt a night!!!!
Do you think he is clinging to you because you are only 27? I think he would be clinging to me for that amount a day. I'm sorry and hope I am wrong but he is a money boy and that is what attracts him.
good luck
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Re: Advice for long-term needed...
This is a fairly bizarre topic!
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt as you remind me of a young German guy I know of, who suddenly felt insecure when his Thai boyfriend got a scholarship to study in Australia and he realised the Thai guy wasn't a possession who could be bought with hard cash, a luxurious lifestyle or the novelty of a fresh-faced young Caucasian. So there are other people in similar situations.
I don't mean to be unkind but it seems ultimately you have an immature and destructive approach to relationships, and though I don't know you, I would suggest a very different kind of professional help.
If you want a good relationship in Thailand it's the same as anywhere else in the world. You need to enjoy each other's company and be able to communicate with each other. Of course the success rate is going to be higher if there is some mutual physical attraction and you share some interests - that's why large age gaps or cultural differences can be an obstacle.
In the end you need to develop and nurture a relationship over time, whether it's with a GoGo boy or with a doctor or lawyer (probably earning less than 3000 Baht a day though!). There is no 3000 Baht golden ticket in Thailand or anywhere else that will make somebody love you overnight - at best he is infatuated with you, at worst he is a good, overpaid actor!
Whether you're a Brad Pitt lookalike or you are totally hideous it doesn't make a difference either - you need to get to know each other over a long period of time, be conscientious, build up trust, respect his space and let him have a life outside of your bubble too. Don't mistake an overnight infatuation for a loving relationship, whatever his motives for being infatuated with you.
In the long-term, the odds are stacked against you to have an honest long-term relationship with a GoGo boy, but if you can see through this infatuation your life will be easier. It's a great idea to learn some Thai, even a little will go a long way! English lessons for your guy is a nice idea, but why not teach him yourself? You are articulate and fluent in English, so you are more than capable of teaching him. Besides education is the same as a relationship, you can't just throw money at it to get results. This would be a great chance to spend good time together and develop your relationship as well as his English skills so you can communicate better. There are so many English-teaching resources you can find online if you get stuck.
Finally I strongly suggest you make some regular friends if you are going to be in Thailand for a long time. You seem like a nice guy, don't be shy - meet some Thai people who speak English outside of the P4P sex industry, there are a lot of honest friendly Thais around, even in Pattaya! Meet some expats too, we are not all boozy and delusional despite our reputation!
Sorry for the waffly response, advice is cheap. Best of luck matey :pirate:
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Re: Advice for long-term needed...
I agree that one of your biggest obstacles is the communication gap. What you have until you are actually able to converse with each other and learn about each other is not a relationship. It is a business arrangement.
And cultivating actual friends not paid companionship is a good idea.
Good luck.
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Re: Advice for long-term needed...
Thanks for the comments everyone! Except for you SF farang. Are you that much of a dick in real life too? I mean, really, what's the point?
To answer some questions. He doesn't work at the bar anymore, and although I doubt I've been given an honest answer as to why, it does mean he's only been a go-go boy for 2 - 3 weeks. Again, I think this is one of the reasons I like him. It's apparent he hasn't been hardened by the scene yet. Either that, or he's VERY good at his job. He lives a block away, I have his friend's cell, and that's how we get ahold of each other. I'd be surprised to find out he went back to the scene anytime soon. I mean, why stand on a stage in your underwear all night, when I'm just a phone call away?
No, I don't live in Thailand, but will be here for the next 2 - 3 months, which I think is enough time to cultivate something meaningful. My business is online, so I do have to be in Canada a bit to take care of things, but can spend tons of time in Thailand if wanted. Immigration would be an issue, but there's ways around that.
I speak as much Thai as he speaks English, which is about three words. Again, that can be solved if wanted. Right now, we just use his friends as translators.
I was already married for three years. Met in Toronto, we were both 22, genuinely fell in love, got married, travelled the world, and the whole nine yards. I got hurt very badly through it though, so I'm not really looking for a genuine, natural relationship. I'm looking for more of a contractual relationship this time around, where we're BOTH happy with things. There's tons of contractual relationships out there, both in Asia and in the West. About 8 months into my previous marriage, I ended up financially responsible for everything due to various reasons, so I'm fine with that.
justin put it perfectly:
Quote:
Originally Posted by justin
If you do enter a real relationship, then it will not be a question of paying him, but supporting him (and to some extent, his family). If he expects a daily allowance which is more than pocket money, I'm afraid it's the folding stuff he loves, and not you.
There we go, you phrased it better than I could! I was just looking for advice / insight on how to get someone out of the "customer -> rent boy" relationship, and make them realize that seeing it as more could be hugely beneficial to them. I mean, I could change this kid's life (and his family's life) forever, raise their standard of living for the better, etc. But trying to get these guys to view me as a human instead of a customer seems to be a little easier said than done.
As for the 3000 baht/night thing being too much, I understand what you guys mean, and I'm sure you're right, but I see it differently. I'm not hurting for cash, and 3000 means nothing to me, whereas to him it's huge. The reason for that is because I'm trying to "wow" him. That's what anyone starting a relationship anywhere in the world does, right? At first you sweep them off their feet, and later on it settles down, right?
And SF farang, no, I'm hardly a control freak. If anything, I'm the total opposite. I get pissed off when people aren't themselves.
Anyway, thanks for all the comments guys! Looks like there's nothing I don't already know. :-) No worries, and I'll get 'er figured! Cheers!
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Re: Advice for long-term needed...
It looks to me cdmatt that you have found true love!! Do not let the naysayers on this forum tell you that you have not found true love with a 3 week bar boy. That love is out there, and you found it!! Congratulations!! I remember when I first met my future husband, I was his first customer ever and we ended up falling in love!!
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Re: Advice for long-term needed...
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Originally Posted by Diec
It looks to me cdmatt that you have found true love!! Do not let the naysayers on this forum tell you that you have not found true love with a 3 week bar boy. That love is out there, and you found it!! Congratulations!! I remember when I first met my future husband, I was his first customer ever and we ended up falling in love!!
I second that-------theres nothing like a fresh hooker to get the juices flowing :pukeright: :pukeright: :pukeright: :pukeright: :pukeright: :pukeright:
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Re: Advice for long-term needed...
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnmatt
" ... As for the 3000 baht/night thing being too much, I understand what you guys mean, and I'm sure you're right, but I see it differently. I'm not hurting for cash, and 3000 means nothing to me, whereas to him it's huge. The reason for that is because I'm trying to "wow" him. That's what anyone starting a relationship anywhere in the world does, right? At first you sweep them off their feet, and later ... "
Normally I would think one would try sweeping someone else off their feet (at first anyway) by 'other means' than throwing cash at 'em. Maybe a little personality, a little fun together, a little gentleness, a little listening etc etc etc.
You've labeled yourself as an ATM already with the 3000 baht-a-day extravagance and that rep will be very difficult to turn around on a dime (so to speak).
The lack of a common language to learn about each other in is huge in my opinion, and starting out essentially mute ~ heady & heated with 'Relationship' in mind ~ right off the bat is easily disastrous, though not in every case ... good luck.
I am lucky enough to be in a very strong long-term love with a Thai guy (10 years this December, he brags :blackeye: ), but in all honesty I would say that the number one reason for it's longevity is his from-the-get-go facility in english. The downside of it is that it makes me lazy, but I'll live with that in the knowledge that he didn't have to break his butt learning the language for the sake of a relationship . . . he already had it within.
What you probably have going for you ~ perhaps the only thing besides the ATM card ~ is your relatively young age. There's a small chance that he might well fall head over heels for you no matter what the language barrier. But Gone Fishing makes a very good point to keep in mind: you will be seen as a great status-enhancer in the eyes of the guy's friends, if only for the young age. Make no mistake about it, this social dynamic is extremely important to Thai people, and so many westerners ignore ~ or don't comprehend ~ it's very deep pervasiveness in Thai life.
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Re: Advice for long-term needed...
SMILES knows all about Thai relationships, he wooed his elderly boy with a pickup truck ( no cash involved there) :argue: :argue: :argue: :argue:
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Re: Advice for long-term needed...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiles
What you probably have going for you ~ perhaps the only thing besides the ATM card ~ is your relatively young age. There's a small chance that he might well fall head over heels for you no matter what the language barrier. But Gone Fishing makes a very good point to keep in mind: you will be seen as a great status-enhancer in the eyes of the guy's friends, if only for the young age. Make no mistake about it, this social dynamic is extremely important to Thai people, and so many westerners ignore ~ or don't comprehend ~ it's very deep pervasiveness in Thai life.
I agree, Smiles hit the nail on the head.
You also need to understand the idea that most Thais don't think or make decisions independently. They tend to work and function best in groups and are influenced by their peers, friends and family a lot more than the average Westerner. It's not peer pressure because the average Thai willingly submits to this mob mentality! This isn't a derogatory comment, it's just part of Thai culture, and it has good and bad consequences.
What it means to you and your new-found boyfriend is that any decision he blindly makes is most likely what his mother or the network of other bar boys or whoever tells him to do. That's why all the girls/boys who work in the bars say the same stock phrases "You handsome man", "up to you" and so on. Once you've known him for a few weeks, you'll bet his friends will be telling him "say mother sick" "ask for diamond ring, ask for pickup truck" or the classic "kwai mai sabai" (three more Thai words to boost your vocab). Not saying he's going to be dishonest, but as a young guy who's new to the game, he's going to be looking to the other bar boys for bragging rights, recognition and advice.
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Re: Advice for long-term needed...
"I'm 27, look much younger, no Brad Pitt but fairly decent looking, nice guy, well composed, good hygiene, etc."
OMG. Are you for real? OK, this is just from my 68 year old point of view. Look at the customers in the boy bars. In most cases, we are older men who have not much to offer 19 year old boys except money. So, any relationship we have with them starts out as commercial, and it stays that way, though it may be tempered somewhat by something resembling "love" at a much later date.
So, I don't get it. Why would a young, "fairly decent looking" guy with obviously sufficient funding go to bars to look for "true love", for an LTR?
Current university students, recent graduates, young office workers, all of whom would speak some English, are available and perhaps would be less eager to empty your bank account for the sake of the farm and buffaloes in Issan.
Starting off with a bar boy who speaks no English, and wait 2-3 years till you two can communicate meaningfully??? What if neither of you will like what the other says, the way the other thinks???
But I have made so many mistakes in this area that my comments have to be taken with multiple grains of salt.
All I can say is Choke dee, na.
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Re: Advice for long-term needed...
Wake up and smell the coffee - You Can't Have a meaningful long term relationship with a money boy!!! You're in big denial right now - one day you'll see.
Cut his daily allowance from 3000 baht to 500 baht and see if he is still as you say "molesting you". No money no honey is their motto.
You're young - stay away from the bar boys and find someone compatible - Pattaya is NOT the place to find your life partner.
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Re: Advice for long-term needed...
I have to agree with the above. You're talking about a prostitue you picked out of a line-up. You picked him; he didn't pick you. You can take a boy out of the bar, but you can never take the bar out of the boy. You are signing up for a lifetime of paying a prostitute.
At your age, you can do better.
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Re: Advice for long-term needed...
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsaigon
"I'm 27, look much younger, no Brad Pitt but fairly decent looking, nice guy, well composed, good hygiene, etc."
OMG. Are you for real? OK, this is just from my 68 year old point of view. Look at the customers in the boy bars. In most cases, we are older men who have not much to offer 19 year old boys except money. So, any relationship we have with them starts out as commercial, and it stays that way, though it may be tempered somewhat by something resembling "love" at a much later date.
So, I don't get it. Why would a young, "fairly decent looking" guy with obviously sufficient funding go to bars to look for "true love", for an LTR?
Current university students, recent graduates, young office workers, all of whom would speak some English, are available and perhaps would be less eager to empty your bank account for the sake of the farm and buffaloes in Issan.
Starting off with a bar boy who speaks no English, and wait 2-3 years till you two can communicate meaningfully??? What if neither of you will like what the other says, the way the other thinks???
But I have made so many mistakes in this area that my comments have to be taken with multiple grains of salt.
All I can say is Choke dee, na.
Maybe he went there for some quick, easy to get fun... and ended up falling in love.
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Re: Advice for long-term needed...
The "social status enhancer" thing mentioned by a few posters is true. Picking up a cute, young, well to do foreigner is a big status enhancer thing with many Thai boys...
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Re: Advice for long-term needed...
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnmatt
Thanks for the comments everyone! Except for you SF farang. Are you that much of a dick in real life too? I mean, really, what's the point?
Actually, I did not find SF Farang's post all that offensive. I agree with many of his points though I know you don't want to hear that side of the equation. You really learn more from the critical posts than those who are taking the cheer leader approach.
I might ask, what's your point in posting if you did not want to hear from all sides?
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Re: Advice for long-term needed...
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnmatt
I was already married for three years. Met in Toronto, we were both 22, genuinely fell in love, got married, travelled the world, and the whole nine yards. I got hurt very badly through it though, so I'm not really looking for a genuine, natural relationship. I'm looking for more of a contractual relationship this time around, where we're BOTH happy with things. There's tons of contractual relationships out there, both in Asia and in the West. About 8 months into my previous marriage, I ended up financially responsible for everything due to various reasons, so I'm fine with that.
The plot thickens and is near perfect! My suggestion is to give him 75,000 a month, with annual increments, and make it officially a contractual relationship as well since you're "fine with that". I should be so lucky to be in the same position! You have engineered this perfectly and you should formalize it with a legal contract.
Look, you have the money, this boy is making you very happy. What the hell! Why not?
Forget the nay sayers! You may never have this golden opportunity again! Go for it! :thumbright:
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Re: Advice for long-term needed...
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrongpaiExpat
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnmatt
Thanks for the comments everyone! Except for you SF farang. Are you that much of a dick in real life too? I mean, really, what's the point?
Actually, I did not find SF Farang's post all that offensive. I agree with many of his points though I know you don't want to hear that side of the equation. You really learn more from the critical posts than those who are taking the cheer leader approach.
I might ask, what's your point in posting if you did not want to hear from all sides?
SF had some valid points... but I don't think there's any need to be this insulting or negatively assumptive when offering feedback.
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Re: Advice for long-term needed...
In terms of getting him to stop working in the bar, this might be possible. But it's not going to be sustainable in the long term if he is doing nothing else... i.e. nothing constructive.
You might want to consider helping him into another occupation... whether by teaching him English or supporting some studies.
If the relationship doesn't work out... you might want to consider (if you haven't already) going out to meet Thai boys elsewhere... online, in clubs and discos... etc. There's plenty of ordinary Thai boys to have fun with. Many would never consider being paid for sex. Others are 100% money boys. Some are sort of in between... they are ordinary Thai boys who are "opportunists"... they want to have fun but wouldn't mind some "support" or "gifts".
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Re: Advice for long-term needed...
Well taking all the above in to account, and if as you say you are a presentable 27 yo then sure, your boy has gained a lot of kudos with his friends - but if you are paying the 19 yo more than the salary of a Thai International airline pilot and similar professionals and think that has no bearing on his feelings and attitude to you, then you must have the blinkers well and truly super glued on IMHO.
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Re: Advice for long-term needed...
Ok, this is starting to get pretty useless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by khorthodkrub
You're young - stay away from the bar boys and find someone compatible - Pattaya is NOT the place to find your life partner.
No, I don't want to. :P I've already had my "life partner", did the whole forever and always thing for years, joint bank accounts, etc. Didn't work out, and I don't feel like putting myself in a position where I can get that hurt at the moment. At least with this I know what I'm getting myself into from the beginning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beach Bunny
You're talking about a prostitue you picked out of a line-up. You picked him; he didn't pick you. You can take a boy out of the bar, but you can never take the bar out of the boy.
He was working in a bar for about 3 weeks, so you're telling me I can't take that out of him? I could understand if he was there for years, because I've already been though that, but 3 weeks? Only major concern is what other people have already said; he's going to take advice from his friends, who have been here for years, way before he'll ever listen to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beach Bunny
At your age, you can do better.
Been there, done that, don't want to do it again, at least not right now. I like to help people in a way they can't help themselves. It's what makes me sleep well at night. Say I go meet some 23yo who's going to university for an engineering degree. How am I supposed to help him? I can't. This 19yo on the other hand, if he wants, I can transform his entire life for him. And you can't tell me he doesn't want love, security, stability, to be taken care of, and a better life for both himself and his family. Not wanting that defies human nature, regardless of culture.
And I know right now I'm a status symbol + ATM machine for him, because I've already been paraded around lots by other boys who like to show me off. I know how it goes. I was just looking for advice from others who have had long-term relationships, and how to make them realize that it's worth while seeing me differently. Obviously, I'm not going to get that here.
Anyway, I'm outta here! For those who posted supporting comments and great advice, thank you very much! For the cynics, it must suck to have such a shitty view of the world. I've been an entrepreneur for about a decade for a reason, so I'll take care of it. If you wanted, I'll post an update in about 4 weeks letting you know everything is going great. Just watch. ;)
Cheers boys!
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Re: Advice for long-term needed...
Like I said - you're in a dream world and only want to hear positive feedback to confirm your wishes. I suggest you remove the money from your love equation and see if the goo goo gaa gaa continues. Honestly I hope that you proof me wrong... but I doubt it.
BTW - 4 week is too short of a time to report back - Of course everything will continue to be great as long as the cash continues to flow. Being cynical and realistic are two different things.
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Re: Advice for long-term needed...
Sure, I'm in a dream world. I'll agree with that, but hey, that's where dreams are made. ;) Can't tell me the impossible isn't possible. ;)
Anyway, obviously I won't get any helpful advice from here, so talk to you boys later!
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Re: Advice for long-term needed...
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnmatt
Sure, I'm in a dream world. I'll agree with that, but hey, that's where dreams are made. ;) Can't tell me the impossible isn't possible. ;)
Anyway, obviously I won't get any helpful advice from here, so talk to you boys later!
Why do you bother to ask for advice if you are going to rudely dismiss it when it does not come back as you want it to?
You are talking to people decades and decades older than you -- many of us have been through it all before. You'd be wise to listen up, because you are on the verge of wasting months or years of your lives, and untold thousands of dollars, on someone who probably does not love you and never will.
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Re: Advice for long-term needed...
I think that cdnmatt may be the least deluded of people writing here. He has already said he is looking for something that is a contractual arrangement. He has found a boy who he really likes and has the financial wherewithal to set the terms of engagement. I think he is on the right track.
In fact, he seems to be one of the most clear thinking people on this board. I don't see much dreamlike fantasy in his approach.
Most of the respondents here are projecting too much of their own fantasies into cdnmatt's story. Enjoy yourself cdnmatt and don't be distracted by the tired old queers on this board. :salute:
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Re: Advice for long-term needed...
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnmatt
Quote:
Originally Posted by khorthodkrub
You're young - stay away from the bar boys and find someone compatible - Pattaya is NOT the place to find your life partner.
No, I don't want to. :P I've already had my "life partner", did the whole forever and always thing for years, joint bank accounts, etc. Didn't work out, and I don't feel like putting myself in a position where I can get that hurt at the moment. At least with this I know what I'm getting myself into from the beginning.
Cheers boys!
This is an absolutely brilliant response cdnmatt. Most here can't see what you're driving at since they have been blinded by their own failures. :thumbright:
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Re: Advice for long-term needed...
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnmatt
Hey everyone,
I'm 27, look much younger, no Brad Pitt but fairly decent looking, nice guy, well composed, good hygiene, etc.
Cheers guys!
After reading all the comments, etc, this post is even more curious then the Curious Case of Benjamin Button, who, as Brad Pitt, got younger and younger.
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Re: Advice for long-term needed...
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Re: Advice for long-term needed...
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnmatt
Because nobody ever answered my original question(s). For the most part, for responses I got, "right on man, congrats!", or "you're a complete, naive fool who has no clue". Not to sound like a jerk, but all the advice I got was the standard shit that anyone who's spent more than two weeks in Pattaya already knows.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking for genuine, true love, or my soulmate, or anything like that. Already found my soul mate once, and he turned out to be an asshole, so don't particularly want to find another one. Just looking for a mutually beneficial relationship. He takes care of me, I take care of him, and we're both better off in life for it. Simple as that. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnmatt
So, I want him for long-term, but I'm a little unsure how this all works here. Do I just offer him to live with me, and offer to pay him say 500 baht per day (15,000/month)? I've been told the average go-go boy without customers makes 3000/month, so I think that's reasonable, no? Or is that too cheap? I don't need or want sex every night, have a really nice 1bdrm condo, he'll have his own key so he can come and go as he wants, if he wants I can get him an English tutor, and myself a Thai tutor, etc.
Fair enough... and here is my advice:
1. Don't let him move in with you - rent a 4500/month room for him. This way you guys can spend as much time as you like and whenever each one of you need some space - he can always go back to his room. This can also make it easier should things not work out between the two of you without you having to physically kick him out of your condo.
2. Give him a budget of 10,000 baht spending money per month. This should include utilities, food, clothes, etc, but excluding rent.
3. Tell him you're NOT interested in visiting and/or knowing his family (at least at this early stage of your friendship) - as this will cost you plenty!!
Good luck.