https://youtu.be/W_1Uc3dZQ-c
https://youtu.be/W_1Uc3dZQ-c
Printable View
Aren't Thai bank accounts only insured for up to 1 million THB?
That is true. If you wish to save more than 1million baht and you feel concerned, you can open a second bank account.
I wouldn't start worrying about this. First, this applies only to the Los Angeles Thai Consulate and only about O-A visas which, in my opinion, these days is the most foolish visa to get with all the nonsense going on about it. What I noticed, but he did not mention, when he was showing the paperwork the proof of 65,000 baht per month income was now 100,000 baht per month.
Consulates, just like immigration, can be very good at making up their own rules. Sometimes when you walk into immigration, you can't be sure what you're walking into. In my opinion, for those who wish to retire in Thailand, do everything within Thailand for obtaining your visa. That way you will have an O visa, not an O-A. If you already hold an O-A, I would look into whatever is necessary to do to get it switched over to an O visa, even if it requires a Thai attorney or a visa agent to help get it done. And, as my dad used to say. "Do it now. RIGHT now!"
The way things are happening in Thailand, if you are going to retire in Thailand, you definitely want your retirement visa to be the O visa, not the O-A. And the only way to get the O visa is to get it within Thailand.
Other than that, I see no reason to be worried about any upcoming changes.
Interesting video, but as the person notes, he and his Thai legal staff have seen nothing officially of a change in financial requirements for retirement. But he does note that it may be a an indication of changes that will come about in the (near?) future.
Will such change come about -- IMO it is possible. The current requirement for 800,000 baht has been in place for more than 20 years. Needless to say, costs in Thailand have increased over those years. But, if it does come about, it most likely will only impact those obtaining visas or doing first extensions after rules are officially changed (which, as yet have not happened).
In the past, when changes were made, those already on extensions of stay were "grand fathered" in and so long as they keep their extensions continuous, the old amount (800k for most of us. Section 2.22 of the current Immigration Police order governing extensions has the following re those that were on extensions of stay prior to October 21, 1998:
Quote:
(6) An alien who entered the Kingdom before October 21, 1998 and has been
consecutively permitted to stay in the Kingdom for retirement shall be subject to the following
criteria:
(a) Must be 60 years of age or over and have an annual fixed income with fluids
maintained in a bank account for the past three months of no less than Baht 200,000 or have
a monthly income of no less than Baht 20,000
(b) If less than 60 years of age but not less than 55 years of age, must have an annual
fixed income with funds maintained in a bank account for the past three months of no less
than Baht 500,000 or have a monthly income of no less than Baht 50,000
The fact that the Managing Director of the Law Firm speaking in this video didn't contact the Royal Thai Consulate in LA directly to question this erroneous requirement BEFORE broadcasting this video publicly is both negligent and totally unprofessional in my opinion.
Law firms like this have a track-record of fear mongering when it serves their best interest, and personally, I won't pay any heed to this piece of flimsy speculation at all.
There are 63 Thai embassies and 40 consulates operating around the world and not a single one (other than LA) has mentioned this erroneous requirement. According to the Managing Directors own statements, there has been no mention of this policy change in Thailand at all. And that includes the Thai lawyers who work in his office, who, one would assume, are connected to the network over here and have their ears close to the train tracks. And one has heard anything?
He should have contacted the LA Consulate before opening his mouth...Bottom Line.
React as you choose. But I wouldn't go changing your visa classification (O, O-A, etc.)...messing with your bank account(s), or anything else based on this nonsense.
As 2Lz2p mentioned, if changes like this were to occur in the future they would probably apply the "grand father" clause anyway.
Maybe the Integrity Legal Law Firm who produced this video should look at the LA Thai Consulates web site again. It appears as if the error has already been corrected. Go figure!
(Site link below)
O-A Visa Requirements:
4. Bank statement or evidence of adequate finance showing
– a deposit of the amount equal to and not less than 800,000 Baht; or
– an income certificate (an original copy) with a monthly income of not less than 65,000 Baht; or
– a deposit account plus a monthly income totaling not less than 800,000 Baht.
– In the case of submitting a bank statement, a letter of guarantee from the bank
(an original copy) is required.
https://thaiconsulatela.org/en/visa/...-category-o-a/
There is a saying “when someone tells you who they are believe them” the government wants wealthy tourists and expats, what part don’t you get?
And it wouldn't be this guy's first time. It is exactly what you call it - fear mongering.
If anyone out there wants to get themselves nervous or frightened by this, be my guest.
Meanwhile, this was also posted on my board. I deleted it. I'll scare people when there's a good, valid, confirmed reason to scare them. This isn't it. There has been more than enough of that over the past few years.
The easiest way to avoid O-A visa problems is not to get an O-A visa. Come to Thailand. Get your retirement visa here. Now you'll have the O visa. Seems like a no-brainer to me.
OK...here's the so-called "updated site": https://thaiconsulatela.org/en/non.o/
You'll notice that the Updated Site (LA Only) being discussed in the video also says the following:
"TYPE "O" VISA HOLDERS ARE PERMITTED TO STAY IN THAILAND FOR 90 DAYS"
"TYPE "O-A" VISA HOLDERS ARE PERMITTED TO STAY IN THAILAND FOR 1 YEAR"
Choke on that one...if you're into get fear-mongered.
Dodger, I am not concerned, when the time comes if I choose I still have more than 1.2 million on deposit but originally when the embassy’s stopped validating income and these discussions began even on Gaybutton many acknowledged these initial income requirements were likely to change over time so I am not surprised. I am fortunate that I sold my condo at a peak time and rent a nice condo now however, if the government continues to change requirements I am under no obligation to stay. I don’t wear rose colored glasses so I am not easily fear-mongered. What will be will be.
I know you're not, but many others start needlessly panicking at these kinds of things. I believe this guy spotted something online and jumped on it as a means of advertising himself.
Of course anything can happen. I recommend doing the worrying when something actually does happen.
The Los Angeles web site does say - for the O-A visa ( https://thaiconsulatela.org/en/non-o/ ):
Applicant must have a bank deposit of
7.1 no less than 1,200,000 Baht or
7.2 an income certificate (an original copy) with a monthly income (pension) of not less than 100,000 Baht, or
7.3 a deposit account plus a monthly income (pension) totaling not less than 1,200,000 Baht.
Even if that is correct, let me know if any other Thai consulate or embassy anywhere in the world or whether immigration in Thailand is saying the same thing.
With all the problems involving the O-A visa, I don't know why these days anyone would want one in the first place, no matter what the income requirements are.
Don't let that clown in the video bother you.
He's actually got better over the years. He used to forget what he was talking about right in the middle of a sentence, and just stand there gazing into space like he just crapped in his pants. Just too funny!
One of his Thai lawyers probably got linked into the LA consulates new (draft) website...read this updated version before the ink's even dry... and ran into the clowns office all excited - like a rookie detective cracking his first case. Then Clown gets his video recorder out and starts babbling like a 9 year old trying to sound like he actually knows what's going on. He was actually a running joke with the gang at Corner Bar.
You may want to apply some caution when making these types of public statements about the O-A Visa.
I'm not disagreeing with you, and I don't want to debate this with you, but there are more-then-likely going to be some Retirement Visa changes coming our way - and nobody knows exactly what those changes are. (see post #11 comments)
1 I wouldn't worry too much about speculation based on unreliable sources. Even if some people love that.
2 On the other hand, there are a wide range of things that could happen over (say) a 1 to 30 year time horizon.
(i) Any expat living anywhere on the planet could be forced to leave. Over the last 50 years, we read of everything from recent massive increases in income requirement for expats in Malaysia, to countries expelling foreigners. The latter is perhaps lower probability.
(ii) Exchange rates can move all over the damn place. Not just a couple of % here and there, but by 100% or more.
(iii) Geopolitical events.
Ideally one would have more passports than Jason Bourne and many millions of $ distributed over about 5 continents. However, most have more modest resources and need a less ambitious plan B.
Aside from the accuracy of the advice or otherwise my personal view in life is never to trust anyone who feels the needs to have multiple certificates and awards dotted all over their office as from experience they're usually so up their own ass I wouldn't want to deal with them OR they must be exceptionally good at what they do and so will probably charge twice what the guy down the street charges who can probably do the same job quite adequately for my needs anyway most times !
I agree. And when no new laws go into effect, immigration can be very good about just making up their own rules. Nothing new about that. My point is I think it is pointless to worry about what might change until something does change.
I don't think anyone is going to argue that so far Thailand has made their rules much more difficult for O-A visa holders than they have for O visa holders.
I don't get it...
I thought I had read somewhere a few months ago that the government had set up yet another committee to review the entire issue of retirement visas. As @2lz2p points out, the present system and income amounts have basically been in place for decades. Various Immigration chiefs have tinkered with it but I do think a complete revision should take place to make retirement more simple and with just oe or two options.
Every time this topic comes up, I get the feeling there are those in government who want to encourage retirees to change over to the Thai Elite scheme. Presently this provides several options, the most popular probably being a 5 year stay for 600,000 Baht with the option to extend by a further 15 years for an additional 400,000 Baht. The scheme offers additional benefits but few are likely to be of much interest to most retirees. The problem of course is that these are non returnable fees. On the other hand, the 800,000/400,000 baht in an account route for virtually for each year cannot be touched unless you leave the country or die - as far as i understand it.
I know several retirees without pensions or social security who have joined the Elite scheme and are very happy with it. But then they know they plan to remain in the Kingdom for the rest of their lives - or are rich!
Every time this topic comes up I find myself either laughing, choking, groaning, gagging, or just getting dizzy and falling into a catatonic trance.. Not sure why this happens. Just a natural reflex I guess.
If my monthly retirement income wasn't enough to qualify for a retirement visa in Thailand, I wouldn't have retired here. Having 800,000 THB frozen in a Thai bank account is something I would never even consider. The Elite Plan is a sham. It would be a cold day in hell before I walked into Immigration and handed anyone 600,000 THB for anything.
This is Thailand. And the way I look at it, they (Immigration) will do everything in their power to get as much money from you as they can, and will use their legal discretion (legal loop holes) to do exactly that. The only way to beat them at this game is to not play the game. And the only way to not play the game is to comply with the requirements. No huge sums of money frozen in their banks. No small fortunes slid into their pockets. And no visa agents - who serve as nothing more than the conduit for the flow of funny-money into the same pockets. You either have the income necessary to live here - or you don't.
If they were to ever raise the monthly income levels in excess of what I'm bringing in without having a "grandfather" clause,, I'd move to another country.
I fully understand that some people have plenty of money in the bank, but don't have a monthly retirement income that meets the minimum requirements. For them, I guess the 800,000 THB method is something to consider, BUT, only if they're financially secure enough to be able to freeze this amount of money in their bank without incurring any financial hardships. The problems come into play (happens often) when people are not financially secure enough to do this on a continual basis and start having financial problems. To be honest, if I was in their shoes, I would not have selected Thailand as my place for retirement.
Firstly, Thailand is perfectly entitled to target only wealthy retirees.
However, to join the Elite scheme, you either need to be truly Elite and have so much money that the sum is insignificant OR for those with normal finances, it's necessary to trust the Thai government will honour the Elite scheme for the duration, without downgrading it or adding other costs.
The Elite scheme is supposed to buy residency rights for a period.
However, if I'm not mistaken there was a period in 2020 when Thai citizens were allowed to return to Thailand and Elite members were not. So that's a fail already.
Then with all the chopping and changing elsewhere, who says whey will not add other requirements for Elite visa holders ?
You're right, They can target anything they want, but actually hitting the target is a horse of a different color..
Why would a truly wealthy person want to retire in Thailand in these current conditions? I'm sure they would enjoy anchoring their private yachts along Bali Hai Pier to gaze across the polluted beach at the homeless people sleeping in front of Pattaya's five star Taco Bell...LOL
Frankly, Thailand's going to hand its hands full just trying to keep people from leaving if they don't get their acts together.
Once again Amazing Dodgems proves how utterly out of touch he is -
https://sydney.thaiembassy.org/en/pu...-visa-type-o-a
AseanNow just posted that 2 Thai Consulates in Australia (Melbourne and Sydney) have also revised the financial requirements for O-A Visas - increasing the financial amount similar to what the U.S/LA Consulate did.
Interesting that the only Long Stay/Retirement Visa (1 year) offered now in Australia appears to be the Non-immigrant O-A. The O type visa is shown as pertaining to Thai nationals and their spouses and is only valid for 90 day stays - similar to what the "updated LA Consulate is showing".
Is it possible that the "O' Visa will no longer be used for retirement going forward? It's starting to look that way.
(See link below)
https://sydney.thaiembassy.org/en/pu...isa-categories
What makes you think so? All of this applies to people applying for the retirement visa outside of Thailand. It has nothing to do with applying for the retirement visa within Thailand. Those who apply within Thailand and qualify get the O retirement visa. Within Thailand, the O-A visa isn't even offered.
Again, I don't know why anyone would want the O-A visa rather than the O.
The last time I said that, you responded with, "You may want to apply some caution when making these types of public statements about the O-A Visa."
Why would I want to apply caution to that type of public statement? I can't think of any reason at all. If you can, I'd like to know what there is to be cautious about.
I am very thankful I have an O long stay visa, however, I suspect at sometime the O visa will be subject to the same inherent problems that come with the O-A visa.
You're recommending to people holding O-A Visas to switch over to an O visa, even if it requires an attorney or agent, because, in your opinion, the O-A Visa is definitely not the way to go. If that's what you feel comfortable recommending to our readers, than by-all-means, continue on.
I'm fully aware of the fact that the "O" Visa requirements outlined on the foreign consulate sites pertain to those applying for this Visa in their home countries. The language has changed very recently which, in my opinion, could be part of a restructuring going on with the Thai Visa Program. There are other indications that this is going on as well. Not knowing what the end result will be, would tell me that it wasn't a good time for anyone to jump-the-gun and be making any changes until the dust is settled. And that's the only piece of advice I would have for our readers.
With all due respect, if anyone ran out and switched their Visa's from "O-A" to "O" and then found out that Type O was no longer used for retirement purposes, they could have a real mess on their hands... understanding that the O and O-A are inherently the same, and the O Visa was never really intended for this purpose from the beginning - and Immigration knows it. Only time will tell...but it's certainly not the time to be running out in a panic mode to make visa changes.
I don't know what you're talking about. If there is a way - within Thailand - to change from O-A to O and avoid all these O-A visa hassles, I don't understand why you find fault with that. What am I missing?
Meanwhile, I think the question is academic. I've had some farang friends try to do it, but to make a long story short they essentially were told once you have the O-A, you always have the O-A.
In my opinion the best thing to do is get the retirement visa within Thailand. That way you'll have the O visa and problem solved.
the Non O visa is, and always has been, a short-stay visa - the permission to stay on arrival is 90 days
the Non O-A visa is, and always has been, a long-stay visa - the permission to stay on arrival is 12 months
don't be confused by the fact that you can do a 12 month extension of a permission to stay for retirement based on a current permission to stay from either visa - though the requirements are different
both the Foreign Ministry (embassies and consulates) and the Interior Ministry (Immigration Police) seem comfortable with this distinction at present - though the speculation is that this may change at some stage, and this is certainly possible
I don't know about new - I have been told twice in the last 20 years by the consulate in Sydney that it is not their policy to issue a NON O visa for people wishing to retire in Thailand - this in their opinion is a policy of the Immigration Police in Thailand only - instead they suggest either applying for a Non O-A visa in Sydney, or enter Thailand on a Tourist visa and apply for a NON O visa in Thailand. the Honorary Consulate in Perth seemed to disagree with this, I am not sure about the embassy in Canberra!
Obviously different consulates and embassies have had their own interpretation of this at different times, as have different Immigration Police offices in Thailand, and there may well be a policy change happening now or in the future from the Foreign Ministry or the Interior Ministry but it all seems to be a bit unknown at this time, particularly in relation to NON O visas and extensions of permission to stay
and GB, despite your constant protestations, not everyone is in the same situation as you are, and even with the current insurance requirements for entry and extension of permission to stay with a NON O-A visa there are still a number of scenarios where a Non O-A visa may be a better choice - perhaps not for you but for other people, and they need to consider their requirements and read and understand the significant differences between the two visa classes and the differences between getting extensions on permission to stay based on these visa classes, if they actually even need to do this.
It would be very nice if someone would do a nice logical Excel table summarizing the difference between all the different Thai visa categories.
- Ideally the authorities would do this, but it seems logical thinking is not important there.
- It's probably too much to expect visa agencies to do that, as they make a living from the confusion.
- If any of the expert expats fancy stepping up to the plate, it would be much appreciated.
So assuming you did not have social security at a certain level or a pension because you had worked for various companies without pensions - true of many who work in Asia - where would you have retired to? You forget that not every one is as fortunate as you. Some others have to find different ways, either through the 800,000 route or Thailand Elite. Is there another route for those who have no pension? As for those who dismiss Thailand Elite, I know several who are members and not one thinks it is anything but a great move for them in their financial circumstances. Which is the better alternative? 800K locked in a bank account for life or until you leave (I believe) or 1 million for 20 years visa?
And remember that if the government can change the Thailand Elite programme, it is in my view more likely to change the retirement visa requirements first. Thailand Elite seems to be aimed primarily at those the government actually want to live here. Does it want everyone paying 65K per month when that amount has remained static for a great many years. Surely it is bound to go up sooner rather than later. And of so, by how much? Remember too that the 800,000 route was changed only a couple of years ago to make that route more difficult for many people. For how much longer will that 65K remain at that level?