My Experiences in HERO and Tawan Aug 2012

Thanks for those offering me information in July for my first experiences in HERO and Tawan :happy7:

I am 27yo Asian and loves Muscle types. Have been to Bangkok many times before, but never had a chance to visit Hero & Tawan.

My brief experiences in Aug

HERO: been there twice in one week. Fees as told on internet. 600B for basic room and 1000B min for tips. Quite disappointed 1st time. just some very small muscle guys. there are about 20 guys upon my arrival at 4:30PM, However I am not interested in any of them, the quality of guys are not as amazing as i have heard online. chatted with the boss for 5 mins, he told me to come tomorrow, he will have the right guy for me.

2nd visit , the next day, there really is a quite lean muscle guy. service is good. he is polite. sex is great. Actually I don't really like the room. my hotel is very close to HERO, I privately asked him for his mobile no... and asked if he would come to my hotel 11:00 AM. before he goes to work as my place is very near, and i could pay a little bit more tips. I agreed but the next few days, he never answered my call..... not sure why....So Hero guys are not willing to make private appoitments? :8(

Tawan: in Aug....Mmmmm No.... Guys are so so so so fat. there's almost no really muscle guys, except for one, in great shape , the only one in the bar, chatting with several farang guest. Because other guys are indeed not in the shape at all. he seems to be the only one. I sensed a little bit arragant from him , he asked for 2500B for short time, plus taxi fees back home....I didn't make the deal. :nud:

End of Nov till Early Dec, I will be in BKK again. Not sure if Tawan is still packed with so many fat guys this period of time. Are they really in good shape ONLY after competition? :gy:

Thanks for posting your trip experience. I sent you a Private Message.

Hi nescool.

Thanks for the trip report

Do you know anywhere you can see pics of the Hero guys online?

They dont have a website and there seems to be very few pics of them around.

Why did you not ask the manager of Hero for "home delivery" ( normally no problem at all)? I am pretty sure that the boy did not come to your hotel because he did not want to risk his job....

Now let's see:

The OP goes into Hero, doesn't fancy anything, and has a friendly chat with the owner/boss who says he will have the type he wants tomorrow night.

The OP goes along the next night, sees the object of his desire at work - but rather than pay the off (which would be the correct thing to do), instead gets the boy's mobile number and makes a private arrangement (in the bar presumably) for the boy to come to his hotel next day. He even suggests the boy can have an "extra tip" - well, since he has cheated the venue of the off fee, I suppose he can afford a bit more!

Incorrect behaviour by the OP in my view - he met the boy in the Boss's time, on the Boss's premises.
So why not just pay the Boss the off fee and have the boy come to the hotel next day?
This sneaky misdeed by the OP was only redeemed by the fact the boy didn't go through with it - so at least ONE of them knows how to behave.

And the OP has the cheek to come on here and complain? :violent1: :violent1: :violent1:

Well first of all, thanks for your reply. But I don't think there's anything incorrect in my behaviour. I paid ALL i should for this service, and please note what I said, I asked the boy to come to my hotel during his OWN FREE TIME BEFORE WORK, which does NOT occupy any of his working time, totally according to his own wish, and he agreed. I agree with you that if i want to take him out during his work time. i should pay an off fee , which is not in my case. i don't see any thing i behave incorrect at all. I am polite , negociable, and offered an extra tip.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nescool

... please note what I said, I asked the boy to come to my hotel during his OWN FREE TIME BEFORE WORK...

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That (in my opinion) is not the point.

You met this boy in Hero, while he was working - that is the salient point.

The only reason you were able to meet him at all was because he was being paid by his Boss to work in Hero that night, and instead of doing the decent thing and telling his boss "I want this boy to come to my hotel tomorrow, how much is the off fee" you instead gave him your phone number in order to make a private arrangement and avoid the off fee.

You do realise that if the boy had taken you up on your offer and his Boss had found out , there is every chance the boy would have been sacked?

:occasion9:

I tend to agree with SG on this one, but perhaps DaBoss can give a view? In this instance I don't understand why the OP didn't just off the boy the first time they met, and pay the bar/club the off fee (have to admit I don't know if Hero is a bar, go-go, or whatever).

Quote:

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That (in my opinion) is not the point.

You met this boy in Hero, while he was working - that is the salient point.

The only reason you were able to meet him at all was because he was being paid by his Boss to work in Hero that night, and instead of doing the decent thing and telling his boss "I want this boy to come to my hotel tomorrow, how much is the off fee" you instead gave him your phone number in order to make a private arrangement and avoid the off fee.

You do realise that if the boy had taken you up on your offer and his Boss had found out , there is every chance the boy would have been sacked?

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Oh my GOD, i never expect this could lead to an argument. Listen, You still DON'T get undertand what I have said. i DIDN'T go into HERO, saw the boy, and told him, hey would you like to come to my place during your free time? and got this cell number and leave, NO! I paid the boss, paid the boy and got the service. All i was saying was AFTER the service, i felt i was satisfied and wanted to have him again in his free time. Is there anything wrong with that? The boy was NOT sold to HERO 24H a day...., he is free when he is off-work, it is a mutual and legal transaction. not a dirty trick.

Let me ask you if you meet a boy on street, and he said i work for XXX bar, will you tell him, hey take me to your bar and let me pay your boss, simply because you worked there everyday....
:glasses7:

Quote:

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I tend to agree with SG on this one, but perhaps DaBoss can give a view? In this instance I don't understand why the OP didn't just off the boy the first time they met, and pay the bar/club the off fee (have to admit I don't know if Hero is a bar, go-go, or whatever)

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I didn't just off the boy the first time SIMPLY because that's my very FIRST time. I didn't know how it was like. After that, i found the service is good, but i don't like the room , sheet not so clean, and the room actually does't not provide good privacy, somebody could hear you next door if you make any sound.

And, HERO is a massage place, I thought i could off a boy ONLY in a go-go bar.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nescool

Let me ask you if you meet a boy on street, and he said i work for XXX bar, will you tell him, hey take me to your bar and let me pay your boss, simply because you worked there everyday....

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Meeting a boy by chance in the street is a different thing totally.

What you did was meet the boy at the sex venue where he's employed - (whether it's a massage shop or a gogo or whatever) - the venue facilitated the meeting and/or arrangement, so you pay the Boss.

If you stumble over a boy in the street who happens to work in a sex venue then of course you don't pay the venue - as the venue did not facilitate the meeting/arrangement.

I accept that you say you did not "misbehave" intentionally - but those are (I believe) the generally accepted rules!

Scots you do get the bit that on the second visit he did ( if I'm reading it right) off the guy, pay the required fee, go to the venues short time room, had his fun, paid the guy, concluded all business and only THEN when everyone was paid their required rates ( including the boos) he asked the guy would he be interested in joining him the next morning outside of bar working hours at the OPs hotel as it was cleaner / better suited for the OP etc?

Whilst I get that go go bar owners may say " ah I should still get my cut no matter what as he met him on my premises in the first place" but I would think perhaps most reasonable minded people might be of the same opinion as the Op in that he'd paid his fair and full whack to the bar for that nights service and anything after hours over and above that would be between him and the guy.......perhaps others would disagree about that but I think as he DID pay the full whack required during his visit it's a fine line just how far one can and should be expected to go down that road on them re paying the bar for every and any meeting thereafter perhaps. As if he happened to have met him at a food stall an hour later would be STILL be expected to return to the bar to pay up even though the guy was at work the next day as normal ?

Again it would be different if he was offing him again the next day during bar hours etc but I'm surmising in this case it was simply a short time deal before the guy started work hence it was solely in his own time and at the guys own discretion. As others have said it might be interesting to hear Neals (retired) professional opinion on this one as whilst I may not have been just so forward to have asked for the guys number in the bar as that's such a red rag to a bull to bar owners ( quite rightly most times) if he'd of met him outside etc I think it's fair enough to all parties ? Neal - what do you think ??

NIrish Guy and OP - I actually missed that the deed was done on the premises and everyone was paid what was due, so apologies to the OP. I've never tried to arrange out of hours service so won't comment on that aspect.

(btw, NIrish - please use shorter sentences - you're posts are getting hard to follow - but always worth the effort :notworthy:

In a word - no :-) as half my posts are banged out on my phone while I'm in the middle of doing something else if I was to sit and compose every word and or ask everyone to write as I might like I'd be here all day - so i guess the rule of "if people don't like it" ( and I know some / many dont) they should of course simply ignore my posts and move on - and theres no offence intended there by the way I'm just being honest at the level of effort I'm prepared to invest on an Internet message board I guess - and rightly or wrongly that's the way of it I'm afraid, just take bigger breath, you'll be FINE honestly :-) but thank you for the positive comments too. :-)

Yes, I do get the fact that the OP paid for his fun - and of course that's as it should be, and I can have no issue with that. He paid his money and he got the service. Fine.

However the fact remains that whilst on the premises he then privately arranged a "return fixture", to take place in his hotel the next day. In those circumstances I feel he is technically liable to pay an off fee (or whatever you want to call it) and should (at the very least) clear this with the boss so as to avoid any dispute.

It becomes a case of where do you draw the line - are people saying it's OK because he made the arrangement immediately after he had paid for a session? I'm sure if he had gone into the premises to make the arrangement with the boy for a "hotel visit" the following day or a week later, you'd all be saying he has to pay.

Surely it's the principle of the thing, not the timing of it.

Now if he had bumped into the same boy "off-duty" in the street or on the beach on another day, then I think that's fair enough - but they way I see it - when you make arrangements in a whorehouse (of whatever designation - bar, massage) you pay the Madame!!

:occasion9:

Oh after reading newalans post I must confess I didn't register it was a massage place and not a go go which in that case in my view ABSOLUTELY wipes out any requirement for an off fee or any further form of payment to the premises fir work undertaken outside of office hours - never in a million years would I even dream of paying that- and I don't honestly think it would even be expected by the massage shop owner if truth be told !

I'm sorry NIrish, I don't see how that comes into it at all - there has been no suggestion that the massage boy's shift was finished just because he had serviced the OP on the premises :dontknow:

If the boy was still "on duty" - and nothing has been said to the contrary - then I would have thought he ought not to be available for private arrangements without an off fee or a "takeaway fee" (talk about splitting hairs!) being due.

Yes the boy can do or arrange whatever he likes off-duty but I would suggest that he can not make those private arrangements while still on-duty

If the OP subsequently bumps into him in the street then fair enough - nothing payable.

However, I am open to other views.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NIrish Guy

Oh after reading newalans post I must confess I didn't register it was a massage place and not a go go which in that case in my view ABSOLUTELY wipes out any requirement for an off fee or any further form of payment to the premises fir work undertaken outside of office hours - never in a million years would I even dream of paying that- and I don't honestly think it would even be expected by the massage shop owner if truth be told !

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[deleted], Alternative opinions are necessary sometimes, especially when that mod is unnecessarily arguementative with new posters as well as wrong.

A takeaway fee is only necessary when the boy is actually taken away it's not an off fee it's a takeaway massage....the hint is in the name.......during his working hours only. No one said the boys shift was finished after servicing the customer(OP) things are being made up as 'they' go along. The boy is obviously available for private arrangements outwith his working hours. Takeaway fees are only applicable during his working hours. I mean just how difficult is that to take in? [deleted]

"Alternative opinions" are always welcome.
Please take any dispute regarding moderation to the relevant forum, which is "Posting Guidelines & Discussion" - thank you.

Clearly the OP said that he met the boy ON THE PREMISES of the massage place and during working hours that he did not like the room and asked for the boys number to meet him later at his hotel room. The boy should have been fired and the customer asked not to return. Look guys you know the opinion of bar owners which is the same as massage parlors and many other businesses. Don't go into these places and ask for their phone numbers if they are working to secretly meet them afterwards and cheat people who work hard for their working staff to keep you company when all you really whish to do is to cheat the place. Go to the beach! Walk along somewhere and find someone. Dont go into these places to meet people and sneak away with their phone numbers.
I guess if it were really correct and OK, why did you not ask for his phone number right in front of the boss if you thought for one second it was ok?

And Newalaan: When you write very nasty rude and insulting posts, I will not get involved and reverse decisions that your posts disappear. You can make your point without talking down to people and if you cant....

I think that the MODS that run this forum really need to start reading the threads before coming down on some of the well respected posters on the board...

The OP had sex with the boy in the massage shop and declined to return there a 2nd time. He subsequentally arranged to meet the boy in the boys own time at his hotel.
The masseur is not an indentured servant and des not belong to pimp outside of working hours

It is sad to see that the pattaya bitch forum is even more popular than sawatdee these days... so many posters have been run off of this forum.

The more things change, the more the stay the same . . .

Jumping all over the OP was completely uncalled for SG. Even if you had not misread his post, as a moderator there certainly would have been a nicer way of going about setting him straight. It is wrong to expect newbies to automatically know what conduct is acceptable and what is not in a world they have little experience with. Even the old timers who have chimed in are not in agreement on this issue.

The OPтАЩs intent in arranging a meeting the following day was not to avoid paying the house, he clearly stated it was the ambiance of the facilities that spurred him to arrange for an off-site meeting. ThatтАЩs reasonable and understandable. Not knowing that he should have made those arrangements through the massage shop is understandable too, several posters with more experience than the OP also believe that would not be required.

It does not matter that the establishment was a massage shop instead of a gogo bar (and I am not sure why anyone would think it would matter). The staff does not belong to the owner 24/7 in either type of establishment. But if an employee meets a customer at his place of work, any future business between them on-site or off-site falls under the parameters of that work place. All applicable fees should be paid directly to the business. The boys know this, it is not a gray area in their minds.

Nescool, I understand why you would feel the massage place should not have been involved as your planned meeting would be during the boyтАЩs free time; thatтАЩs a simple mistake to make. But consider if for example you took your computer into a shop for repairs, paid for the work that was done, and then because you were happy with the work of the geek who fixed your problem called him directly the next time you needed work done and had him come to your house during his free time to do that work. I think you would agree that this would be unfair to his employer. I know if his boss found out that is one geek who would be looking for a new job.

Had you met the guy for the first time on the street during his non-working hours it would have been a different situation. That you met him through his work is why your future business together is still part of his official job - even more so because you made your extra-curricular arrangement on the businessтАЩ premises. But donтАЩt fret it, yours was an honest mistake and now you know better.

SG, you were right in what you said, wrong in how you said it. At least if your intention was to help a newbie out. Going on the attack is never a good way of getting your message across. NescoolтАЩs response, understandably, was to want to argue with you rather than consider what you had to say as a valid bit of information. NewalaanтАЩs post that mysteriously disappeared was spot on: if you want new members to join in the discussion here jumping down their throat for honest errors in judgement is probably not the best way of going about that.

(BTW, Nescool, hitting Tawan can be a crap shoot. Some nights the guys are all duds, other nights the place is filled with buffed hotties. Your best bet is to visit on Friday and Saturday nights - thatтАЩs the boysтАЩ best night for business and all the stars come out to play.)

Now, when somebody makes their point in a reasoned way (as you have) it's worth paying attention to.

I have re-read my original response to the OP and I really don't think I "jumped all over him" - although maybe hitting him over the head with a hammer was unnecessary but I use the "smileys" in jest more than anything else.

I would urge you to re-read it - there is nothing abusive whatsoever, I do believe it was "sneaky" and that the massage shop owner was cheated although perhaps not deliberately, as I pointed out in post number 2 or 3.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rush, Yet Again

The staff does not belong to the owner 24/7 in either type of establishment. But if an employee meets a customer at his place of work, any future business between them on-site or off-site falls under the parameters of that work place. All applicable fees should be paid directly to the business. The boys know this, it is not a gray area in their minds.

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Is this not a contradiction?

They either belong to their employers 24/7 or they don't and have the freedom to do things outside of their work?

Colmx - I would simply say they don't have the freedom to make private arrangements whilst being paid to be on-duty at their employers place of work - in my opinion it's really quite simple. They can make all the private arrangements they want once they are off-duty and not being paid by the venue owner.

And whether the Client who is trying to make the private arrangement on the owners premises paid the same boy for a shag a month ago, a week ago, or 10 minutes ago is in my view immaterial.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scottish-guy

in my opinion it's really quite simple

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Yes and that is your opinion and only that... and the way you turned on the OP was wrong
I agree that it may be bad form to make an appointment for a meeting whilst on teh employers premises... but there is a difference between bad form and pure wrong

By the way i notice that one of my posts above has been modified since it was originally posted

Surely if a moderator is going to change the contents of someones post they should have the courtesy to let all other readers of the thread know that this particular post has been moderated?

After all the opinions being expressed by the poster are now not actually theirs but those of the moderator?

Edit: I see that my post has now been re-instated

Colmx I do believe you are wrong. Please read this line:

However I am not interested in any of them, the quality of guys are not as amazing as i have heard online. chatted with the boss for 5 mins, he told me to come tomorrow, he will have the right guy for me.

Now the OP in my opinion clearly states he did not like any of them and that the owner said for him that he would arrange for him to meet someone else the next day.
So no, he did not have sex with this boy, he only met him on the premises due to the owner making sure he would be there and the OP getting the phone number behind the owners back to meet him eslewhere. OK he did not like the room and I understand that but if you take someone out of a bar or out of a massage venue and you know what most massage venues are for BUT even for a massage, hey let's face it.... bys are taken off to go drinking with, being shown around town. getting a massage or even fucking. You pay an off fee or an intodeuction fee. It doesn't matter what exactly you take them away for.
As I said before the OP clearly said he had NOT had sex with the boy and that the boy was brought in for him to meet, not to take his phone number and meet him elsewhere.

As far as Nescool, well sorry if you feel that I or other staff hopped on you. This is a heated topic that has been discussed over and over and over and we get nowhere.
There are people who go into these and go go bars all the time that get very little in retirement checks or just don't wan't to pay, they get the boys phone numbers in these places for the purpose of not paying the fee and think it's all right.


I used to run one of these bars. Do you know how many boys get the falangs phones numbers after the first date and go off for a week or two and get THEIR FEE for 1 or 2 weeks then retun to the bar to where they are turned away and told to go work elsewhere?? Promised that the falang will send them regular money and don't work and then a month later need to return to the bar because the falang got tired of sending them money and told to go work elsewhere?? This is a very dangerous and difficult topic and would rather we never get inbto this or 10% garatuity as it only provolks bad feelings.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DaBoss

Colmx I do believe you are wrong. Please read this line:

However I am not interested in any of them, the quality of guys are not as amazing as i have heard online. chatted with the boss for 5 mins, he told me to come tomorrow, he will have the right guy for me.

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Neal please read the subsequent line from the OP "the next day, there really is a quite lean muscle guy. service is good. he is polite. sex is great."

So he did have a massage the next day on the premises with the guy!

I know as an ex-bar owner i will never win the argument about losing out on off fees etc with you!! :violent1: :violent1:

Stop hitting DaBoss on the head with a hammer - that's "jumping all over him" don't you know :evil4:

I though this was Daboss? :naka:

You're being very generous to him :sign5:

Colmx, yes I saw that line but I am not sure that that was the boy the boss brought in for him and yes as I have admitted before on this thread we all have very different opinions on this and tipping and they are very dangerous topics for this and other forums so I prefer not seeing them as well everyone gets hot so we should agree to disagree, but there is no reason for OTHERS to get abussive.

Again I need to ask, if those that believe it to be fair, PLEASE ask for the boy's telephone numbers in front of the mamasan or the owner and if there is no problem, you get the number. Bing, bago end of subject. If you have the need to sneak around to get the number, why would anyone need to tell you what they thought of doing it? :tongue3:

And it seems to be misconduct between the customer and the boy on premises.
Sure the boy is just as guilty but the customer knew or should have known it was wrong also.


But after the sex he made his private arrangement - which is what I picked him up on. I don't see that it makes any difference - the boy was still on-duty and they were both still on the premises, so its misbehaviour in my view

Can we all agree to disagree and lock this thread and go on? As I mentioned before, this and 10% tip threads are very dangerous because both sides really take it to heart and fight passionately.

If anyone wishes to post anything extra that will add to this thread that HAS NOT already been hashed out, please pm me and I will be happy to open the thread for you views to be posted but at this point, we just seem to be saying the same thing over and over as well does other threads on this exact same subject do.

This came from ChristianPFC and before I post it may I ask if others want this thread reopened? Can we continue to discuss it as adults and stop all the name calling and battering of each other? Personally believe it or not I will say it and have said it before, I don't like to lock, don't like to edit, I would just like to READ. I have tried to teach my mods what my policy is and ask them to do the same. I don't like to limit threads, don't like to say with a fist that threads are automatically closed at 10 pages unless they suit me and I want to continue pushing my view and I don't like to answer every thread with my views and also don't throw people off the board unless they are just trying to fight everyone or disagree with me. Sure hot disagreements are welcome as all other posts but we are all adults and can control our anger. Can't we?
If others want the thread reopened just PM me saying "Yes I want the thread reopened", but please no beating everyone up for their differing views. :crybaby:

Re: My Experiences in HERO and Tawan Aug 2012

Sent: Wed 14 Nov, 2012 7:48 pm
From: christianpfc
To: DaBoss

I have something to add which I would like you to publish:

This is a grey area (making arrangements on the premises to meet during non-working hours), but I see nothing wrong with it and do so after doing the standard procedure one time (drink for me, drink for boy, off fee, tip). After that, I prefer to short-cut (financially and time-wise).

The boys work long hours (for massage typically 10 hours per day, 6 days per week), add travel time and sleep there is not much time left. I once lusted after a doorman at a girl bar and after enquiring about his daily routine I came to the conclusion that there is almost no time left to meet me. So when you (OP) ask him (Hero Massag boy) to meet you out of work, this encroaches his spare time. To save face he agreed to meet you, but then probably had something better to do (meet friends, sleep, watch TV, play internet ...) than meeting you for work.

In my experience, when a Thai is intrested in me (because we get along well and I take them to interesting places, beside the money I pay) he is on time (or the delays are reasonable). I arrange my holiday plans so I can spend time with Thai friends (this includes (ex)bar/massage boys) on their day off.

I don't think it's a good move to lock this thread. Of course, the subject has been discussed before, but threads like this bring life into the forum.

Re: My Experiences in HERO and Tawan Aug 2012

Sent: Thu 15 Nov, 2012 7:42 pm
From: peeseua
To: DaBoss

Hi Boss, I can understand your perspective as a bar owner. We get the same mentality in Malaysia with the senior citizens who smuggle or brazenly bring coffee bags, tea bags and snacks into bars, restaurants, etc. Some of them even wrote a letter of complaint to a Minister of all things when a local restaurant threatened to charge them RM3 for a cup of hot water because that was what some of them ordered when they didn't also sneak a bottle or two mineral water in with them.

People who think it's perfectly fair to do the dirty on a bar or restaurant or hotel owner would never think that they were being dishonest. Their favourite excuse is alway, "Well, they can afford it so why should I have to pay extra?"

I don't have a problem with your adding my pm to the thread as a post. I wouldn't be worried about being called a prick, prissy or holier-than-thou. I've been called worse.