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History of Soi Twilight
With the lack of current activity in the nightlife scene and plenty of forum members locked-out of Thailand, perhaps this would be a good time to put together a history of the late Soi Twilight. There are occasional posts about Soi Twilight on this and other fora, but I have yet to come across a proper chronological history of it on any of them. Given the role that it played in the development of the gay scene in Bangkok, long before Pattaya took-off, a proper history of that Soi is surely in order. It would be fab if those of you who have direct knowledge and experience of the earlier history of Soi Twilight would actually contribute to this thread. A proper history of Soi Twilight really should reside somewhere on the net and this is as good a place as any.
The closest thing to a chronological history of Soi Twilight is from the stub history and monthly updates of Bangkok's nightlife scene on Bangkokeyes, which has been chronicling Bangkok's nightlife scene since the 90s. However, Bangkokeyes is mostly focused on the straight nightlife and while they hope to add a history of Soi Twilight to their site (alongside the existing histories of all the other straight nightlife areas of Bangkok), their information on the history of the Soi is still somewhat patchy. In any event, one would think that the best place for a comprehensive history of Soi Twilight would be this forum.
The skeleton of a chronology, as I understand it, would be:
1966 - The original Twilight bar opens on New Street
Beginning of the 70s - Twilight moves to Soi Pratuchai
Somewhere in the 90s Banana Bar opens
2005 - Soi Twilight begins to see a rapid influx of new bars
2010 - 2014 - Soi Twilight reaches its peak, with an average of 19 establishments in operation
2019 - The curtain falls on Soi Twilight
I will also post an excerpt from a recent email chat between John Morley of Bangkokeye and myself here, in which he elaborates on the history of Soi Twilight.
Our first adventure into Soi Twilight was at the invitation of author Jerry Hopkins, now deceased, who, like yourself, played in both houses. At that time he recommended we include Soi Twilight in our monthly updates on BKK Eyes. He recommended we call the soi, "Soi Hard-On", but as the gays and taxi drivers (and a surprising number of bar girls) already knew it as Soi Twilight, we ran with 'Soi Twilight'. However at that time, there were too few Nitespots on the soi (it had not reached "Critical Mass"), so we adopted a "wait-and-see" position. We revisited some 6+ months later to find it had in fact reached the 'tipping-point' - the magical 'critical mass'.
As a result, our history (genesis) of Soi Twilight is very sketchy. Our only meaningful interview with anyone on the Soi (who had been there for any considerable time) was with the owner of Banana (became New Banana, later relocated to Soi Katoey, Silom Soi 4 on the closure of Soi Twilight). Banana was just across Soi Twilight from the then-Hot Male. He recalled that the original Twilight bar had been there at least 20 to 30 years, and perhaps since as early as 1966, but couldn't give an exact date. We also asked Bobby of Bobby's Arms, now deceased, if he knew how long Twilight bar had been there. (Bobby had a more-than-passing knowledge of the gay community). He recalled that it had relocated there from New Road many years ago, some time in the early 1970's, but likewise could not recall an exact time (-note: this is unsubstantiated as of this date, so we have not included this in any 'historical' writings on Soi Twilight ). The only thing clear is there is no clarity.
For a long time, Soi Pratuchai remained without any Nitespots other than the Twilight , which was at the Surawong entrance. We, regrettably, have had no access to any accounts of the build-up prior to our visit there towards the end of 2005. Also, there is unsubstantiated chatter that a number of gay venues transferred to Soi Twilight from Surawong Soi Than Tawan during the 2005-2010 timeframe. The original Twilight bar became the New Twilight at some point in time not known to us, and eventually went out of business, being picked up by Hot Male at that juncture ( Hot Male remaining at that location until they relocated to Patpong 2 on closure of Soi Twilight).
Soi Twilight (Pratuchai) was a privately owned soi, which allowed it to become a 'Walking Street' at night - keeping out vehicular traffic. At its 4-year peak, (December 2010 - November 2014) Soi Twilight maintained on average 19 Nitespot venues.
Regrettably at this point in time, our only chance of improving / expanding on the history of Soi Twilight would be from readers' submissions of old photos and/ or accounts.
Some of the obvious questions in trying to put together a proper history of the Soi would be whether the early clubs that operated on Soi Twilight / Soi Pratuchai were new clubs or whether they had been operating elsewhere before that?
Also, what and where were the bars located prior to the move to Soil Twilight? There were and are, of course, the bars on Soi Tantawan; but, at least over the last 15 years or so, they are of a very different sort than the Soi Twilight bars.
Finally, what happened to the original Twilight Bar? Did it simply shut-down, with Hot Male simply taking-over the premises or did Hot Male also take-over some of the talent / management from Twilight, so that it can claim to be an affinity with the original Twilight?
If anyone has any direct information to add, it would be fantastic if you could, Note though, I am hoping that we get real information on this thread, not just reams of opinion... =)
Cheers,
Jay
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Re: History of Soi Twilight
Is it just the history of Soi Twilight bars that is of interest? The busiest street for Gay bars was in Soi Four Silom before Soi Twilight become known for more than the Twilight Bar.
I'm sure that we have touched on this topic before, probably more than once, and you will find that there is an excellent search facility here. So that is worth a try too. I'd put in "History", and it won't all be about the Wars of the Roses!
EDIT. I now see that even your own post has at the bottom "Similar Threads" which includes some of this information.
https://sawatdeenetwork.com/v4/showt...ow-Gay-History
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Re: History of Soi Twilight
This archive has a pretty impressive collection of scanned Thai gay magazines from the 80s, 90s and 00s
http://thairainbowarchive.anu.edu.au/catalogue.htm
The "Thai Guys" magazines only go back to 1999, but have good maps (although it should be noted that this company was well known for leaving out bars that didn't pay to be in their listings, or which they didn't like) http://thairainbowarchive.anu.edu.au...s/contents.htm
As for Soi Twilights peak, I would assume that was 2001-2002 before Purachai's "social order campaign" started, everything went downhill after that
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Re: History of Soi Twilight
Below I post an expanded chronological history of Soi Twilight, from its origins in the early 1970s to its demise in 2019. This is hardly the last word on the subject, but should serve as a reasonable core to which members can add their own recollections of the Soi and its bars. As a new account, I can't post the pictures and maps to go with the narrative, but perhaps an eager veteran can chip-in.
The Origins of Soi Twilight
The origins of the phenomenon that became Soi Twilight go back far indeed. The original Twilight bar was founded on New Road in the Surawong area, possibly as early as 1966. By the beginning of the 1970s, however, it had moved to a small privately-owned street almost directly across Surawong Road from Patpong 2 called Soi Pratuchai. The Twilight Bar occupied the first shophouse on the left as one entered the soi from Surawong Road, operating on the first floor (which Americans would call the second floor). Early-on in its time on Soi Pratuchai was renamed New Twilight Bar. This earliest part of the Twilight Bar’s history was documented by John Morley at Bangkokeyes / Midnite Eyes magazine when he interviewed the owner of the original Banana bar, across from the original Twilight, in 2006.
As the seminal bar that gave rise, and its name, to Soi Twilight, a description of the original Twilight Bar is in order. The best description of it was given by forum member Fountainhall in a post on this site on 1st July 2014. I, respectfully, quote his, abbreviated, description:
It was dark inside, had a long bar at one end behind which was a small stage on which 4 boys would rotate, all standing without any attempt to dance. Twilight was run by two older ladyboys and usually had lots more working boys than Apollo. Around 10:00pm, the mamasans would bark orders whereupon the boys briefs came off. After four had been on stage and replaced by another four, the original four would come through the audience and stand around a small pillar. Not sure if touching was permitted, but back then it happened a lot. Chairs would be put in the centre of the space as warranted by demand. Round two sides were padded benches where you could be more intimate with some of the guys in relative darkness.
A visit to the toilet would usually result in one or two guys coming in to show their wares. Upstairs were at least a couple of rickety dirty rooms and a cold shower. Most nights there’d be a show on stage, with a pair of the coupled boys clambering on to the bar. If you bought a drink for a boy, touching and feeling seemed to be the norm. Most weekdays there seemed to be not more than 20 punters in the bar. At week-ends, though, it would be absolutely packed, almost exclusively with Thais.
Alone on the Edge of the World
Soi Pratuchai – the Street of the Gate of Victory – hardly seemed destined to become the centre of Bangkok’s boy bar universe at this point, and its glory days were still several decades away in the future. Indeed, for about two decades, Twilight remained the only gay bar on Soi Pratuchai. The centre of action was elsewhere. By the early 1980s Silom Soi 4 had emerged as the centre of Bangkok’s gay bar scene, although that street had already hosted gay bars and pubs since the 1960s. Sleazier options were to be found on the nearby Soi Tantawan. [Of the 80s sleaze bars on Soi Tantawan, four still remain as of 2020: Tawan, Nature Boys, Super A and Golden Cock, of which only Golden Cock has remained in the same location since the beginning.] Soi Pratuchai remained a backwater throughout this period, with Twilight still the only gay bar on the soi even at the beginning of the 90s. [The Spartacus Guide, 1991].
Things Pick-Up
Over the 1990s, however, what would later be known as Soi Twilight began to take visible shape as a number of new gay venues opened-up on Soi Pratuchai. Their number rose steadily through the 90s, so that as the millennium drew to a close, there were about 7 or 8 gay venues operating on the soi by the end of 1999. Apart from the original Twilight Bar, these included Dicks’s Café, Sprite Boys, Blue Star and The Boys Bangkok. The latter two were owned by the BBB Group, which also owned Dream Boys on the other side of Surawong Road. Also worth noting is that the bars that operated on Soi Twilight in the 90s were not transplants from other areas; rather, they were new bars and marked an expansion of the A Go-Go scene in Bangkok. The soi had now emerged as a distinct gay nightlife area in its own right, but had not yet achieved the iconic status that was soon to come.
In addition to the gradual build-up of bars on Soi Pratuchai itself, several other bars in the immediate vicinity also contributed to Soi Twilight becoming the epicentre of the boy bar universe, forming part of the local eco-system. Screwboys was located on the Suriwong end of Patpong 2, where it still remains today. On Soi Thaniya 2, beside the Suriwong Hotel, were located two of the boy bars that have remained at the top of the game for the last three decades – Jupiter and Dream Boy. Dream Boy had previously been known as Dream Boys Barbeiry, being a continuation of the older Barbeiry boy bar. Barbeiry itself had been one of the earliest gay A Go-Go bars in Bangkok, operating on Soi Thanuya 2 since the early 1980s and offering a classier experience than the sleaze that Twilight traded in. Barbeiry was also distinguished by having an all-Thai line-up, which Dream Boy adopted as official policy. Similarly, the black light and body paint dance shows that it offered back in the 80s also continue to form part of Dream Boy’s shows today.
A massive change in the bar scene in Bangkok – both straight and gay – took place at the start of the millennium as the Thaksin government launched a crackdown on the overt sleaze that had become an entrenched part of Bangkok’s A Go-Go scene. Explicit fuck-shows disappeared from both the boy bars and the girlie bars for a while, and bars that were known to offer under-aged boys or girls were shut-down. The crackdown in this period may have hurt Soi Twilight in the short-term, but probably helped it over the longer-term. The forcible shut-down of many of the sleaze bars pushed patrons towards the surviving bars on Soi Pratuchai. The more sanitised bars also appealed to a wider base of clients. Alongside that, Bangkok’s gay nightlife scene also benefited from the growth of the World Wide Web, which made it easier for travellers to find information on the gay nightlife venues, which were now much less scary places for the first-time visitor. Added to that was the rise of low-cost air travel in the region, pioneered by the much-loathed and loved Air Asia. Additionally, Soi Pratuchai was a private soi, which enabled its owners to close it to traffic at night, allowing This confluence of elements set the stage for the next phase of Soi Twilight’s development.
The number of bars on Soi Pratuchai remained fairly stable for the next several years, even as the number of patrons steadily increased and the soi itself increasingly began to be referred to as Soi Twilight. As late as 2003, though, gay magazines referred to “Soi Twilight” in inverted commas. The name was already in-use amongst those in the know, but it was now about to break into common usage. Ironically, though, the Twilight Bar did not get to long enjoy its status as the namesake of the new entertainment district...
Soi Twilight Takes-Off
In late 2004, the original Twilight bar was taken-over by new management and was rebranded as Hot Male. Hot Male continued to operate from the same location and maintained both the phone numbers for the old Twilight (02-236-1944 and 02-237-837), which was indicative of the continuity. Hot Male, which continues to operate as of 2020, can claim to be a lineal descendant of the original Twilight.
At the same time, Dream Boys moved from Soi Thaniya 2 to Soi Twiight in late 2004, taking-over the premises of Blue Star, thus beginning its run as the king of Soi Twilight. Throughout its time on Soi Twilight, Dream Boys had both the largest number of boys and drew in the largest number of customers. The number and quality of the boys in its stable was all the more impressive given its strict Only Thai Boys policy. Together, these two events - Hot Male operating under a re-invigorated management and BBB having consolidated much of its operations under the hugely-popular Dream Boys provided a shot in the arm for the growth of Soi Twilight. Note. that as Dream Boy replaced Blue Star and that Hot Male took-over Twilight, neither of them actually added to the number of bars on the soi.
2006 was the seminal year in which Soi Twilight took-off, with the number of establishments on the soi almost doubling in the first six months of the year. By June 2006, the following establishments were operating on Soi Twilight:
As you entered from Surawong Road, on the left-hand side of the soi were Hot Male, Bar Lover, The Boys, Dream Boys and Fresh Boys. On the right-hand side were Banana, X-Boys, X-Man, Fresh Beach Boys, Bunny Massage (Bonny Massage), Dicks Café and Future Boys. Further down Soi Twilight, towards the Rama IV entrance were Classic Boys, Balls Sports Bar and Five Star. Five Star alone among the entertainment venues on the soi was not gay-oriented. How it managed to survive for all those years one gayest street in Bangkok until Soi Twilight itself came to an end must remain something of a mystery.
The number of establishments on Soi Twilight continued to rise in the years after that, hitting a peak in the four years from 2010 to 2014, when there were an average of 19 night-spot venues on the soi, including two massage parlours and several beer bars, apart from the A Go Go bars themselves. By this point, Soi Twilight’s status as the centre of the for-pay gay scene in Bangkok as firmly fixed with just about any internet search pointing the hungry and the curious alike in the direction of Soi Twilight. What is easy to miss though is that the boy bars were not exclusively gay. Women patronised the bars as well, with some of them having a regular female clientele. The Boys Bangkok, in particular, was popular with Asian women and that women customers have become an increasingly important part of the boy bar scene.
The composition of the Soi also continued to evolve. While stalwarts like Hot Male and Dream Boy remained where they were, other clubs saw changes of name or location and wholly-new venues continued to open. BY the end of 2016, for example, the old Banana had become New Banana, Fresh Beach Boys had become Fresh Boys, Classic Boys had become New Classic Boys (in exactly the same old place)
The Curtain Falls
By 2018, however, rumours were circulating that Soi Twilight was going to be re-developed and that the bars would have to relocate. The rumours proved true when the ThaiBev Group, brewers of Chang Beer, acquired the soi as part of the massive property development that they are carrying-out on Rama IV Road. By the first quarter of 2019, the curtain had fallen on Soi Twilight and the majority of bars moved across Surawong Road and into Patpong, long the home of venerable institutions like Super Pussy and the fabulously-named BadaBing. The move has not gone down well with the majority of Patpong’s old-timers who view the area as hallowed ground, sanctified by decades of ping-pong shows. Nonetheless, the gay ghetto at the head of Patpong 2 has got-off to a strong start.
Epilogue, not Epitaph
Hot Male, the descendant of the original Twilight, has continued to thrive in its new location on Patpong 2. Counting its antecedents from 1966, it has now been operating for up to 54 years. The idiotically-named Freshboys has also made the move to Patpong 2. Classic Boys has vanished as a stand-alone bar, but its human stock is now to be found in two locations. The new Lucky Boys is a combination of Soi Twilight refugees X-Boys and]Classic Boys.
The original Banana that sat at the entrance of Soi Twilight for decades now sits on Soi 4 as “Banana on 4”. Above it is the Banana Bar, which includes staff from the old Freshboys and Classic Boys. Neither of these is to be mistaken for the moronically-named Sweet Banana on Patpong 1.
Screwboys continues to occupy the same position on Patpong 2 that it has for years. Nonetheless, it deserves mention as a Soi Twilight bar, not just because it spent a brief period on Soi Twilight before returning to Patpong 2 long before the demise of Soi Twilight, but because its close proximity to Soi Twilight always meant that it formed part of the Soi Twilight eco-system, unlike the more distant and quite distinct bars on Soi Tantawan.
Dream Boy, the last vestige of the once-virile BBB empire sits comfortably on Patpong 2. Its decades-old policy of Only Thai Boys, thankfully, remains in operation. For those who might ask what difference that makes, the only reasonable answer must be that you haven’t spent enough time with Thai boys. Thai boys, after all, are the reason that this site and many others came into being in the first place. They are, quite simply, a cut above the moneyboys from neighbouring countries who have colonised the bar scene.
Finally, a quick note on Jupiter, which has, in one form or another, been in operation since the late 1980s. While it has never been on Soi Twilight and, in many ways, has held itself aloof from the Soi Twilight crowd, it nonetheless contributed to the growth of Soi Twilight. Its long presence on Soi Thaniya 2 brought customers to an area that was not, at that time, the centre of the gay go-go world. While it has often received bad press on this forum, Jupiter has been on top of the game for decades. It early-on recognised the need to court Asian patrons and to attract women to make-up for the decline in its traditional customers. What is clear is that the bars that have moved from the comfort of Soi Twilight into the big, bad word of Patpong will have to move in that direction as well, if they are going to continue to thrive. The owners of Hot Male have already recognised this by setting-up the highly-successful Moonlight bar, which occupies the site on Soi Thaniya 2 that Jupiter occupied from the 1990s until its move to Soi 4 in 2017, focusing on Asian and female clients.
Those of us who were lucky enough to play in Soi Twilight at its peak will probably look at its passing with regret, but Bangkok’s bar scene has always been in a state of flux. Soi Twilight itself was, in fact, a relative newcomer to the boy bar scene. The last to arrive, it has also been the first to go, taking with it the promise of decades more of pleasure on that little soi. Night has now fallen on Soi Twilight, but its place as brilliant, if brief, neon flash in the annals of Bangkok’s nightlife is assured.
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Re: History of Soi Twilight
My own posts reveal an interest in the history of Thailand's commercial sex scene and so I'm grateful to anyone who takes the time and trouble to research and provide such an interesting account, particularly when it is so well- written.
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Re: History of Soi Twilight
Thank you for this thorough and detailed report, which is all accurate, as far as I am aware, as far as memory allows . It should be stored safely somewhere.
On a minor note, for such a factual report gathered from various sources, a couple of the strongly held personal opinions did seem a little out of place!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JayToff
moronically-named Sweet Banana on Patpong 1.
I thought that was a rather good name, given amongst all the varieties there is indeed a sweet banana. I was once offered such a thing by a boatman in Luxor!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JayToff
fabulously-named BadaBing.
The fabulousness of this name escapes me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JayToff
the much-loathed and loved Air Asia
Were feelings really so strongly held about Air Asia?
As I say just minor comments that jarred while reading your otherwise excellent history.
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Re: History of Soi Twilight
I only first visited Bangkok / Soi Twilight in 2015, however I also find the history of the scene very interesting (being in my early 30's on that first visit meant I wasn't fortunate enough to experience the 'old scene'). I still haven't visited the new scene in Patpong, as most of my subsequent visits have been straight to Pattaya / Cambodia / other SEA countries. But the new Twilight is definitely on my list once travel is finally practical again!!
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Re: History of Soi Twilight
The "new" Twilight has (or had until recently) some of the same bars that the old one had. Unfortunately, they were not situated in a gay soi and it was this that made Twilight unique in Bangkok. Like Boyztown until recently, the pleasure were not restricted to the go go bars- P and I never visited any- but the bars like Dicks and Banana in Twilight and Panorama and Oscars in Boyztown where we could sit , have a drink and watch the world go by.
The loss of gay areas over the past decade is not restricted to Thailand; as we gain more acceptance across the world, the need for such areas declines.
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Re: History of Soi Twilight
Thanks Jay for the putting together some history of Soi Twilight. Much appreciated.
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Re: History of Soi Twilight
guess I was lucky enough to have caught BKK at its best and worse...been there when just about every gogo bar om soi twilight had a full on fuck show twice an evening...sometimes even a 3rd...and the shows were quite something..even had a guy who could shoot darts out of his butt hole..truly amazing...even made me stand on the stage holding a balloon between my knees...dart would shoot out of his butt and would pop it...then the depression when the new government banned all such shows and we had to tolerate mock fuck shows held under mosquito netting...
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Re: History of Soi Twilight
Some notes on the prologue to the rise of Soi Twilight.
The question of what the oldest gay bar in Thailand was has been raised several times on the fora. We know that the original Twilight Bar was founded as early as 1966, but several members have also mentioned an even older bar, the Sea Hag.
In every post, however, the Sea Hag appears as a sort of ghost, with no clear dates on when it opened and when it shut, and certainly nothing clear about its history. Even the earliest, members who arrived in Bangkok mention that it had already closed by the time they arrived in Thailand.
The Sea Hag had actually been founded as a sailors’ bar in the 1950s. It might have been gay-friendly, but it did not become a full-on gay bar until July 4th 1967. The bar shut-down in 1969 but would give rise to the legendary Rome on Soi 4.
The dates for the Sea Hag can be established from two old posts. The critical one appeared on ThaiVisa back on December 3rd 2004 by the owner of the Sea Hag, who only ever made two posts, explaining the lineage of the Sea Hag and then never posted again. I quote the relevant portions of his posts.
Quote:
The first gay bar in Thailand was the Sea Hag. It was an old seamans bar from the '50s converted to a gay bar and opened on July 4, 1967. Reason I know is that I opened it together with my then BF. Prior to that, there was Club 99 on Silom opposite where Narai Hotel now is and several other 'mixed' bars on Oriental ave. and a bit later the Balcony on Charoen Krung (New Road) which was also mixed.
I left Thailand for Japan in '69 and my then BF went on to open Siamese on the newly-built Silom Soi 4 (71 or 72). Siamese later expanded and became the Rome club of past international fame.
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Just another add-in to the information previously provided: The oldest continuing gay bar presently in existence is Twilight, now in the bar row off Suriwongse. It used to be where Dreamboy is -- or next door -- can't remember which.
His reference to “where Dreamboy is” would refer to Soi Thaniya 2, rather than to Soi Pratuchai.
Another post that is relevant appeared on Stickman back in 2003. It was the reminiscences of a G.I. about his time hitting the girlie bars in Patpong with his mates in 1967. He mentions ending-up in a gay bar called the Sea Hag by mistake, finishing their drinks and then leaving. I quote:
Quote:
Bangkok was a little expensive compared to Ubon but it had a whole lot more to offer too. The girls were the prettiest and most all could speak English. We did the bars and the bath houses and at one point even stumbled into a gay bar called "The Old Sea Hag". It was by accident but we had our beer and slipped out without any incidents. We had a good laugh over it later.
As to which bar really was the first gay bar, if the Sea Hag is only counted as a gay bar from July 4th 1967, then Twilight would be the older, original boy bar. But, of course, the Sea Hag had already been there since the 1950s in its earlier incarnation, so the argument could be made for its claim to that title. That, however, brings us on to the shadowy origins of Twilight itself. For that, a recent article in Nikkei about Patpong mentions that the katoey who set-up Twilight in 1966 had previously been running a male brothel. It seems reasonable that some of the boys in the original Twilight line-up would have been drawn from said brothel. I quote the Nikkei article
Quote:
Although the entertainment was geared toward straight men in search of hostess bars, massage parlors and go-go clubs, Patpong also challenged taboos about homosexuality. Bangkok's first gay bar, Sea Hag, opened there in the late 1950s, and in 1966 the Twilight Bar was launched by a drag queen who had earlier opened a male brothel.
What is particularly interesting is how each of these two contenders for the title of oldest gay bar gave birth to one of the major gay sois in Bangkok. Twilight’s was the catalyst for Soi Twilight, and the current Twilight Zone on Patpong 2. The Sea Hag through its indirect descendants, Siamese and Rome, helped bring Soi 4 to prominence, although its role is less direct.
Take your pick as to who deserves the title of the oldest gay bar in Thailand. Both the contenders have a decent claim. Let those with deeper knowledge chip-in.
Note: The Sea Hag gay restaurant in Patong, Phuket, does not appear to be a lineal descendant of the original Sea Hag, despite such claims on some fora.
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Re: History of Soi Twilight
Is there any connection between the Sea Hag Bar and the old-established restaurant of the same name in Patong?
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Re: History of Soi Twilight
Hi Brad,
I am almost certain that you could have written a much better history of Soi Twilight than the stub that I did, given that you were actually there before almost anyone else was. With regard to your earlier question, "Is it just the history of Soi Twilight bars that is of interest? The busiest street for Gay bars was in Soi Four Silom before Soi Twilight become known for more than the Twilight Bar", the answer is that facts and stories about the early bar scene are certainly welcome, given that all that has come before played its part in bringing us to where we are now, i.e. post-Soi Twilight and now into the Twilight Zone.
I would particularly welcome tales of your first visit to the Twilight Bar or the other early bars and of the bars that went into the making of Soi Twilight. That picture of your birthday at Lonely Boy, really is a glimpse into an era long before most of us showed-up. Fab if you can share more. Quite a few members have shared tales of the past, including yourself, but they have always appeared as vignettes. The new or casual reader would never quite have known how those bars relate to the way things developed. What was lacking was a framework in which to view the changes in the bar scene. That was the purpose of my trying to put together a chronological history. Obviously, however, Soi Twilight was only one small part of that and you and the handful of genuine veterans of that era are much better-placed to do that.
On BadaBing, I shall just say, as someone who enjoyed playing on both sides of Suriwong, BadaBing is fabulous from start to finish =) Not only can the girls there actually dance, but they actually smile. There are lessons that the managers of the boy bars could learn from a visit to that place.
On AirAsia, it is the airline that everyone loves to hate. It was lauded for bring prices down, but hated for just about everything else. There are enough "I hate Air Asia" pages on the net for me not to recount the issues here; there is even one on TripAdvisor.
On "Sweet Banana", that name isn't just scraping the bottom of the barrel, it's gone right through it...
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Re: History of Soi Twilight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JayToff
On "Sweet Banana", that name isn't just scraping the bottom of the barrel, it's gone right through it...
As opposed to say the subtle Golden Cock?!! I'm not sure if it was there or somewhere similar that the guys used to all have 3D underwear representing the head of an elephant, and the cocks were supposed to go into the representation of the elephant trunks. It might have seemed a good idea but the end result, as the elephant trunks on the trunks were quite large in dimension and length was to diminish the outline of the cocks making them seem shrivelled and unattractive. Like deflating balloons.
I don't think that I've explained that very well, but hopefully I have given a sense of it.
I will attach some links below to some entertaining threads that I found about the early days of gay Bangkok and first experiences in Thailand. I'm sure that my memory was better at the time of my posts in these threads than it is now! If there are any subsequent gaps I expect someone here, or possibly me, will be able to step forward to help.
Memories were stimulated recently when I found an old letter addressed to me at my favourite Poste Restante address.
C/o The Lonely Boy Bar, 102 Silom Road, Bangrak, Bangkok. The letter was dated 2/11/73! As you noted I had a birthday party there around that time.
https://sawatdeenetwork.com/v4/showt...ghlight=apollo
https://sawatdeenetwork.com/v4/showt...ghlight=apollo
https://sawatdeenetwork.com/v4/showt...ghlight=apollo
https://sawatdeenetwork.com/v4/showt...ghlight=apollo
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Re: History of Soi Twilight
No one has listed my two favorite Go Go Bars. Both off Silom Soi 6 and Soi Thantawan.
Super Lex and Tomahawk...
My first visit to Thailand was in 2003. And I meet a friend from Germany there. He was my Guide and my Shill! HAHAHA
We enjoyed Super Lex and took off two guys from there. One was the STR8 Top and the other his willing Bottom!!
And they had no problem making a Video for us...
At Tomahawk I meet my first Thai Love!! It is a long story. He is now probably 40yo and last worked at Dream Boys in Soi Twilight.
He has two handsome Sons, both STR8.
AHHHH so many memories...
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Re: History of Soi Twilight
I found a List from the "dreaded ned's" Web Site from 2003 that I saved to my PC.
It lists many many Saunas, Massage, Go Go and Disco places in Bangkok.
But it is more than 30 pages long!!! So I will not post it here.
You might try a Google Search.
Take care!!
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Re: History of Soi Twilight
A Description of the Bars of Soi Twilight and the Terrible Things that Happened Therein, Along with A Brief Chronology of its Demise
The stub history of Soi Twilight posted above was necessarily constrained by the 15,000 character limit, so that while the reader is left with a decent chronology of the evolution of the soi, readers who did not personally experience Soi Twilgiht may also be left wondering about what distinguished one bar from another, how the scene on Soi Twilight evolved over time and how it all relates to the current, reconstituted, bar scene in the Twilight Zone in Patpong. While the skeleton of a decent history of Soi Twilight is to be found in the previous posts; this post aims to put some flesh onto the bones.
Rather than writing a follow-up post on the different bars purely from memory, I shall instead guide the reader to a contemporary account by that most astute and amusing of bar scene chroniclers, the late and much-missed Rush.
The additional benefit of doing that, of course, is to introduce the unfamiliar to Bangkokbois which, even five years after the final post, remains the gold standard for insight into the world of the Bangkok bar scene. For while Soi Twilight is no more, the majority of the old bars have simply reconstituted themselves across the road. Apart from that, it’s just a bloody funny read…
For a description of the bars on Soi Twilight in 2011, the year it attained its peak, along with some good pictures of the bars, see:
https://bangkokbois.sawatdeenetwork....gay-gogo-bars/
For a raunchier description of what actually happened in those different bars, see:
https://bangkokbois.sawatdeenetwork....-and-the-ugly/
Each of those links is a five-minute read.
Rush died in 2015 and so never chronicled the end of Soi Twilight, nor was it obvious then that 2015 marked the year in which the decline of Soi Twilight began as rumours started to circulate that that the soi was going to be redeveloped, giving bar owners little incentive to make new investments.
The years 2011 to 2014 marked the peak of Soi Twilight in terms of the number of venues. Then, in February 2015, The Zeus, which occupied the site of what had previously been Future Boys and then Ocean Boys, closed for good and no new bar opened in its place. This was followed by the closure of Mario Massage in mid-2015, with, yet again, no replacement venue taking-over the space. If things then seemed to stabilise, this was only a prelude to the flood.
In late 2017, Chai Massage closed on Soi Twilight, with nothing taking its place. In April 2018, Fresh Boys jumped across to Patpong 2 and then the long-running Dick’s Café closed in mid-2018, announcing that they were leaving Soi Twilight for Pattaya’s Jomtien Complex. The impending demise of Soi Twilight was now visible to everyone, despite the heroic insistence that it was “business as usual” by the remaining bars.
The upstairs X-Size A Go-Go bar closed in September 2018, followed by the closure of its downstairs pool bar at the beginning of 2019. The nameless pool bar with its stock of street urchins, located after Dream Boy, closed at about the same time and the Rama IV end of Soi Twilight began to be walled-off with sheet metal. With the not-quite iron curtain now falling, the stage was set for the final exodus.
In April 2019, the remaining venues left Soi Twilight. These included the Soi Twilight stalwarts Dream Boy, Banana, Bangkok Massage and Hot Male. Fittingly, Hot Male was the last bar to leave Soi Twilight. As the original Twilight Bar had lit the spark that led to the rise of Soi Twilight almost 50 years before, it was only right that its reincarnation, Hot Male, should have been the one to finally switch-off the lights on that little soi of neon-lit fantasies.
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Re: History of Soi Twilight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JayToff
Then, in February 2015, The Zeus, which occupied the site of what had previously been Future Boys and then Ocean Boys, closed for good and no new bar opened in its place.
They closed in December 2014. I went there on 28dec2014 (with vinapu, prolific poster on gayguides) and it was not in business any more. Door was open, lights on but nobody in, so I took pictures of inside and the Zeus statue outside.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JayToff
This was followed by the closure of Mario Massage in mid-2015, with, yet again, no replacement venue taking-over the space.
I remember Mario Massage. After Mario Massage there was a snooker hall and reception area for a massage related to X-Size on upper level. Here my one visit to this place:
https://christianpfc.blogspot.com/20...-thailand.html
Quote:
Wed 13jun2018 X-Size massage
The cute boy Lee the Analphabet (whom I first met years ago in Pradipat Karaoke, then he worked in X-Size on stage, then in Fresh boys as waiter) now works in X-Size massage, which is my chance to get him after years of fruitless chat (he cannot read or write Thai or English)!
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Re: History of Soi Twilight
Hi Christian,
Additions and corrections to anything posted are certainly welcome, particularly since even the shortest pencil is longer than the best memory.
For purposes of tracking the decline of Soi Twilight, however, February 2015 would probably be the correct date for the demise of Zeus. Shows at Zeus stopped at some point shortly before they began internal renovations in January 2015 ( Your visit on December 28th 2014 makes clear that the shows had ended by late December rather than in early January). By February, however, they had abandoned the internal renovations and Zeus never re-opened, nor did anything else take its place.
Your additional details on the site of Mario are also welcome and re-affirm that 2015 marked the turning-point for Soi Twilight. After Mario's closure, the site was utilised as an adjunct to an ongoing operation of the X-Group, rather than anyone investing in setting-up anything new. It certainly wasn’t obvious in 2015 that Soi Twilight was about to begin contracting but, looking back, 2015 was the turning-point.
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Re: History of Soi Twilight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JayToff
Whilst I appreciate the effort that you have gone through to put together this report, I have no idea where you get the idea that 2011 was the peak of Soi Twilight. If anything it had peaked ten years earlier and was already in its death throes by 2011.
Of course if you look at the statistics it may seem that there were more venues in 2011 than in earlier/later years, but in this case quantity does not equal quality
By 2011 Twilight was already a shadow of its former self and had been abandoned by both its farang and Thai customer base, in this case they were replaced by Chinese tour groups who in the main were there for the shows and not to off boys, party or consume alcohol
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8 Attachment(s)
Re: History of Soi Twilight
The one that started it all...
Adverts for the original Twilight Bar from the 1989 issues of My Way magazine. The main advert and two following pictures are from the third issue of My Way from 1989.The other pictures are from the adverts that appeared in the two earlier editions for 1989, which are, essentially, similar.
With Twilight having been founded circa 1966, 1989 would be almost exactly half-way through its existence under that name c.1966 - 2004.
Attachment 10645
Attachment 10646
Attachment 10647
Attachment 10648
The following ones are from the two earlier issues:
Attachment 10649
Attachment 10650
Attachment 10651
Attachment 10652
Anyone keen on viewing the actual magazines can access them through the link to the rainbow archive that Colmx posted earlier in this thread.
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Re: History of Soi Twilight
Thank you ....and I bet they actually danced in those days! Sic transit gloria.
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Re: History of Soi Twilight
Jesus when you look at those lovely guys compared to some of the guys we're presented with now.......really does show you how things are changed and not for the better :-(
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Re: History of Soi Twilight
Agreed. That lot look superb compared with the fat scruffy tattoo covered types seen at certain bars in recent years.
However there is still some quality to be found in select places. Fresh Boys and Winner Boys, for instance, before covid intervened. Also, there are a small number of the apps. Often from Cambodia of Laos.
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Re: History of Soi Twilight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nirish guy
Jesus when you look at those lovely guys compared to some of the guys we're presented with now.......really does show you how things are changed and not for the better :-(
I'm assuming the photos are showing more twink type guys who are thinner and less tatoos than their modern counterparts?
I blame McDonalds and KFC.
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Re: History of Soi Twilight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cdnmatt
I'm assuming the photos are showing more twink type guys who are thinner and less tatoos than their modern counterparts? I blame McDonalds and KFC.
You are correct about the twink part etc - the difference being in the pics above out of nice guys pictured I'd happily take any one ( or more) of the nine without question, whereas lately in a go go bar if there were nice guys I'd be lucky to be ABLE to pick one or maybe two from the bunch - and yes KFC and to much beer and whiskey has a lot to do with that - and I KNOW that works two ways of course, but when the boys start paying ME then I'll start thinking about how they'd like me to look perhaps, but until then my requirements win.
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Re: History of Soi Twilight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cdnmatt
I'm assuming the photos are showing more twink type guys who are thinner and less tatoos than their modern counterparts?
I blame McDonalds and KFC.
Those types were the norm at the time. Guys next door types. Who had heard of body building then?! Tattoos were really unusual at that time.
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Re: History of Soi Twilight
OMG, is forgotten what it was like to see so many guys bunched together and not a single tatoo in sight. No fem-types, either.
Mind you, they do look rather young compared to the guys in the bars these days. But they are all very attractive. Maybe in those days there were a lot more guys willing to work in the bars and the managers could be more selective when deciding who to hire.
Many are probably happily married with kids now.
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Re: History of Soi Twilight
Slim, cute, no tattoos, no facial hair and small underwear.
I'd off any of them, subject to ID card checks.
Now whilst bars like Winner Boys and Fresh Boys have a good quality selection, other bars can have no one fit to off.
All is not lost though. If we pick bars carefully (when open), or are selective on the phone apps, guys comparable to those in the photos can still be found. Just not so many in one place.
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Re: History of Soi Twilight
Remember that in 1989 sixteen was the minimum age for working in a bar. It was changed to eighteen soon after my first visit, in the late 90s.
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Re: History of Soi Twilight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Oliver2
Thank you ....and I bet they actually danced in those days! Sic transit gloria.
Actually dancing in Twilight was not the norm in the 1980s. The bar had probably 60 - 80 boys with 40 or more on duty on a weekday evening and almost all at the weekends. The stage behind the bar was tiny and I never recall more than four being up there at any one time. Most boys knew they were there for one thing - to be offed or at least to get a drink or two, and so the nearest they came to dancing was an occasional soft shoe shuffle. Some were shy at being naked on stage and would cover their assets with their crunched up underwear. That is until one of the two mamasans would bark an order whereupon all was slowly revealed. Once they had done their bit on stage and on the mirrored pillar in the centre of the bar, they became far more friendly. Inviting one or more to have a drink, all their inhibitions disappeared.
The next four boys waiting to go on stage would be hunched down behind the bar desperately trying to work up even a mini erection. They always seemed to be laughing and enjoying themselves. But once on stage, quite a few just seemed to be embarrassed. This was so different from the much smaller Apollo Bar in Soi 4 where in the mid-1980s all the dancers did do a bit of dancing on the catwalk even when nude and all seemed to be having fun.
The only bar with real dancing was My Way off Rama 4. These boys were great, constantly smiling and almost all aggressively cute. The stage had two or three poles and most of the boys would use them to enhance their dancing feats. Barbiery was somewhat similar in terms of dancing, although in that bar it was the shows which were the main draw. Barbiery had nearly 100 boys at the weekends when the place would always be packed with as many seats as possible crammed in. The shows featured nudity and the boys always seemed to be having fun. I don't recall any of the boys revealing all in My Way.
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Re: History of Soi Twilight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JayToff
For a description of the bars on Soi Twilight in 2011, the year it attained its peak
Sorry I cannot agree that 2011 was when Twilight attained its peak. Yes, perhaps it had more bars that year (although I actually doubt it) but then many had opened and closed in between 2000 and 2010. Sitting in Dick's Cafe, some will remember a bar diagonally opposite with some sort of technology theme. Can't remember the name but it did not last long. I only remember it because one of the boys always outside was aggressively cute and as I later found out completely hairless apart from on his head and lower down. What a turn on! It became a billiards bar.
Then there was the short lived X-treme Bar. This was run by a white haired Englishman who I believe had worked in some position for the Church of England. He tried a different theme. He did have some regular gogo dancers but the main 'act' was a group of 8 or so young professional dancers or dance students who put on a different dance show every week. There was never nudity but these boys were great dancers and the shows were really fun. They would also mingle with customers after the shows. When the bar closed - probably around 2003 - the boys moved over to the German owner's bar across the soi. But even he found the act did not bring in the customers and so they migrated once again to the old Rome Club in Soi 4, then called Roxy. Again I think they did not last long.
We really have to remember that nightlife definitely changed after the Thaksin government's Social Order campaigns in 2001 and the new rules they laid down. One result was that many of the Thai customers who had been quite frequent bar hoppers in the 1980s and 90s began to disappear. By the turn of the millennium, gay saunas and massage establishments had been operating for well over a decade and they also tended to take customers away from the traditional gogo bars. In 2006 an article in The New York Times mentioned Bangkok's dwindling number of night spots. It also highlighted the increased number of raids on nightlife establishments. These were always accompanied by a media scrum. Who can forget the raid on Babylon led by some senior Minister who was photographed outside gingerly holding a condom and pronouncing that this was evidence of illegal sexual activity? The fact that another branch of government had been actively promoting the use of condoms for years as an anti-HIV measure seems not to have occurred to him!
The NYT article even quoted Kurt Wachtveitl, the legendary manager of the Mandarin Oriental Hotel, who that year spoke out against the social order rules, especially those that mandated the closure of bars and clubs at 1:00 am. "If Bangkok continues to be the kind of city that begins to look sleepy after midnight, it will be wasting all its advantages to the upscale foreign visitors. They'll go to Beijing, Shanghai and now Singapore," he lamented.
https://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/01/t...m-bangkok.html
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Re: History of Soi Twilight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
colmx
This contains references to 600 dpi tiff files. Has anyone found the location of those ?
Having seen the wonderful pictures above, if I see anything worth posting, it would be good to get the best resolution.
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Re: History of Soi Twilight
In 1995, the year of my first visit, dancing was the norm in all the go-go bars I visited and I can assure you that I visited a hell of a lot- though not Twilight- in Chiangmai, Patong, Bangkok and Pattaya. . Even the very small ones like Superboys (Patong) and Moonlight (Pattaya) had small dancing areas for three at a time.
Dancing of various levels of enthusiasm continued for another ten tears or so, as I previously mentioned.
I cannot recall any where the guys stood around and posed as they do now.
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Re: History of Soi Twilight
Armando, the technology themed bar across from Dick's Cafe may have been Boys.com, that was in that area of Soi Twilight around the year 2000. I think it was on the ground floor underneath Blue Star bar, what would later be the X-Size Bar on the second floor. I remember they played music at an ear splitting volume. The next year when I was in Bangkok, I believe Boys.com bar had closed.
At that time, several bars added a year to their name, Future Boys F-2000, Jupiter 2002, and there was also a boy bar named Y2K Bar in Sunee Plaza in Pattaya about that time.
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Re: History of Soi Twilight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
daydreamer
Armando, the technology themed bar across from Dick's Cafe may have been Boys.com, that was in that area of Soi Twilight around the year 2000. I think it was on the ground floor underneath Blue Star bar, what would later be the X-Size Bar on the second floor. I remember they played music at an ear splitting volume. The next year when I was in Bangkok, I believe Boys.com bar had closed.
Thanks daydreamer. I am sure you are correct with the name, but it was certainly still operating in late 2002. So I expect it must have closed around the end of that year.
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Re: History of Soi Twilight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Oliver2
I cannot recall any where the guys stood around and posed as they do now.
That's because they didn't have mobile phones!
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Re: History of Soi Twilight
True.... though I do remember a guy at a Soi Twilight bar way back in the late 90s who had somehow got hold of one of the earliest mobile phones. It was huge. Obviously unwilling to leave it in his locker, he had stuffed it down his briefs. Not a good look....there was barely room for the damn thing. Nor for anything else.
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Re: History of Soi Twilight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Armando
Thanks daydreamer. I am sure you are correct with the name, but it was certainly still operating in late 2002. So I expect it must have closed around the end of that year.
Armando, no doubt you are correct about the date. I remember the bar was open around the turn of the millennium, I most likely got the date off by a year or two. After so many years and so many trips, It's difficult to pin down an exact date for me. Around that time, I was visiting Bangkok about six times a year, as my home was only a two hour flight from Bangkok.
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Re: History of Soi Twilight
What was the name of the bar that had Fish Nets all around inside, anyone remember...I forgot exactly the name...