"So sorry"....most will not be back and no new one

I'm fearful that world wide public opinion about touring/vacationing in Thailand is set in concrete for a long while. Thailand can do all of the traditional dances at the airport it wants and apologize until it is blue in the face, but the world has seen and will remember the ugly side. Once a country's police and Army refuse to carry out the legitimate orders of the legal government, and that government can't control its public areas the defining points of a failed state have pretty much been achieved. News papers and TV news around the world has laid Thailand out as an out of control dangerous place to visit. It will take years for the family, senior citizen, and student backpacking tourist to return.

The return of the Thailand virgin, in the ways of Thailand single male tourist, will take some extended period of time to return to its once large numbers. The number of new tourist roaming Soi 6, Walking Street, Boyz Town, Sunee Plaza, Soi Twilight or Nana Plaza has been down in recent months. I fear that all but the hottest of the young people who work in these places will shortly be back in a rice patty in Issan.

The gentlemen on this board will see that there are far more boys than farangs. Capitalism being what it is the boys will ask...and then take half or less after a drink and a little smiling during hard nosed..or hard dick...negotiations. When I was there in September the boys were constantly complaining about the lack of customers, and making some interesting and creative offers on their own without even being ask.. I can only imagine how hungry the poor guys are now. Mom and Dad back on the farm don't want excuses they want their son's or daughter's monthly donation.

Not so much back in a rice paddy but rather on the internet.

Let the tourists (50k baht two week holiday makers) stay away for the time being. It is now rather good for having frisky boys - even in Soi Twilight, which has been ridiculously overpriced for far too long a number of the bars are finally becoming more negotiable on pricing and smoking policies (apart from the BBB group that the cat will no doubt like with its continuation of a no smoking policy) - elsewhere it is old school again - hurray.

The problem with allowing smoking in bars is that the bar looses as many if not more customers than it gains by allowing smoking. People vote with their feet, and there are far more people who not only don't smoke but hate smoke than there are customers that consider smoking necessary to enjoy a bar. The bar, also, risk a large fine if caught allowing smoking or has to pay added tea money to the police to look the other way when smoking is allowed. Anyway you slice it, allowing smoking cost a bar more in the long run that it can ever hope to gain in added revenue. Realistically smoking in public places is dying...as are the smokers.

I fear Soi 10 Tom is right. Thailand does look to the world now like a country out of control. The land of smiles is now the land of warring lunatics. The average tourist, who takes no interest in the political situation in the country they are visiting, now cannot avoid doing so. The government, palace, judiciary, army, and police are seen as corrupt, and unable or unwilling to intervene. That's the last place tourists want to visit, especially new tourists.

On top of that the world's media did not do a good job of distinguishing between mere inconvenience and actual physical danger to tourists. Once the world's attention had been drawn to Thailand by the airport occupations, subsequent news stories often led with stories of explosions and shots fired between the yellows and the reds. These were the same that had been going on for weeks, without any attention from the western media. But friends at home worried about their relatives in Thailand assumed that tourists were in physical danger, which of course was highly unlikely.

We can do a small job of explaining the real situation to friends and family, in fact we will probably have some explaining to do just to justify why WE are going back / staying !

Tourism in Bali recovered several years after the bombings (which killed hundreds), despite the ongoing fears of terrorism, and questionable security measures, because the basic attractions remained. IF the yellows and the reds stay off the streets and a semblance of stability returns, AND Thailand remains a more comfortable and relatively cheap destination in comparison to its competitors, AND the world economic crisis abates, tourists will return, eventually ...

I agree the recent events have done nothing good for Thailand's image, but sending in the troops to quell the protests with the loss of maybe hundreds of lives, as was the way in the old days, would hardly have been good for Thailand's image either.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dave_syd

I agree the recent events have done nothing good for Thailand's image, but sending in the troops to quell the protests with the loss of maybe hundreds of lives, as was the way in the old days, would hardly have been good for Thailand's image either.

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Agreed, but guarding the airports and government buildings in a way befitting a nation with some sense of national security would avoid the need to evict protesters by force when they hold the country to ransom.

The need to secure the airports properly was the point made by the delegation of foreign diplomats to the Foreign Ministry last week ....
http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Foreign-D ... 27518.html

Of course whether the security 'failure' in allowing the PAD to occupy the government building and airports was due to incompetence, or vested interests in letting them have their way, is another matter.

yes I agree here with a downward of tourism from families, but know everyone in THIS forum it really won't affect much.
we know what fun is still available there.

Some thoughts of my own:

Guarding the airports against what the PAD deployed would have taken at least a division of troops. PAD descended in mass. It was not something that could have been easily or even reasonably stopped without loss of life. It's easy now for us to monday-morning-quarterback what should/could have been done, but with the goal of not killing anybody, it's understandable how it played out. I hope Thai airways lawsuit gets traction and PAD has to pay for their riots.

Tourist: Yes, it will hurt tourist traffic for a while. But, if the government can keep themselves out of the international news for even six months, the world will forget what happened here, and next year's tourist season will be as usual.

The oracle has spoken.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hmmm

....IF the yellows and the reds stay off the streets and a semblance of stability returns, AND Thailand remains a more comfortable and relatively cheap destination in comparison to its competitors, AND the world economic crisis abates, tourists will return, eventually ...

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And maybe Pigs will learn to fly too? :snorting:

People have short memories. There will be a brief downturn, then all will be forgotten. Or not, I really don't care.

I agree with most of what has been said, as for me I will likely continue to go. I have been places and lived in places much more dangerous and survived. However, the people who value their lives more than a good time may feel very differently, especially people with families. For the single gay sex tourist I think likely they will be back sooner than the family style person looking for a good cheap vacation spot. Nevertheless, It like Bali, will take time to heal the image of a country known for being the land of Smiles. Just as much as I know, our own Smiles can at times get quite hard to get along with and I as well can get a bit hard to get along with when I believe I am right.

I would say the government made some huge strategic blunders. One not protecting the Airport was one of them. Getting them out, like any hostage situation is harder than keeping them out in the first placeтАж I feel sorry for the guys that eventually will l lose their jobs to a rice paddy. However, it was their Way of life before the tourist made money boys out of them out for what they felt was necessity.

All the Best!

Wes

There has been a ton of over-the-top whining about this episode. I mean, in comparison to places where tourists have been actually singled out for mass murder by terrorist squads (Bali, India, Egypt), the inconvenience posed by the closing of an airport for a week is, really, not so significant. We've lost at most maybe one tourist season.

I am in agreement with the "short memory" theorists. Most people are in continual denial
and do not believe it can happen to them. Look at the tobacco smokers, if you want to
see denial in the flesh as well as the morbidly obese and the boozers..

Posting as one of the champions of the anti-tobacco smoking policies, it is not the major reason or
problem in the bars. It is a major irritant but so are hideous pushy mamasans, overly loud
music, uncomfortable seating for larger bodied men, and poor attitudes of some. The overuse
of red lighting is tired as are the 'black lights'. Grotesque farang ladymen and the masses
of ladyboys also add to the list.

But, I wouldn't want to live anywhere else and love the bars, the boys and the scene.
To sum it up, I can live with broken traffic lights, foul smelling cooking oils in my face,
hordes of motorbikers intent on hitting us, torrential flooding and mind numbing heat and humidity, dozens of smug, self absorbed boring farangs, cheats, scoundrals, con men
and flamboyant foolish men.

The negatives are always there but the positives so far outweigh the negatives, Thailand wins
every time..
What is a coup or two, when compared to the greatest time of our lives? Each of
us has to answer the question in their own way and for gay men who are past it, this is still
paradise, as long as you have baht in your pocket and don't believe you can buy love... :cat:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by catawampuscat

I am in agreement with the "short memory" theorists. Most people are in continual denial
and do not believe it can happen to them.

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And, after all, when we're talking about it "happening to them", we're talking only about a relatively minor inconvenience -- not death by beheading or bomb attack. Let's get real here.

[/quote] gra45
Wow well put Pissyboy LOL i am a large guy 104 kg but still losing weight and only need 1 seat lol but i totally agree with you ..your a man with the right words cant put it any better even if i tried and tried and tried ....i do care what going on in LOS so much as i think there a beautiful friendly natured lifestyle that are struggling and if i could it be my home one day ...As there is no paradise like this ..but saying that NZ south island is awesome for a tourist but not for what we need on the side...[/quote]

Is this the reincarnation of badboybilly or just another jerk. I know I am a troll magnet but
perhaps this bad imitation of bbb doesn't understand he is insulting with his pissyboy reference but nobody could be that stupid.. Hmm .. maybe it is bbb, and maybe just another asswipe loser. I would be happier if he didn't agree with me and this asswipe just made the IGNORE list.
My ignore list is now longer than hominterns (private joke).. :cat:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hmmm

I fear Soi 10 Tom is right. Thailand does look to the world now like a country out of control. The land of smiles is now the land of warring lunatics. The average tourist, who takes no interest in the political situation in the country they are visiting, now cannot avoid doing so. The government, palace, judiciary, army, and police are seen as corrupt, and unable or unwilling to intervene. That's the last place tourists want to visit, especially new tourists.
..

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For me, Thailand is a country out of control. I will continue to visit but with trepidation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by "catawampuscat"

But, I wouldn't want to live anywhere else and love the bars, the boys and the scene.
To sum it up, I can live with broken traffic lights, foul smelling cooking oils in my face,
hordes of motorbikers intent on hitting us, torrential flooding and mind numbing heat and humidity, dozens of smug, self absorbed boring farangs, cheats, scoundrals, con men
and flamboyant foolish men.

The negatives are always there but the positives so far [i

outweigh[/i] the negatives, Thailand wins
every time..
What is a coup or two, when compared to the greatest time of our lives? Each of
us has to answer the question in their own way and for gay men who are past it, this is still
paradise, as long as you have baht in your pocket and don't believe you can buy love... :cat:

---

Well spoken, catawampuscat! For me the greatest time of my life. Paradise on earth, if not in heaven.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chao Na

Quote:

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Originally Posted by catawampuscat

I am in agreement with the "short memory" theorists. Most people are in continual denial
and do not believe it can happen to them.

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And, after all, when we're talking about it "happening to them", we're talking only about a relatively minor inconvenience -- not death by beheading or bomb attack. Let's get real here.

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True, but that's not the way it was reported in many parts of the world. The sensationalized picture they saw, of what was supposedly going on in the streets, was of shots fired and bombs thrown. It was rarely clearly explained that the tourists were far away and in little danger of being caught in the cross-fire.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chao Na

And, after all, when we're talking about it "happening to them", we're talking only about a relatively minor inconvenience -- not death by beheading or bomb attack. Let's get real here.

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I guess Chao na must be one of that handful of people who think it unlikely that violence will continue, or that some form of civil war will follow the event we are not allowed to mention. It was after all only Thais killing each other wasn't it.

Quote:

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It will take years for the family, senior citizen, and student backpacking tourist to return.

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bullshit. it didn't take long for phuket and phi phi to see an even bigger
return in tourism in a short time following the tsunami, which was a
disaster of larger proportions covered much more heavily in the western
media.

i have buddies who backpack cambodia, thailand, and malaysia almost
every year and they could care less about this stuff. it makes for better
stories and maybe some cool photos. as for families and seniors...c'mon!
what percentage of thailand's tourism do you really think is senior
citizens and families?


thailand is resiliant, and people are lemmings with short memories.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jimnbkk

Yes, it will hurt tourist traffic for a while. But, if the government can keep themselves out of the international news for even six months, the world will forget what happened here, and next year's tourist season will be as usual.

The oracle has spoken.

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I agree oracle.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Curious

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chao Na

And, after all, when we're talking about it "happening to them", we're talking only about a relatively minor inconvenience -- not death by beheading or bomb attack. Let's get real here.

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I guess Chao na must be one of that handful of people who think it unlikely that violence will continue, or that some form of civil war will follow the event we are not allowed to mention. It was after all only Thais killing each other wasn't it.

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How many deaths total were there during the whole debacle, start to finish? Let's compare to what happened in Bali, or in India recently, and get back to reality instead of being Chicken Littles. The past few weeks have been a minor bump in comparison, and will be quickly forgotten. Unless the situation gets worse - which it may, or which it may not. Let's discuss again if, and when, tourists' physical security is ever threatened.

The more I see of Thai politics the more I realise it is foolish to make predictions.

Many people were forecasting a rebadged PPP taking over as the new government. Events today make it look quite likely that instead a Democrat led coalition will actually be taking over. Even last minute negotiations by Thaksin's ex-wife werent able to sway enough people to join with the Puea Thai party, and Thaksin's sister couldnt even manage a nomination for party leader.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_new ... ?id=135207

Maybe some of the politicians have taken notice of recent events and have decided its time to move away from Thaksin. Only time will tell. And who knows what the UDD response will be.

its the exchange rate , which in the end will stop people coming, no matter if gay or str8

The land of Smiles is a great place for the family, lots of history, great temples that still practice what they believe. If its the sex trade that susutains the tourism then it is a sad statement indeed. There is so much more to Thaland that a boy, mind you, that is enough to get me there, but I get plenty of that here. The truth is there is no where quite like LOS. If it loses that remarkable packaged smile, the land of Smiles brings with it, then I am not sure we have not lost more than just a coup or two. I don't trust the Thai goverment to keep me safe , I don't here either and never did in Kyrgyzstan. its up to me to keep me safe when a guest in another country. A bump in the road it may be, but honestly, after having been there, met the people seen them work play and love. I was astonished to see the mild mannerd everyday Joe Thai guy on the news packed up for a long stay in the Airport. I really saw a side to them I had never seen. Unfortunatly, the world was watching as well. It may be a bump but a small one .... Im not sure yet!

Wes

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Curious

It was after all only Thais killing each other wasn't it.

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Yes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jimnbkk

Some thoughts of my own: Guarding the airports against what the PAD deployed would have taken at least a division of troops. ... PAD descended in mass. ... The oracle has spoken.

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It wouldn't, and they didn't.

Had the Army (not the Police) wanted to stop the move to and the invasion of the airport they could have done so very easily with relatively few troops and a minimum of bloodshed. They had ample warning, but they simply did not want to.

Similarly, they could have ended the occupation of Government House before it got out of hand with a minimum of effort, and even when it was at its height it would not have been a major problem. Again, they simply did not want to.

The oracle is wrong!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by netrix

bullshit. it didn't take long for phuket and phi phi to see an even bigger return in tourism in a short time following the tsunami ...what percentage of thailand's tourism do you really think is senior citizens and families?

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Bullshit!!! Most tourists can see the difference between a one-off natural disaster which has never happened before, and is unlikely to happen again, and recent events. And the amount contributed by your backpacking buddies is minimal in comparison with the amount spent by the Asian and European "senior citizens and families".

It seems motivation of visitors is being brought into question. Political or natural bad times and not a big put off. I remember after the airplanes were grounded after 9/11 disaster in New York. I hopped on a plane a few day later, with full intent that if someone tried to take over the plane I would toss my shoe at them or at last try to bang one of the bad guys on the head with my shoe. One can not let fear rule what one does in life. It is not smart to walk in the face of disaster like jumping off a 10 story bulding thinking that if is not my time to die, I won't die. But if we suspend all pursuits because of what might happen, then we are giving a lot of power to entities not deserving of that power. My next trip to LOS will be in May. During the airport takeover I did not flinch in determination to vacation in May. But that is me and I understand others may choose some other destination this year. Whoever suggested Rio, that is a very good choice. I never know about Brazil's money, but I did notice the going rate for Baht to the dollar is about 35,, seems good to me.

Add Greece to the list of former tourism meccas where tourists will never, ever set foot again. Hahaha.

....and London. He he he news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/7770513.stm

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chao Na

Add Greece to the list of former tourism meccas where tourists will never, ever set foot again. Hahaha.

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I will 18th december. Hahaha

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bing

It seems motivation of visitors is being brought into question. Political or natural bad times and not a big put off. I remember after the airplanes were grounded after 9/11 disaster in New York. I hopped on a plane a few day later, with full intent that if someone tried to take over the plane I would toss my shoe at them or at last try to bang one of the bad guys on the head with my shoe. One can not let fear rule what one does in life. It is not smart to walk in the face of disaster like jumping off a 10 story bulding thinking that if is not my time to die, I won't die. But if we suspend all pursuits because of what might happen, then we are giving a lot of power to entities not deserving of that power. My next trip to LOS will be in May. During the airport takeover I did not flinch in determination to vacation in May. But that is me and I understand others may choose some other destination this year. Whoever suggested Rio, that is a very good choice. I never know about Brazil's money, but I did notice the going rate for Baht to the dollar is about 35,, seems good to me.

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Philippines 49.33 to the $

Wes

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sen Yai

....and London. He he he news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/7770513.stm

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Re-opened after 5 hours. The police cleared the protestors from the runway area. We have a strange way of doing things in this country. :drunken:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by atri1666

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chao Na

Add Greece to the list of former tourism meccas where tourists will never, ever set foot again. Hahaha.

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I will 18th december. Hahaha

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You're like me, then. When the nervous nellies are stamping their little feet and saying they'll never go somewhere ever again, that's when I go. If I weren't here already, I'd be going to Thailand in a split second right now.

[quote=Chao Na]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by atri1666

Quote:

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Originally Posted by "Chao Na":16ruju6l

Add Greece to the list of former tourism meccas where tourists will never, ever set foot again. Hahaha.

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I will 18th december. Hahaha

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You're like me, then. When the nervous nellies are stamping their little feet and saying they'll never go somewhere ever again, that's when I go. If I weren't here already, I'd be going to Thailand in a split second right now.[/quote:16ruju6l]

So you like that rough trade, why not take your ass to Mecca right now In Suadia Arabia. LOL bet it would be really safe for a queer there right now during the Pilgramage.

I'm only interested in places inhabited by humans. Those people are subhuman. As I've said before and which you are obviously baiting me to say again.

I lived in a Muslim country for 10 years, I would not say they are all sub- Human, I do think they place less value on human life however. Other than that they are not all that bad. Now the Saudi may be another issue altogether, of which I may not be qualified to speak to their plight. Oil rich and a bit spoiled I think is a better word for it.

You know I would not bait you, you are much to bright for that.

All the best,

Wes

unfortunately, they are the same exact species as the rest of us but live in a feudal society,
dominated by men who are threatened by women and frankly anyone who doesn't bow down
and kiss their feet and hold the same superstitions and fantasies to be the truth.

It would be an ugly world if orthodox Christians, Jews and Moslems ran the world..
I love being in a Buddhist country, while not perfect, at least not consumed with guilt about sex.
Fuck them all and their miserable mind sets. Their sexual suppression is their own curse
and they have to live with the perverse rules they created and support. That seems like punishment to me. :cat:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by catawampuscat

unfortunately, they are the same exact species as the rest of us but live in a feudal society,
dominated by men who are threatened by women and frankly anyone who doesn't bow down
and kiss their feet and hold the same superstitions and fantasies to be the truth.

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By your description of them, they sound to me like a group of people that you would probably feel very comfortable and quite at home with. http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/k...histling-1.gif


G.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by catawampuscat

unfortunately, they are the same exact species as the rest of us but live in a feudal society,
dominated by men who are threatened by women and frankly anyone who doesn't bow down
and kiss their feet and hold the same superstitions and fantasies to be the truth.

It would be an ugly world if orthodox Christians, Jews and Moslems ran the world..
I love being in a Buddhist country, while not perfect, at least not consumed with guilt about sex.
Fuck them all and their miserable mind sets. Their sexual suppression is their own curse
and they have to live with the perverse rules they created and support. That seems like punishment to me. :cat:

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Oh my gawd. You used the "f" word. And completely unmodified.

ROFLMLWAO

The word police will be along any second to inspect your dispensation document.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ceejay

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sen Yai

....and London. He he he news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/7770513.stm

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Re-opened after 5 hours. The police cleared the protestors from the runway area. We have a strange way of doing things in this country. :drunken:

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We may muck everything else here but we seem to have learned how to run a proper police state.