COVID-19 Vaccine - best advice

the most obvious and important conclusion that can be drawn from the discussions in the two other ongoing vaccine threads here is it is virtually impossible to come to an informed decision on such a significant issue based on such discussions

I assume, or at least hope, that most people here don't consider this site as their best or only source of news and opinion on this issue, and we all have, or should be developing, our own collection of reliable information sources, so the best advice is to keep developing and improving your collection and ignore these threads

it is the same reason I don't use facebook - on significant issues the "signal to noise" ratio just makes it a waste of time

but to be fair if I want to keep up to date on what is happening in the gay scene in Thailand the Sawatdee Gay Thailand forum here is a good place to read up - sources/horses for courses as the saying goes

1 I think most of us can work out the difference between information, suspect information and bullshit. Also, it's fairly easy to recognise those who do not approach the matter with an open mind.

2 Anyone posting about vaccines is welcome to post links to sources, so that people can see where the information comes from. I've sometimes done that, but admittedly not always.

3 Unless you are in Russia or the Chinese military, at present I don't think you have a vaccine option anyway.
Of course, in some areas you can sign up for a trial, which gets you a 50% chance of being a guinea pig.

When there is a vaccine available, there's no harm in reading up on it.
This forum would of course not be the most respected & specialised source for that, but there's not harm in reading what's written here & then going to specialist medical publications if you have a decision to make.

Mind you, some people have scary decision making processes. Such as the kind of person who sits on the beach all day, then can't wait to get his wallet out and hand over 2000 baht when someone offers some obviously fake Viagra branded pills. So perhaps you have a point.

How about the director of the CDC? Should we listen to him? Here's what he told congress today under oath:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okXMLCW43Ak

At least for the US, hence I'm assuming majority of the world as well, don't expect a vaccine to be available to you until send of 2nd quarter / 3rd quarter of 2021.

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Originally Posted by goji

I think most of us can work out the difference between information, suspect information and bullshit.

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personally I suspect that if that was the case then facebook would not have the influence it has today

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Originally Posted by goji

Also, it's fairly easy to recognise those who do not approach the matter with an open mind.

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interesting - I don't really see an "open mind" is really the issue, I think your first point is more relevant

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Originally Posted by cdnmatt

How about the director of the CDC? Should we listen to him?

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I don't know that I can recommend anyone here, including myself, who should be recommending who you should listen to - my whole point was read widely enough so you can make your own decision as to who you to listen to!

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Originally Posted by bkkguy

personally I suspect that if that was the case then facebook would not have the influence it has today

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I was kind of assuming our membership might be more widely read and deep thinking than the typical Facebook user. Obviously with a few exceptions. If the membership thinks like Facebook & Tik Tok users, you might have a point.

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Originally Posted by bkkguy

I don't know that I can recommend anyone here, including myself, who should be recommending who you should listen to - my whole point was read widely enough so you can make your own decision as to who you to listen to!

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You are perfectly correct that we should not listen to you, or any other writer on SGT, but in truth, It is not a matter of anyone’s opinion. Scientific consensus, even when it is wrong, is still the best shot we have.

NEWS FLASH, The consensus among scientist who are lifelong learners in this field is that this virus is dangerous, it can kill, it is easily spread, you may get it and it might come back, and finally some of the effects may be permanent.

Stay safe guys, and for those of you in Thailand, I would not be in any hurry for Thailand to open up. This full/half/partial lockdown is making even simple trips out difficult, at least in America. Trust me, Covid living got old months ago.

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Originally Posted by Khor tose

NEWS FLASH, The consensus among scientist who are lifelong learners in this field is that this virus is dangerous, it can kill, it is easily spread, you may get it and it might come back, and finally some of the effects may be permanent.

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NEWSFLASH
(1) All risk is relative. A friend sent me a link from an Australian newspaper yesterday where the Chief Government Medical Official described the risk as “20 times greater indoors”.
(2) There is no scientific consensus; anyone who reads widely knows that it’s at best probabilities such as “the virus is spread by extended contact in confined spaces”
(3) In many jurisdictions the number of deaths in motor vehicle accidents far exceeds deaths from COVID-19 - and we don’t even know those accurately because people dying with COVID-19 as ONE of their co-morbidities are almost always recorded as dying FROM COVID-19
(4) The media pumps up stories about risks only ever observed in laboratories under controlled conditions (eg. contaminated surfaces) as if they are real-world risks. The necklace-clutchers lap it up

NEWSFLASH 2
(1) The Media is the Virus.
(2) The Virus is the Media

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Originally Posted by gerefan2

NEWSFLASH 2
(1) The Media is the Virus.
(2) The Virus is the Media

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Our very own Donald Trump

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Originally Posted by gerefan2

NEWSFLASH 2
(1) The Media is the Virus.
(2) The Virus is the Media

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I know, bunch of liberal hacks who actually buy into this virus and pandemic non-sense. It's obviously just a hoax, so the Democrats can continue ruling the world behind the scenes while practicing their satanic rituals, and running their child sex pedophilia ring from a pizzeria in Washington.

I don't know how these libs just don't get it. I took Trump's god-like advice and injected myself with some Clorox, so I'm not worried about this fake virus at all. These liberals need to get on board.

EDIT: For anyone wondering, there is a group called qAnon that acually are gaining quite a bit of traction, and do believe Democrats led by Hilary Clinton are operations a child sex rin out of a pizzeria. To the point one guy even walked into said pizzeria and blasted a shot gun though the ceiling, because he was going to save them kids from the evil Dems! Cops even investigated, and it turns out the pizerria doesn't even have a basement, which is where this operation was supposedly takeing place.

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Originally Posted by StevieWonders

NEWSFLASH
(1) All risk is relative. A friend sent me a link from an Australian newspaper yesterday where the Chief Government Medical Official described the risk as “20 times greater indoors”.
(2) There is no scientific consensus; anyone who reads widely knows that it’s at best probabilities such as “the virus is spread by extended contact in confined spaces”
(3) In many jurisdictions the number of deaths in motor vehicle accidents far exceeds deaths from COVID-19 - and we don’t even know those accurately because people dying with COVID-19 as ONE of their co-morbidities are almost always recorded as dying FROM COVID-19
(4) The media pumps up stories about risks only ever observed in laboratories under controlled conditions (eg. contaminated surfaces) as if they are real-world risks. The necklace-clutchers lap it up

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The equating of covid19 to motor vehicle deaths is nonsense, a complete red herring. There is no comparison whatever. Deaths from covid19 is one thing. Being afflicted by the virus is quite another. Increasingly scientists and epidemiologists are warning of longer term and indeed long term effects to lungs and other organs in the body.

As for deaths from other ailments being put down to covid19, let's see your evidence. From what I read, more covid19 deaths are recorded as from other ailments. Quite the opposite.

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Originally Posted by Armando

The equating of covid19 to motor vehicle deaths is nonsense, a complete red herring. There is no comparison whatever. Deaths from covid19 is one thing. Being afflicted by the virus is quite another. Increasingly scientists and epidemiologists are warning of longer term and indeed long term effects to lungs and other organs in the body.

As for deaths from other ailments being put down to covid19, let's see your evidence. From what I read, more covid19 deaths are recorded as from other ailments. Quite the opposite.

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Categorising causes of death provides perspective and may act as an antidote to hysteria. There is no judgment about the relativities. As for recorded causes vs. actual causes, do a Google search; you will find it is a lively subject of debate

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Originally Posted by Armando

The equating of covid19 to motor vehicle deaths is nonsense, a complete red herring. There is no comparison whatever. Deaths from covid19 is one thing. Being afflicted by the virus is quite another. Increasingly scientists and epidemiologists are warning of longer term and indeed long term effects to lungs and other organs in the body.

As for deaths from other ailments being put down to covid19, let's see your evidence. From what I read, more covid19 deaths are recorded as from other ailments. Quite the opposite.

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It's a bullshit rationale some people who don't want to believe a pandemic is happening use. What they don't seem to realize is pretty much every single death on this planet has more than one cause. When a patient dies, the doctor has to write a cause of death, and it's almost never just one cause. There's almost always several causes of death.

Just because a patient died of a stroke, doesn't mean the doctor isn't also going to list diabetes and hypertension as causes of death, or whatever. That's the rationale some people try to make. Just because the doctor listed "fat fuck who weighed 430lbs" as a cause of death along with KoVid, they believe it shouldn't be counted as a death within the KoVid fatalities.

For a useful summary of what we know or suspect about becoming infected by the coronavirus there’s a good summary on Bloomberg today - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-you-quicktake

As I said recently, it’s a disease mostly spread by extended contact in confined spaces. Interestingly the Apps that purport to track potential contacts all focus on one time period - 15+ minutes. Spending 30 seconds in an elevator or passing someone in a shopping centre just doesn’t cut it. The arguments for masks are strongest in indoor or static environments (such as a football stadium where attendees don’t move around) and much less for outdoor protest marches such as the ludicrous People Of Colour Lives Matter

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Originally Posted by StevieWonders

As I said recently, it’s a disease mostly spread by extended contact in confined spaces. Interestingly the Apps that purport to track potential contacts all focus on one time period - 15+ minutes. Spending 30 seconds in an elevator or passing someone in a shopping centre just doesn’t cut it. The arguments for masks are strongest in indoor or static environments (such as a football stadium where attendees don’t move around) and much less for outdoor protest marches such as the ludicrous People Of Colour Lives Matter

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1. Every medical professional in the world states you're far safer outdoors vs. indoors.

2. They also all state you're more at more risk with prolonged periods of time indorrs around people versus a quick 30 seconds.

3. The director of the CDC just days ago testified to the US Senate under oath that if people just wore masks and took proper pre-cautions, the United States would have this entire pandemic under control within 6 - 8 weeks, instead of allowing it to continue to sprial out of contorl. Same goes for every medical professional in the world.

4. Don't be an assohle, and just put a mask on when you go out. It'ls really not that big of a deal.

and this thread has so quickly deteriorated to the point where we would all probably be better off ignoring this thread as well as the other two threads originally highlighted ...

Well, I don't understand why people are so allergic to listening to some of the world's top and highly renowned epidemiologists, and instead come up with their own reality that suits them better.

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Originally Posted by cdnmatt

Well, I don't understand why people are so allergic to listening to some of the world's top and highly renowned epidemiologists, and instead come up with their own reality that suits them better.

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Make up your mind, Matt. Is it “some of the world’s top and highly renowned epidemiologists” (your latest post) or “every medical professional in the world” (your penultimate post in this thread)?

BTW my favourite headline this week comes from Newsweek: “Dozens infected with COVID-19 at hospital after nurse retirement party”