A warning to anyone who may consider political office and doesn't represent the ruling elite; even if you win a democratic election, eventually you will be imprisoned.
And if you choose direct action, expect a sniper's bullet.
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A warning to anyone who may consider political office and doesn't represent the ruling elite; even if you win a democratic election, eventually you will be imprisoned.
And if you choose direct action, expect a sniper's bullet.
that's what I like to see - someone who doesn't let their political leanings distort their view of realityQuote:
Originally Posted by Oliver
bkkguy
Yingluck impeachment verdict due in Thailand.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/j ... t-thailand
Not sure why anyone would be holding their breath; the verdict is not only a foregone conclusion, it's already been announced (before the official vote was taken) that she'll be prosecuted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Up2U
Yingluck impeached by NLA.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/politic ... om-survive
Yingluck's post impeachment statement in English.
http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.ph ... 06§ion
So no more elections. The junta knows that if democracy were restored, it is they who would be facing trial.
Some analysis from the BBC (Jonathan Head) on the current situation in Thailand.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-30974131
No plan to lift martial law: Prayuth
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politic ... 52770.html
and U. S. Asst. Secretary of State speaks and comments at Chulalongkarn University about politically driven impeachment:
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politic ... 52708.html
I found this article somewhat depressing to read. Thailand's return to authoritarianism:
http://www.asiasentinel.com/politics/th ... map=%5B%5D
Freedom House lowers Thailand's score from "partly free" to "not free".
https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom ... Mnuy9Fuv5I
if you are not too depressed perhaps you could translate this paragraph from the article into English for the sake of us poor non-political scientists in an ivory tower:Quote:
Originally Posted by Up2U
but even ignoring such gems as "[t]he discourse of anti-majoritarian democracy" I agree the article is fairly depressing for anyone who was expecting a reasonable analysis of the current situation - it starts with:Quote:
Originally Posted by Puangthong Pawakapan
which at least nails her colours to the mast upfront and then continues with 20 paragraphs selectively focusing on some of the worst aspects of the back and forth of the constitution drafting debate presenting it almost as a fait accompli, as if the new constitution was already drafted and ready to be implemented tomorrow, with constant back-references to the 2007 "People's Constitution" as if this was the country's only hope of salvation, when it patently wasn't!Quote:
Originally Posted by Puangthong Pawakapan
she does at least redeem herself at the end (though not necessarily in the way she intends):
and I don't necessarily disagree with her conclusion (though again perhaps not for the reason she hopes):Quote:
Originally Posted by Puangthong Pawakapan
but unlike you I don't find that any more depressing then the "progress" experienced under the "democracy" Thailand supposedly practiced under the various Taksin governments - or indeed any other government - since the 1930'sQuote:
Originally Posted by Puangthong Pawakapan
I think she, and many others on both sides, need to take their blinkers off and finally acknowledge that it is not just the "deep divisions" in Thai politics that are the problem, democracy is fundamentally incompatible with Thailand's patronage-based hierarchical social structure and nobody seems to be seriously interested in addressing that - not even the US and other western countries who loudly demand that "democracy" be "restored" ASAP in Thailand
bkkguy
Nice nutshell Bkkguy.Quote:
Originally Posted by bkkguy
I suggest we all take a deep breath and try to relax: Thailand will never change just because western democracies want it to, or have sentimental hopes that it will.
It's just so obvious those little brown people aren't capable of adapting the way us clever whiteys have. You've only got to look at ... oh, say, Burma ... to see that.
Isn't it odd that, decades, colonialism and racism have been on the defensive and yet here they are, in a new guise, telling us the same old story..."we know best and you little people must do as you are told."
And interesting that the language of the Boers and the white supremacists of the US finds its way onto this board.
perhaps the moderators could look into making the use of an extended range of emoticons compulsory for the sake of those forum readers whose sarcasm and chain-jerking filters are not functioning?Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver
bkkguy
From the Economist: Thaksin times
http://www.economist.com/news/asia/2164 ... ksin-times
Quote:
Originally Posted by Up2U
There was considerable feedback in the Thai press about Sec. Russell's comments at Chulalongkarn.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/politic ... ed-stories
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/politic ... t-comments
http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.ph ... section=11
Human Rights in Free fall (the truth is of course banned in Thailand).
http://m.hrw.org/news/2015/01/29/thaila ... -free-fall
Opinion: Junta's agenda clearer after Yingluck verdict.
http://www.straitstimes.com/news/opinio ... t-20150129
More flack from Sec. Russel's comments. NLA wants U.S. envoy to explain.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/general ... to-explain
Remember the rice scheme and Yingluck's impeachment, now we have the rubber scheme. Of course, the rubber tappers are from the south and were marching in support of Suthep.
http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2015/02/02/r ... rket-price
from the headline of the linked article "the government is to consider...", from the body of the article some public servants "will ask the government to consider...", but according to you "now we have..." a rubber scheme - why don't we wait for an actual scheme to be implemented before we start dropping non-subtle hints about where rubber is grown in ThailandQuote:
Originally Posted by Up2U
and from the article the government is being asked to spend a one-off THB6 billion to buy rubber at market price - I think you and the Cocunuts news reporter (and I use the term "news reporter" loosely) are the ones who could benefit from a reminder of the details of Yingluck's rice scheme
did you post this link because you seriously thought it would help others understand the situation in Thailand? or because you thought it may challenge some people to think about and to see through such shallow manipulative reporting? or the whole thing was just a joke and it is my sarcasm and chain-jerking filter that needs replacing?
bkkguy
The article pointed out the parallels between the two schemes, one of course led to the impeachment of the PM Yingluck. This report is based on the linked report within the article from the government's news website which you may wish to read so I provided the link. The rubber growers plan to converge on the Government House if their requests are not met.Quote:
Originally Posted by bkkguy
http://thainews.prd.go.th/centerweb/new ... 2010010010
I won't waste my time asking again why you make such postsQuote:
Originally Posted by Up2U
bkkguy
I would say your sarcasm and chain-jerking feature definitely needs replacing, Up2U. Your posting is more bombastic and pedantic than ironic -- and the chain you're jerking is your own.
I make such posts to keep others informed on the latest political situation in Thailand. As you know I usually provide just links without editorializing and let people make up their minds. The Bangkok coconuts article caught my eye since it illustrates in my mind the lack of fair play and double standards. They took the official government news story and suggested the politics at work behind the scenes. I know you like only reputable news sources so here's one for you from the WSJ. The junta is fooling no one except perhaps you.Quote:
Originally Posted by bkkguy
http://www.wsj.com/articles/thailands-d ... 1422924940
As a gay man I have always been accused of jerking my own chain. Thanks for reminding me.Quote:
Originally Posted by prospero
Your link to the Wall Street Journal is of little use unless one subscribes: https://buy.wsj.com/offers/pages/offerS ... ition=apac
Copy & paste it? No one will tell.
I had to use screenshots..... :-ssQuote:
Originally Posted by Smiles
Quote:
ThailandтАЩs Dictators in Denial
The Wall Street Journal Europe
3 Feb 2015
The U.S. offered muted criticism of ThailandтАЩs military coup last MayтАФ no doubt because the country is designated a тАЬmajor non-NATO allyтАЭ and the coup plotters promised to restore democracy quickly. But the juntaтАЩs decision last month to abandon political reconciliation and impeach former Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra for alleged corruption has prompted the Obama administration to speak up.
Assistant Secretary of State Daniel Russel, the most senior U.S. official to visit Thailand since last MayтАЩs coup, used a speech at ThailandтАЩs most prestigious university last week to call for an end to martial law and restrictions on free speech and assembly. With classic diplomatic understatement he warned that тАЬthe international community is left with the impression that [the prosecution of Ms. Yingluck] could be politically driven.тАЭ The U.S. has also scaled back the annual тАЬCobra GoldтАЭ joint military exercise.
The junta responded with outrage, while the pro-government media whipped up a frenzy of anti-American anger at this supposed interference in ThailandтАЩs internal affairs. If that accusation has a Chinese ring, it is no coincidence: Beijing has seized the opportunity to cozy up to the junta. Dictator Prayuth Chan-ocha visited Beijing to meet President Xi Jinping on Dec. 23. While the U.S. Embassy fields complaints and protests, Chinese companies sign contracts to build railways.
Meanwhile, on Sunday night two small improvised bombs exploded outside BangkokтАЩs busiest shopping mall, injuring one person. Nobody claimed responsibility, but the incident is reminiscent of a 2010 episode in which largely peaceful antigovernment protests were disrupted by mysterious men firing military weapons. These so-called тАЬblack shirtsтАЭ were never caught, and their activities provided a justification for the military to clear the streets at the cost of about 100 lives.
In December, a former Prime Minister and Army chief Chavalit Yongchaiyudh warned of the possibility that a faction of the military could attempt a counter-coup. That remains unlikely, but reports of political divisions within the Army have filtered out steadily since the last coup in 2006. That may have helped push the junta to become more hard-line.
This hasnтАЩt stopped public discussion of the contradictions underlying military rule. Ms. Yingluck is accused of corruption for a massive effort to boost the incomes of rice farmers and could face 10 years in prison. While undoubtedly bad policy, if the rice program constitutes vote- buying as the junta alleges, most of the worldтАЩs politicians deserve to be locked up.
The junta has also invited derision by inventing its own lexicon, in which military rule is тАЬThai-style democracy.тАЭ Deputy Foreign Minister Don Paramatwinai chided Mr. Russel last week for using the word тАЬcoup.тАЭ тАЬI insist that the military takeover in Thailand is not a coup, theoretically speaking,тАЭ he said. тАЬIt was in fact a revolution to install stability.тАЭ
The generals continue to close avenues to compromise and a return to democracy. As ThailandтАЩs friend and ally, the U.S. has a duty to warn that a show trial and imprisonment of Ms. Yingluck would undermine stability.
The countryтАЩs elite may not like the populism that Ms. Yingluck represents, but she remains popular with the majority of the population. The coup plotters justified their illegal overturning of the constitution as necessary for reconciliation, but they have now revealed it to be another naked grab for power.
Thank you BenCH
From the Nation: A case of double standards both Thai and American.
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politic ... 53319.html
no, the Coconuts article is a shallow attempt to try to cast aspersions on the current government based on non-existant "parallels" between the actual rice scheme implemented by the previous government on the one hand and suggestions about rubber support schemes that may or may not be implemented by the current or any future government on the other. the fact that it caught your eye says a lot more about you than it does about the quality of the article!Quote:
Originally Posted by Up2U
if you want fair play and lack of double standards then lets make a deal - if the current or any future government does implement a rubber support scheme lets get together two years after that and look at the real parallels between the two schemes
if you really want to look at the politics at work behind the scenes then perhaps you need to first remember that Yingluck was not impeached because she was the prime minister who introduced the rice scheme, and she was not impeached because she personally engaged in corrupt activities while the scheme was in operation, she was impeached for dereliction of duty in her role as chair of the committee monitoring the scheme. as the WSJ says the same charge could perhaps be laid against many other governments, but that does not inherently disqualify or disprove the current charge
if you want to argue about the validity of the actual impeachment process and whether it was politically motivated or not there are I think some valid points to be made but that is not the point being made by the article
the corruption cases relating to the rice scheme are a separate issue to the impeachment and if you want to argue that they too are politically motivated again there are I think some valid points to be made but that is not the point being made by the article either
if anyone is being fooled here I don't think it is me, and I don't think it is the junta doing the foolingQuote:
Originally Posted by Up2U
what is the old saying - there are none so blind ....
bkkguy
If you want to continue your hissy-fit about the Coconuts article, feel free, bkkguy. And your explication of the reason YL was "impeached" is quite enlightening.
But larger issues prevail -- and they are entirely political.
http://isaanrecord.com/2015/02/04/yingl ... -thailand/
As you must know, bkkguy, there is no such thing as "impeachment" in a parliamentary system. As you also must know, that is the system in place when YL was Prime Minister.
тАЬThis country is governed through a parliamentary system in which there is no impeachment motion as this is a characteristic of presidential systems. ItтАЩs like putting the wrong lid on the wrong potтАЭ, explains Dr. Wiboon. тАЬSo it is unclear what governance or legal principles [the NLA] is referring to.
You really can't divorce the "impeachment" from the fact that an illegitimate government is now in place, arbitrarily exercising its power, deriving its sovereignty solely from force of arms and ability to apply violence.
Reactions from the Northeast on Yingluck's impeachment.
http://isaanrecord.com/
I'd suggest you and Dr Wiboon read Chapter 10 (Sections 291-311) of the popular 1997 "People's Constitution" for example, then perhaps you and he could clarify whether you think this constitution did not include a procedure for impeachment or that this constitution did not establish a parliamentary system of governmentQuote:
Originally Posted by prospero
again are you claiming that the constitution that was in effect when she was prime minister did not include an impeachment clause or was not a parliamentary system? because just about every discussion of the legality of the impeachment proceedings I have read argued that the constitution (including its impeachment clauses) that covered Yingluck's term in office was abrogated by the junta after the coup and thus could not be used by the current parliament to justify impeachment of members of the previous parlimentQuote:
Originally Posted by prospero
Dr Wiboon does at least redeem himself at the end of the article:
bkkguyQuote:
Originally Posted by Dr Wiboon
Many parliamentary systems use "no confidence" votes to remove officeholders but you are right Chapter 10 Part 3 of the 1997 Constitution does provide an impeachment provision. But in almost the same breath you point out the Constitution is abrogated and as Dr Wiboon notes there is no legal provision in the temporary Constitution. Dr Wiboon does not have to redeem himself, it is Mr. Tul and Mr. Wasan(from the article) that are on shaky legal ground. I have read Chapter 10 and it's a big stretch to prove an impeachable offense. Bad policy, poor management, mismanagement, loosing billions, a system based on corruption (not Yingluck personally) are not impeachable. It's quite simple Yingluck was removed because she was (not is) a political adversary and shame on Sec Russel for reminding the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by bkkguy
U. S. alliance depends on democracy.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/general ... s-diplomat
That's no doubt today's joke. US diplomacy has never "depended" on democracy. Indonesia under dictators, The Philippines under a thieving murdering dictator, Taiwan under a crook gangster dictator, South Korea under a series of military dictators, Iraq under a megalomaniac dictator . . . where does the list end? US diplomacy and US foreign policy depends on US interests. With China rising rapidly from centuries of slumber and starting to enter alliances with Russia, the USA is not going to ditch Thailand as an ally, despite the rhetoric.
Perhaps the lady might enlighten the world about democracy in the US biggest ally in the Gulf Region, Saudi Arabia. Whilst she's at it, she might add what merits a US President cutting short a visit to the world's largest democracy, India, to attend the funeral of a Saudi dictator? And to bring along with him a huge panoply of high ranking present and former US mandarins?