Thank you for your response. That answered my question.
Russia certainly has an interesting history.
Just imagine how wonderful this World would be without all this conflict.
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We have a joke saying - Russian citizens who behaved badly will become Russians again in the next life ;-) Unlike the utterly patriotic Moses, I share the position of our great poet Alexander Pushkin, who said: "Of course, I despise my fatherland from head to toe - but it annoys me if a foreigner shares this feeling with me."
Just on the above.
Firstly, you say the current government, headed by Zelenskyy, was “installed” by the USA. However, most impartial observers thought the Ukrainian presidential election of 2019 was a reasonably free and fair. Not perfect, but pretty good for the region.
But whatever doubts there may have been about that election, every unbiased observer believes that it was far more fair than the last Russian election that gave Putin another term.
So it is a bit rich for a pro-Russia poster to be throwing shade to Ukraine on the matter of democratic legitimacy of the regime.
Secondly, Zelenskyy might not be overly popular with Russian speakers in eastern Ukraine, but in the election of 2019 he did better in eastern Ukraine than the incumbent, Poroshenko.
(Obviously, when I say eastern Ukraine, I mean minus the breakaway Luhansk/Dometsk areas, but that was not by choice of the Ukraine government).
Results from the election show that Poroshenko did best in western Ukraine, where there are more Ukrainian speakers.
Perhaps Russian speakers in eastern Ukraine were holding their nose and voting for the least worst option,but a larger proportion of the voters (in the second round) in eastern Ukraine got their favourite candidate elected, than in Ukrainian speaking western Ukraine.
So the Russian speakers are not completely politically powerless in Ukraine.
And sure enough, as expected, Russia is withdrawing soldiers back to their bases:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuMAPRE1PZs
Putin bluffed, NATO called him out on his bluff, hence now Putin is going home with his tail between his legs. I think he was hoping for more of a Crimea type response, but when NATO came out so united, he changed his mind about the invasion.
Moses, what was this about Putin always gets what he wants?
He always get what he wants.
US offered to sign agreement about rockets of small and middle radius, that they quit at times of Trump, US offered to Russians to check NATO bases in Poland and Romania. US and UK already withdrew military instructors from Ukraine. Most of countries closed embassies in Ukraine.
Because of US and EU hysteria about invasion economy of Ukraine is totally on the knees: investors took money back, credit bank rates for Ukraine are unbelievable high, all European leaders now pushing Ukraine to compile with Minsk protocol - thing what Russia had no chance to dream at past 8 years, moreover: US and UK now pushing Ukraine to give autonomy to east region and with probability of 90% it will lead to current regime failure.
Last Ukrainian parliament session failed because there were only 24 members of 440, rest ran in panic, even flight companies canceled flights to Ukraine, and insurance companies withdrew insurance for Ukrainian aircrafts, so aircrafts today are located in Spain instead of flying in Ukrainian sky.
You know: sometimes you may win war without to start it. Modern war doesn't need invasion.
Nah, I'm pretty confident this is called Putin getting put in his place on the world stage.
sure, sure... and proof of putting to the place is Canadian evacuation of diplomat families from Ukraine...
don't stop to dream, you don't need facts, Matt
but right now US destroys equipment in US embassy in the capital of Ukraine - Kyev, embassy is closed (Canadian is also closed)
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b2015012.html
If it is "to put in his place" then OK... as you say
All that proves is the Western governments think Putin is mentally unstable and unpredictable, so better safe than sorry.
as you wish :)
but fact is: Ukraine is now in panic and that panic has been created by American and European mouths. Ukraine is now in deepest financial crisis and that crisis has been created by American and European hands - even Ukrainian money are cheaper 12% just in one week - good time for Russia to buy Ukrainian goods.
Level of support of current Ukrainian president is around 20% (75% 2 years ago), and his party now is on 4th place (1st 2 years ago), absolute majority in parliament now will be changed to few back seats at 2023. Looks like somebody confused presidents in attempts "to put in his place"
And you can think what you want...
Planned Russian invasion of Ukraine was averted, Ukraine's territorial sovereignty remains intact, NATO's united resolve received a huge boost, and more than likely Ukraine will still become a NATO member sometime in the near future.
In turn, Russia spent a bunch of money to piss off ~130,000 soldiers by moving them close to the Ukraine border, and making them hang out in the cold winter weather before sending them back home without doing anything.
You forgot: declared by US "planned invasion'. Even Ukrainian president and Ukrainian minister of defense says that there is no sign of planned invasion.
What I can say? Biden is very old and probably has sometimes weird dreams.
well, I don't want to guess how much that panic will cost to American tax payers, to Canadian, British and so on... And if we will talk about Ukraine, then financial loss from American panic will cost to it more than cost of sanctions to Russia. It looks like joke - Russia is announced as aggressor, but flight are canceled to Ukraine, investors ran from Ukraine, embassies are closed in Ukraine.
In code-red situations foreign embassy's can be completely closed and gutted in less than 48 hours. It takes less time than that to reopen them again when the green light is given.
Regardless of why Putin is withdrawing his troops. it's just a good thing he is. I'm sure the soldiers on both sides of the border are feeling a great sense of relief...not to mention the civilians who are trying to raise their families and live normal lives.
It's easy for armchair quarterbacks to sit back and cheer their sides to victory - without having the foggiest clue what mortal combat really entails. Ironically, those who have served in the military, especially those with combat experience, tend to take a more subdued position.
But hang on surely you said the Russians weren't doing ANYTHING and this was all western fabrication and you simply had your own troops stationed in your own Country and the west was making this all up !
So are you saying now that "actually" yes it was all smart tactics of "war" ( but without war) by Putin after all and it wasn't just your own troops moving around and just sitting around in your own Country after all as you'd suggested to us ???
You wouldn't ever be telling lies to us now by any chance Moses would you ?? lol :-)
The government in Ukraine has just said they’re prepared to abjure joining NATO. That’s been Putin’s aim all along - no NATO state on Russia’s border. Meanwhile there’s been weeks of posturing by Western governments crying “wolf” about a Russian invasion of Ukraine which was never going to happen. Putin can’t risk the opprobrium of a war with the Russian population. However the kleptocrats who prop up and benefit from his regime may well find that the planning for economic sanctions by Western governments in the fake war preparations may still be used against them to their detriment
As former British Prime Minister Harold Macmillan commented when asked about the unpredictability of government, “Events, dear boy, events”
Only thing I can find is 21 hours ago Zelensky: saying Ukraine wants to be part of NATO still.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4_JUhMe0Go
No. Army parts always were on perimeter of western border of Russia. Memory and flashbacks from past, you know. There are a lot of articles about dislocations in Wiki. Just check it: Kursk, Orel, Belgorod, Yelnya and so on - all these cities now on the map of "dislocations" from propaganda. But they (troops) always were there, even at times of USSR. And that I exactly told about Yelnya many pages ago. So I say the same what I told before.
It is Matt who is talking about troops withdrawal. I'm writing only about "Putin always have what he wants".
...I really fear for the immediate future...The Us is led by a dementia patient and is weakened by toxic internal politiocs verging on civil war.....the UK has a mop haired bufoon at the helm with no shred of human decency....the EU as usual is all platitudes but totally toothless...merkel is no more....Macron is french...that says it all......on the other side we have a clever bright eyed totally focused fox able to mobilise 130,000 well armed men over a long weekend....scary...
That I predicted. Scholtz just gave offer from Ukraine to Putin about autonomy for East of Ukraine (special status law), it is 3rd step of Minsk protocol. If it will be implemented then everything will roll on right way, and then 8 years of waiting will be ended and will be relax in that drama.
So Ukraine is splitting into two countries now? Are the Russians going to build another big ass wall?
In essence, the line moved from middle of Germany to Eastern Ukraine? That works.
Sounds good, and NATO will expand to include Western Ukraine.
Google translation from Ukrainian to English, quote from today speech of leader of president's party in Ukraine in parliament:
Quote:
“Every month we incur losses of $2-3 billion, panic is provoked. We cannot borrow money in foreign markets: there are already crazy rates. In addition, importers refuse to work with us. Every day we count losses. When someone decides to move their embassy to Lviv, the news alone will cost Ukraine several hundred million dollars.”
"they don't get a vote" only if they aren't regions of Ukraine, you know... and I never said what any provinces of Ukraine are usurped - Russia has no armies in Ukraine, no one soldier.
PS in awaiting of Russian invasion Reuters started live from Ukrainian capital Kyev. Don't forget to bring popcorn.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_JRSioZZyQ
and British The Sun announced invasion tonight:
Attachment 12336
Fortunately, for the people of Ukraine, imports/exports should start improving incrementally once all of Putin's troops are removed from their border and life in Ukraine can resume to some level of normalcy. Markets and Investors don't like risk!
When a fox is intent on killing a hen it moves so quietly through the bush that you can hear a pin drop. If you see the same fox standing in the middle of a field in broad daylight growling loud enough to disrupt an entire valley, he's just selling woof tickets.
Unfortunately, for the loud fox, he'll have to be satisfied with a bone that one of the farmers toss him just to get him out of their sight, so life in the valley can return to normal again. Such is life!
It’s simplistic to think in terms of East versus West in today’s global multi-polar world
Shitty move of Putin in an interview to dare to bring even the mention of Nuclear weapons into the discussion when discussing how yes the West might be more powerful than Russia when allied militarily etc but Russia does have nuclear weapons which some of the smaller countries belonging to the allied side dont. That should be a topic just never to be thrown about so loosely and casually ( even as the veiled threat it obviously was meant to be) and as a veiled "reminder" of what we "could" do if we wanted type conversation. Very below the belt and not statesman like.
His quote ( I'll have to accept the translation as accurate as I dont speak russian of course) was something like :
"I want to reiterate , I have said this before but I would really like you to hear me this time and convey this message to your readers, viewers and internet users. Do you realise that if Ukraine joins NATO and decides to take Crimea back through military means the european Countries will automatically get drawn into a military conflict with Russia? Of course Nato's united potential and that of Russia are incomparable. We understand that, but we ALSO understand that Russia is one of the world leading Nuclear powers and is superior to many of those countries in terms of the number of modern nuclear force components. But there will be no winners, and you will find yourselves drawn into this conflict against your will."
He does go on to say that he doesn't want that and will try to find compromises etc but either way, to even drop the mere hint of any nuclear aspect to things is a low ball move and says plenty about his mindset perhaps, maybe he isn't so different to Trump after all and I've given him too much credit until now :-(
Let's just hope Putin has Perimeter turned off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jz3WGHCEP20