A very delicate phrase in the context of the relationship!Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterUK
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A very delicate phrase in the context of the relationship!Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterUK
Maybe not necessary to take a course in cross-cultural communication to resolve this issue. Maybe just treat the boy with the same amount of respect that he gives you, just as you would respond to the smile, or lack of, displayed by a vendor when buying something in a shop. The sex industry is ultimately a business, a commercial enterprise,though we tend to downplay that because of the emotional investment we sometimes make. If customer displays an ordinary level of politeness, he should not feel troubled by a vendor's outburst. Also, it might be good to keep in mind that some of these boys are quite good actors who can easily play whatever role they think is necessary in order to increase their fee.
Or quaint even...Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad the Impala
Charming nonetheless.Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterUK
cnx4shan
Kindly reply to my question.Quote:
Does he only behave properly to older THAIS not "at the bottom of the social ladder", or also to farangs in a similar position? If "Thai boy whores" do not apply the Thai standard of behaviour to farangs, then why should farangs apply the Thai standard to them??
Thanks.
IтАЩve only read through about half of the posts in this thread, so I wonтАЩt claim to be absorbing all the responses in my comment. I also broke off an incisor and went to the dentist who announced we would need to make a three-tooth bridge to replace said incisor at B 25,500. He shot me full of Novocain and then came at me with a pair of dental pliers employed to extract/excavate the root of the said incisor. I have since applied a Chilean Cabernet Sauvignon and a fair amount of Hennessy without mixers. Right now the world is a wonderful place, but I fear it may not always remain so.
Here goes. If you are inclined to think I am a pompous prick, do not read this. I will probably support your view.
Once again, here goes.
There seems to be an underlying assumption that тАЬthey allтАЭ do things in some sort of compliance with an innate predisposition to act in a certain way. And, the тАЬthey allтАЭ could refer to Asians, Thais, gogo boys or whoever.
Thai gogo boys are very likely to come from the lowest socio-economic element of the Thai population and there are undoubtedly some fairly pervasive commonalities, but they are nonetheless still individuals with unique sets of predisposing factors influencing their behavior in broad terms and their manner of interacting with farangs more specifically.
Prostitutes, whores, or whatever (denigrating) term you want to use, in Amsterdam, NY, Tokyo or Thailand are as different from one another as a middle-class resident of Long Island is from a bank manager in Nakhon Sawan. Most of the guys you find in Thai gogo bars started out as unsophisticated country bumpkins who, if they lasted very long, developed an unfortunate sophistication in accordance with how they were treated by the farang customers with whom theyтАЩve dealt.
IтАЩve had three long term companions over the years. I found each working in a bar. I know some people pride themselves on forming relationships with guys who supposedly never worked in bars, but letтАЩs face it, if you connected with a Thai guy in whatever circumstances, it wasnтАЩt due to Kismet. You found him because he was aiming to be found.
Some guys work in the bars to make short-term money and have no inclination to go beyond whatever each day brings them.
All my тАЬfriendsтАЭ initially had a rough, defensive veneer, developed to protect themselves, but they disliked the whole idea of working in a gogo bar and were looking for a permanent liaison that would remove them from that life.
The behavior of someone just out for a quick baht and someone looking for something longer lasting is not the same. The behavior of someone who has grown up in an impoverished loving family is different from someone who had limited parenting from missing or sick or drug-addicted or perpetually drunk parents. Someone who grew up in a small, closely knit village behaves differently from someone who grew up in a Bangkok shanty.
THEY do not all act in some monolithic way. Seemingly irrational, erratic, counter-productive behavior displayed by someone you have offтАЩd a few times is not some demonstration of a universal trait of all Thais.
The one thing I have found to be almost universally true is that the more often I interact with a particular Thai man (and that implies there is a degree of тАЬchemistryтАЭ between us), the more the defensive, guarded, totally self-centered, fabricated behavior disappears and the more rational, sincerely caring, accommodative, honest behavior emerges.
Until proven otherwise, any interaction you have with a Thai gogo boy is assumed by him to be of limited duration and something to be exploited to the maximum. ThatтАЩs really a very rational attitude on his part. You may think youтАЩre something special because he greets you with a big smile, remembering you from previous visits, but that still puts you in a not very exclusive group.
Yes, he may think fondly of you as someone who was generous and kind and fun to be with, but youтАЩre still first and foremost a source of income. Once again, thatтАЩs an exceedingly rational attitude on his part. To think of you or any customer in any romantic sense would be self-destructive and self-defeating.
My current (and I hope тАЬforeverтАЭ) friend has shed many defensive, self-protective layers over the years. But it took years and there will probably always be a slight feeling that something might jeopardize our relationship. I would like to say we are totally equal in our relationship, but we are not. I still hold the power to affect a more damaging veto to тАЬusтАЭ being тАЬusтАЭ than does he. His beauty and my financial support brought us together. Both are potentially wasting assets, but my money is probably going to last longer than his youthful beauty. Marriage, at least in some cultures, brings stickiness to a relationship that is absent here.
But we have come further along than might be expected for a fairly young Thai male and a somewhat less young farang, one of whom is (troll alert!!!) still the nicest, sexiest, sweetest person around and the other of whom means well.
I totally forget what it was that I set out to say, but I think I meant that Thais behave individually like everyone else. Boys who work in bars are good at making you feel loved and important, but you canтАЩt realistically expect them to see you as more than a possible quick source of money, even if you see them 3 or 4 times. If youтАЩre ever going to form a long term relationship that is based on something more than a squirt of cum and a couple thousand baht, ITтАЩS GOING TO TAKE YEARS, not a few overnight get-togethers revolving around an off fee paid to a bar.
Good night and sweet dreams. IтАЩm going to lie down now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by x in pattaya
Not quite sure what you're trying to say here. I hope it's not that all Thai boys are looking for some financial advantage when they form a relationship with a foreigner.
That is simply not true. I have many Western friends who have Thai boyfriends that could buy and sell them many times over.
[quote=Beach Bunny]Quote:
Originally Posted by "x in pattaya":1bjimsgs
Not quite sure what you're trying to say here. I hope it's not that all Thai boys are looking for some financial advantage when they form a relationship with a foreigner.
That is simply not true. I have many Western friends who have Thai boyfriends that could buy and sell them many times over.[/quote:1bjimsgs]
Of course ... though I would be hesitant to endorse the word "many." I simply meant that there are Thais, for whatever reason, who are open to forming a relationship with a farang. Some might strike up a conversation in the "stacks" at a university library or during the break of a Bangkok Symphony Orchestra production or in a Silom cafe or by working briefly in a gogo bar, depending on what they feel is going to work for them and what their circumstances permit.
Someone who chooses to work a month or two as a gogo boy carries with him a certain stigma, but it is still an unfortunate means to a perceived happy end, and does not mean that the guy is necessarily a hardened, insensitive, gold-digging underworld character. My friend is an intelligent individual who now runs a business and has taught himself a great deal about computers in a short time. That potential was always there and our "relationship" has enabled him to exploit his own abilities. The only realistic road open to him was a gogo bar, but that doesn't mean he's somehow inferior to someone who was born with certain advantages.
His intelligence and common sense in developing a business are an important aspect in my appreciation of him. I was attracted to him because of his looks, but it's who he really is underneath that holds my attention. Thinking of him as a former gogo boy would be a real injustice.
I still think you're over-generalizing.
My own bf had never been with a farang before he met me, and was never particulalry interested in farang. It took me months of courting for his interest to be piqued (yes, 'piqued"...not "peaked").
Of course, there are tens of thousands of Thai boys who specifically seek out farangs -- either for financial reasons, or for the chance to live abroad, or simply for reasons of attraction. There are lots of exceptions, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beach Bunny
There are always exceptions to every generality, but I would still argue your circumstances are exceptional ... not that that makes them any less genuine. In some respects we all have to win over our mates no matter how advantageous and desirable we may find ourselves. :clown:
"tens of thousands" maybe in an historical view, but at any given moment in time, I imagine the number is considerably smaller.
I do understand the difference between peaked and piqued. Hopefully his/your interest won't peak even as your relationship enters its third decade.
I am truly sloshed on Novocain, Cabernet and Hennessy and thus must withdraw for the time being.
PS (you can never really shut a drunk up until he's unconscious)
I do understand that there is a difference between finding someone of your own age and with similar interests and compatible background, compared to ending up in a relationship of convenience with a young man who needs me to get ahead in the world. I would have preferred the former, which I assume more accurately describes your relationship, but circumstances prevented that from ever happening. What I have is not a match made in any normal world, but it works for us. Most of my life has been anything but normal, so why change now? If your relationship is truly as you describe it, my congratulations on achieving something few have.