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There you are, Smiles - because you know I care
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http://andolfatto.blogspot.com/2015/11/ ... nking.html
There you are, Smiles - because you know I care
:-o
I just discovered this thread. I'm almost speechless.... I never thought in a million years that I'd hear this topic discussed here... Yea, this is probably the wrong crowd to discuss anything as "futuristic" as.... cellular phones.... laptops... internet.... etc... LOL It's like hearing your great *great* grandparents (who used crank and rotary phones) debating about which is the best smartphone.... the iPhone6sтАО or the Note5.... Kinda like hearing horses talk. ha ha I've heard that some people say that that "internet thing" is really going to become popular one day. ;)
Bitcoin is money. It's electronic cash. And it's also its own currency. There is no safer money in the world. There's also no safer and easier and cheaper way to transmit money in the world -- no matter whether you are sending $6 to your friend you're having lunch with... or sending $60 million half way around the planet. It's as fast and easy as sending a text message.
Remember the first time you ever heard of Facebook....? And you thought, "That sounds so silly. Who would ever want that? It'll never catch on." Then... a couple years later, it was as if it had been there since the beginning of time. From the oldest to the youngest people, all over the world, everyone suddenly knew about Facebook. Well, the same thing is happening with Bitcoin now. Bitcoin is definitely the future of money.
By the way, the truth is... *cash* is the currency of choice for drug dealers and crime..... not bitcoin. Just because *cash* is used for crime more than any other form of money... Does that mean you should avoid using cash...? No. That's very flawed logic, and just silly.
Also, when you hear about bitcoin heists.... they are talking about the *theft* of bitcoin. Yes, obviously, since bitcoin is essentially "electronic cash"... It's untraceable. So.... just like cash... or gold bars.... It's bound to be a target of robbery. Now, logically, if the bank that holds your money or gold.... steals it from you... You don't blame the *money*. You don't blame the *gold*. You blame the bank. Or..... Blame yourself for being so irresponsible to have not checked out the bank to know if they were trustworthy or not. Or..... Blame yourself for trusting any bank at all.
It is for these reasons that new software has been created which are the most advanced sophisticated security systems ever invented. Bitcoin software is setting the standard for cutting edge security systems of the future.
Also... Bitcoin isn't really new any more. It's tried and true and becoming more adopted every day. The Pattaya Beer Garden accepts bitcoin. The 5 star gay-owned restaurant called, Eat Me, in Bangkok... accepts bitcoin. Several gay sex massage shops in Bangkok accept bitcoin.... including Ban Tewa, and The Prince. There's already at least one bitcoin ATM in Bangkok. It's spreading fast. See http://coinmap.org
Another important point is: If you're using bitcoin to send money from one place to another.... Or if you're using bitcoin and spending it.... You don't need to worry about the changing value. Just (1) Buy the Bitcoin, (2) Send or Spend the Bitcoin, and (3) Sell the Bitcoin. If you do all of these things within one day.... or a few days... the value won't likely change.... so you don't have to worry about that. If you're curious, you can always check the value here: http://preev.com/btc/thb/source:bitfinex
Bitcoin transactions are free. ( Well, technically, the suggested optional "donation for processing the transaction" is approximately $0.03 no matter whether you are sending $1 or $100,000,000 dollars. )
It's crazy easy to get into Bitcoin.... and to use it. All you have to do is install one free app on your phone. It's called Airbitz. It is the best bitcoin wallet by far. I don't recommend any others. I can elaborate on all the reasons, if anyone is interested. You can install it from here: https://airbitz.co/bitcoin-wallet/
For anyone who would like to play with it.... or to learn more about it.... or just for fun.... let me know. Any member of this forum who asks me to, and who installs the Airbitz app... will send them $20 via bitcoin.
You can go buy yourself some lunch or dinner or beers or whatever at Pattaya Beer Garden using your bitcoin. Just bring your phone with you. ..... or a massage at Ban Tewa massage spa.... or dinner at Eat Me restaurant.
I forgot to mention why businesses love to accept bitcoin.
The transaction fees are practically zero. ( As I said, it's an "optional donation" of about US$0.03 to instantly send a transaction whether it's for $1 or $100,000,000 or more. )
There's no 3% or 4% bank credit card extortion fees. And before you say, "But I don't pay those. The merchant does." Give it a rest. Where do the merchants get that money? They raise their prices. And YOU pay it. Wake up. Every merchant owner can tell you that what I'm saying is true. It's just like if the mafia were extorting a 5% cut out of every business in town. YOU would be the one paying it.
The other major benefit for businesses is... Transactions are absolutely irreversible. There is no such thing as a "charge back". A charge back is when the bank reverses the transaction, effectively *stealing* the money back away from the merchant. You can think of it as basically the same thing as shoplifting. And believe me, whether they even realize it or not, those charge backs typically cost a business another 9-12% of their revenue.
Bitcoin has no charge backs. It's absolutely impossible to do one. For businesses, this is huge. This means a total of about 12% or 13% more profit for them... when you eliminate their costs for credit card fees *and* lost revenue from charge backs. Not to mention... saving them countess labor hours of having to deal with the paperwork of trying to constantly be fighting those charge backs.
For customers, it just needs to be thought of as, "the same as cash". This means... You must try to always deal with reputable firms. ( Or use an escrow service if needed for very large purchases. ) The same as you would if you were using cash.
Businesses can still issue a full refund, of course. It just can't be forced or extorted out of them in the fraudulent manner that most charge backs happen.
With bitcoin, if you send $300 to a hotel for booking a room.... ( via the app on your phone while you're riding in a taxi in the UK... and the hotel is in Pattaya..... It's just the same as if you dropped off $300 in cash at the front desk of that hotel. You're not going to ever get that money back.... unless the hotel sends a new transaction to refund it. Same as with cash.
Businesses and all sorts of People love cash.
Businesses and all sorts of People love bitcoin.
By the way, businesses who are concerned about the changing value of bitcoin can "cash out" by converting their bitcoin into Dollars or Euros or Thai Baht or whatever their local fiat currency is...... instantly with the click of a button. For example, There are three major Bitcoin <--> Thai Baht exchange companies in Bangkok alone. They are very reputable and excellent. They serve the entire country of Thailand via their web sites and by Thai bank account transfers... or the Thai ATM networks. For example, I can send them $1 or $100,000 or whatever amount.... in bitcoin.... and instantly ( within about 60 minutes ), the money will either be in my Thai bank account as Thai Baht... or available for anonymous pickup at any ATM in Thailand. So using the "cardless transaction" button and a special code number the site gives you... you can withdraw the bitcoin --- now as thai baht --- anonymously... without any ATM card..... from any ATM anywhere in Thailand. I think their fee the company charges is 30 or 35 baht. By the way, you can buy *or* sell.... get bitcoin for baht ( or get baht for bitcoin ) with any of these companies. Also, there are tons of bitcoin exchanges ( as such companies are called ) in nearly every country in the world.... especially in the US, UK, EU, and all the Asian countries too. The largest one in the world is now a company based in Hong Kong called Bitfinex.
Welcome to the 21st century.
The company in Bangkok I recommend most is: http://coins.co.th
Another great one is: http://bx.in.th
But yeah..... If you're paying a total of more than about 30 baht TOTAL.... to send money to/from any two points on this planet.... You're getting ripped off big time. Western Union fees are typically in the 9% - 10% range. ( Famously, the poorer the country, the more they extort. So in Africa, for example, Western Union fees average about 12%. Yeah. The banksters are evil criminal thieves. But you already knew that. :) )
Feel free to ask me any questions about any of this.... here or by PM.
I can also happily change just about any amount of cash you'd need to change into or out of bitcoin at any time.... between thai baht, us $, euros, or whatever. Zero fees. Just cause I'm a nice guy. :) ( and because I can touch one button to use coins.co.th faster than ordering a starbucks )
If anyone would like to get their business set up to accept bitcoin, no matter what type of business it is, I can also do that for you free too. It takes about 5 minutes to talk you through getting that all set up and working. You don't need any banking or applications or forms. It's a simple free app. ( I've also seen many money boys advertising that they accept bitcoin.... as well as many sex massage shops. )
My offer stands that.... I'll send $20 to anyone who asks me to. Just install this free app and let me know... http://airbitz.co
Quick word of caution as to what bruce says. To each their own, but personally, I would never trust a web wallet with my funds like bruce is recommending. Sure, use them to exchange to/from bitcoin, but I would never actually leave funds there.
I also don't like client-side signing, to the point I refuse to implement it for my clients. I know it's touted as some awesome security measure, but that's a little misleading. The reasoning for it is because site owners kept running off with everyone's money, so the community came up with client-side signing which prevents that. However, it also passes the security aspect to the end-user. All it takes is opening one wrong e-mail or visiting one wrong site, and your funds will be gone shortly.
Again, I can recommend https://electrum.org/ (no, I didn't develop that one -- I do more commercial software).
Sorry, Matt. I disagree with much of what you just said. There's a lot of confusion and misunderstanding.
First, I agree. Never trust or use a web wallet. I strongly recommend *against* using any type of web wallet. I never recommend a web wallet under any circumstances.
The wallet I recommend is a phone/tablet app called Airbitz ( http://airbitz.co). In short, it is light years ahead of Electrum, Mycelium, Blockchain-dot-info, or any of the others. ( The lead developers of all four of these wallets are friends of mine, by the way. We chat in specialized forums every day. ) Anyway, the security of Airbitz truly is phenomenal. It's so far advanced that it has left all the others in the dust. Truly, please don't try to discuss it until you've researched it enough to understand how Airbitz security works... and why it is light years ahead of anything else. I'd be happy to supply you with lots of great material to read and videos to watch that are specifically about Airbitz technology, what it does, and how it works. WARNING though: This topic will become extremely technical very quickly.
I have no idea what you mean by "client side signing". I've never heard that term used. All transaction signing must be client-side, by definition. Otherwise, you are using a web wallet.
Perhaps you meant, "multi-signature transactions". That *is* something that has been touted as some great security feature. But I disagree with it. ( For those who don't know, the analogy is..... it's like having a checking account where each check requires two or more signatures. ) I disagree with it being touted as a general security feature because --- although it's true that the "banker" can't run away with your money. It's also true that the "banker" *can* prevent you from accessing your money. Screw that! Anyway, this is all applicable only to web site wallets anyway. And, as I said, I strongly recommend that nobody use a web wallet.
Airbitz is not a web wallet.
Nobody, including the publisher of the Airbitz app, gets any information whatsoever.
No name or information about you is ever asked for, nor needed to create a wallet.
When a wallet is created, you select a username and a password.
Even your username and password are never sent to Airbitz.
The app then creates a wallet on your phone.
The wallet is immediately strongly encrypted.
Only an *encrypted* copy of your wallet is sent to a network of distributed p2p servers ( not to Airbitz ).... as an automatic automated backup.
Again, it's strongly encrypted first, so nobody ever has access to it.... ever ever.
And they are not Airbitz servers. They are a huge network of independent decentralized distributed p2p servers.... for a backup. It's impossible that they could all go down. They don't have the same owners and they're located all over the globe.
If Airbitz company disappeared, and all of Airbitz servers disappeared, your Airbitz Wallet would work exactly as it does now. In fact, users would never notice Airbitz company was gone.
Airbitz servers are not used by Airbitz app for any wallet functionality.
( This can *not* be said of *any* of the other wallets, by the way. )
You can, at any time, install Airbitz on other phones or tablets. You can even "log in" with the same username and password and access the same wallet.
How is this magic possible?
A hash is created of your username and password you entered. An encrypted copy of it is sent to request that your wallet be "restored" to the device your now using. That encrypted copy of it is summoned and brought in to your device. And your username and password are used ( only locally ) to unencrypt your wallet. Now, for example, you have full access to your wallet on *all three* your Samsung Note5, your old iPhone, and your new iPad.
Meanwhile, this all happens instantly and magically. All you did was enter your username and password.
In fact, Airbitz *invented* "One Touch 2FA" technology. ( one touch 2 factor authentication)
I assure you that every possible attack vector or loss scenario has been thought through and analyzed extremely intensely and addressed. There is nothing connected to the Internet that is safer. Your wallet, private keys, transaction history, everything is always encrypted and never leaves your phone unencrypted.
The app even protects the users from themselves.... in a hundred ways.
You can create a wallet. Receive some money. And then have your phone stolen. All within minutes. And you won't have lost a penny. ( except the cost of your stolen phone itself, naturally )
I just went to install AirBitz on my tablet, and it wanted access to -- Identity, Contacts, Location, Photo/Media/Files, Camera, Bluetooth connection information.
Another turn off. Why would it possibly need access to my photos, location, and identity? heh, get real. You might want to ask your friends to change that, considering on their site they preach about privacy and security so much. I can understand the camera to send to a QR code, but that should be about it. They don't need access to anything else for a bitcoin wallet, unless they're doing data collection, and selling that data to marketing companies, which I'm assuming is where their profits are.
Maybe they mean something different by "client side encryption", but generally that means Javascript based signing of transactions, which mean web wallet. And Javascript based signing is inherently insecure for multiple reasons. I know everyone loves to preach about it, but again, it's misleading. i'll admit, it does prevent site owners from stealing user's funds, which is the entire reason it became so popular. However, it's not secure, and again, to the point I refuse to implement it upon client request. All it takes is one client to have funds stolen, they blast me publicly, it ranks high in Google, and I'm fucked for landing new contracts, so I only ever use the best security measures available.
And they're passing private keys around on a P2P network? I don't care if they're encrypted or not, you don't do that. I don't want my private keys floating around on dozens of different servers, even if they are encrypted.
Trust me bruce, unless you happen to be on the core dev team, I can pretty much promise I know the bitcoin protocol better than you.
I just realized that you might have been referring to the Currency Exchange Companies I recommend.... They are currency exchanges *only*. Use them *only* to exchange currency. Although it is possible to leave money on deposit in your account there...... Matt's correct. DON'T DO THAT. Don't Ever Leave Money on Deposit in a Currency Exchange Site.
They might call it a wallet feature. Or just a balance on deposit. In either case, never keep any money ( be it bitcoin, dollars, baht, or whatever ) on deposit with *any* web site.
Using a currency exchange is fine. But don't leave your money there one minute longer than you need to..... Do your exchanging and take your money out of there.
When you go to the big yellow Krungsri Currency Exchange window at the top of Boyztown.... After you do your currency exchange, you don't leave your money there with the window teller..... You don't ask them to hold onto your money for you. Do you?
Think of bitcoin exchanges the same way. It's a currency exchange. Change your money and get it out of there.
ALWAYS KEEP YOUR BITCOIN SAFELY IN YOUR BITCOIN WALLET
That's Airbitz http://airbitz.co
EXCHANGE YOUR BITCOIN FOR $ тВм ┬г ┬е тВй AND BACK AT A BITCOIN EXCHANGE
That's Coins http://coins.co.th
or BX http://bx.in.th
or contact me and I'll do it for you free
or do a Google search and find the most reputable bitcoin exchange in your country
Ask me if you need help finding a great bitcoin exchange in your country.
Here's one list to start your search: http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/markets/info
In the USA, for example, there are some huge bitcoin exchange services..... like:
Coinbase https://coinbase.com/?r=4ff3c74e3518490 ... erral-link
( referral link, we both make a little money )
Circle https://www.circle.com/en
But again, buy or sell bitcoin there.... then immediately get your bitcoin and dollars out.... and send them TO your own Airbitz wallet on your phone or tablet.
The more I think about it, the worse of a wallet AirBitz is. I'm assuming they're using HD BIP32 wallets, correct? That's a good thing, but also means all your funds are available with a piece of text like this:
Someone gets that piece of text, and your funds are gone. Granted, that private key can't be brute forced, so as long as you keep it safe, nobody can ever touch your funds. So you're saying they encrypt this private key using the user's password, then fire it off it a P2P network. Has to be two-way encryption, so I'm assuming AES256 or AES512 maybe?Quote:
xprv9s21ZrQH143K2JF8RafpqtKiTbsbaxEeUaMnNHsm5o6wCW 3z8ySyH4UxFVSfZ8n7ESu7fgir8imbZKLYVBxFPND1pniTZ81v Kfd45EHKX73
That's a very stupid and dangerous thing to do, and more than likely, many people will have their funds stolen. One of the nodes on that P2P network is going to be an intelligent Russian hacker. They're going to brute-force the keys, and sometimes people do things like use "password" for their password, which means their funds will be gone. Majority of people don't use strong passwords.
Matt, Matt, Matt.... I've been racking my brain for a few minutes trying to come up with the most polite, respectful, loving way to say this.... And I just don't know any other way to say it...
Your knowledge about bitcoin, the bitcoin network, bitcoin protocol, bitcoin security, and internet security in general ....is *extremely* limited.
I honestly don't mean that to to sound arrogant. I absolutely love helping people learn, I love people asking questions, and helping us all get to the bottom of things and get the correct answers.... But, I do have a problem with people presenting themselves as "experts".... or "I know more than you do"..... when they clearly DO NOT.... and then giving the public bad advice.... or at least, incomplete advice, misleading advice, or contradicting the correct advice. That's when I am forced to speak up.
With all due respect..... Everyone else... Please ignore what Matt is saying.
Matt, I am the creator and organizer of more than 140 IRC-like chat channels. About half of them are dedicated to bitcoin technology. Members of my chat channels include: world renowned cryptography experts, bitcoin network and protocol experts, bitcoin security experts, and internet security experts, as well as.... the founders, the lead devs, and the *entire* dev teams, and even the support teams, of all 4 wallets mentioned above, for example... as well as bitcoin exchange owners, and hundreds of bitcoin startup CEOs... ALL are members. The chat channels are extremely active 24 hours a day. Members are all over the world. Most are also my personal friends.
If you are sincere about wanting to learn about this stuff, I'd be willing to add you to one group. I *guarantee* that you'll learn a *lot*. If on the other hand, you're just too lazy to do a google search and/or are just trolling us... then nevermind.
First, about the app'a permission requirements... Come on. You must know that there are major issues with ALL apps.... in that the *descriptions* of app permissions very often dont match the actual reason why they are needed. This is plaguing the entire smartphone world. I think that very soon Google (Android) and Apple (iPhone) will fix this problem. All they need to do is.... Give all app developers a new field to fill in for the app store, called, "Why we need this permission".
In the meantime, we must either do a google search to find out why, or ask the developers themselves why. Most app publishers have a web page or blog entry specifically to answer that question: "Why does your app need these permissions?"
You have yet to give any type of technical response, so I'll go under the assumption your knowledge is quite limited. Have you ever written your own wallet software? Your own node software? Have you ever had to deal with Russian hackers on a near hourly basis? I have.Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce_nyc
Sorry, but I'm pretty confident I know what I'm talking about.
I've been using bitcoin for about 2.5 years, and never had a dollar stolen. My clients have never had a dollar stolen for about 18 months now. Trust me though, the hackers are ruthless in this market, and extremely skilled. You quite obviously don't know what you're in for, especially considering you actually posted the AirBitz web site URL here, which means it's going to get ranked in Google. I'm sure your friends will appreciate being associated with SGT.
If you don't want to believe me, I really don't care. Ok, I do, because I want to see bitcoin succeed. However, you quite obviously don't have a clue what you're talking about. You're just a marketing machine spitting out punch lines like "most advanced sophisticated security systems ever invented", which is quite obviously totally fucken false. You don't actually understand cryptography, encryption protocols, server security, the bitcoin protocol, or anything of that nature. However, I do.
I'm done with this thread. I have work to do.