"I apologise for the two consonants missing from the final sentence in my post above."
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"I apologise for the two consonants missing from the final sentence in my post above."
Well, if the sole objective were to annex more of Ukraine, I would have thought the best approach would be a swift troop build up and invasion. That gives other countries less time to ship weapons to Ukraine.
The end result would be the same, but giving Ukraine time to prepare would mean more Russian casualties.
So seeing how far NATO will go with appeasment must be a big part of this.
No doubt about it.
This was a NATO Cohesion Test.
Ukraine is one of the most corrupt countries in the world and they're a long way from being asked to join NATO for that reason. It will probably take decades (not years) for Ukraine to transform itself into a democratic law abiding state - and in the mean time, they will just have to live with Russia breathing down their necks. Putin knows this full-well. NATO knows he knows it. And he knows that NATO knows that he knows it.
Anyway, this is all really starting to look like Putin bluffed, NATO called him on his bluff, and now Putin is embarrassed to look like a fool.
Kinda like the Cuban missile crisis when the Soviet naval ships were up against the US blockade. Soviets talked a big game, but at the end of the day were just lieing about how powerful they actually were and were bluffing.
Wasn’t there though? I vaguely recall something about OPEC+, Saudi prince and obvious miscalculation a few years back… we can go further back to the closure of the Moscow stock exchange, or more recent “sanctions are good for Russia” rhetoric how Russian cheeses are now much superior to the European originals: Enjoy Parmigiano Voronezhiano and Brie de Ufa. I couldn’t care less about any politicians - I’m just surprised at the extent of support that he is enjoying among the groups he had marginalized. Stockholm syndrome, anyone? Really, KHU IZ PUTIN?
Looks like you can read Russian, visit any retail food shop and check amount of cheese sorts from all continents. For example perekrestok.ru From Swiss in Europe to Argentina in Latin America. Closure of stock exchange is also only in your wet dreams, friend: moex.com
and last one: it's not important "who is Putin", most important: he still has majority of Russian votes... if I remember correct, exactly that world call "democracy"
As soon as you attack Ukraine I'm going to send a peace keeping force to 'protect' Taiwan.
That's a good idea. I'll get some of our tugs to tow our aircraft carrier there as a gesture of friendship.
Matching suits and ties...how spiffy...but Xi needs to ease up on the pork chops and do a few sit ups. Maybe the Olympics will inspire him.
Someone should feed them both some of that polonium tea. Make the world a better place.
Because it would be completely impossible to debate with you about such a position.
For example, if Putin tucks tail and moves all soldiers back to their bases away from Ukraine without invading, and we say "see he doesn't always get what he wants" you will reply with, "this was his plan all along, you guys are just too stupid to understand his intellect".
Same as all these idiots who keep saying Trump is playing some 5D game of chess, when in reality he can't even manage to play a game of checkers without accidentally swallowing a bunch of the pieces.
Fortunately, or unfortunately depending on what your view is, there has never once been a powerful leader in history that's always got what he wanted. If he did, he'd be ruling the world.
Putin's lifelong ambition to rebuild the Soviet Empire under his rule is no mystery to anyone. I'm not saying his ambitions are good or bad, I'm just saying this is a reality. If he always got what he wanted as you insinuated, this would already have been accomplished. So, in reality, he's never got what he really wants.
Can you imagine if Xi ever got everything he really wanted? He'd be doing a Genghis Khan act on all our asses.
So did Hitler… so did Trump… It’s not how many votes they got, but rather how they brainwashed people.
Also, I do not dream of ill to anyone, including Putin. I just believe that Russian people deserve better. In the first 8 years Putin enjoyed a tremendous influx of wealth due to extremely high oil prices. He could have used it to advance education, science, healthcare and make Russia so prosperous that not only former Soviet republics, but former Eastern Block countries would try to get back in alliance with Russia. Instead, he put all the resources to create an autocratic state by strengthening police and army and then started to force its neighbors into submission. As the result, talent continued to flee Russia. Then, he instead recruited corrupt politicians from the West.
As for the MOEX, I was talking about the RTS crash of 2008 following which it had to be absorbed by MICEX by 2011. So, two became one.
Look, I have someone who thinks like you in my own family. My brother used to live in Russia and seems to get his “facts” from the same sources as you. It does not change how I feel about him - our discussions about politics seem more like teasing than arguing. It’s a bit easier, as he no longer lives in Russia. Had he still been there, I would be worried and concerned. I love him dearly and would not want him to raise his family under constant barrage of propaganda.
Is the tension at the Ukrainian border really about the expansion of Russia…or the expansion of NATO?
Surfcrest
Both, really. This all started back in 1991 when Ukraine declared independance at which time they began drifting to the West. The momentum towards the West then increased after the 2014 election, at which point Putin decided to annex Crimea and start a proxy war in Eastern Ukraine using Russian seperatists.
Ukraine natually got fairly nervous at this so asked, "yo NATO, mind if we join you guys so we can tell the Russians to fuck off?", to which Putin said, "uh uh, you ain't becoming friends with my enemy" and proceeded to send over 140,000 soldiers to Ukraine's border. And now we are where we are.
Remember, majority of Ukrainians remember full well what happened to their countrymen especially under Stalin's rule due to his agriculture policies, hence have no desire whatsoever to rejoin mother Russia.
Obviously, NATO wouldn't mind having Ukraine as a member. At the same time, if Putin had just left Ukraine alone, they probably wouldn't be so hell bent on joining NATO. But no, after the Russian stooge got the boot in the 2014 election, Putin just had to go meddle in Ukraine with military force, so...
Matt. You for sure should make fact-check before to publish that bullshit here.
Russia got Crimea after disorders in Ukraine when nationalists shoot down parliament and pushed legally elected president out of country and called him not legitimate (Feb 22).
It was March 2014.
At March 11 parliament of Crimea declared independence from Ukraine, at March 14 parliament announced referendum, at March 16 was referendum and after it parliament send letter to Russia for to join Russian Federation as Autonomous republic. And at March 18 was signed agreement btw Crimea and Russia.
The referendum asked local populations whether they wanted to join Russia as a federal subject, or if they wanted to restore the 1992 Crimean constitution and Crimea's status as a part of Ukraine. The official result from the Autonomous Republic of Crimea was a 97 percent vote for integration of the region into the Russian Federation with an 83 percent voter turnout, and within the local government of Sevastopol there was also a 97 percent vote for integration of the region into the Russian Federation with an 89 percent voter turnout.
The United Nations Development Program conducted a series of polls in Crimea between 2009 and 2011 about the question of leaving Ukraine and joining Russia with a sample size of 1,200:
Quarter Yes No Undecided
2009 Q3 70% 14% 16%
2009 Q4 67% 15% 18%
2010 Q1 66% 14% 20%
2010 Q2 65% 12% 23%
2010 Q3 67% 11% 22%
2010 Q4 66% 9% 25%
2011 Q4 65.6% 14.2% 20.2%
more information https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_C...tus_referendum
Elections in Ukraine was at the end of May 2014 when all these nazi took power and forbade some parties for to be sure what no one serious opposing competitor may win.
Same shit, Moses -- it all happened at the same time. The Ukrainians decided to kick the Russian stooge out of Kiev, which prompted Putin to annex Crimea and start a proxy war in Eastern Ukraine. This understandably scared Ukraine, hence they began agressively pursuing membership into NATO.
For the most part, Ukraine seemed quite content being a buffer state between Russia and the West. That is until Putin decided to move into Ukraine with military force. Now understandably, Ukraine has changed its tune and badly wants into NATO, so they can live in peace without the constant threat of Russian aggression.
NATO will never ban Ukraine from becoming a member, as that defeats the entire reason NATO was initially formed. If Putin wants to risk plunging Russia into a 20 year economic depression over this, that's on him.
There is no Russian military forces in Ukraine till now. Even Boris Johnson agreed with that few days ago when he spoke about sanctions: "UK will implement sanction as soon as first Russian soldier will step to Ukrainian territory"
https://www.theguardian.com/world/li...iv-putin-orban
Russia annexed Crimeia, and the separatists in Eastern Ukraine are being supported by the Russian military. That's more than enough for any country to worry about its territorial sovereignty.
==== Russia annexed Crimeia === yes, took back
====and the separtists in Eastern Ukraine are being supported by the Russian military==== By Russia, correct. US makes support to tens of regimes, France makes support to few regimes in Africa including Mali where it competes with Russia. Support isn't crime. Every country supports some parties, movements... smart people calls that diplomacy... They are minority, Russia and Red Cross supports them.
Why not? US sometimes even supports both sides of military conflict for to be sure what winner will give benefits to US... it calls geopolitics so?
Why you don't care what UK, US and some other countries already 7 years supports nazi and nationalists at west of Ukraine who took power as results of disorders and changed Constitution? You didn't knew? At 2014 they declined current Constitution and announced what there will be old one (from 2004), only then they had chance to make "impeachment" to president Yanukovitch not so questionable...
No, then Russia shouldn't have signed Crimea over to Ukraine in 1954. By your logic, Russia should be allowed to invade and annex Alaska without penalty, because they used to own it at one point in history.Quote:
> Russia annexed Crimeia
yes, took back
Or let's even give your point of view the benefit of the doubt, and say Crimea belongs to Russia moreso than Ukraine as there were loads of Russian citizens living ther, et al. If that's the case, then why didn't Russia push Crimeia to have a referendum, declare independance, secede from Ukraine and lobby the Russian government to join as a Russian state? You know, the normal and peaceful way to go about this.
But no, it's easier to just roll in with tanks and say, "yep, this land is ours now, because we said so". Then afterwards, get all pissed off and confused because Ukraine wants to join NATO.
Matt, did you saw materials what I gave to you URL? UN made polls in Crimea many years where they want to be: since 2009. Answer even under pro-kremlin govt in Ukraine was "Russia". After nationalist won, Crimea just made step in long time wished direction.
What do you want Ukraine for anyway? It would be like Wal Mart attacking a local corner shop just cos the owner used to work for them.
The Death of Stalin. A reminder it's one of the best comedies ever.
One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn. Perhaps the best book I've ever read. Have food and warmth handy because It will make you feel cold and hungry..A 3D experience.
It's approaching the time when Putin has to decide to either show his hand or fold.
Ukraine has a whopping 10 month rainy season (and I though Thailand was bad), with the average rainless period beginning December 28 and ending February 17. That being the case, Putin will probably start slowly and incrementally moving his troops away from Ukraine's border in later February. I wouldn't expect a fast and immediate withdrawal because that would cause him to lose even more face than he's already lost.
Military guys hate performing assaults in the rain, e.g., limited visibility for sniper shots, vehicles get bogged down in mud, roads wash away without warning, drains troop morale levels, and it just slows them down more in general...where hard dry ground is much the preference.
I think Putin scrambling for a photo op with Xi the other day pretty much sums it up. It's all about "perception". His bluff gets called by NATO, and for that fact, the rest of the free-world,...Germany stands firm on retracting the pipeline contract...China remains neutral, and the straw that broke the camels back was when the Central Banks in London whispered a hint that Russian Oligarch money ($$Billions) stashed in London banks could get sanctioned if Putin were to attempt to attack a friendly nation. He has no viable options. His hand is already folded.
What will be interesting to see is what happens to Ukraine's eastern border over the next 3 years. It's no longer the border between two countries. It's the border between Putin's delusional empire and the rest of the free-Europe.
My Russian friends in Chicago often talked about their frustrations with the lack of progress regarding the standard of living for Russian people under Putin's rule. I hope for the sake of the Russian people that the next leader after Putin focusses more on "the people" - and less on building more and more weapons to one day rule the world. It's about time Russia joined the rest of the modern world - and left these Flash Gordan search & destroy tactics to the authors of comic books.
For the record, I have close Russian friends that I grew up playing hockey with who are wonderful people, as are their families. So Moses please don't take anything I'm saying personally. Believe me, I've cast more stones at U.S. politics than you probably have, so don't think I'm brainwashed and/or closed minded, because I'm not. I'm fed up with all of it...don't trust anything that comes out of a politicians mouth, and find myself perfectly content spending my life separated from this destructive nonsense - preferring to spend my days drifting the shores of a third-world Asian country searching for clams and sea shells - and getting laid at night.
Some posts unrelated to this thread have been moved here :
https://sawatdeenetwork.com/v4/showt...men-in-Bayern!
I "believe" in facts. Since 2014 - all 7 years - Ukraine demands to declare Russia aggressor at each UN General Assembly. No once UN voted for that because Ukraine can't show any proof of that. Occupation of Crimea is that UN declared. UN Red Cross still calls what is going on the East of Ukraine "military noninternational conflict" - i.e. civil war. No proof exists what Russian military parts participate in it. No proof for 7+ years, almost 8.
Looks like Russia has secret weapon: as soon as phone camera targeted any Russian military, phone's battery becomes discharged less than in 1 sec. and nobody is able to film or to take a picture of Russians on Ukrainian ground.
Also looks like Russia has special masking umbrellas - for 7+ years no one satellite show images of Russian military parts on Ukrainian territory. Near borders - a lot of pictures, on territory - no one.
OSCE Special Monitoring Mission to Ukraine monitoring conflict since March 2014. There is no one report about Russian soldiers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSCE_S...ion_to_Ukraine
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...1693793%29.jpg
I'm not that sophisticated in politics that other members of the board I presume but before the Crimea crisis rate of russian ruble to thai baht was 0,9. Now it is 2,3. My main question why I should pay double of the same pleasures and who is responsible for that?
"Looking for evidence? Trust us, Biden administration says"
Feb 5, https://apnews.com/article/coronavir...c49fdbb5f91c45
Quote:
WASHINGTON (AP) — When President Biden’s administration was asked for evidence to back up dramatic claims about national security developments this past week, it demurred with a simple rejoinder: You’ll have to trust us on that.
No, they would not reveal what led them to say they knew that Russia was plotting a false flag operation as a pretext to invade Ukraine. No, they would not explain their confidence that civilian casualties were caused by a suicide bombing rather than U.S. special forces during a raid in Syria.
The administration’s response took a particularly caustic turn as spokespeople suggested that reporters were buying into foreign propaganda by even asking such questions.
The lack of transparency strained already depleted reserves of credibility in Washington, a critical resource diminished over the decades by instances of lies, falsehoods and mistakes on everything from extramarital affairs to the lack of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
Quote:
According to a CNN/SSRS poll conducted in December, only 34% of Americans said Biden “is a leader you can trust.” Another 66% said they “have some doubts and reservations.”
NATO was formed as a military alliance against the Soviet Union and continues to exist against Russia.
You may be too young to remember the Cuban Missile crisis, but that was just as much about Cuba’s proximity to the United States, as it was about missiles.
The Ukraine, Latvia or Lithuania don’t need to be part of NATO, based on why NATO was formed…nor does the world need a war over it.
Surfcrest
https://www.nato.int/wearenato/why-w...o-founded.html
Remember the shooting down of MH17, civilian flight with loss of 298 passengers and crew. The special masking umbrellas and phone battery dischargers don't seem to have been working to conceal the Russian BUK surface to air missile launcher that shot the plane down from Ukranian territory.
Quote:
The responsibility for investigation was delegated to the Dutch Safety Board (DSB) and the Dutch-led joint investigation team (JIT), who concluded that the airliner was downed by a Buk surface-to-air missile launched from pro-Russian separatist-controlled territory in Ukraine.[6][7] According to the JIT, the Buk that was used originated from the 53rd Anti-Aircraft Missile Brigade of the Russian Federation[8][9] and had been transported from Russia on the day of the crash, fired from a field in a rebel-controlled area and returned to Russia afterwards.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malays...ines_Flight_17Quote:
On 28 September 2016, the JIT gave a press conference in which it concluded that the aircraft was shot down with a 9M38 Buk missile fired from a rebel-controlled field near Pervomaisky (Первомайський), a town 6 km (3.7 mi) south of Snizhne.[126] It also found the Buk missile system used had been transported from Russia into Ukraine on the day of the crash, and then back into Russia after the crash, with one missile less than it arrived with.[1][2] The JIT said they had identified 100 people, witnesses as well as suspects, who were involved in the movement of the Buk launcher, though they had not yet identified a clear chain of command to assess culpability, which was a matter for ongoing investigation. The Dutch chief prosecutor said "the evidence must stand before a court" which would render final judgement.[1] During the investigation, the JIT recorded and assessed five billion internet pages, interviewed 200 witnesses, collected half a million photos and videos, and analysed 150,000 intercepted phone calls.[126][228] According to JIT head prosecutor Fred Westerbeke the criminal investigation is based on "immense body of evidence," including testimonies of live witnesses who saw the Buk launcher, primary radar data, original photos and videos.[229]