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Re: A future for Soi Pratuchai?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AsDaRa
Love reading about the old days, way before my time . . . please more detail
Although the thread is about Soi Twilight/Duangthawee/Pratuchai (looking back, for years it was called Duangthawee - only recently has it been changed to Pratuchai and I still don't know the reason!) Bangkok also had gay bars elsewhere. In Patpong 2 there used to be a host bar on the upper level. I wonder if anyone else remembers it. Was that Tiffany's? And then for a long time Silom Soi 4 had the famous Rome Club, Bangkok's best mixed disco with hordes of gay guys at the week-ends. For whatever reason, the owner decided that he wanted the gays out and thereafter made it a straight club. It died pretty soon after that to be replaced by Roxy. But it could never find the right formula and it too died.
My Way has been mentioned in other threads - a small bar with twinks just off Rama 4 between Silom and Suriwong. I don't remember there being shows but I reckon the boys were some of the best dancers in the gay go-go bars at that time. Along Sukhumvit off Soi 10 there was and, I believe, still remains Inter Mustache House. Most farang never got above the ground floor where 3 or 4 Thai guys would gyrate as though dancing. The real go-go bar was upstairs and was mostly patronised by Thais. Further along I was 3 or 4 times at another very small host bar just across from one of the entrances to the Ambassador Hotel car park, but I have no recollection of the name.
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Re: A future for Soi Pratuchai?
These street names in Thailand, I have the idea most names are just by common usage and not assigned to that street by a government body.
I think even many streets have no formal names. Because there hardly are any street name signs visible in Thailand.
I often wondered how the mail man could deliver his mail before Google maps and smart phones. Many streets appear not to have visible names.
Is there a street name sign at one of the 2 entrances of Soi Twilight?
Someone says above the street name was changed to Soi Pratuchai from Soi Duangthawee. Was this a name change initiated by a government body?
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Re: A future for Soi Pratuchai?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AsDaRa
These street names in Thailand, I have the idea most names are just by common usage and not assigned to that street by a government body.
It's generally not a complicated system. Main roads have formal names - like Silom, Sathorn, Wittayu and Rama 4. Smaller streets going off these roads are usually preceded by the major road name with Soi added. Those on one side of the road start at Soi 2 and go up in even numbers. So Silom Soi 4 is where Balcony and Telephone are located. On the opposite side, they go up in odd numbers.
The Bangkok Metropolitan Administration, like every city authority, has the duty of naming roads/streets/sois. It has even approved Soi Goethe as the name for the Soi off Sathorn Soi 1 where the Goethe Institut is located. And on the other side of that soi, Soi Nantha has now been named Soi Nantha/Mozart as it is close to the Austrian Embassy.
Inevitably some sois get informal names - like Soi Twilight. Originally that was called Soi Duangthawee in gay guides - officially or unofficially I don't know. But it is now known as Pratuchai which may indeed have been its original name.
At least you can be grateful you are not living in Japan where city locations take non-Japanese a lot of time to understand. How would you like to find the popular sauna 24 Kaikan in Shinjuku using this as the address - 2-13-1 Shinjuku Ni-chome, Tokyo? To Japanese, it is extremely logical, For a foreigner, if you know the system you get right to it. Don't know the system and most likely you can go round in circles before giving up!
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Re: A future for Soi Pratuchai?
City locations also take Japanese along time to find, not just foreigners.
Addresses in Japan can only get you in the general vicinity of your destination. You then have to wander around looking.
Each block - chome -is numbered, but that doesn't mean that 2 chome is necessarily next to 3 chome. It could join onto 7 chome!
If you are looking for a home address you need to know that houses are numbered by the order in which they are built. Two houses built at the same time will have the same number! The postman has to learn where everyone in the area lives. Consequently, they are great at reporting to the authorities who lives where and who has recently moved in or out of the area. Free spies!
I've never had a problem with streets in Thailand not having names. My problem is that they are often written in Thai.
All the boys in the bars around Soi Tawan know the name Soi Twilight. But if you asked a Thai who is not in the business, I guess they wouldn't have a clue.
The sign for My Way disappeared only recently. I often saw it as I walked up Rama IV and was tempted to see if it was still open. But the soi looked very run down so I never bothered.
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Re: A future for Soi Pratuchai?
Thanks a lot for this information.
Still it is strange there are so few street name signs. Because if you need soi 9 it will help if you somewhere see a sign like "soi 3", then you can count from there. Else you are at a loss without a map or without asking.
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Re: A future for Soi Pratuchai?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AsDaRa
Still it is strange there are so few street name signs. Because if you need soi 9 it will help if you somewhere see a sign like "soi 3", then you can count from there. Else you are at a loss without a map or without asking.
I wonder if you have been looking hard enough. I have rarely been unable to find a soi. If for some reason the one I want is not numbered, then the one before or the one after almost certainly is. But there are always some sois that don't fit in to the formula.
I don't totally agree with a447 about Japanese addresses, but then I only lived in Tokyo where, with a bilingual map, finding addresses was not complicated especially if apartment blocks or office blocks had specific names. One time I remember being confused was trying to find the Treffpunkt hattenba (a small sauna-like establishment). I had to check the telephone poles to get the building number!
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: A future for Soi Pratuchai?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AsDaRa
Thanks a lot for this information.
Still it is strange there are so few street name signs. Because if you need soi 9 it will help if you somewhere see a sign like "soi 3", then you can count from there. Else you are at a loss without a map or without asking.
Yes, those street signs with numbers are so damn hard to find aren't they
Attachment 4312
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Re: A future for Soi Pratuchai?
I will pay very good attention next time.
Also if I see a sign at the entrances of Soi Twilight
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Re: A future for Soi Pratuchai?
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Originally Posted by
fountainhall
Inevitably some sois get informal names - like Soi Twilight. Originally that was called Soi Duangthawee in gay guides - officially or unofficially I don't know. But it is now known as Pratuchai which may indeed have been its original name.
I don't know what it was originally called before it became known colloquially as Soi Twilight but long after Hotmale took over the Twilight location there was a push to have the first half of the soi (entering from Surawong) known as Duangthawee Plaza because the buildings on one side of the first half of the soi are owned by the Duang family and on the other side by the Thawee family - why should the Patpong family have all the name recognition after all, though as I understand it the Patpong family own and built the two "roads" on their property but Soi Twilight is a public soi and the land title along the soi belongs to the CPB
bkkguy
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Re: A future for Soi Pratuchai?
Fascinating! I wonder if you know who owns Silom Soi 4? I was once having drinks in Balcony when a Mercedes slowly crept along the soi and the gate at the end opened for it. I was told that the soi's owners still live in the mansion behind the gates, but I have no idea if that is true.
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Re: A future for Soi Pratuchai?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bkkguy
the land title along the soi belongs to the CPB
bkkguy
CPB = ?
(I want to ask - but I will not ask - how you know all this, how you know who owns these lots and streets. Did you hack the Thailand land registry?)
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Re: A future for Soi Pratuchai?
CPB = Crown Property Bureau
When you live in Bangkok over a period of years, as with any city you pick up a vast local knowledge that few tourists would even think about checking on.
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Re: A future for Soi Pratuchai?
Interesting discussion.
I would like to thank forum members who responded to my comments with their insights...
Perhaps we oldies should just remember the good times, accept the changes, and retire peacefully in Europe. But even the gay scenes in Berlin and Amsterdam have changed dramatically....
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Re: A future for Soi Pratuchai?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
werner
Perhaps we oldies should just remember the good times, accept the changes, and retire peacefully in Europe
I did think of that briefly about 3 years ago. I even went back to the UK for most of November - lousy time for weather but that was the idea. I ended up thinking that after 35 years in Asia I could perhaps think about moving back. But after a week back in Bangkok, I realised I couldn't! My soul would die!
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Re: A future for Soi Pratuchai?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fountainhall
Although the thread is about Soi Twilight/Duangthawee/Pratuchai (looking back, for years it was called Duangthawee - only recently has it been changed to Pratuchai and I still don't know the reason!)
Yes fountainhall. Who on earth refers to soi Duangthawee?
It has been known forever as soi Twilight after the infamous bar on the left hand corner.
Even though it is known as soi Twilight,that bar is long gone and is now Hotmale.
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Re: A future for Soi Pratuchai?
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Originally Posted by
Patanawet
Yes fountainhall. Who on earth refers to soi Duangthawee?
It has been known forever as soi Twilight after the infamous bar on the left hand corner.
Even though it is known as soi Twilight,that bar is long gone and is now Hotmale.
I am perfectly well aware of that as per my previous posts and dozens of visits to the old Twilight Bar (far more fun than its replacement IMO). But its official name was Duangthawee and now it is Pratuchai. Hence my question.
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Re: A future for Soi Pratuchai?
Searching in Thai, google gives more hits for ซอยประตูชัย (Soi Pratuchai) than for ดวงทวีพลาซ่า (Duangthawee Plaza). Checking the entrance gate on google maps street view Sep 2011, there is written ดวงทวีพลาซ่า (Duangthawee Plaza) among advertising for the bars. The Soi is not on google maps, nor in any map of Bangkok I have. There is no road sign at either entrance.
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Re: A future for Soi Pratuchai?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
christianpfc
The Soi is not on google maps, nor in any map of Bangkok I have. There is no road sign at either entrance.
This certainly is strange. Then it must be indeed a private road. But still, a map should map every street that is publicly accessible. How weird map makers just ignore it after so many years. I wonder what the reason is.
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Re: A future for Soi Pratuchai?
Quote:
Originally Posted by fountainhall
But its official name was Duangthawee and now it is Pratuchai. Hence my question.
You are confused Khun fountainhall and your repeated displays of confusion are confusing others.
The name of the Soi is Pratuchai and it is not new. Duangthawee (as BKKguy has noted above) is the name given to the buildings and the paved area between them that line the Soi. Duangthawee Plaza.
Just google the address of Dream Boys or Dicks Cafe and you will find that they are consistently listed as:
38/3-6 Duangthawee Plaza, Soi Pratuchai, Suriwongse Road, Bangrak
and
894/7-8 Duangthawee Plaza, Soi Pratuchai, Suriwongse Road, Bangrak
respectively.
Of course, there are incorrect variations on the www posted by similarly confused individuals.
But now I will add a confusion of my own. Christianpfc will be interested in this: Open up Hornet and zoom into the location of Dream Boys and Dicks and you will see the small street labeled as Soi Decho!
That is not to be confused with Decho Road which runs between Suriwongse and Silom, much further west (west of Pullman G Hotel) of course.....
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Re: A future for Soi Pratuchai?
Thanks MiniMee. But many guides some years ago only mentioned the Duangthawee part and never Pratuchai. Here are a Lonely Planet and a Bangkok Gay Guide entries from the early 2000s -
Quote:
Duangthawee Plaza
Red-light district in Riverside, Silom & Lumphini
This strip of male-only go-go bars is the gay equivalent of nearby Th Patpong. Expect tacky sex shows by bored-looking men.
Quote:
More gay places atDuangthawee Plaza
From Suriwong Road leads a small Soi (lane) to a lot more gay places like . . .
This soi is marked by kind of a wooden entrance gaye opposite where Taniya Road ends.
More resent listings certainly include Pratuchai. So I will now consign Duangthawee to posting history!
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Re: A future for Soi Pratuchai?
What’s in a name, eh?
Before I started reading or posting on this forum, I had never heard or seen the soi referred to as Soi Twilight. It is difficult for me to imagine now, but many years ago when I used to travel up to Bangkok from Hua Hin, to spend a few nights going to the go-go bars, I always seemed to have trouble locating the soi. I therefore asked some of the vendors at, or near, the entrance to the soi to let me know its name. I was told it is called, soi bprà-dtuu chai. I was then able to quote it when getting a taxi directly to the soi, or if I had found myself lost and unable to locate the bars, I could ask someone for help.
So, when I began posting trip reports, go-go bar or massage parlour reviews relating to ‘Soi Twilight’, I have more often than not referred to this soi as the following: "soi bprà-dtuu chai (AKA Soi Twilight)" or shortened to, "‘Soi Twilight’" depending on the context of my report and to indicate this was not its correct name, mainly for the benefit of new readers who had yet to visit the soi.
I even kept a few business cards from some of the bars and massage joints and they refer to it as follows:
Future Boys
soi pratoochai surawong Rd
X Size Club
Soi Pratuchai Surawong Rd
Bonny Massage
Soi Pratuchai (Boytown), Surawong Rd
S go go boys
Soi Pratuchai Surawong Rd.,
The Boys Bangkok
Duangthawee Plaza Bang Rak Bangkok
Dick’s Café Bangkok
Duangthawee Plaza, Soi Pratoochai
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Re: A future for Soi Pratuchai?
So if this soi has a name for many years, if taxi drivers know how to find it, why does google maps not show this soi?
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Re: A future for Soi Pratuchai?
Never mind. By the time posters complete the interrogation of each other regarding the name of this soi, the soi will have become a hotel or office block and the casual observer will no longer be able to discern where the soi once existed.
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Re: A future for Soi Pratuchai?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fountainhall
More resent listings certainly include Pratuchai. So I will now consign Duangthawee to posting history!
Well done fountainhall but why not revert even further and call it Soi Twilight as most locals do?
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Re: A future for Soi Pratuchai?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Patanawet
. . . why not revert even further and call it Soi Twilight as most locals do?
Perhaps if you had actually been reading the thread, you would have known that this is precisely what I have done for decades!! It was merely a surprise to hear it mentioned as Pratuchai - hence the recent dialogue. My post #5 on page 1 surely could not have been clearer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fountainhall
The announcement is interesting because at least two of the Boards have had recent threads re how Soi Twlight (as it is often called after the original Twilight gogo bar) can continue given the substantial reduction of western visitors looking to off boys and the increase in Chinese and other Asians only interested in just one drink and seeing the shows . . . Soi Twilight's decline comes as Silom Soi 4 thrives.
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Re: A future for Soi Pratuchai?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AsDaRa
So if this soi has a name for many years, if taxi drivers know how to find it, why does google maps not show this soi?
Indeed. And why does Google Maps show Silom 5 as a dead end when it is not? The Google maps satellite view does show that you can walk from Surawong through to Rama 4 via an unnamed laneway, and it even shows some of the businesses along the way such as Dick's Cafe. Possibly Google has it classified as an alley (trok) rather than a side street (soi). As for taxi drivers knowing the location of brothels - 'nuff said.
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Re: A future for Soi Pratuchai?
I assume there must be different versions of google maps. Mine clearly shows the soi and even more establishments - but not Dick's nor Classic Boys and Hotmale. It also calls the soi Decho!!!
Attachment 4313
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Re: A future for Soi Pratuchai?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fountainhall
I assume there must be different versions of google maps.
I'm using the Web version https://www.google.co.th/maps?hl=en
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Re: A future for Soi Pratuchai?
Fountainhall, that map is obviously well out of date.
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Re: A future for Soi Pratuchai?
The web version and the iOS version of Google Maps doesn't have it. Mr. Fountainhall makes a mistake. He uses Apple maps version.
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Re: A future for Soi Pratuchai?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
a447
Fountainhall, that map is obviously well out of date.
Being up to date was not the point of the exercise. Showing Soi Twilight and its location on a map was! I frankly defy anyone to find an up to date map of Soi Twilight. And I have no idea what maps my computer displays, but I do work on a Mac. Obviously its maps appear to be superior to those offered by google even though it is struggling with names! :D:D
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Re: A future for Soi Pratuchai?
I should have entitled this thread "Soi Twilight" or "Boi Soi" or anything except Soi Pratuchai. I never expected Pratuchai to generate such turmoil, such hand-wringing, such angst. Apparently I'm not the only one with too much free time on his hands.
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Re: A future for Soi Pratuchai?
As long as tourists keeps coming to Bangkok , there will always be a future for gogo clubs and gay bars. Maybe not this soi , the Thais knows where to go to have fun and that's not in the SIlom area .
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Re: A future for Soi Pratuchai?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
loke
As long as tourists keeps coming to Bangkok , there will always be a future for gogo clubs and gay bars. Maybe not this soi , the Thais knows where to go to have fun and that's not in the SIlom area .
So you're saying that there will be gogo bars because the Thais know where to go to have fun, but they won't be in the main tourist area even though the bars will exists "as long as tourists keep coming to Bangkok"??
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Re: A future for Soi Pratuchai?
Oh well, Thai gays don't normally go to Soi Twilight anyway. Neither am I, 350 baht for a beer is way to much for me. I can see those dicks for free elsewhere :D
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Re: A future for Soi Pratuchai?
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Originally Posted by
justaguy
350 baht for a beer is way to much for me. I can see those dicks for free elsewhere :D
Agreed, but isn't Bt. 350 pretty low for that soi now? I paid Bt. 400 at Dreamboys about a year ago. It may have been a special night, but didn't feel like it! The place was packed, though.
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Re: A future for Soi Pratuchai?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fountainhall
Perhaps if you had actually been reading the thread,
My apaologies fountainhall, I must have missed that message.
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Re: A future for Soi Pratuchai?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
loke
As long as tourists keeps coming to Bangkok , there will always be a future for gogo clubs and gay bars. Maybe not this soi , the Thais knows where to go to have fun and that's not in the SIlom area .
Bit of a non-sequitur there. So as long as there are tourists, there will be go-go bars. That's not what some recent posters think, by the way. However, you then suggest maybe not in Soi Twilight but elsewhere where Thais go to have fun. Odd, given that more than one poster has pointed out that where Thais go to have fun is never known to or even open to farang. So what does the future of go-go bars have to do with tourists?
During your absence you no doubt did not read the post made by arsenal just 2 days ago on The Changes in Bangkok's Go-Go Bars thread -
Quote:
Originally Posted by
arsenal
There are places that only cater for Thais, both men and women. You'll never find them and even if you do, they won't let you in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Patanawet
My apaologies fountainhall, I must have missed that message.
No problem - and thank you for mentioning it!
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Re: A future for Soi Pratuchai?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fountainhall
During your absence you no doubt did not read the post made by arsenal just 2 days ago on The Changes in Bangkok's Go-Go Bars thread
Those of us who have arsenal in our Foes list would also have missed it
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Re: A future for Soi Pratuchai?
OMG, Kommie! Arsenal must be shattered!
Especially now that he knows you are not the only one who has put him on the list.
"Those of us...."
So are those "us"???
But the guys on your own Foes list have the funny knack of being able to remove themselves from that list at will and appear before you.
I'm on your Foes list, too. Remember? But that hasn't prevented you from quickly replying to my posts.
Then again, maybe it's a software issue. Lol