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Re: Best thing you can do for a Issan boy?
Hey Tiuri,
Thanks for the story, and glad to know you found a great BF to share life with. The only thing about your story is it doesn't sound like it has anything to do with him being from Issan, or any financial reasons. It's simply because you went to Europe for a long period of time, and long-distance relationships are tough. He got lonely, human nature took over, and he naturally met new people. Do you think he would have stayed loving and faithful to you, if you would have stayed in Thailand? Do you think maybe he was hurt that you went to Europe on him, and a part of him seen it as though you weren't actually going to be there for him in the long-term?
That reason is why tons of "genuine" relationships don't work out in the long-term. Maybe the husband is in the military, or maybe his work dictates he's only seldom home, etc. I could even say it's one of the main reasons the relationship with my ex-husband didn't work out. We were only a four hour flight away, and spent about 60% of our time together, but nonetheless, it definitely took its toll on the relationship.
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Re: Best thing you can do for a Issan boy?
That's a really interesting story, Turi. Thanks for telling us.
Heh... I think the Thai student in your home country was thinking "if only I could get this guy away from that other Thai boy!"... the schemer! lol.
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Re: Best thing you can do for a Issan boy?
Yeah... I think I would find it hard to remain faithful to a Thai boy overseas if I was living in Thailand. There's one thing to be lonely... but another to be lonely and surrounded by so many cute, friendly boys... some of which throw themselves at you.
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Re: Best thing you can do for a Issan boy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnmatt
Hey Tiuri,
Thanks for the story, and glad to know you found a great BF to share life with. The only thing about your story is it doesn't sound like it has anything to do with him being from Issan, or any financial reasons. It's simply because you went to Europe for a long period of time, and long-distance relationships are tough. He got lonely, human nature took over, and he naturally met new people. Do you think he would have stayed loving and faithful to you, if you would have stayed in Thailand? Do you think maybe he was hurt that you went to Europe on him, and a part of him seen it as though you weren't actually going to be there for him in the long-term?
That reason is why tons of "genuine" relationships don't work out in the long-term. Maybe the husband is in the military, or maybe his work dictates he's only seldom home, etc. I could even say it's one of the main reasons the relationship with my ex-husband didn't work out. We were only a four hour flight away, and spent about 60% of our time together, but nonetheless, it definitely took its toll on the relationship.
Hi Matt,
that's why I took care to point out that I am convinced that he really loved me at the time. And I don't blame him at all.
The point that I wanted to make was about two things:
First, both partners should invest in the relationship, not only one taking care of the other; which in your case, as I understand, is definitely the case.
Second, it's a simple experience that I gained from this, obviously our plans for the future were not the same - had I stayed with him in Thailand, I would have just continued to be a teacher, earning more than most Thais but not nearly comparable to what I was going to earn after finishing my MSc/PhD.
I was committed to him, but I thought we could make it and I could finish my study and then see what came next (moving to Thailand again, or getting him to live with me here). It might be a typical Thai thing, or it might just have been him, but I just realized that if he really wanted to spend the rest of his life with me, he should have held on to the hope that we would make it. Instead, he obviously chose to give up and get a new bf.
With my "new" bf (we've been together two years now, so it's not so new), although we will face the same problem soon, I feel we both have a more mature stance on what will realistically happen to our lives, and we will be apart, at least for a while, once he needs to go back to Thailand. Nevertheless, we'll both try to make it work and find a way how we can be together. If it doesn't work out in the end, that's just life.
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Re: Best thing you can do for a Issan boy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiuri
We started developing a friendship and I opened up a bit and talked about the difficult situation I was in, being separated from my love and neither feeling completely at home in my country, nor in Thailand. He asked a few questions that really made me think. For example, why it was me and not my bf who "thought a lot" about the future; why, even then as a student, possessing nearly nothing, I sent money to him regularly and was the one who always called and always cared while my bf would very seldomly call me - and so on.
It was then that I argued nearly exactly as you do now - even though we were the same age, I was from the rich country, while he was from the poor, from a family that didn't really love and care for him (7 children, you might know a similar story), a guy that needed my love and attention much more than my money (which was little enough).
I don't want to throw any acid on your story Tiuri... But as someone who is involved in a 7 year Long distance relationship with a Thai guy since i was 28... I am amazed at how often European based Thai guys that i meet (or more frequently Malay and Pinoy guys) try to undermine the relationship i have with my BF
I am not saying that your current BF specifically undermined the relationship that you had with your ex-BF... but lets face facts... if he is rich enough to go abroad to study... he is rich enough to but your ex-BFs village ten times over... and more tan capable of looking down his nose at his poor countrymen
In my opinion Little Emporers like this very rarely make Decent BFs either
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Re: Best thing you can do for a Issan boy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by colmx
I don't want to throw any acid on your story Tiuri... But as someone who is involved in a 7 year Long distance relationship with a Thai guy since i was 28... I am amazed at how often European based Thai guys that i meet (or more frequently Malay and Pinoy guys) try to undermine the relationship i have with my BF
I am not saying that your current BF specifically undermined the relationship that you had with your current BF... but lets face facts... if he is rich enough to go abroad to study... he is rich enough to but your ex-BFs village ten times over... and more tan capable of looking down his nose at his poor countrymen
In my opinion Little Emporers like this very rarely make Decent BFs either
No problem ;)
Maybe I wasn't clear enough on that part of the story. We did not become boyfriends until the relationship to my ex-bf was well over. I took my time, I don't like to rush from one thing to the next, really.
His family is not rich and would never be able to support him to study here. He's a scholarship student who was chosen for a scholarship at the age of 15. That's also the reason why he doesn't have any say in his future. He was sent here to get a Master degree and then a PhD in mathematics and is supported by the government until that is achieved. He then needs to return to Thailand to teach at university (or pay the money back two times over, which is nothing he or I could afford without winning the lottery).
He never tried to "steal" me.
What's more, compared to my ex-bf, he's never asked me for money, even though I would give it gladly. That was one thing that really upset me about the family of my ex-bf: When I visited his home one time in 2005, I met his mum, and she implied that I was to be the benefactor of the family (not only of her son) because "my cousin has a farang husband and he pays for everything".
While I didn't mind giving money to my ex-bf, I was a bit upset by this plain demand of his mother. I plainly had the impression that she didn't give a shit if her daughters or sons went into prostitution, as long as she got some money out of it. She didn't seem like a poor farmer's wife close to starvation either, with a nice house and all the rest.
Of course that is not a general example of "Issan family behavior", but it's not the first time I've heard of it. Oh well, I am generalizing again :)
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Re: Best thing you can do for a Issan boy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiuri
First, both partners should invest in the relationship, not only one taking care of the other
A few initial thoughts .....
First, what do you mean by "invest"? If you are talking in purely financial terms then yours is not a relationship I would envy, where comparing bank balances is even considered any part of the equation/relationship. If "investment" has a wider meaning, however, I would agree with you. In mine and my partner's case, for example, we both "invested" equally with 100% of everything we had - heart, body and soul as well as the bank balances. Everything we owned individually before we now own jointly, just as everything we did individually before we now do together. That, to me, makes for a far more "stable and strong" relationship than one where one partner expects the other to "contribute equally" regardless of circumstances.
Secondly, Matt has made it clear that he hopes that Kim finds something to do and plans on helping him if necessary - and if KIm doesn't then I think the relationship is doomed, as Matt will be spending much of each day working while Kim will either be getting bored out of his skull or be getting up to the things that many young men end up doing when they have nothing better to do and money to spare.
In many other cases, however, particularly where neither partner needs to work to finance the relationship and maintain a satisfactory standard of living, that is not necessarily the case. While Bill Gates may have had some misgivings about anyone's motivation for having a relationship with him, if he had waited until someone came along who could "try to contribute to it equally" he would be a very lonely man! Sadly I am not in his league and I doubt if many others are who are reading this thread, but the same principle still applies. I am retired and have not worked for several years, but I do not have the time to get bored; if my partner were to work any financial contribution he could make, at least at the present time, would only make a marginal difference to the lifestyle we can afford (which while not extravagant is adequate for us both) and it would mean that we would spend far less time together which, to me, is not only central to our relationship but to my life. I am quite prepared to help him if he wants to work and to set up his own business and I would encourage him in every way possible if that is what he decided to do, but under no circumstances could any financial "contribution" he would make, equal or not, ever make up for the time he would be away.
Far less importantly, and "to put it very harshly" .....
While your "new" boyfriend may have never tried to "steal" you, he certainly did enough to convince you of his own cultural and social superiority and your ex's (and his family's) shortcomings to ensure that whatever was left of your previous relationship ended. Irrespective of his government scholarship his family would need to be considerably better off than most Isaan families to be able to afford to cover the many expenses that his government scholarship does not, and while they may be "not exactly rich" they would certainly not be "poor". I think BL and colmx have been more than generous in their posts.
By the sound of it all those concerned seem to be getting everything they deserve. You do not deserve any relationship based on love and trust, as you took the first opportunity to read his personal mobile phone messages, which if you had "believed in him (a lot)" you would never have even thought about doing; ..... your ex appears to have never "really, genuinely" cared about you at all, and he evidently has a few "other men" available as replacements anyway; ... and your "new" boyfriend is now partnered with someone who considers distrust and bean counting a normal if not necessary part of a relationship and he presumably feels the same way. Good luck to you all.
... and why don't you try surviving "proudly" on 5,000 baht a month, without family support, next time you are living in Thailand? I can guarantee that your "new" boyfriend has never had to.
... and just what does "What's more, compared to my ex-bf, he's never asked me for money, ..." mean? Do you mean "compared to" or "unlike"? Either he has or he hasn't.
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Re: Best thing you can do for a Issan boy?
Gone Fishing - with all due respect, I think you have missed the basic point I was trying to make. In those old-style relationships in the hetero world where the wife stayed at home and the husband worked, I doubt it was a case of no money, no honey.
Quote:
Rubbish relationships between farangs and working / ex-working boys by all means
Of course there are maybe some genuine cases where a 20 y.o. Thai boy falls in love with a man old enough to be his grandfather and who would stand by granddad and have loving sex with him even if his source of income suddenly disappeared. The married couples you were talking about were probably around the same age and had lots in common. What on earth would a young guy be interested in associating with an old man???? MONEY! C'mon GF, it's not rocket science.
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Re: Best thing you can do for a Issan boy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gone Fishing
Everything we owned individually before we now own jointly, just as everything we did individually before we now do together.
Good heavens, Gone Fishing... I hope that doesn't include him having to sit there while you compose yet another of these seemingly endless responses! :8(
...Just razzing you, GF. If the relationship works for you two, that's all that matters.
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Re: Lapdogs or eternal love?
Quote:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_1-xvEOICRw...icture%2B6.png
http://understandingsociety.blogspot.com/
Prof Pasuk Phongpaichit did not leave room for doubt about our shamelessly unfair society in her recent keynote speech on "Towards a Fair Society" at the King Prachadhipok Institute conference. Among the glaring facts:
- The top 20% own 69% of the country's assets while the bottom 20% own only 1%.
[/*:m:19pa7yvm] - 42% of bank savings money comes from only 70,000 bank accounts holding more than 10 million baht. They make up only 0.09% of all bank accounts in the country. In other words, less than 1% of the people own nearly half of the country's savings.
[/*:m:19pa7yvm] - Among the farming families, nearly 20% of them are landless, or about 811,871 families, while 1-1.5 million farming families are tenants or struggling with insufficient land.[/*:m:19pa7yvm]
[/*:m:19pa7yvm]- 10% of land owners own more than 100 rai each, while the rest 90% own one rai or less.
[/*:m:19pa7yvm] - On income distribution, the top 20% enjoy more than 50% of the gross domestic product while the bottom 20% only 4%.
[/*:m:19pa7yvm] - The average income of the bottom 20% is the same as the poverty line at 1,443 baht per month.
[/*:m:19pa7yvm] - The gap between the richest and poorest family is 13 times, higher than all our neighbouring countries.[/*:m:19pa7yvm]
A fairer taxation system could reduce this economic disparity, she said. This can be done by expanding the base of direct taxpayers, introducing progressive land, inheritance, capital gains and interest taxes, for example. Unfortunately, the current taxation system worsens economic disparity by allowing easy tax evasion among the super rich while focusing on indirect taxation which treats the poor the same as the rich. Talk about justice!
State expenditure on free education, public health welfare, a comprehensive social security system and better agricultural policies have proven elsewhere to help bridge the gap, she said.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/blogs/ind...istics?blog=64
Pasuk Phongpaichit: http://pioneer.netserv.chula.ac.th/~ppasuk/index.htm
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...and_lapdog.jpg
Lapdog. Isfahan, Iran (British Museum) Circa 1640
Lapdogs historically were kept in many societies around the world by individuals with leisure time, as docile companion animals with no working function. Genetic analysis reveals that lapdogs are among the earliest specific types of dogs to live with people. Today, most lapdog breeds fall into the
Toy breed group. (Wikipedia)
PROJECT A: TEMPORARY SIAMESE LAPDOG
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiuri
There are uncountable numbers of "boys" who have farang sitting at home why they have a good time partying and picking up guys for a "gig", and still manage to play the farang for a fool, such that he never finds out what's going on.
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a) Farang happy (owns money and b). Fidelity checks are counterproductive!
b) Thai boyfriend very happy (owns a and c)
c) Third-party boyfriend(s) happy (own(s) b etc.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiuri
Yes, they make you FEEL they love you, both because they are incredible actors (ever heard the phrase: "lie like Siam"??) and because you're their best chance at a secure future. They are prepared to give a lot for that.
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Amazing! Amazing Siam!
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Originally Posted by Tiuri
They even give in to your stupid desire to make them "study" your native language or study at universities, although they tend to fail quite quickly.
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Truly heroic, these illiterate drug addicts!
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Originally Posted by Tiuri
If you want a reliable and truthful bf who really loves you, you have to try to get people who at least have a minimum of education and have learned the importance of hard work in life.
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Work: hard тЖТ Love: sweet?
Work: sweet тЖТ Love: hard?
Working class (always working), middle class, upper class? BA, MA, PhD?
Is a hard-working Thai escort with a PhD adequately qualified for the lapdog role abroad?
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Recursion Gone Wrong
Code:
def SongNeverEnds():
print тАЬThis is 'The Song That Doesn't End'тАЭ
print тАЬYes it goes on, and on my friendтАЭ
print тАЬSome people, started singing itтАЭ
print тАЬnot knowing what it wasтАЭ
print тАЬAnd theyтАЩll just keep on singing itтАЭ
print тАЬforever just because...тАЭ
SongNeverEnds()
PROJECT B: THAI BOYFRIEND FOR ETERNAL LOVE
Fidelity check: Minutely, hourly, daily, yearly?
Eternal love 1,
Eternal love 2,
тАж,
Eternal love n-1,
Eternal love n.
Quote:
┬╗Allow your heart to beat more slowly for a while and your mind to drift. Live in the present, and you may suddenly be struck by the realization of how lucky you are to be right here, right now.┬л
If Thais don't wait for their absent boyfriends, are they to blame? Yes, but only for the lack of communication. Not for their carnality. They are young, and their talent for living in the present is one of their assets. Finally we should not forget
polyamory. Learning can be painful, but Thais are worth the pain. Just read Dodger's mouthwatering story with the green eyes, from depression to paradise. Fictitious? Does it matter? My theory: The lacking condom is fictitious. To lend the story credibility. Not only the Tourism Authority of Thailand owes Dodger a debt of gratitude.
The good news: Even the unlikely is possible.
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Re: Best thing you can do for a Issan boy?
Art, have you considered donating a very large sum ~ weekly ~ to the maintenance of this Board for your massive use of bandwidth.
Not criticizing the content of your posts mind you ~ though I've never actually read one all the way through and I suspect I'm not alone ~ but:
Quote:
" ...
A Server Hog is a user, program or system that places excessive load on a server such that the server performance as experienced by other clients is degraded, or such that the server itself is so heavily loaded that it fails to perform routine housekeeping for its own maintenance ... " <<
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_hog >>
Hmmmm ... and double-hmmmm ... a very suspicious link at the bottom of that Wikipedia article: http://www.arthistoryclub.com/art_history/Server_hog
But carry on ...
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Re: Best thing you can do for a Issan boy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiles
Art, have you considered donating a very large sum ~ weekly ~ to the maintenance of this Board for your massive use of bandwidth.
Not criticizing the content of your posts mind you ~ though I've never actually read one all the way through and I suspect I'm not alone ~
But carry on ...
You are not alone, Smiles! Even a troll is more entertaining than a hog.
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Re: Best thing you can do for a Issan boy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiuri
First, both partners should invest in the relationship, not only one taking care of the other; which in your case, as I understand, is definitely the case.
Maybe I'm misreading, but are you saying he doesn't invest in the relationship, or the other way around? If the former, then you're actually completely wrong. He invests loads into the relationship, and has been there for me many times now in ways that only my family and ex-husband have been. I guess if you view relationships purely in financial and tangible terms, then no, he doesn't invest much. In my opinion though, if you view relationships in that way, you don't particularly deserve a loving partner anyway.
Or what should I do? Demand he skrimps and saves all money, and never goes out to enjoy himself, so he can invest that whole $30 at the end of the month? Not to mention, if he has extra money, I expect it to goto mama and his younger siblings, not "us".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiuri
Second, it's a simple experience that I gained from this, obviously our plans for the future were not the same ... It might be a typical Thai thing, or it might just have been him, but I just realized that if he really wanted to spend the rest of his life with me, he should have held on to the hope that we would make it. Instead, he obviously chose to give up and get a new bf.
Honestly, it sounds as though you decided to do what's best for yourself, instead of what's best for "us", so of course the relationship was doomed to fail. After a while, my ex-husband decided to do the same as well, which was probably the biggest reason the relationship ended. I put up with it for a long time because I loved him, but I eventually told him to fuck off. Like you said, a relationship requires both people to invest, which includes sacrifices, and doing things you normally wouldn't do alone.
Sounds as though you basically just said, "well, I'm going to school in Europe, and I'm not overly certain what's going to happen, but hopefully we can make this work sometime in the future". Doesn't sound like there was any type of plan in place, and he basically just got left hanging, so of course that's not going to go over very well with him. How would you feel if someone did that to you?
You know, I hear the same type of stories from farangs lots, and it's no wonder these relationships don't work. Almost nobody will admit it, but the vast majority of farangs do view Issan boys as a lower class of humans, and because of that, think they can push the line a little more instead of treating them like an equal. Then when the relationship ends, the farang blames the Thai. As sad as it sounds, I think it's pretty rare to find a farang who treats his Thai BF the same as he would treat a BF in the west.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiuri
With my "new" bf (we've been together two years now, so it's not so new), although we will face the same problem soon, I feel we both have a more mature stance on what will realistically happen to our lives, and we will be apart, at least for a while, once he needs to go back to Thailand. Nevertheless, we'll both try to make it work and find a way how we can be together. If it doesn't work out in the end, that's just life.
Hope it works out well for you guys! I have my doubts though, when you say "If it doesn't work out in the end, that's just life".
Quote:
Originally Posted by a447
In those old-style relationships in the hetero world where the wife stayed at home and the husband worked, I doubt it was a case of no money, no honey.
Sure it is, lots of times. And unless you come from a small town, and/or were childhood sweet hearts or something, I would say the majority of the time. I'm sure we all know a good number of divorced couples, who's marriage ended with financial problems being one of the main reasons.
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Re: Best thing you can do for a Issan boy?
It's amazing how you old fools can't find a boyfriend in your own country. Asians are everywhere and people can't hook up with them in their own home town why? Because they're not prostitutes, that's why. How comfortable would you be parading an asian boy in your hometown who looked to be your grandson? You wouldn't, that's why there is Thailand. God bless people who think they found love in a country that is thousands of miles away from their own, but again I ask, why can't you find true love where you are?
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Re: Best thing you can do for a Issan boy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnmatt
Honestly, it sounds as though you decided to do what's best for yourself, instead of what's best for "us", so of course the relationship was doomed to fail. After a while, my ex-husband decided to do the same as well, which was probably the biggest reason the relationship ended. I put up with it for a long time because I loved him, but I eventually told him to fuck off. Like you said, a relationship requires both people to invest, which includes sacrifices, and doing things you normally wouldn't do alone.
Sounds as though you basically just said, "well, I'm going to school in Europe, and I'm not overly certain what's going to happen, but hopefully we can make this work sometime in the future". Doesn't sound like there was any type of plan in place, and he basically just got left hanging, so of course that's not going to go over very well with him. How would you feel if someone did that to you?
You know, I hear the same type of stories from farangs lots, and it's no wonder these relationships don't work. Almost nobody will admit it, but the vast majority of farangs do view Issan boys as a lower class of humans, and because of that, think they can push the line a little more instead of treating them like an equal. Then when the relationship ends, the farang blames the Thai. As sad as it sounds, I think it's pretty rare to find a farang who treats his Thai BF the same as he would treat a BF in the west.
Hi Matt,
I never wished to imply that your bf wasn't investing in your relationship - quite to the opposite. I'm not a native speaker and sometimes it shows :)
Well, Gone Fishing's reply has showed me very clearly that it's not a good idea to share personal stories and/or experiences on this board, so I will draw the line here and just answer to the points that you raised, trying to clarify a few things.
Actually, the decision to go back to the West was nothing that I decided alone, nor was it an easy decision. I had left Europe in the middle of my university studies and if there was ever to be a time to finish those, it was that time. That is why we decided together that I would return.
The plan was to bring him here as soon as possible ( = as soon as I could afford it, being a student with no means whatsoever), but very surely within 1-2 years after my leaving Thailand.
Like I also pointed out before, I called him every day, I sent him money when he needed it, and I came back for a visit as soon as I could (first time about 5 months after I had left). I had never stopped believing in us, and I certainly didn't feel good about leaving him "hanging on" back in Thailand. But that was the only way at that time.
The part about me reading his mobile phone messages also didn't happen right away, so thank you very much for your comments, Gone Fishing, but it was not the first opportunity, more like the 20th, maybe. If you come back to visit the love of your life and you experience the fact that he stays out ("with friends") whole nights while you are sleeping, you start to wonder what he's up to. But hell, I would have to tell the whole story here and that would bore you all.
I thought I had taken care not to insult anyone here, especially not you, Matt, nor to critisize your decision or your choice to live with you bf in Isaan. On the contrary, I wish you all the luck and joy with it, and do hope sincerely that it works out for you guys.
Dear GoneFishing, I really wonder what entitles you to pass on judgement on people you don't even remotely know. But you being a lot older and wiser than me, there might be wisdom that I am not yet able to comprehend. By the way, I have lived on 2000 Baht/month, in Isaan, for 3 months. It was quite a happy time, although I must admit that the lifestyle in a remote village might be a bit different from that in Bangkok ;)
Take care.
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Re: Best thing you can do for a Issan boy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by a447
Of course there are maybe some genuine cases where a 20 y.o. Thai boy falls in love with a man old enough to be his grandfather and who would stand by granddad and have loving sex with him even if his source of income suddenly disappeared. The married couples you were talking about were probably around the same age and had lots in common. What on earth would a young guy be interested in associating with an old man???? MONEY! C'mon GF, it's not rocket science.
True, its not rocket science, its all about money if you try to have a relationship with someone that are familiar with the bars in Pattaya . You can call him a Boyfriend as much as you want, up to you but he will never be the true love you're looking for.
It's also about money if you travel up north and find a nice innocent boy from Korat or Khon Kaen . But , if you're lucky it will also be a relationship with love and respect , even if there is an age gap . Sure he wants you to take care of his family too but still money is not everything for them.
So I respect all of you that can settle down in a village or a city and learn the language , understand the thai culture and just be happy with your extended family .
If you cant handle it you can always let them down, go back to Pattaya and live your life as a butterfly , fuck all the moneyboys you want and just be a real asshole.
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Re: Best thing you can do for a Issan boy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiuri
" ... By the way, I have lived on 2000 Baht/month, in Isaan, for 3 months ... "
Although living in Isaan, in upcountry can definitely stretch one's income a lot further than the resort towns (much less Bangkok), I don't believe for a minute that the statement above is anything but a rather large exaggeration: that's 65.5 baht a day.
One could, I suppose, conceivably do that by buying one bottle of water, a nice som tam and one ear of corn on the cob for the one daily meal you could afford ... and then spending the rest of the day chuk wowing.
If you can break the costs by month down for us, it'd help the credibility ... though even then we'd have to actually believe the breakdown.
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Re: Best thing you can do for a Issan boy?
I try to teach the bois how to floss their teeth,but they look at me like Im ting tong.
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Re: Best thing you can do for a Issan boy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiuri
Dear GoneFishing, I really wonder what entitles you to pass on judgement on people you don't even remotely know.
I am not passing judgement on people. What I am passing judgement on is what they write here - nothing more, nothing less. If that offends you, then maybe you should not be so judgemental of others yourself - and by "others" I don't just mean "anyone here", whom you had "had taken care not to insult", but also those who are the main subject of your post who you apparently think it is perfectly acceptable to pass judgement on and denigrate with impunity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by a447
Gone Fishing - with all due respect, I think you have missed the basic point I was trying to make.
No, I didn't miss it at all - my post was directed at Tiuri who was referring to relationships in general and his in particular, which had nothing to do with those between "a 20 y.o. Thai boy" and "a man old enough to be his grandfather". As far as those particular relationships are concerned, I would not disagree with you (though I would hardly describe your point as ground-breaking!).
..... and bao-bao, no, I admit there are some exceptions - I don't watch all the Thai soaps, we don't share the toilet, and he sleeps rather more than me (about 5 hours more!) so most of my posts here are made when he is asleep so I do not inflict this on him - that would probably be one way to end the relationship, though!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiuri
" ... By the way, I have lived on 2000 Baht/month, in Isaan, for 3 months ... "
Although living in Isaan, in upcountry can definitely stretch one's income a lot further than the resort towns (much less Bangkok), I don't believe for a minute that the statement above is anything but a rather large exaggeration: that's 65.5 baht a day. .....
... and remember, Smiles, that included his generously supporting his b/f and his b/f's grasping mother!OK, forget the bottled water, but it is definitely one of the more outrageous claims I have seen here - I don't even dare think about soap and toothpaste, let alone the basic requirements for safe sex!
Quote:
Originally Posted by yedo111
If you cant handle it you can always let them down, go back to Pattaya and live your life as a butterfly , fuck all the moneyboys you want and just be a real asshole.
Alternatively you can put yourself on a pedestal, post wild generalisations about farangs and Thais based on no more than where they live (which just happens to be where you were rejected by both), and convince yourself that getting away with paying less because there isn't an "off" fee involved (even though you are still paying for it and "he wants you to take care of his family too") somehow means that "it will also be a relationship with love and respect".
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Re: Best thing you can do for a Issan boy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnmatt
You know, I hear the same type of stories from farangs lots, and it's no wonder these relationships don't work.
Funnily enough, Matt, it only just struck me that although so many failed farang/Thai relationships seem to have striking similarities, the opposite seems true about successful farang/Thai relationships which all seem to be markedly different. Strange .....
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Re: Best thing you can do for a Issan boy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gone Fishing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiuri
Dear GoneFishing, I really wonder what entitles you to pass on judgement on people you don't even remotely know.
I am not passing judgement on
people. What I am passing judgement on is
what they write here - nothing more, nothing less. If that offends you, then maybe you should not be so judgemental of others yourself - and by "
others" I don't just mean "
anyone here", whom you had "
had taken care not to insult", but also those who are the main subject of your post who you apparently think it is perfectly acceptable to pass judgement on and denigrate with impunity.
Point taken. But I hope you don't think that I look down on people because they are from Isaan (or from anywhere for that matter). I want to make that clear. The beginning of the thread was, after all, about bathing your bf in money (be it cash, buying him a house, or funding a business for him), and that, after all the things that I have experienced, and that friends have experienced, seemed rather foolish to me. Hence my sharp reaction.
Isn't this also quite a big generalization though:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gone Fishing
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnmatt
You know, I hear the same type of stories from farangs lots, and it's no wonder these relationships don't work.
Funnily enough,
Matt, it only just struck me that although so many failed farang/Thai relationships seem to have striking similarities, the opposite seems true about successful farang/Thai relationships which all seem to be markedly different. Strange .....
So it seems that generalizing is condemnable only if it doesn't serve one's purpose?
I guess your statement should cheer me up, because even though I had a "failed farang/Thai relationship" that lasted one and a half year till 2006, now have been enjoying a rather " successful farang/Thai relationship" for the last two-and-a-half years?
As I tried to point out in my last post, I am not passing judgement on you guys, especially not on Matt who has started this thread.
So I'd love to hear back from Matt in 2-3 years time, hearing what happened, and then I promise to be convinced ;)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't heard from Matt how he is going to finance their life in Khon Khaen - if he has won the lottery or has independent means and doesn't need to work anymore, that's a whole different situation compared to having to find a (teaching?) job in Isaan that will probably not pay very well. Then, taking care of the extended family might not be exactly feasible.
As one of your major points before was that I should have stayed in Thailand in order to not leave my bf alone "back there", I would be thrilled to hear about job opportunities in Thailand that guarantee you and your bf a secure life, even if you're not already wealthy and do not have an academic degree.
The living in Isaan on 2000B/month bit might have been misleading; I was in fact a volunteer at that time and didn't need to pay for accomodation. 2000B/month for food can go a long way in Isaan. What's more is that at that time, I didn't have a bf nor did I expect having one so soon. So there was no need for condoms and lube, and no demanding mother, sorry. I was a volunteer and had come to Thailand for "cultural experience" or whatever you want to call it. I lived in Thailand for nearly 2 years, and not everything happens at the same time, you know?
So would you object to the statement that - given you are working, and earning, let's say, 40K baht/month - your bf should still be working himself, be it only for 5K / month? Or do you think because you get the money, he should decide whether to work, study, or just watch TV? Just wondering.
I see your point that one shouldn't generalize. So let me express mea culpa again regarding my initial posts in this thread.
I can't help but think that "putting yourself on a pedestal" is not something completely alien to you, my friend. Anyway, let's have peace, if you will.
I'd love to hear "how it went" from Matt, in a year or two.
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Re: Best thing you can do for a Issan boy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiuri
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't heard from Matt how he is going to finance their life in Khon Khaen
Well, selling yabba of course. :-) No, I've been a software entrepreneur for the past 9 years. Don't own a company anymore, but nonetheless, I'm good at what I do, and considering this is Issan, it will more than afford us a comfortable life. I can do it anywhere in the world, so after meeting Kim, I decided might as well take advantage of the freedom, instead of sitting around in Canada.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiuri
So would you object to the statement that - given you are working, and earning, let's say, 40K baht/month - your bf should still be working himself, be it only for 5K / month? Or do you think because you get the money, he should decide whether to work, study, or just watch TV? Just wondering.
Definitely. Actually, I don't care what he does, but I just hold him he has to do something with his time, and has to apply himself somewhere. What he does, is up to him. Whether that's working, becoming a student, volunteering at the orphanage, helping build houses for Habitat for Humanity, or whatever. I don't care, as long as it's something, and I could care less if it makes money. His 5000 baht/month wouldn't affect our lives in any shape or form.
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Re: Best thing you can do for a Issan boy?
But if you apply that attitude how is Kim going to be motivated enough to apply himself to his full potential and gain the satisfaction you get from doing that?
Few people have the drive to achieve something worthy inside... most need something external (e.g. need money) and very real to push them.
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Re: Best thing you can do for a Issan boy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiuri
So it seems that generalizing is condemnable only if it doesn't serve one's purpose?
[X] Yes
No boy has any money. No boy runs. No boy runs fast. Every boy runs. Every boy runs fast. Only boys sleep.
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Re: Best thing you can do for a Issan boy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beachlover
But if you apply that attitude how is Kim going to be motivated enough to apply himself to his full potential and gain the satisfaction you get from doing that?
True in a way, but who says that's the path to happiness and fulfillment? Personally, I love working, as long as it's my own ideas and operations. I love being able to take an idea, and turning it into a fruitful operation that generates a decent cash flow, and watching it evolve. However, that's not for everyone, and I'd say that's more true for Issan folk than Westerners.
For example, what's wrong with just simply owning a small convenience store, which does laundry on the side, and being happy with that? Take some of the convenience stores in Sydney. I'm sure it's the same as Canada, where you see a family owned store, and the same lady sitting behind the counter everyday. She just sits there all day, sells stuff, and watches the little TV in her corner, then probably spends the nights with her family. No ambition to "make something" of herself, or anything. Yet, she seems absolutely thrilled to be alive, always smiling and cheerful, and I'd say happier than most high-ranking businessmen and white-collar individuals I know, and have met.
So honestly, I don't really see the need to push anything on him. He's not stupid, and he knows what this world's all about, so I'd prefer just to let him make his own choices, and be there to support him. More than likely, they'll be pretty good choices, as I don't fall in love with idiots. I give him a nudge here and there to keep him on his feet, but will never actively push him towards something. That's up to him, not me. My job is to simply let him know what doors are now open to him. It's up to him whether or not he wants to walk through any of them.
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Re: Best thing you can do for a Issan boy?
What kind of nudges are you giving little Kim cdmatt? I hope your not making him think too much.
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Re: Best thing you can do for a Issan boy?
You're probably much wiser than me, Matt... very insightful point well put.
I admit I make this mistake often... I see and interpret others' situations from my own eyes with my own values and getting distressed when I see them make these irrational (in my eyes) decisions, when really... they might be thrilled with that convenience store or hairdresser lifestyle.
You're right... everyone has different aspirations, values and paths to fulfillment. Understanding this must go a long way to getting on well with relationships.
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Re: Best thing you can do for a Issan boy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnmatt
True in a way, but who says that's the path to happiness and fulfillment? ..... So honestly, I don't really see the need to push anything on him.
Matt, I agree completely with your sentiments but my reservations, and possibly others', are not about Kim "making something of himself", but about what you see him doing to occupy his time while you are busy working every day. As I have said before, the devil finds work for idle hands and for young, impressionable people with time and money to spare, and it is not him (or you!) selling yaa-baa that seems the most likely problem - after all, one of this forum's favourite posters did point out that "There is a 70% chance your Thai boyfriend is a yaa-baa addict".
I am not insinuating anything, just pointing out a possibility.
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Re: Best thing you can do for a Issan boy?
Vietnamese lessons? What would be the point of that? I know that Vietnam is growing at an extremely rapid rate but Thailand is still a far more advanced country than Vietnam so why would Thais benefit from learning Vietnamese?
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Re: Best thing you can do for a Issan boy?
Vietnamese lessons: for the purpose of trade and cultural relations with Vietnam. Vietnam does a lot of (import) business with Thailand and there are quite a few Vietnamese students studying at Thai universities. So, in theory, a young Thai guy who could speak Vietnamese might be able to secure employment with a Thai exporter of goods to Vietnam.
In truth, I don't remember when or why I wrote "Vietnamese lessons". It would have made more sense if I had said "English lessons". Maybe the fact that I live in Vietnam led to the error.
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Re: Best thing you can do for a Issan boy?
Hi, I haven't followed your saga with Kim, the last I knew you were leaving him and had it with Issan. I think the older he gets and less attractive he becomes these things that annoy you and are most likely unchangeable as you are from 2 completely different worlds will take things to an inevitable end.
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Re: Best thing you can do for a Issan boy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manforallseasons
Hi, I haven't followed your saga with Kim, the last I knew you were leaving him and had it with Issan. I think the older he gets and less attractive he becomes these things that annoy you and are most likely unchangeable as you are from 2 completely different worlds will take things to an inevitable end.
This thread is 3 years old, so I'm not sure what the idiot above was thinking upon bumping it.
But no, Kim and myself are done, and I'm leaving with the dogs to Chiang Mai very shortly. Has nothing to do with him getting older. I'm not exactly getting younger and cuter, so it'd be pretty stupid for me to hold getting older against someone. But no, nothing to do with physical appearance at all. He's a good guy, but just a lazy cunt, and I'm tired of putting up with it.
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Re: Best thing you can do for a Issan boy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinzone
:laughing3:
OP are u totally effing stupid or what?
Your ludicrous suggestions like buying a house or funding a business for some issan boy whose cock or arse u happen to fancy for a while is just another example of how pathetically naive and gullible some of these 'more money than sense' farangs have when it comes to Thais.
Time and again the experienced ones on this web site try to warn against silly farangs throwing their wordly goods at these prostitutes but u have proven OP that sooner rather than later u will lose what if anything you have.
Mostly what is given to Thais goes to fuel drug or gambling habits or to help keep extended families in their lazy world of idleness and you OP are doing a shocking disservice by posting in this wholly irresponsible manner.
For fuck sake get real!
You were warned Matt. Your change in geography will do little to help despite the fact that Khor Tose is tempting you with fantasies of "showing you places he doesn't tell the tourists about." Yeah, sure... and no doubt you believe in the tooth fairy too.
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Re: Best thing you can do for a Issan boy?
I admire Matt for trying. "I told you so" is really not needed. If his friend had been a tad more ambitous the relationship might have lasted for many years.
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Re: Best thing you can do for a Issan boy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thai Dyed
You were warned Matt. Your change in geography will do little to help despite the fact that Khor Tose is tempting you with fantasies of "showing you places he doesn't tell the tourists about." Yeah, sure... and no doubt you believe in the tooth fairy too.
True, I was warned. But at least I tried, and I'm glad I did. I don't want to live a life where I'm too scared to take a risk, or venture into the unknown, because in my eyes, that's not a life worth living. Live and learn, and all that.
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Re: Best thing you can do for a Issan boy?
Well said, Matt. Good luck on the next stage of your journey.
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Re: Best thing you can do for a Issan boy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnmatt
I don't want to live a life where I'm too scared to take a risk, or venture into the unknown, because in my eyes, that's not a life worth living. Live and learn, and all that.
But what you really believed Matt was that you were taking the SAFEST route, not the riskiest. This is an all too common delusion. And it has been demonstrated time and again that people rarely "live and learn". They repeat the same mistakes over and over throughout their lives. You'll do it again in a different town and call it a "new adventure". Only the scenery changes, but the plot remains the same.
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Re: Best thing you can do for a Issan boy?
See Matt - not only can SGF members give expert advice on every subject under the sun, they can also predict the future - why go anywhere else!
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Re: Best thing you can do for a Issan boy?
Good luck Matt, fair play for at least trying !
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Re: Best thing you can do for a Issan boy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottish-guy
they can also predict the future
@ scottish-guy, It hardly takes a prophet to recognize an old and tiresome story.
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
Shakespeare, Macbeth Act 5, scene 5, 19тАУ28