Well I don't.
The bastard.
:D
Printable View
Well I don't.
The bastard.
:D
Seems I have missed quite a bit more than that today! And how could I possibly have underestimated your number of posts? An eye check is clearly called for or the magnifying glass I use needs to be stronger. :D
Two questions. Why should that be? Why is it not possible to attract more posters? This site - and I assume the others, too - states that it has large readership. Assuming that is correct, what is it they want to read and yet do not want to contribute? Curious!
And then, would it really be the end of this Board? I assume Moses bought into the site for a specific reason and not to throw money away. He has his own travel business interests which presumably could/would continue in some form.
Quote:
Originally Posted by a447
The most interesting regulars have already left, virtually left, or been banned.
All we are left with today in the way of 'regulars' is a small clique of nasty egotists who 'like' each other's posts, even when absolutely nothing of note is posted. They shout 'Hydra' the moment a newbie has the temerity to post. They feel compelled to comment on every thread, even when they have nothing of relevance to contribute and hence disenfranchise the remainder of 'irregular' posters, who might otherwise be inclined to post more frequently.
I liked your post just to annoy the fucker
:D
Minimee: Anyone is free to join the clique (nasty,,,really,,,coming from you?) and that includes you who spent the best part of this century harassing SG about his holiday plans. All it requires is to be a sane and balanced poster. Doesn't mean you can't dig, be snide, be rude and chuck insults and in fact have big fuck off argument both on the board and via pms. But if that's all you want to do then it's hard to see why you remain a member.
I've posted a number of times in the past as to why I believe we can't attract new posters. As long as we have members who spend most of their time here personally attacking others instead of focusing on the content of the posts, why would they want to? What's in it for them?
So what do they do? They join gaythailand.com or gaybuttonthai.com instead, neither of which tolerates such behaviour.
For some reason, the powers that be seem think keeping someone who constantly insults fellow posters is more beneficial to the board than attracting new members.
Recently there has been some discussion about the future of the boards. All three seem to be sustained by a small number of regular posters. Some of our previous posters have now moved boards. (Remember bucknaway? He hasn't posted here for ages.) As fountainhall points out, the others are content to just read and not contribute. So once that small cohort stops posting, who is going to fill their place?
A more important question would probably be: what incentive does this board offer to potential posters to entice them to post here, as opposed to them choosing the other boards?
Less and less and less gays are going to Thailand or retiring there. So there are less and less and less people to contribute to these forums.
....and, of course, the very idea of message boards/forums does not appeal to younger people who prefer the instant self-gratification of Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, Instagram, and a host of other things I've haven't even heard of
But you need to know these people. In a forum you can ask a question to the world, in your Facebook to your friends only.
A forum can not be compared to social media. The younger generation will also have demands which only a forum can fullfill.
Say you want to know which dildo is best, you will ask that in Facebook for everyone to read (including family)? No, you will ask it in a forum under an anonymous name. Forums fulfill a need, also for the younger generation.
Arsenal, SG, I was referring to those...err...older people who read this site but decide not to contribute.
They choose the other boards instead.
Well it has more to do with privacy darling. Not many people are comfortable asking their mother or grand mother which dildo to buy, or telling them in al honesty what they all do in Thailand. Etc.
For some topics forums are used, not social media. Also by the younger generation.
I don't like being attacked. But then I have not been immune to attacking one or two posters, so I'm as guilty as the others. But when I am 'got at' on the basis of lies, I will hit back, as I did with Sglad. MiniMee thinks we don't give newbies a chance. Well I did give this hydra more than a chance when others saw through him before I did. When he attacked me, I laid a trap about a Singapore chat site which every young Singaporean gay student would know about. Yet he didn't, and he could not answer the question without betraying his troll status. So his alter ego SugarGrandpa did - and in so doing not only exposed Sglad as a total fake but got him banned!
So yes we need to be careful with new posters. But then new posters should also take into some consideration how their posts will appear. And I think new posters should spend just a little time looking over recent threads and posts to familiarise themeless a bit with what is being posted and how. When questions are asked about a hotel, a general "what do you recommend?" is patently somewhat stupid when no indication is given of approx. desired location and particularly price. Yet this happens a lot more than it should!
As to one-time members here moving over to the other Boards, Gaybutton certainly keeps his members from attacking each other with his iron fist. But gaythailand now seems to have little or no moderation. Take a quick look at recent threads and it is clear there have been quite a few personal attacks in recent weeks, leading perhaps the most interesting relatively new poster to say he won’t post again because of attacks. That Board seems to lack any moderators now. Yet it still managed to get rid of a clutch of trolls not so long ago.
Frankly I can’t see much difference between the two, other than gaythailand is definitely more active and perhaps less Pattaya-centric.
I’m sure it’s true to suggest that there are less older gays visiting Thailand and perhaps even retiring here. But the fact is that the posting base here reflects only the tip of the large iceberg of those who actually are already retired here - and most of that tip either lives in Pattaya or spends most of its time there. Yet in Bangkok there must be many thousands of gay expats who never go near a chat forum. A few years ago there were 3 retired gay expats living on the same floor as me in my condo. I asked each if they read any of the chat forums. Not only did they not read them, they had never even heard of them!
But for many younger guys, that is just not the case! Especially here in Asia. Take Singapore for example. I caught out Sglad with my references to a Singapore gay chat site Blowing Wind. That has 35,000 members with a vastly higher number of posting members than any of the Thailand Boards. It also permits guests to post and so its number of threads and active posters puts the Thailand Boards to shame! It also has about 5 moderators who do keep the posters from attacking each other. They also have a flaming room which, I believe, used to be the case here. Would it increase participation to open the forum up to non-members?
Judging from the content, the average age seems to be somewhere between 25 and 35 with a lot of young guys who are in the 18 - 22 range (a lot of talk about being gay and having to go through the 2-year National Service training). I can't be bothered checking on its background and it's clear that some of the posts are very much geared to a far younger generation. Yet its subject layout is interesting. One is the Travellers Hut section. This has 27 pinned threads on different cities/countries, including Bangkok, Chiang Mai, Phuket and as far away as Australia, Japan and even Dubai!. But, surprisingly, not one pinned thread on Pattaya, Cambodia or Laos. So young Singaporeans clearly have very little interest in Pattaya. I know from my young gay Taiwan friends they feel the same. So if Asian youngsters in general have no interest in Pattaya, is its long-term future as a gay sex destination doomed? And yet, in the last 2 years on that site, there have been 41 pages of posts (and there are lots on a page) just about Bangkok!
No.
The powers that be, simply pay the bills and moderate based on what few rules govern this Board. If you want more rules, please let me know! If you'd like to buy the site and make your own rules up, let me know!
I said this before, I will say it again...please leave the CIA work up to me. Provided someone isn't currently posting as two members at the same time, they are not breaking the rules. Some members have been banned and have come back under new names. One member in particular has been banned so many time, he could easily be mistaken for a hydra if you put all those personalities together here at the same time...but that didn't really happen.
The reason new members don't survive here is because you pounce on them, thinking they are either Kommie, Homintern or Beachlover. Beachlover has not returned, Homintern is dead and Kommie is back under a new...or not so new name. Just because you hate him, doesn't make it within our rules for me to ban or muzzle him.
If you're unhappy with the rules or the lack of rules...I can't help you without the rest of the members being onbaord with the idea.
Surfcrest
So, now I get it.Quote:
Some members have been banned and have come back under new names. One member in particular has been banned so many time (sic), .....
If you are banned, all you need to do is re-register with a new name and you're back on again!
And you can just keep changing your handle , time and time again!
Awesome!
Has anyone seriously ever suggested that - that it's a kind of popularity contest?? I don't think so.Quote:
Just because you hate him, doesn't make it within our rules....
Criticism from others is to be expected, as it goes with the territory. Not everyone agrees with what we post. If you don't like critiscm, don't post.
However, harassment is a totally different type of issue. I thought it was against the rules, but obviously not. Silly old me!
I'd better read the rules for I fail to understand how any member can be banned and then unbanned! Is there something like a sin bin where, after a period in the wilderness, one is allowed back? It seems now to be the case here. It was certainly the case on gaythailand. The poster LMTU was banned. But being a good friend of Michael, the owner, an exception was made and he was permitted back under a different name HeyGay, despite his unique (read "puerile") style of posting and the facts he always claimed to be the truth being, shall we say, more than a little dodgy. And then he had to banned yet again!
I have written on another thread that Beachlover fooled moderators and was tolerated for far too long. It finally took a Board revolt to get him kicked off gaythailand despite the owner liking his posting and wishing to keep him as a member. Yet even BL found his way back to that gaythailand Board - as unearthed by the poster Khortose. And under this different handle he remains today a member in good standing! To be fair, after a typical Beachlover posting blitz in early 2013 he retreated into the undergrowth. But his handle remains as a member.
But I am not a Board owner and would not wish to be one. So I have to accept that this forum is run by others and they make the rules.
Back on topic, though, I will set myself up to be shot down. I believe, as the gaythailand rules state (the ones that no-one can now read and few seem to bother reading), discussions on a forum should be akin to a group of people/friends having discussions in a pub over a drink. I always rather liked that simple analogy. Yet discussions involve differing points of view and backing each up in some sort of reasoned manner. In an internet chat room - the many that I have seen, not merely those involving Thailand - once posters get to know each other in the forum, reasoned discussion often goes out of the window in place of the 1- or 2- line put down, quip, piece of one-upmanship that is usually a sort of I-know-that-better-than-you ego trip. Yeah, I know. If we didn't have egos we wouldn't be posting. But it's my belief it is these 1- and 2-liners that turn potential readers from becoming members and members from finally giving up.
A forum like this could survive even for young people , as already been discussed you can't ask any questions on Facebook unless you want the whole world to know,
So anonymous forums do have a future , Young guys that want to hook up will use the apps anyway , but for information from experienced travellers to Thailand nothing can replace a forum and it would still be my first choice if I want to ask questions .
I agree. But where is the younger generation of posters? I know we have a sprinkling of 40s and 50s here, but are there any members younger than 40? And are questions ever raised by those in their 20s? Should there be a special section of the forum for those under, say, 40 - or even 30?
It really would be quite interesting to know the average age of those who do post even occasionally.
This very question was possed to the membership of Gaybuttonthai.
Members were asked to state their age(voluntarily)1 or 2 stated they were under 50.....some as high as 76..... most who responded fell in the age group of 60-67....Only a guess, but I imagine those statistics wouldn't change much if the same question was possed here.
Wait, these are gay guys you're talking about - and not just that but gay guys on the Internet !
If they admit to being 50 you can be damn sure it's safe to add 10 years to that, and maybe even 20!
Therefore any conclusions based on stated ages must be taken with a very large pinch of salt
:D
I'm 29, a multimillionaire, have an Asian BF, own many apartments throughout Thailand and fly everywhere first class.........oh, no, wait, that's Beachlover I thinking of !! lol
Seriously.......I'm 48......I don't see why people would object to sharing that information with others or feel the need to lie about it - oh no again wait, as SG's says it IS the internet and a gay forum......hmmmm yeah so as I said I'm 38. ( No I I really am 48 ! :)))
But i should add that that's only 48 and 7 weeks and 2 days.......so a LOT closer to 47 than 48 really....... can you tell someone hasn't QUITE got their head aound being 48 yet !! as I'm still at the WHAT I'm 48 !!! WTF !! As based on my previous partying and general debaucherous lifestyle I didn't even expect to live to 40 and now I'm 48 ! How the hell did THAT happen !! :-( Mind I should just be pleased that it did. Now, if only I could stop various bits falling off me and breaking down every day when I wake up now it seems I'd be delighted.
Seems I am the youngest poster here, just celebrated by 19th birthday this past Feb. 29.
The number of "active" posters can't be much more than 10% of the stated numbers.
I think the question then has to be - how is it that the vast majority of those members either have not posted or have made a few posts and then disappeared? I really would like to see more posters but it is not happening. And suggesting that new posters are sometimes thought to be trolls surely does not account for the "new" members failing to post. Of course we have to remember that there are reasons for joining SGT other than posting. Siam Roads must have quite a number of guys joining up. But without new posting blood, this forum will merely soldier on with a few regulars keeping it alive - or until it just dies due to lack of interest!
Well young people travelling to Thailand and who are gay might post questions in bigger international forums like tripadvisor or other travel forums , I think there is also a LGBT forum for travellers. You can still be anonymous if you prefer.
And a forum named sawatdeenetwork is maybe not the first that will pop-up on google if you search for gay + Thailand..
"logging in" to a forum and "posting" to a forum are two very different things. So basically over the last 6 months this forum has 1,046 members of which 421 have logged in in the last six months (that means they have logged into read posts) and you probably have 10 to 15 who post regularly.
In regards to the internet those aren't bad stats. The reality is rather than focusing on people who "post" you might want to focus on increasing the number of total members. Increase that number and you will see the number of logins increase and then the eventually the number of people who post increase.
Its kind of like advertising on the internet. You place an ad on a site, like Facebook, where it gets seen by like 750,000 people, of which 150,000 click on it (and that is considered awesome) then you get three people to actually buy something (and that is considered REALLY awesome).
The truth of the matter is you might have to advertise the site, and the best place to place ads to start might be on gay porn sites; I am sure there would be a few friendly new members visiting these sites who might be interested in traveling to Thailand.
I am not sure about Google search, not sure how many people google "gay thailand" in a day and how much it would cost to move up the food chain as paid content.
The internet is a wonderful thing in so many ways but you got to realize that there are over a billion websites and its easy to get lost when you are one in a billion. Then when you complicate the search by realizing that most people are searching the web on cellphones nowadays, which are not really conducive to search you got to be up on the first four or five of listings to even be potentially a link that could get a click.
Then you compound the problem by the fact that you are in reality a forum about traveling to Thailand/Asia and then you realize the following:
One of the problems you have as a forum is that it is dead within the forum here in the United States during the day as most members who post or might post live in Asia, which is 12 hours ahead of the United States, time wise. So, when you all wake up and log on we are going to bed and vice versa.
Second problem, you are all freelancers; everyone can pretty much say and do what they want. There is not a SawatDeeForum "Welcoming Committee" and thus, the forum owners have no way of controlling the perception of the product to new members and no way to get long time members to post something every now and then.
We been moved to new forum almost year ago. Before moving SGT had 802 registered users (old statistic is here http://sawatdeenetwork.com/forum/ )
After "cleanup" members who wasn't active over 5 years we made transfer to new forum about 580 members, now forum has 1000+ members. Year ago we had 200+ "active members", now - 400+
Those numbers however true are misleading of the "400 active users" the real number is more likely in the realm of 20.
Participating in this thread, are several members who have been banned or quit and came back as something else. While I would love to take personal credit for all of that, I cannot. The majority of the members were banned at one time by someone else and were invited back when I took over the site. Two of the members, AsDaRa and Khor Tose were banned by me. When we updated the software, AsDaRa was automatically reactivated by the system and so I decided to give him another chance, provided he does not break the rule he broke before. Same with my dear friend Khor Tose, who published something he shouldn't have on the Protests thread. I am happy to have both members back, Khor Tose goes back to the beginning with us.
Back when we had the previous software, I had several added on security features that were designed to protect the site from Neal and Ron.It allowed me to protect the site from single hackers trying to have fun with us or register as a member and be up to no good. Now a days, the threat is much bigger and comes from an army of hackers and so our defenses, thanks to Moses are more automated. Even a lot of the moderation that I used to do manually is done by automation and I'm only really needed for site promotion and reviewing new members for spam etc...
I'm here everyday working on stuff, but I don't read every thread. Things get flagged to my attention to take a look at.
I have a lot of things going on in my private and business life. If I were on vacation in Thailand, I might be here everyday posting and participating in all the discussions, but I simply don't have the time these days. I turn 55 this year and am thinking about retiring and so this may all change. Until then though, I'll continue to pay the bills and keep things running with my dear friend Moses.
This is your Board, the members. It's what you want it to be. I'm simply donating time and money.
Surfcrest
So now with that data, thanks to Moses, this forum has doubled in size in a year and doubled the number of logins in six months.
THAT paints a totally opposite picture of what everyone else is claiming.
Hmmm, makes me wonder....maybe the gay bar scene in Thailand is booming and better than it was in the past..... :))
Is that in fact correct? Surely you don't need to log in just to read posts? I believe anyone can read posts. The only things non-members can not see are attachments.
I can see this would be of interest in a thread where that is moving very fast. But I have no problem responding to posts that are 12 or more hours old. I just can't see what the problem is.
As to the first part, again isn't that just the nature of the internet and every chat forum? The civility of face-to-face conversation simply disappears and it becomes open-season. It's easy to get worked up and go over the top. Reply to a post after a night out in a bar and you are likely to use considerably stronger language than in the cold night of morning. I don't see that is ever going to change.
But I wholly agree with the second point which I see as being part of brand imaging. Brand image, enhancement and value is a vital part of most businesses. Yet when it comes to chat forums, it's hard to see that it actually exists beyond a few infinitesimal ways. Having a product that is in some way "unique" so that it stands out from the others is part of this. And I hope SGT can develop a few new ideas that encourage more posters - and especially more younger posters. That may mean that regular posters have to give them greater leeway than at present. And perhaps TaoR is right: a section of the site for new posters where the usual put-downs, one-upmanship of regular posters is withheld for a certain time. I remember it took me months before I started to post on gaythailand and I was actually quite concerned how my posts would be received.
That said, stopping trolls and hydras like sglad will always be difficult. Sglad's first posts were perfectly reasonable - unless, as some did, you found it inconceivable that a 20-something Singapore student in Chiang Mai would even bother posting on a Board where the average age is likely to be in the 60s! The red flags should have gone up when he started attacking other posters with clearly fake arguments. Yet they didn't! So moderation would have to be more active. Would the owners/current membership accept a greater degree of moderation in such a section of the site?
PS: Surfcrest's post above was posted as I was composing this. I am certain we are all more than grateful to him and Moses for keeping the site going and developing it. As he says, he is very busy and cannot read every post . I am sure the same is true with Moses - until a post or thread is red-flagged to them. So again I wonder: would the appointment of another moderator help?
http://sawatdeenetwork.com/v4/showth...light=jeffries
Once upon a time we had a wonderful moderator who did a thankless job for years and years.
I think of him often :heart:
Surfcrest
After a disagreement with Surfcrest I've decided I can't stay on this board any longer. So for the foreseeable future I will no longer be an active poster on this board (unless the need arises), but will concentrate on posting on gaythailand and gaybutton, both of which had seen a resurgence in popularity recently, it would seem. Gaythailand,in particular, has been rejuvenated with a large increase in new members.
I want to leave the house quietly and not storm out slamming the door behind me, so that's all I'll say.
As many members here have also joined the other boards I'm looking forward to chatting to you over there. Although I'm leaving the house I am not handing back the key so I can continue to exchange PM's with others.
No hard feelings.
Cheers!
A447