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Re: New bar opened in old Topman,the Scotland Discussion
Fair comment, Thaiguest.
But surely, as an intelligent person, you must realise that "solid business types" do not hold the key to winning the Referendum - nor are their views representative.
The Referendum will be won in the streets and on the doorsteps amongst the working-class and the disenfranchised. People who have to live in the real, ordinary, hard world, and who do not trust what a partisan media and multi-millionaire "captains of industry" tell them - i.e. that Scotland is (uniquely in the world) somehow incapable of running itself and that if she decides to do so the sky would fall down within a week. That is why the momentum is all one way - away from NO and towards YES - the YES camp have thousands of trained activists out on the streets night after night while NO tries to run a media scare campaign because they have next to no activists on the ground.
So, maybe take the views you are hearing with a pinch of salt.
Further the prediction you make 60/40 for NO, is quite bizarre since NO is under 50% at the moment and YES is over 40% (with "don't knows" excluded). To reach the result you suggest would require a complete reversal of the momentum which has taken YES from just over 20% to over 40% and NO down from 70% down to less than 50%. Just doesn't make sense - and I'd advise that you don't put too much money on it! But as you suggest, time will tell.
Meantime, thanks for interesting debate.
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Re: New bar opened in old Topman,the Scotland Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottish-guy
Fair comment, Thaiguest.
But surely, as an intelligent person, you must realise that "solid business types" do not hold the key to winning the Referendum - nor are their views representative.
The Referendum will be won in the streets and on the doorsteps amongst the working-class and the disenfranchised. People who have to live in the real, ordinary, hard world, and who do not trust what a partisan media and multi-millionaire "captains of industry" tell them - i.e. that Scotland is (uniquely in the world) somehow incapable of running itself and that if she decides to do so the sky would fall down within a week. That is why the momentum is all one way - away from NO and towards YES - the YES camp have thousands of trained activists out on the streets night after night while NO tries to run a media scare campaign because they have next to no activists on the ground.
So, maybe take the views you are hearing with a pinch of salt.
Further the prediction you make 60/40 for NO, is quite bizarre since NO is under 50% at the moment and YES is over 40% (with "don't knows" excluded). To reach the result you suggest would require a complete reversal of the momentum which has taken YES from just over 20% to over 40% and NO down from 70% down to less than 50%. Just doesn't make sense - and I'd advise that you don't put too much money on it! But as you suggest, time will tell.
Meantime, thanks for interesting debate.
Don't get me wrong I'm not against Scottish Independence .
The feedback I'm getting is not looking good for your hopes. My sources are people involved in the tweed trade.
Perhaps they make up a certain demographic but if they do one of them is a Scottish Pakistani if that's the correct term.
Good luck with the campaign.
Slainte!
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Re: New bar opened in old Topman,the Scotland Discussion
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Re: New bar opened in old Topman,the Scotland Discussion
Note to scottish-guy - read the caption on the first pic - http://bangkokbois-gay-thailand-blog.co ... -friday-8/
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Re: New bar opened in old Topman,the Scotland Discussion
You mean "Real Men Don't Wear Kilts"?
Well.....whatever.............I've never laid claim to being a "real man" (whatever that might be), I've always been quite happy to be 100% unnatural.
IMHO the Bangkokbois author needs to get back to working on the Sunday Funnies - I'm sure we all miss them. Then again, with the almost total demise of Beachlover I guess the material has substantially dried up!!
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Re: New bar opened in old Topman,the Scotland Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottish-guy
IMHO the Bangkokbois author needs to get back to working on the Sunday Funnies - I'm sure we all miss them. Then again, with the almost total demise of Beachlover I guess the material has substantially dried up!!
"The almost total demise of Beachlover".......now the demise of tbb. Sweet!!
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Re: New bar opened in old Topman,the Scotland Discussion
It seems the young have great common sense: less than a third will vote for Scottish independence and we all know who Obama's rooting for - "Yes We Can" is now "No, You Shouldn't"
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Re: New bar opened in old Topman,the Scotland Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottish-guy
Quote:
Originally Posted by giggsy
...You still haven't answered the question of if Scotland does vote "yes" do you think the Shetland isles should have a vote to join Norway or in fact any other country of their choosing ?...
I did answer it - I said quite clearly that there is no evidence whatsoever that the Shetlanders want to have such a referendum (really you're just making stuff up now).
You would do well to remember that the only reason Scotland is having a referendum is that the SNP won a landslide in the 2011 election with the Referendum as the central plank in their manifesto.
So, the position is that if the Shetlanders do indeed want a referendum, then they need to find candidates willing to stand on that platform and then to elect them! That's how democracy works! Once they have done that, they can discuss a referendum with the Government of an independent Scotland.quote]
Hey Scotty are you still pretending to be blind and deaf about the question of Shetland Isles wanting a referendum on independence from Scotland. Others are clambering to join Shetland with the Western Isles and Orkney wanting to stay within the UK and I repeat have nothing to do with that chancer and wanna be oligarch Salmond. I think he has reached his peak now and the dirty tricks will start soon finding dirt on him and discrediting him. I hope you didn't put too much money on a yes vote victory now Neal is no longer around and its safe for you to go back to Thailand.
You may (or not) enjoy some reading on the subject.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-i ... -1-2841537
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/sho ... dence-vote
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... tland.html
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Re: New bar opened in old Topman,the Scotland Discussion
Why on earth would I wish to read English-owned Unionist newspapers for a view on the Scottish Independence referendum? :|
By the way, THIS is what you're defending:
[attachment=0:3geyqeun]Br0Q6HpIUAAEgv3.jpg large.jpg[/attachment:3geyqeun]
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Re: New bar opened in old Topman,the Scotland Discussion
Latest odds from the bookmakers:
NO vote 1/7 (ie. unbackable odds-on)
YES vote 5/1 (ie. why-would-you-waste-your-money odds against)
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Re: New bar opened in old Topman,the Scotland Discussion
And yet the latest poll put only 4% gap between YES and NO (undecideds excluded), therefore only a 2% swing is required for parity and 3% for YES to win
Three separate polls last weekend had YES up 4% in a week and NO down 4%
Plus, YES voters are far more likely to vote than NO, and pundits think that could be worth 2% to YES
Also, Wm Hill saying over 90% of bets in Scotland are for YES.
So, it's credible to suggest there's some manipulation of the odds going on from south of the border - with 2 widely reported (in the mainstream media) huge bets of ┬г200,000 being placed by NO supporters. ┬г400,000 on NO is bound to affect the odds.
Bookmakers odds reflect the money placed on each possible outcome, nothing more.
http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/
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Re: New bar opened in old Topman,the Scotland Discussion
You're doubtless familiar with Burns' To A Louse
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Re: New bar opened in old Topman,the Scotland Discussion
My dear boy, I'm as familiar with the Burns poem "To a Louse" as he must have been to you when he wrote it.
:))
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Re: New bar opened in old Topman,the Scotland Discussion
[attachment=0:3kjco7mc]wishful_thinking180.jpg[/attachment:3kjco7mc]
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Re: New bar opened in old Topman,the Scotland Discussion
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Re: New bar opened in old Topman,the Scotland Discussion
Some months ago I would have put the prospect of Scottish independence at 60/40 against.
I get the feeling that the difference is as thin as a haggis skin now that decision time is nigh.
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Re: New bar opened in old Topman,the Scotland Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by thaiguest
Some months ago I would have put the prospect of Scottish independence at 60/40 against. I get the feeling that the difference is as thin as a haggis skin now that decision time is nigh.
For me the most entertaining outcome would be a win for the "Yes" vote of something like 50.1%. We'd then be able to watch Alex Salmonella running around trying to make it work while anyone with any money or/and an ounce of self-preservation would be moving their money and probably themselves to England.
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Re: New bar opened in old Topman,the Scotland Discussion
That would be the rump UK (England) ┬г1.6 trillion in debt, governed by a Tory/UKIP coalition/confidence & supply Govt after 2015, devoid of North Sea Oil revenues, 1/3 of its land mass, 9% of its population, saddled with unwanted unaffordable and unusable WMDs, and fast tracking itself out of the EU?
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Re: New bar opened in old Topman,the Scotland Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottish-guy
That would be the rump UK (England) ┬г1.6 trillion in debt, governed by a Tory/UKIP coalition/confidence & supply Govt after 2015, devoid of North Sea Oil revenues, 1/3 of its land mass, 9% of its population, saddled with unwanted unaffordable and unusable WMDs, and fast tracking itself out of the EU?
Dinna fash yersel, laddie. North Sea oil revenues are falling and the 9% of the population is greying more rapidly than us. I'm not sure of the logic of someone who wants to fast track his own country out of a common market (the UK) but sees England fast tracking itself out of the other common market (the EU) as a significant problem. I'd join the dots, if I were you. Your argument reminds me of the gaggle of blondes who enter a bar chanting "24 weeks, 24 weeks". When challenged by the barman their spokeswoman replies "We did the jigsaw in only 24 weeks but on the box it says '2 - 4 years'".
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Re: New bar opened in old Topman,the Scotland Discussion
1. Oh, what a burden it will be when the "falling oil revenues" from the remaining 24 Billion barrels of oil (UK Oil & Gas UK estimate) have to be shared amongst 5 million ppl instead of 65 million :)) What utter tosh!
2. This just in - people age at the same rate the world over. Problem for Scotland is that currently our young people have to LEAVE to find opportunities, and we are saddled with an inappropriate immigration policy which e.g. throws qualified students out as soon as they graduate - therefore we have fewer working age people to support the retired. With full control we can reduce economic emigration and also have a controlled immigration policy in place to suit Scotland rather than the South East of England. Our country is half empty - plenty of scope to grow the economy. Our older people don't age quicker, but unfortunately they do DIE a lot sooner, so with a growing workforce the problem is manageable.
3. How exactly would an independent Scotland be fast-tracking itself out of the UK market? Are you advocating a Scottish trade boycott by the rump UK? If so, you realise that would be illegal under EU law? Ridiculous argument!
You are the personification of the NO campaign - all doom and gloom and nothing positive to say whatsoever. Scotland can be an extremely successful independent nation, but all you want to do is be 100% negative and run us down. Well the response to that is in the polls today narrowing yet further - we are going to win this, YES has the momentum. NO has nothing to offer except austerity and despair - and you're welcome to it.
:ymparty:
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Re: New bar opened in old Topman,the Scotland Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottish-guy
Scotland can be an extremely successful independent nation.
Just as it was in 1707.
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Re: New bar opened in old Topman,the Scotland Discussion
Are you referring to the Darien Scheme?
The English put pressure on their allies/colonies not to deal with the Scots (nobles) who had invested heavily in this scheme - precisely to force Scotland into Union. Scotland was not broke - it was a case of influential people having been shafted, having lost money, and then being offered substantial bribes to recoup their losses by selling their country down the river.
The myth that Scotland entered the Union willingly is simply that - there were riots in the streets - but ordinary people had no say in the matter.
So, if you're going to bring up stuff from 3 centuries ago, at least be knowledgeable in the subject and, secondly, realise it has fuck all relevance to 2014
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Re: New bar opened in old Topman,the Scotland Discussion
Surely the relevance is that a small country is always at risk from larger countries acting against the small country's interests, no matter whether it is three years or three hundred years ago. Look at Russia and Ukraine (or even Russia and any of the countries that formerly made up its empire). Whenever a decision comes up that could go either way, are you convinced the decision never goes (never explicitly stated, of course) as "Oh, fuck 'em"? An independent Scotland got right royally fucked over in 1707; there's nothing to stop that happening over and over again for an independent Scotland in the future. It's called realpolitik.
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Re: New bar opened in old Topman,the Scotland Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottish-guy
That would be the rump UK (England) ┬г1.6 trillion in debt, governed by a Tory/UKIP coalition/confidence & supply Govt after 2015, devoid of North Sea Oil revenues, 1/3 of its land mass, 9% of its population, saddled with unwanted unaffordable and unusable WMDs, and fast tracking itself out of the EU?
Quote:
Originally Posted by [url=http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/13/scottish-independence-change-england-more-jk-rowling
Deborah Orr in The Guardian[/url]]The kneejerk, sentimental, victim-mentality, Hate-the-English-colonisers patriotism that some Scots display is pretty much the most unappealing of Scotland's products.
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Re: New bar opened in old Topman,the Scotland Discussion
In response to your first post above - nobody in Scotland is saying Independence will be easy, but we think we have ability to create something new.
Of course we accept there are dangers in the world, but we are not about to be invaded by Russia or anybody else (nor by aliens as one prominent NO campaigner recently alleged).
Tell you what, Kommie, name me just ONE of those countries which has gained its Independence from UK (or anybody else) and which wants to revert to being subservient?
Last week I listened to a BBC radio sketch report on Slovakia. That country has had its problems, including establishing a new currency and central bank (something iScotland would be uniquely incapable of, apparently) - but the BBC reporter had to scour Bratislava to find ONE guy willing to suggest that they would be better off re-uniting with the Czechs.
In response to your second post, you spectacularly miss the point - I'm merely illustrating why rump UK will be not only amenable to, but desperate for, negotiation.
Even now the UK currency is tumbling as the markets face up to the likely** prospect of UK (┬г1.6tn in debt by 2016) losing 8.25 of GDP (without counting Oil and Gas revenues), ~90% of those Oil & Gas revenues, 1/3 land mass, & 8.3% of population.
The current UK position of non-negotiation and NO to currency union, simply cannot hold. My prediction is that a loose form of CU (not full CU, as UK colours have very stupidly been nailed to the mast on that one) will be agreed as a transitional arrangement (say 10yrs) until iScotland introduces its own currency. The markets will demand it. The comedian Kevin Bridges suggests we call a new Scottish currency the "Smackeroonie", but I'm open on the name :))
** Finally, Kommie, hope you didn't bet your shirt, when you were crowing about those bookies odds: I'm delighted to show you the front page of today's Sunday Herald (reporting the Times of London's latest poll)
[attachment=0:15cgces8]Bw4fErQCIAACg3g.jpg[/attachment:15cgces8]
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Re: New bar opened in old Topman,the Scotland Discussion
I see on the news today that the British government has offered greater power to Edinburgh if Scotland votes "no".
Sounds like panic on the government benches to me. If this goes on Alban may be independent BEFORE the referendum.
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Re: New bar opened in old Topman,the Scotland Discussion
I have read a piece on this at BBC site - comments by readers being the most interesting part. There is a lot of (thinly covered) animosity and one recurring theme: the effect of the vote result on the rUK politics. Everyone is expressing their views on how the Labour will be done in case of "yes" and how the Conservatives will be celebrating. Seems to me many still do not think there is a possibility that Farange will be writing the Queen's speech for the opening of the Parliament very soon.
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Re: New bar opened in old Topman,the Scotland Discussion
The next UK General Election must happen in 2015. Following a YES vote, Scotland will not become independent until 2016.
Therefore, a full contingent of 59 Scottish MPs must be voted into the UK Parliament in 2015 and, since an MP can not be sacked or forced to resign, they'd be technically entitled to sit there until 2020 - although it would be ridiculous for them do do so if Independence occurs in the target year of 2016. However they would certainly sit in Parliament until the point of Independence if it ran into delays. At the point of independence, the UK parliament would have to hope they would do the decent thing and resign en masse.
The political complexion of that "intake" is of course unknown but in the recent past it had benefited the Labour party to the tune of around 40MPs. That may not be the case in 2015 as the SNP may make a powerful case for electing their candidates for the purposes of strengthening their hand in the ongoing independence negotiations with the UK Govt.
However, lets assume it IS the case and Labour loses 40 MPS - will it effect the overall result? Recent history says no - without Scotland, Labour would still have won in 1997 (with a majority of 139, down from 179), in 2001 (129, down from 167) and in 2005 (43, down from 66), but those were very good years for Labour and a future close result could certainly see their bid for power thwarted by the loss of those 40 MPS.
Having said all that, lots of things could happen to upset the applecart - for example, if he loses Scotland, Cameron might resign (resulting in a more popular Tory leader who might revive their fortunes) or force an early General Election by conspiring to lose a vote of confidence - which might well result in a Tory/UKIP coalition or confidence & supply pact (current polling has Tory/UKIP at 48% v Labour on 36%)
Also, its entirely possible that Scotland votes NO, and none of these possibilities comes to pass.
Interesting times.
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Re: New bar opened in old Topman,the Scotland Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by thaiguest
I see on the news today that the British government has offered greater power to Edinburgh if Scotland votes "no".
Sounds like panic on the government benches to me. If this goes on Alban may be independent BEFORE the referendum.
Its a rapidly moving situation with lots of smoke, mirrors, and utter farce.
Chancellor Osborne at 9am carelessly suggested that a "new offer" would be made by UK Govt next week - unfortunately forgetting the UK Govt simply cannot do that as we are in a period of "purdah" whereby no new offers can be made by either side, and that tens of thousands have already voted by post. "Purdah" is normally voluntary but Alex Salmond had craftily got the UK Govt to agree to commit to it in the Edinburgh Agreement which legitimised the referendum (probably expecting that NO would make a last-minute offer.
The Secretary of State for Scotland then had to be wheeled on to the BBC at 11am and confused everybody by suggesting that these powers were the same ones being talked about for months. After that did not clarify the situation, the leader of the NO campaign was forced on to SKY news around 3pm (appearing an hour late after frantic behind the scenes discussions) and has now said that only a timetable for implementation and NO NEW POWERS will be announced.
Its a further shambles for a campaign that has let a 20-25% lead slip
:ymparty:
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Re: New bar opened in old Topman,the Scotland Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottish-guy
Interesting times.
Au contraire - entertaining times.
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Re: New bar opened in old Topman,the Scotland Discussion
Some months ago I was sceptical about an ind Scotland remaining in sterling and you were adamant that it could not be prevented from doing so.
TODAY no lesser personage than Mark Carey, governor of the Bank of England declared that Scotland could not keep sterling because it would be "incompatible with sovereignty"
Don't shoot me as a mere messenger please.
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Re: New bar opened in old Topman,the Scotland Discussion
Me son is over in the Old Country at the moment and he called me up the other night. He said theyd had a vote down at his pub after some of the folks their made some speeches. The YES vote won about 70% to 30%.
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Re: New bar opened in old Topman,the Scotland Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by thaiguest
...no lesser personage than Mark Carey, governor of the Bank of England declared that Scotland could not keep sterling because it would be "incompatible with sovereignty. Don't shoot me as a mere messenger please.
Not shooting you but you have misheard/misinterpreted - what Carney is saying is that a Currency Union between iScotland and rUK would, in his view, be "incompatible with sovereignty". This is because rUK would inevitably demand controls over iScotland's fiscal policies etc. - therefore iScotland would have to (in his words) "cede some sovereignty". Given that Scotland has zero sovereignty right now, that seems acceptable as a short-term measure.
What Carney specifically did not say, is that iScotland could not use the ┬г sterling!
This can done outside of formal currency union, is known as "sterlingisation", and was conceded on live TV by the leader of the Unionist campaign, no lesser personage than former UK Chancellor of the Exchequer, Alastair Darling.
That is the point I was making and to which you refer. Even the dogs in the street know this is the Scottish Govts "Plan B"
It's our ┬г as much as it's the rest of the UK's ┬г, and we're keeping it.
BrisbaneGuy - it certainly wont be 70/30 (I wish) - what we have seen in the past few days is the entire co-ordinated might of the British establishment being unleashed against the YES campaign, with favours being called in from big business to tell us how shite we are. I will settle for 50.1%
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Re: New bar opened in old Topman,the Scotland Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottish-guy
BrisbaneGuy - it certainly wont be 70/30 (I wish) - what we have seen in the past few days is the entire co-ordinated might of the British establishment being unleashed against the YES campaign, with favours being called in from big business to tell us how shite we are.
Well it was in a London pub and the YES vote was based on "Pleased to get rid of them" I hear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottish-guy
I will settle for 50.1%
A great way to start a new country 49.9% of people against you.
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Re: New bar opened in old Topman,the Scotland Discussion
BrisbaneGuy,
Firstly - iScotland would not be a "new" country - we've been around since well before Australians arrived off the prison ship, and were independent for several hundred years before some powerful people were bribed to sell us down the river.
Secondly - ethnic Londoners would be pleased to get rid of anybody who doesn't live within a 30 mile radius. You will hear them say exactly the same about people from the North of England. They're a pretty intolerant bunch, not at all the friendly, singing chimney-sweeps you saw in Mary Poppins, dear.
Thirdly - if the UK is so wonderful, when will Australia be proposing to rejoin mother England? Do let me know so we can send some of OUR politicians over during the campaign to tell Australians what they ought to do.
Fourthly - funnily enough, it seems that self-determination is a "good thing" for everybody except the Scots. Even the Americans whose former President, Woodrow Wilson (maternal grandparents both Scottish) so vociferously expounded the principle of S-D have given us their tuppence-worth with Obama having had his balls squeezed by Cameron and provided with suitable pro-Union rhetoric to mouth.
Finally - it seems rather curious that you seem to regard a minority ~35% of the vote as a sufficient democratic mandate for Tony Blair to sanction the murder of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, yet a majority 50.1% of the vote for independence would be sneered at.
I think you have a few opinions you need to think through.
:ymparty:
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Re: New bar opened in old Topman,the Scotland Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottish-guy
Firstly - iScotland would not be a "new" country - we've been around since well before Australians arrived off the prison ship, and were independent for several hundred years before some powerful people were bribed to sell us down the river.
Having a chip on your should is not a cahearant philosophy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottish-guy
Secondly - ethnic Londoners would be pleased to get rid of anybody who doesn't live within a 30 mile radius. You will hear them say exactly the same about people from the North of England. They're a pretty intolerant bunch, not at all the friendly, singing chimney-sweeps you saw in Mary Poppins, dear.
So? Are Scots? Not from what I see you right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottish-guy
Thirdly - if the UK is so wonderful, when will Australia be proposing to rejoin mother England? Do let me know so we can send some of OUR politicians over during the campaign to tell Australians what they ought to do.
Australia done share a contiguarse boarder with England.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottish-guy
Fourthly - funnily enough, it seems that self-determination is a "good thing" for everybody except the Scots. Even the Americans whose former President, Woodrow Wilson (maternal grandparents both Scottish) so vociferously expounded the principle of S-D have given us their tuppence-worth with Obama having had his balls squeezed by Cameron and provided with suitable pro-Union rhetoric to mouth.
Self determination is a illusion you still end up with politicians running things there snouts in the troff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottish-guy
Finally - it seems rather curious that you seem to regard a minority ~35% of the vote as a sufficient democratic mandate for Tony Blair to sanction the murder of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, yet a majority 50.1% of the vote for independence would be sneered at.
I am very pleased to here that Scots will be able to decide in 5 years from now to stop being independent which is what basing an argument on the transistery nature of elections does.
I think you have a few prejudices you need to think through.
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Re: New bar opened in old Topman,the Scotland Discussion
Are you dyslexic, or just retarded?
No offence.
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Re: New bar opened in old Topman,the Scotland Discussion
Hold the front page! Scotty has discovered The Facts Of Life.
1. Capitalist enterprises act in their own self-interest and speak up when they believe those interests are threatened. They also engage in what economists call rent seeking
2. Parliamentary democracy means that when you elect a government you entrust it to act in what it sees as the national interest and you may not like the decisions they make
As we all know the Scottish Nationalists want independence from England to regain their (superior) moral purity. You would never find someone who favours independence for Scotland travelling to a Third World country to exploit poor young men for his own sexual gratification, for example - way too immoral.
Let me make a bold prediction. Scotty will be a very poor loser should the unlikely event of a Yes majority emerge on Friday. If the Yes vote does win, that chip on his shoulder will just grow and grow as Facts Of Life #1 & #2 are reinforced during the subsequent negotiations.
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Re: New bar opened in old Topman,the Scotland Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by kommentariat
...travelling to a Third World country to exploit poor young men for his own sexual gratification, for example - way too immoral.
Let me make a bold prediction. Scotty will be a very poor loser should the unlikely event of a Yes majority emerge on Friday. If the Yes vote does win, that chip on his shoulder will just grow and grow as Facts Of Life #1 & #2 are reinforced during the subsequent negotiations.
Well really, Kommie, in regard to your first accusation - do be careful in that glass house, won't you.
It is perfectly possible (in fact, such has been the deluge of Unionist propaganda from the print media and BBC it's probable) that NO will win next Thursday and I will be extremely disappointed - but we just simply wait for the next opportunity. It's important to understand two things: 1) the genie is out of the bottle, and 2) we shall never give up.
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Re: New bar opened in old Topman,the Scotland Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottish-guy
Quote:
Originally Posted by kommentariat
...travelling to a Third World country to exploit poor young men for his own sexual gratification, for example - way too immoral.
Well really, Kommie, in regard to your first accusation - do be careful in that glass house, won't you.
You think it bothers me? I don't pretend to the moral purity of the Limousine Left. I know what I am - a predatory homosexual, exactly the sort of person mothers warn their sons about. What's your excuse?
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottish-guy
It is perfectly possible (in fact, such has been the deluge of Unionist propaganda from the print media and BBC it's probable) that NO will win next Thursday and I will be extremely disappointed - but we just simply wait for the next opportunity.
I did tell you, months ago, what the betting markets said the outcome would be. It's no good bleating about these recent actions as if they were entirely unexpected.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottish-guy
It's important to understand two things: 1) the genie is out of the bottle, and 2) we shall never give up.
I'm sure the Shetlander Islanders felt the same way about the mainland Scots
Quote:
Originally Posted by History of the Shetland Islands
Shetland remained under Norwegian control for around 600 years. In 1469, King Christian I of Norway mortgaged Shetland to the Scottish crown to raise part of the dowry for the marriage of his daughter Margaret to King James III of Scotland. HeтАЩd done the same with Orkney less than a year earlier. James went on to annex Shetland to the Scottish crown in 1472. Attempts by Denmark to take Shetland back didnтАЩt succeed, nor did Denmark accept offers by Scotland, in the early 16th century, to return the islands in exchange for military support. The law, economy, architecture and religion of Shetland became Scottish. Language, too, changed; it became essentially Scots but with many borrowings from Old Norse. Scottish landowners moved in, too.
It sounds awfully familiar, doesn't it.