"who ever wants American style democracy"
it's the best money can buy !
Printable View
"who ever wants American style democracy"
it's the best money can buy !
This coup, so mild and bloodless, and polite seems to be generally regarded as a good thing. Not very exciting after all. It's a sort of Chicken Coup.
Oh, yes, yes. Everyone in Thailand supports the coup. After all, that's why they had to HAVE the coup in the first place, right? I mean, since everyone was so anti-Thaksin, they certainly wouldn't have voted him into power again in November, now would they?
No, now that you say so Arse they wouldn't have. Though I would say the same amount probably supports the King too.
Suan Dusit's poll shows 84% support coup
Approximately 84 per cent of Thais support Tuesday's military coup, according to the poll conducted by Suan Dusit Rajabhat University.
The poll showed that 82 per cent of Bangkok residents, and 86 per cent of residents in rural areas supported the coup as they believe it end political / social tension and is a positive step for Thai politics.
The poll contradicted the widespread belief that people in rural areas support Thaksin. About 16 per cent of Thais disagreed with the coup, citing adverse impact on Thailand's image in the international communities and weaken investors' confidence. About 75 per cent hopes Thai politics will improve following the coup, while about 20 per cent sees no change in political developments.
The Nation
So the coup was a complete waste of time. TRT would not have been reelected in November, and Thailand 's democratic process would have been preserved. Also, there would have been no need to send tanks into the city, censor international news, suppress opposition sentiments, and institute martial law.
Not to mention the fact the "shadenfreude" of Thaksin getting the boot by a democratic vote of his own people, rather than a military operation, would have been so much sweeter. Oh, well.
Sweeter for who exactly? You speak like this is the midwest USA! Only god is not yet involved.
I don't believe in God, so I won't be mentioning him.
Do you not think it would have been so goddam satisfying to see Thaksin lose an election by a landslide, as the latest poll figures suggest he would have? As it is, he can now go through life saying that he had the people's mandate, that he never lost an election, that he was the victim of an undemocratic power play.
Once again boygeenyus fails to understand the realities of Thailand. Thaksin was setting himself as a rival power to the King. He was attempting to play off various factions of the royal family against each other. It's been clear for many months through the actions of the King's surrogates (eg. Prem) that the King wanted Thaksin gone. That that was also the wish of large number of people in Bangkok (but not the countryside) was merely coincidental. The army, despite years of stating that the days of the army coup were behind them, got the nod from the palace and suddenly coups were back in favour. This action has nothing to do with preserving democracy and everything with preserving the status of the monarchy. A sub-text may well be that the Crown Prince is perceived as being in Thaksin's pocket and the king didn't want to risk consolidating that circumstance by his death
Cedric States...
Just the entire free world you dumb shit.Quote:
Exactly and who ever wants American style democracy,
Boygeenyus,
Everybody (except possibly you) knows how Thaksin warmed up to the impoverished people in Isaan. He purchased their votes with free cows...funded with government money. Do you get it. One cow - one vote. Another cow - another vote...duh!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodger
If it's the FREE world, why haven't they already got it, if they want it and they are free?
No, I think that you are talking about the impoverished, enchained, disenfranchised masses. Or would they rather have a good meal, or peace?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...0014335-01.jpg
Their Majesties the King and Queen grant an audience to leaders of the Council for Democratic Reform under Constitutional Monarchy, which is led by General Sonthi Boonyaratglin, and Privy Council President General Prem Tinsulanonda on Wednesday..//Royal Household
The Nation
While every other intelligent western nation, turns a blind eye to this weeks proceedings in Thailand, knowing full well the situation in Thailand and having informed and due respect for her people, America yet again blunders through with it's threats and unintelligent ramblings more akin to some obese loud mouthed child in a "candy" store than a fully educated adult.
And some of us would like to see the " US administration" go further than just purchasing power for themselves, what about buying a brain or three. The whole notion of America and it's "democracy crusade" is beginning to set into one almighty mush of unintelligent crap. Do they think with their pathetic little hand out, of 14-million US in aid, that they can threaten and make demands on the Royal kingdom of Thailand, as to what and when and how they wish to now set the time table for reform?Quote:
The Nation
US reviewing aid to Thailand
"NEW YORK - The United States is reviewing its aid to Thailand following the military coup which toppled the government of prime minister Thaksin Chinaware, a senior US official said Thursday.
Associated Press, meanwhile, quotes State Department Tom Casey as speaking from Washington DC that any move by Thailand's new military government to ban political activities would be a setback to democracy, he said Thursday. Such a policy, he said, "would go against some of the statements that the coup leaders themselves have made. "He said the administration would like to see elections held earlier than the one-year timetable set by the coup leaders."
Who do they think, they are making these demands too anyway? That piss in the drain 14-million US aid, alone, would not even cover one tenth the amount that Thaksin owes Thailand in Tax. Never mind the notion that America has, that they can blackmail a country into compliance with their sickly and fast plummeting green-back.
Are they really too stupid to see that having a pause in political activity in Thailand right now is vital for Thailand's future stability and it's immediate security? How is it possible that America who displays such unbelievable ignorance, still thinks that anyone is still listening to them. Almost the entire free world and certainly everyone else, that means the globe, would instantly back the impeachment of their own dear president, never mind listening to what shit that country has to say anymore!
I have only one thing to say to the Americans and that is, America FCUK off, Thailand doesn't need you!
I really like the ignore button on this site.
I'm sure everyone knows why he needs one.
Thailand Coup 21 trails and rising. This is the best one though.
...but there's an element of his post that I have to agree with. The US should just butt out.
He's a LOT more vitriolic about it than I am, but once again I'm ashamed of my government and its "our way is the only way" foreign policy. At least I can say I not only didnтАЩt vote for him but I campaigned against The Shrub.
IтАЩm all too often reminded of the old Tom Lehrer song from 1967, тАЬSend the MarinesтАЭ:
"When someone makes a move of which we donтАЩt approve
Who is it that always intervenes?
UN and OAS, they have their place, I guess, but first тАУ we send the marines!
For might makes right, until theyтАЩve seen the lightтАж
TheyтАЩve got to be protected, all their rights respected
тАШTil someone we LIKE can be elected!"
If The Shrub would stop with his stupid shell game and the US of A could just keep their fingers out of everyone elseтАЩs business maybe the Darwin Theory could proceed to its logical conclusion and the cockroaches could have the whole mess!
IтАЩm not taking sides on any of the worldтАЩs turmoil and certainly not saying I have the solution to any of it, but itтАЩs abundantly obvious that the US government doesnтАЩt either.
Thailand has regained their dignity, America has lost another poodle that would jump at anything his master says, which would be nothing more than the anti-terror agenda to deflect world attention from issues of developement to those of US multinational corporate freedom. America will get much of what it wants from Thailand in the end, but now they'll have to ASK for it.
Cedric, you need to get laid.
But I also agree with Bao-bao. There is a grain of truth to what you say. And I've even noticed it here on the board too a number of posts by some of our American friends on the coup just seem to lack a certain understanding street-smarts when it comes to appreciating the subtleties, the complexities, the fine shades of grey that is the un-American life of distant lands.
Thank-you Aunty, but I am still busy with the enema. I assume all these treats are meant as punishments, thats OK then.
Talking about the US aid, I recall the UN revealed that the US is the worst country that promises to send international aid to help people around the world but has hardly kept their promise. The US sent only 15 - 20 % of what they promised to send.
Don't let your personal resentments blind you from reality...the U.S. has sent more aid to more country's than any other government in modern history.
And no Cedric, Americans are not cowards as you stated in one of your earlier ramblings. From my experiences in life, it's always the guy with the biggest mouth who is the biggest coward.
Nobody likes Bush's "big mouth"...and Cedric, you seem to parallel his character pretty well. People who shoot their mouths off, without a care in the world for who they offend or insult in the process, are at the very root of the problems we're ALL facing today on a global basis.
mai pen rai
Amen. Death to democracy and free speech. Keep the bastards in their placeQuote:
Originally Posted by Dodger
That's right Homi...and I just exercised my own freedom.
I am american and proud to be one. BUT I agree we should butt out and not try to enforce our views on everyone else. Thailand was a warm friendly peace loving place when I first went in 94 and I fell in love with the people and the culture. Trying to bring western morals to the east has resulted in an unhappy people and way of life. I hope the people now have a chance to return to their buddist roots.
Interviewed for American TV whilst visiting the UN general assembly yesterday the President of Pakistan Pervez Musharraf told how the Bush administration warned Paskistan that the US would bomb Pakistan back into the Stone Age if they did not co-operate with the war on terror and supress domestic expression of support for terrorism against America.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodger
So from the 'Land of the Free' yet again a demonstarion of their ambition to be world rulers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodger
And America has the biggest mouth in the world right now so you therefore admit that Americans are cowards, QED !!
America should butt out and not try to impose it's distorted, corrupt version of Democracy on other countries - that is why it is in such an irretrievable mess in Iraq right now.
One day the USA and it's defenders and citizens resident on this board will realize that MIGHT is NOT always RIGHT, as the American Government and most Americans seem to believe.
Wake up Dodger and don't be blinded by the Black House's propaganda. According to the UN, the Scandinevian is the most generous nation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodger
So all those people who think you're an old faggot who will burn everlastingly in Hell are entitled to their opinion provided they don't express it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodger
DodgerтАЩs comment is, of course, correct. Also, I have consulted my atlas and cannot locate the country of Scandinevian. Perhaps you mean the country of Molvania.
http://www.molvania.com/molvania/index.html
Since America has been brought into the discussion (not surprising since neither America(ns) nor knee-jerk America bashers can keep their mouths shut), let's remember the rather fitful starts the US had in getting it's democratic act together.
Had George Washington been a power-grubber (he was actually considered for king-ship but turned it down, as well as serving almost reluctantly and temporarily before being replaced in, what was at the time, a limited democracy) our own history might have benefited from a temporary 'coup'. Thankfully, no such event was required, due primarily to the character of the man and the precedents of the office which he laid down.
I don't think Thaksin, despite his popularity, could be considered that kind of a leader, as many of his actions seemed designed to write into stone a continuation of his own power and a legitimization of his increasing wealth while in power.
The coup is a given, at this point. Some movements of the generals seem hopeful, others seem unsettling. Nobody with power should be trusted completely. Actions will speak louder than words in the coming months.
I hope to be around with so many of the rest of you as we decide Thailand's future here on this message board.
Hey Dave TF...where'd you come from dude.
Do you plan to be LOS anytime in Oct-Nov?
I depart tomorrow and will be bouncing around LOS for around 8 weeks. Let me know what you're up to.
P.S. Don't mind my comments on this thread...I'm just toying with a few of the Board wacko's to pass the time...LOL
Excellently written. I couldn't agree with you more. Although Thaksin was 'democratically elected', democracy in Thailand is still in its infancy. And more importantly the traditions and the institutions of democracy and the structures of governance are in their infancy as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_tf
From what I can tell, democratic traditions in Thailand, or the Thai constitution, does not appear to have the mechanisms or the checks and balances suitable for removing somebody like Thaksin from office. Let's face it, any leader of a Western democracy who had as much blood and money on his hands as this guy did would have been gone long ago. You imagine the uproar there would be if The US President, or the Prime Minister of Canada, or the President of France, used a loop-hole in the law to sell his business interests for over $1 billion dollars, and then avoided paying taxes on the sale. And this comes after all the extrajudicial Yabba killings, and the botched handling of the Muslim rebellion in the South which has already so thoroughly stained his reputation. There would be people in the streets! There were people in the streets of Bangkok! In the US for example, the Congress would be holding hearings or setting up a Special Investigator to carefully go over every minute detail of The President's affairs and business dealings. Impeachment and eventual removal of The President would be the goal upon discovery of any deliberate law breaking. This is the process in the US Constitution for removing a president from office. There's a history of its use. The traditions and structures of democracy are very strong in the US because The Founding Fathers made it so after many months of very careful deliberation, debate and thought that went into drafting the rules and structures of the US Government. Nevertheless is impeachment a power directly exercised by the American people through the ballot box, no of course it's not. It's a power exercised by the ruing elite. Democratic? Indeed.
Under the Westminster system, a Prime Minister as bad as Thaksin, well the public outcry would be such that his own Parliamentary colleagues would remove him from office for fear they themselves would loose their seats in the next general election - the coup would happen alright. Isn't that what we are seeing in slow motion in Britain as we speak? And isn't that what happened to Baroness Thacther? People had had enough so eventually she lost the numbers and out of No. 10 she went. Moreover if for some reason a bad Prime Minister is not removed from office then the Queen has the power to sack the entire Government. It's all about checks and balances. And for those who think the Queen has never exercised this power go and talk to the Australians and see how democratic they felt it was that some Pommy Shelia 10,000 miles away sacked the democratically elected Government of Australia. This is not a power exercised by the people through the ballot box either. It's exercised by the ruling elite. But Australia is still a democracy.
It seems to me that the events in Thailand we have witnessed this week are nothing more than a Thai version of the ruling elite deciding to get rid of a very dubious fellow as Prime Minister. Given Thaksin's bad record I think that move was very wise. My only concern is that the use of the military to achieve this end suggests to me that there are short comings in the Constitutional processes of Thai Governance. Wouldn't it be better for the Thai to adopt the Westminster system so that Cabinet Ministers, including the Prime Minister, are given Royal Warrants that allows them to exercise the power and duties of office. If they screw up, all the King has to do is withdraw their warrants. But then, who would he appoint in the interim as the caretaker Prime Minister? (it needs a strong honest opposition) Maybe he just trusts the military more than any dubious Thai civilian politician with a big smile on his face, and his hand out the back.
But let it be remembered that it is not the military that rules Thailand, it's the King.
Hey Dodger, I am going to be in Pattaya Oct 14 with a friend of mine. Where will you be? Maybe we can meet for a drink and a laugh :)
When was this, exactly? Or are you, in your ignorance of pretty much everything, referring to "Nov 11, 1975 Canberra: Governor General Sir John Kerr sacks Prime Minister Gough Whitlam and dissolves Parliament" when Brenda simply wasn't consulted and by all accounts was fairly pissed off?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aunty
November 11, 1975.
Was the 'pommy sheila' involved? Problematic.
Certaily, her 'representative' acted.
Nice to see all three of our favourite Americana's on this thread forming a huddle, I feel all warm and gooey inside. Have a good trip boys, keep safe now yer hear. Perhaps you can form a delegation and do some damage control, have a good one!
Just in case you decide to do a side trip, to Vietnam, get really big back-packs. Enough for 8-million tons of Bombs, thats 300-tons for every man woman and child, leave enough space for the 72 000 000 million litres of Chemical weapons now you hear, we dont want you falling short, not on your holiday of a lifetime.
Napalm ,pineapple-bombs, agent orange enough for about 1.034.300 hectares, agent blue ,oh just so much to remember besides the hair gel. Caution napalm is a bit sticky in the tropics and agent blue is permanent. And if you get bored on those toxic beaches reach out for a nice holiday read. A "higher form of killing" by Jeremy Paxman and Robert Harris.
Oh and dont forget to pay your 4000 000 us departure tax when you launch your selves from Thaisoil into your adventures in Vietnam, if you don't, how on earth will you manage to start placing demands on the Junta when you return.
Enjoy.http://upload4.postimage.org/1214761/VNchemical2JPG.jpg
Well the only ignorant person around here Corporal Plonker is you as you endlessly demonstrate in your trolling posts. You do realise donтАЩt you how little credibility you have around here, and what little regard in which you are held? I assume you have some gift of personal insight? Probably not.Quote:
Originally Posted by homintern
While it is true that the Governor-General actually dismissed the Whitlam Labour Govt, (and made the decision to do so) he did so using the prerogative powers of the Crown, which as Governor-General he holds on behalf of the Queen. But at the end of the day it all came down to who got Lizzy on the phone first. And in that respect Kerr, through typical political duplicity, won. Something The Palace, IтАЩm sure to anyone with half a brain, doesnтАЩt want widely known.
But anyway, this is a thread about Thailand, not Australia. Kindly donтАЩt take it off topic you ignorant sack of shit (It appears I need to use this sort of crude boorish language with you in order to penetrate your fog of hate and personality disorder).
Bucknaway...
I'll shoot you an e:mail with my mobile number before your departure date. Just give me a ring...I'll have a friend with me as well...just don't know his name at the moment...LOL
mai pen rai
Cedric dribbels...
If we had you in the middle of our huddle you would definately feel all warm and gooey inside.Quote:
Nice to see all three of our favourite Americana's on this thread forming a huddle, I feel all warm and gooey inside
Please ex - colonials and dregs of the Empire. Is not the Coupe d'Etat in Thailand important enough to stick to the topic and not get dragged into your home country affairs and war crimes.
Democracy has many forms and operates at differing degrees of inefficiency. Constitutional Monarchs mostly only act on the advice of their Prime Ministers except in dire emergency when they or The Governor or The President have to act in the best interests of the people in the most constitutional way possible.
For P.M. Taksin to quit or take a very back seat and H.M. invited him to so do but he did not and the country remained divided until a benevolent Coup was the only way out. Now is the time for healing and preparing to move on into a happy future.