Mike? do you mean Mick? who wouldn't have had the authority to agree to contracts anyhow, that was all down to Tim, the American Manager, is that the same one from Panorama/Funny Boys?Quote:
Originally Posted by scottish-guy
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Mike? do you mean Mick? who wouldn't have had the authority to agree to contracts anyhow, that was all down to Tim, the American Manager, is that the same one from Panorama/Funny Boys?Quote:
Originally Posted by scottish-guy
Looks like it is a quiet night in the toilets tonight. get up from your knees dear, time to go home.Quote:
Originally Posted by devilsadvocate
Gents,
I find the posts criticising David unfair in the extreme.
I would like to take this opportunity to set the record straight on a few issues here. Le Cafe Royale was going down the pan around 2001 when I got involved with them. The additional rooms,which were new and brought in by me in a' loose partnership ' this business was for mutual benefit of all of us.
I used their reception for bookings and we shared costs for maids and handymen and they got the benefit of new rooms, increased coffee shop and Bar trade, as well as the appearance of a new wing or new ' string to the bow'
I told Old Ian (Read) time and time again about refurbishing the rooms. I will not go into the ins and outs,safe to say they were not done right up to Ians death. Robbie was ill at the time and had limited interest. To make matters worse, I developed throat cancer and Ian McKnight also passed away.
I sold out after my operation for Cancer in 2006, Ian Read died whilst I was having my operation.
Robbie died in 2008 after I had been sent to prison,(another disgrace). Whilst I was in prison,Mick went down and then later died of a Brain aneurysm. Also, My Thai Manager, Yoe, of Throb and Splash died of Cancer at a very young age.
I think we can safely say a lot happened during this period of time. However, Le Cafe had needed an uplift/refurb call it what you want for a long time. Tom,the American day manager had a great deal to cope with throughout all this.
David was brought in as a night manager to a place already beset by grief and catastrophe. David had to basically attempt raising a ' Phoenix from the ashes ' of the Cafe.
During this time,because of difficulties between my old place,(now Copa) and Le Cafe,they split from the ' mutually beneficial trading arrangement' for whatever reasons.
So all in all, David has not had it easy and has tried his best to get the place on track with using the best of his ideas and knowledge to achieve this.
I believe there were constraints on budgets which I won't go into,but he has done his best.
On top of all this, a global recession hit and an economic downturn around the World,as you all know. This was followed by the Red shirts/yellow shirts,airport closures, change of clientele to mainly Russians and a revolution in the way the Thai boys operate with the advent of Gay Romeo and the like.
How anybody can blame poor bloody David in all of this is beyond belief. He has had to start from scratch with a premises that has suffered unbelievable ill fortune, he has also continued with his Thais for Life efforts, Ban jing jai, various other fundraising for Heartt 2000 and still kept a smile on his face.
Yes, I do believe the rooms need a makeover,which is not Davids department or wasn't.
He needs time and a bit of support which I believe he is getting from various quarters. He is not a remote guy,he is a people person who would certainly listen to proposals from customers that he believed would improve trade and benefit the people who frequent the Cafe Royale.
I have said in other posts that times are changing, new ideas need to come but if anyone deserves a break,it is David and Le Cafe Royale. A bit like a football team really, you have to try new ideas, players and moves to see what is a winning formula.
I wish him the very best of luck for the future and Tom as well...... :notworthy: :notworthy:
Quote:
Originally Posted by aot87
To compare the open bar with bars is Boyztown does not take in overheads and shows little idea of running a business. The rent on the open bar in the boondocks would be 5% of what a business in Boyztown pays before adding tea money, minimum wage for all staff , aircon, insurance and so on. Have you any idea of the volume of drinks that has to be sold to even break even.Quote:
Originally Posted by colmx
Colmx you could drop the prices like Happyplace has done but it is not crowded every night as you suggest it would be. In the main it is the expat that shops around for the cheap drinks not the 14 day annual leave tourist. I think that bar owners that rely on expats chasing bottom prices for drinks, need to have deep pockets and be running the bar as a hobby.l
The thread seems to divide into those who feel cheap drinks will be the saviour of BT and those who feel that more imagination is needed to attract the tourist dollar.
I would be interested to hear from Kevin Quill as to how they arranged all the tour groups that packed his old Throb Club every night.
Hi,Quote:
Originally Posted by lonelywombat
We used to get most of the trade,believe it or not, by advertising all over Pattaya in both gay and straight bars.
I actually knew a great many of the girls working in the go go bars, a lot of the straight guys who visited Pattaya, and we also did business with Hard Rock Cafe and others so we had a hard core of diverse trade and customers.
We also, Mark and I, used a lot of ' shoe leather' in promoting the bars and constantly letting the likes of Pattaya People,( Neils Colov), and Pattaya Today, (Barry Kenyon) know what we were doing and asking them to get us in the papers with our ideas.
We also did a great deal of entertainment appealing to Thais, hence the famous Thai singers etc that played or appeared at the bar.
I would personally take staff and go and physically put posters up in the bars in Bangkok, as well as far and wide in different locales around Pattaya.
We used every tool at our disposal including this forum and were very proactive in promotion, which we did successfully.
The tour groups came from word of mouth and looking after them well when they came to the bar.... :sunny:
We DID NOT bow to the greed of the touts and told them, if they were charging the customer a set price, then THEY, the tour guide was completely responsible for taking the orders and paying the bill.
I made it clear if the customer ordered from one of our waiters they would pay the normal bar price, not the inflated tour guide price for Chinese tour groups!
It wasn't overnight and took time but word spread and got around. Lonelywombat,without any self promoting, I don't think ANY other bar gay or straight,put as much sheer effort, sweat and tears into getting the name known far and wide as what we did. We were relentless,but when you enjoy what you are doing it isn't hard.
Also, I loved and enjoyed the work, I loved the fun and the bar and the customers, so did Mark and the showboys and it oozed out from us for all to see. I'll never forget those times. We made good money too.
Probably the best fun in my life only to be curtailed by ill health and the unashamed GREED and corrupt practices of others... :crybaby:
C'est La Vie,
I have only quoted part of the preceding post. I agree with all Kevin says.Quote:
Originally Posted by kquill
Two things I learnt in business-
you cant do business sitting or your arse [waiting]
you create your own luck.
Obviously Kevin thats exactly what you did and the reasons others are not as successful. You went out and made it happen, too many are waiting for it to happen.
Here in OZ we refer to the cargo cult mentality. After WW2 the natives of PNG after seeing all the goods bought in by air by the Allies , made it almost a religion to worship the the airplane as a source of riches, even to making imitation landing strips. In many ways I think a lot of bars have the same mentality.
When I first entered the bars in Thailand, I was disappointed to find that they were not more in keeping with a Thai theme. They were playing the same music they play here in the USA and the shows were the same that I would see in Philly, DC or NYC. I was expecting to see guys dressed in traditional clothing as shown in the travel magazines. I wanted to hear popular Thai music being played. I was only there for a short time and I wanted to see the Thailand as shown on the postcards.
I still remember the first date I had with a Thai guy. He was so happy to take me to a restaurant that served American type food. Sigh..... After flying for 24 hours in a plane, the last thing I wanted to do was search out American culture in Thailand. I came to Thailand to immerse myself in as much Thai culture as possible and it only made me sad to find that the illusion I was looking for stopped at the bar/disco door.
If I were going to take a chance on opening a bar in Thailand, I would try to do something unheard of. I would try to open a place that would make the vacationer realize that they are in Thailand and on Holiday.
On slow night, I would have the staff take a few minutes to chat with the customers by sitting with them and having a short conversation. No drink, no tip, just friendly conversation until it is time for them to get up and dance or something.
On a side note, when I was at Krazy Dragon last time, I was wondering if there was a easier way to tip the guys? It seem to be a problem getting 20 baht notes all the time from the banks. If I had a bar similar to Krazy Dragon, I would make it easier to tip the guys. I would sell cheap bracelets or coins that would hold a 20 baht value. Something like a elastic-string bracelet that could be slipped on a guys... Um.. Hand? Foot? Pinky finger? They could turn them into the bar and exchange them for the cash paid for them. If the bar opens at 7pm, I would run a promotion that says if you buy 25 tip bracelets (500 baht Value) Get 5 free (100 Baht Value) and there would be no refunds on tip bracelets and they can't be used for purchases.
If you don't spend all your tip bracelets on that night than you can come back the next night and give them out or give them as a gift to a friend that goes to the bar. I think the only thing that would ruin it would be if the bar was found to take a cut of the tips from the guys.
Well.... That's all I got right now.
You have to realise that boyztown in its heyday (10-20 years ago) use to still attract 50-70 year olds, so those same guys are now 60-90 years old and probably stopped coming, or if they live here maybe have boyfriends and do not go out much to Boyztown.
So the recipe that was working then: dragshows, Toi singing and food carts are 10-20 years behind the time. Boyz town needs to re-invent itself. Funny boys is smart and always full of boys, Copa's renovations are good but the show is sad and lacks sexy energy. The new cafe where the awful Amor used to be has got the right idea, but the problem is all the others have not changed decor, chairs (try the ones at Panorama or the garden chairs at Cafe Royale), shows or anything at all - Panorama, the one bar next to it, BBB, Toy boys, ambiance cafe, never mind the rip off massage place opposite Toy boys - they really are awful. Cafe Royale insitence of keeping Toi and just changing the decor has not worked. David is a very nice guy, but I think is too much of an old drag to see modern and youthful change.
I can imagine the owners of these establishments have never bothered to visit gay bars in other countries or even websites - some places are universe ahead! Don't need to go far, Ho Chi Minh has some nice bars/discos, so has Phnom Penh, Siem Reap, Singapore, Bali, Sydney etc.
Furthermore, as mentioned by previous posters, prices prices prices - everyone is cutting down on expenses, so what could be a nightly outing in Boyztown is now once a week for tourists never mind expats.
It's either things will carry on as they are (downwards), or things change for the more modern, hip-er and cheaper (upwards). I fear the people running Boyztown are too old and too set in their ways, and of course know it all!!!
I've never had a problem asking the cashier at the bar to change a couple of hundred notes into twenties. Of course, you might think that he'd run out quite quickly - but he seems to keep a good stock in anticipation of such requests and, I imagine, as soon as a boy has accumulated five twenties he probably goes back to the bar and exhanges them for a hundred note - so the twenties are quickly available again for customers who've arrived with no small change.Quote:
Originally Posted by bucknaway
To me it appeared my last 2 visits that CR was the basket case of soi 3 . After reading scottish--guy above , I thought I would check out their web page.Quote:
Originally Posted by scottish-guy
First it appears that El Duo have split and the smaller one is doing solo 3 nights per week. The next function is the Royal wedding, and I shudder at the thought of it. A quicK look down the planned monthly functions for the year underlines the problem. CR is catering for expats, special night once every 4 weeks.
http://www.caferoyale-pattaya.com/index.php?p=whaton
Scottish said maybe Davids hands are tied. Does he mean there is no interest or no money available to improve CR as a daily tourist destination?
Sure happyplace has its once a month boybingo, it appears that CR has its once a month whatever, but that does not make it a tourist attraction, nor does it keep the cash register turning over, every night at the same level. By contrast other venues are nightly.
Kevin Quill has 2 posts just above this where he outlined the hands on effort it took to build up Throb and the ongoing committment. Do the new owners of CR not have the will, the money or the expertise?
I am not suggesting competing with the Copa,Venue BBB or WWB. What I would do is to look at a male dance troop . I believe WWR pays dancers 7000-9000 baht per month and they make their own costumes. They had a totally different type of dancing to other venues as they were not back up for a ladyboi miming, but dancers usually barefoot but trained.
At the moment CR offers DK a singer I am assuming is one of El Duo 3 nights a week. Khun Mae [boy or girl?] sings 4 alternate nights to DK. Toi sings mon - sat at 11.30.
A dance troop integrated with the solo singer can provide life and competition to other places
in soi 3. But do they have the will and the money.
Last year when I went to see El Duo, both times waiters were not allowed to do waiter service during the show. I had to go to the bar myself. That was pre David and I hope things have improved. Personally I thought the wait staff looked bored and lacked training. I wondered if a free lancers arrangement like La Cage where David first started off, might be worth a try.
The question is do the new owners of CR want to improve, do they have the money to do so or is it just a hobby and they could not care less.