Re: What's the score on masks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bkkguy
.
...... will you keep saying that carbon monoxide contains particulates and the masks filter out some of this carbon monoxide?
Based on what I've been reading on the subject the past few days, I actually I think it's best to say it this way..."Breathing carbon monoxide can kill you, and the N95 (or carbon masks) can help reduce the CO you're getting in your lungs". How does that sound?
Now remember, I'm not a chemist by any stretch, but I do know when my mask is turning black there's a reason behind it. Do I really care what that reason is? Not particularly (no pun intended). What is my primary concern? Stopping a deadly contaminant from entering my lungs.
Read the link below if you wish to learn more about this topic yourself. .
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7780759/
Re: What's the score on masks?
I thought Dodger's CO claim was BS but it contains some truth.
Old style gas masks use activated carbon. Soot in exhaust gas would similarly absorb CO that can be released in the lungs.
This is why the quoted article talks about "EXPIRED" CO.
Sorry for doubting you Dodger :-(
Re: What's the score on masks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NitNoi
I thought Dodger's CO claim was BS but it contains some truth.
Old style gas masks use activated carbon. Soot in exhaust gas would similarly absorb CO that can be released in the lungs.
This is why the quoted article talks about "EXPIRED" CO.
Sorry for doubting you Dodger :-(
Couldn't have said it better myself...LOL
Re: What's the score on masks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dodger
Based on what I've been reading on the subject the past few days, I actually I think it's best to say it this way..."Breathing carbon monoxide can kill you, and the N95 (or carbon masks) can help reduce the CO you're getting in your lungs". How does that sound?
Still inaccurate. There is no "active carbon" in an N95 mask.
The N95(~FFP2) masks are usually made out of polypropylene and are designed to filter particles. The N95 masks do not filter out CO, CO2,O2 or N2.
I'm no expert on this, but even if the mask had activated carbon (which it does not), I'd be very surprised if it removed CO.
Explain that one CO + C = ????
To remove CO, you probably want a platinum catalyst at a few hundred degrees, to oxidize the CO into CO2.
Much better to ignore the CO and wear your N95/FFP2 or better still, N99/FFP3 mask for covid and PM2.5.
Re: What's the score on masks?
(Correction: N2 should read N3)
Re: What's the score on masks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
goji
Still inaccurate. There is no "active carbon" in an N95 mask.
Who said there was?
According to what the experts are saying, both the N95 masks and carbon masks can help reduce the CO you're getting in your lungs. No one is saying that N95 masks contain active carbon. I think you may have misinterpreted what I was saying.
The important point as far as I'm concerned is the fact that N95 masks can in fact help reduce the CO you're getting in your lungs. That's what matters to me.
Re: What's the score on masks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dodger
According to what the experts are saying, both the N95 masks and carbon masks can help reduce the CO you're getting in your lungs.
The experts do not say that. If you have evidence of that, please post links.
Re: What's the score on masks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
goji
The experts do not say that. If you have evidence of that, please post links.
The link was already provided in post # 41. Did you bother reading it?
From the words of the experts:
"Conclusion"
"All three type of masks such as surgical mask, N95 mask, and carbon mask were effective to reduce CO levels from air pollution with the most significant was N95 and carbon mask. Fabric mask has the poorest protection from CO levels".
If you have an issue with what the experts are saying then take it up with them,.
Re: What's the score on masks?
That report is measuring EXPIRED CO.
We are discussing INHALED CO, which is not the same thing.
The also don't give enough detail to establish if the experiment method is robust or offer any theoretical explanation for the expired CO change measured.
Re: What's the score on masks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dodger
Now remember, I'm not a chemist by any stretch,...
But I am a chemist.
The article you quoted is dubious. "Expired CO", do they mean exhaled? I would rather take the article as proof that you can find proof for or against anything on the internet (flat earth, holocaust, aliens, moon landing, you name it).
Activated charcoal works by absorption which is mostly a physical process and works well for some pollutants, but not for CO.
To remove CO at room temperature, there are very specialized filters with complicated metal oxides that oxidize CO to CO2.
Nitrogen in air is N2, oxygen in air is O2, ozone is O3.
Re: What's the score on masks?
gogi and christian:
Thank you both for sharing your technical expertise on the subject.
Personally, from everything that I've experienced and learned along the way, wearing the N95 face mask in adverse and/or threatening environments pays dividends. As mentioned before, I plan to continue wearing this mask well after this pandemic is over when I feel it's necessary.
If you guys don't agree with the test results regarding the N95's ability to lower CO levels, than that's your prerogative. Maybe you guys are right and the test results are wrong...what the hell do I know.
Seeing as you both appear to be in question about what "Expired CO" is, I have to assume that the experts who use this term frequently in their technical journals and published test results are using this term incorrectly.
In any event, none of this matters to me either. The only thing that concerns me is the masks ability to block at least some of the contaminants in the air to help protect my lungs and prevent the spread of this virus.
In your expert opinions: Does the N95 mask help, or not?
Re: What's the score on masks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dodger
In your expert opinions: Does the N95 mask help, or not?
In my opinion, masks are of immense help.
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Re: What's the score on masks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dodger
gogi and christian:
Thank you both for sharing your technical expertise
If you guys don't agree with the test results regarding the N95's ability to lower CO levels, than that's your prerogative. Maybe you guys are right and the test results are wrong...what the hell do I know.
Obviously great minds think alike. :D
Re: What's the score on masks?
When the bars do finally reopen you should consider putting your mask on before getting drunk.
Check out what could happen if you don't:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvCe9az11Gc
Re: What's the score on masks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dodger
In your expert opinions: Does the N95 mask help, or not?
I'm not claiming to be an expert.
By definition, an N95 mask removes 95% of the particulates above 0.3microns, so it definitely helps with particulate pollution.
A coronavirus is apparently between 50 and 140 nM in size, so in theory, it can get through the masks. In practice, I gather they tend to be in the air on very fine droplets of water and can be effectively filtered out to an extent.
If we upgrade to N99/FFP3 masks, it should be even better. Cambridge University Hospitals did a trial and found them to be almost 100% effective. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57636360
[Search further and the paper can be found]
For my forthcoming trip to Thailand:
1 We get a covid test on arrival and are sent to hospital if failing. That is what I consider to be a bad outcome, when my probability of actually needing treatment is low. Therefore I will wear 3M FFP3 masks when traveling to Thailand & if going anywhere risky in the preceding days.
2 I'll probably mostly wear at least FFP2 masks after that.
3 I might wear the useless surgical masks in any outdoor situations, if pollution levels are low, just to satisfy legal reauirements.
I dislike waste and understand that sensible re-use of masks is just fine for people not working in covid wards. The virus doesn't survive in any quantity for long on the material. Particularly if left in direct sunlight.
As a reminder for anyone thinking of travelling, some airlines tend to specify valveless masks.
Re: What's the score on masks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
goji
For my forthcoming trip to Thailand:
1 We get a covid test on arrival and are sent to hospital if failing. That is what I consider to be a bad outcome, when my probability of actually needing treatment is low.
Thanks for the information you provided.
Failing the test on arrival would honestly be my greatest fear - all things considered. I imagine those who are fully vaccinated and fail the test would be placed in quarantine...but where?...and how long? What a nightmare scenario.
I, like you, would wear the best mask I could get my hands on during the trip over. I would also carry one of those spray disinfectants to use in the airports and on the planes themselves as an added safeguard. I'm not a paranoid person by nature, but I would take every possible precaution just to be on the safe side.
Re: What's the score on masks?
My level of pessimism increases with my age and so I have painfully replicated Dodger's nightmare. Frequently. Others too; but I'll save those for another occasion.
Re: What's the score on masks?
Also don't forget to remove your mask before eating:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HpJAG6ZKEc
Re: What's the score on masks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
daydreamer
LOL...Too Funny!!!