I have no proof, that is why it's a belief and not a scientific fact. As for our old chum Argosy, well.......most curious.
Printable View
I have no proof, that is why it's a belief and not a scientific fact. As for our old chum Argosy, well.......most curious.
Everybody knows who "Argosy" was, but it really doesn't matter what the forum software flags up when the Great Controller who makes the decisions just suits himself anyway (and makes no bones about it).
If "Argosy" was banned as a hydra, then the perpetrator's original ID ought to be extinguished too - that's what the "rules" say, but just like the software, the rules are subject to the whim of the Great Controller
“There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.”
Mr Donald Rumsfeld.
Most apposite in this instance.
In the smartphone age, the bar culture is changing, and the gay scene seems to be in the vanguard of that change.
It doesn't mean the end of bars, but the business model needs to adapt.
Bars now need to focus on being primarily physical meeting places for people who have already met online, and to get boys to volunteer a bar as an RV point, a bar will have to run a commission system for the boys, so they get a percentage of the customer's bin.
The seating in the bars needs to be more convivial for a meet and chat, rather than a viewing platform for a stage show. They will also need ST rooms or easy access to them. The bars will need to write off most of the revenue they currently get from bar fines, so drinks prices will rise. Whether the boys will continue to get a kickback on each drink that's bought for them is debatable - a percentage kickback on the whole tab will be easier to administer.
I disagree with you Old Git. I personally don't think most of the bars need to change or even that they can. I think the main change needs to come from the landlords who at some point will have to accept that the rent they want is completely out of kilter with what a business operating in that premesis can afford.
Halve the rents in Sunee and Boyztown and see the places re-open very quickly.
Old Git - I suspect the main reasons that the Apps are winning over the bars is that a) many boys would rather sit at home and get hook-ups via an App than parade about in their knickers on a stage, and b) many "punters" don't want to pay the fees and drinks prices in the bars.
So I really don't see how your "model" of bars being a rendezvous point for hook-ups pre-arranged via Apps can work, as many of the boys on the Apps still won't want to be in the bars even with their clothes on. The punter's side of the equation would see (as you concede) bar drinks prices rising which would make the App-using cheap Charlie punters (or those who just don't like bars) even less likely to meet there.
I don't know which conclusion" you're referring to.
I've drawn 4 conclusions:
1. The identity of "Argosy"
2. That "Argosy" was banned as a hydra
3. That (if that's the case) the originator's "main" ID ought to have been banned too (as the Rules dictate)
4. That you and only you decide who to ban
Which of those "conclusions" are wrong and why do you recommend I check or consult with +1500 people before expressing an opinion.
I don't recall you ever holding a ballot before giving us the 'benefit' of your opinions, nor should you have to.
Now, if you're saying that the "Argosy" ID was not owned by the person "90%" of people think it was, and if you are also saying that the "real" offender (rather than the one which "90%" assume it was) has been dealt with and both his hydra and his original ID banned - then why don't you just tell us who it was? Why the secrecy? It is a power thing?
Incidentally, the software may well indicate +1500 members but we all know there are no more than 20 active (i.e. regularly contributing) in the fourm - and that's probably being generous
I liked Argosy. I miss him.
" So I really don't see how your "model" of bars being a rendezvous point for hook-ups pre-arranged via Apps can work "
If the boys are getting perhaps 20% of the clients bar bin as a kickback, they won't want to meet on a park bench or restaurant - and they will want him to spend heavily in the bar..
Yes I get that - but given that one of the main reasons punters are boycotting the bars is the drink prices, how will the increased prices (which you say will happen) tempt them back?
I just think the whole boy bar scene is on its last legs - which is a great pity - and it's beyond saving
You asked interesting question about drink prices, would customers return to bars, if bars decided to lower their drink prices. My guess is no. Even if a 600 baht drink would cost 300 tomorrow, I would not go back, it isn't about cost, it's that apps offer many times the number of guys, why would I go to gogo bar?
It is different for Asians, Chinese girls LOVE to giggle as they look at guys in underwear. Chinese don't mind paying 650 baht for such entertainment, and you probably agree that for them it is great fun for very little money. Westerners go to gogos for different reason, and if current trend continues there will soon be almost no Western gay customers in gogo bars.
Some bars will survive, thanks to Asian customers. For a successful bar the location is what kills, or helps them survive. Boyztown will remain fairly busy, it is next to busy tourist areas, Sunee will be history, Chinese have simply never heard of Sunee.
I think 2 things changed hook up scene here, and it happened 3-4 years ago, dating apps started to become popular in Asia, and especially Thailand, guys could afford to buy smart phones, and they quickly learned about Grindr, Hornet. GayRomeo was on the scene before these apps, and started to chip away business from gogo and host bars. Why would a guy spend a night on stage in his underwear, if he can stay home, watch soaps, or go outside and hang with friends, and make few thousand when he feels like? Many do both, day time apps, 8pm work in a bar.
At the same time, 4-5 years ago Chinese started mass travel, small groups at first, before the Chinese invasion you'd only see Japanese, HK, Korean customers at soi Twilight. Prices started to increase, but drinks in most Bangkok gogo bars were still in 300 baht range. Remember, only 3-5 years ago. That was the time bar owners noticed that for many, probably most Asian customers price of a drink made no diffrence, and they started to increase drink prices, and then off fees. Bar owner is not interested in a 600 baht off fee, and lose most handsome guy in his bar, he rather have this guy on a stage.
As Chinese middle class started to grow quickly, Chinese groups started to dominate Pattaya and Bangkok. Massive change in tourist demo in only 5 years.
While Westerners visit gogos to off guys, Chinese go for shows, or just look at handsome gogo guys. Chinese buy drinks, but they do not off. Chinese do not leave 600-800 baht off fees to bar, so bars get their money from 600 baht drinks.
As the drink prices sky rocketed, around same time Westerners started using apps, Thai and other guys were also happy to use apps, everybody satisfied. For sex, there is no longer any need for gogo bars, doesn't matter what the drinks cost. For some reason older gay generation still visit gogo, but you won't see people under 40, instead Hornet is packed with handsome Russians, granted, only during hi season. They have no need for gogo bars, but they do visit Boyztown, as a night out.
Gogo bars in good, busy tourist location will stay and make money, but they are now becoming show bars, not a place to off a guy, but to see a show, look at handsome, fit guys on stage.
Some Westerners will always prefer gogo, it is good to see merchandise before deciding to buy, apps can be tricky. To those Westerners drink prices are important factor.
For me it's Chinese, and I now hardly ever hook up with Thais. Chinese on apps are hungry for sex, many have never been with white guy, sex with Chinese guy is real sex.
Thai guys often are not eager, while very polite and patient, they are waiting for the whole thing to end, get paid, and fuck off. They are working, and sometimes they do their job very well. Chinese guys want to have sex, the guy comes, but instead of getting dressed and leave, he keeps laying on bed, waiting to be ready for round 2. I tell you, Chinese are a manna from heaven for bottom like me. They are naturally rude and pushy, all great traits for an aggressive top!
For guy like me there is no use for gogo bars, zero! I suspect there are many others.
" I just think the whole boy bar scene is on its last legs - which is a great pity - and it's beyond saving "
There is a mentality problem when it comes to letting property in Thailand. When landlords see a tenant doing well, they want a bigger slice of the action, but when they are doing worse, reducing rents seems to involve loss of face and they will often leave property empty instead of dropping the rent.
Outside of BKK (which IS beyond salvation for nightlife I suspect) there is a dramatic drop in rents when you go just a couple of sois away from a nightlife area, and the owners of the property in those sois are only too aware of that, and are keen to get a share of the action.
The answer is for new bars to migrate a little, if the local burghers will allow it..
Really good analysis DD. I agree with your thinking regarding the beginnings of the internet apps sensation coinciding very closely with the slow devastation of places like Sunee (arguably the most obvious example), Twilight/Surawong (nearly as dramatic), Boyztown, Chiang Mai market area, and Patong. One cannot fail to see it happening over time.
One exception seems to be Jomtien Plaza where things are hopping instead of stagnating. Why I don't know, but their particular business model seems to be quite successful in cheating the heading wind.
A question: regarding Chinese guys using the internet. Are you talking about using the apps from Thailand and still attracting Chinese, or do you live in China?
I believe Jomtian Complex is where things are hopping, whereas Jomtian Plaza is the place across the Thappraya road from Tinnies pie shop. Jomtian complex is very accessible and surrounded by niche hotels within a 200M radius, when compared to Sunee.
Oops ... "Complex" not "Plaza". Quite right.
I'm a naughty boy.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BKaQLYPf5hMhttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BKaQLYPf5hM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BKaQLYPf5hM
The Cambodian guys working in Jomtien Complex certainly know their target audience.
Nom, who worked in one of the bars off and on for over a year told me that when the guys first start working there, they are usually manly, straight types.
Once they see what the punters are after they suddenly turn up to work wearing bit of make-up and acting fem.
Nope, never even been to China.
Apps in Pattaya and Bangkok. Last peak season, Dec and Jan 20-30 messages every day.
I say on app profiles I like really Chinese, and aggressive tops especially. And they send messages, during very high season it's almost impossible to reply to all, and no point, really, since I couldn't meet most anyways. So I get to be picky
In Pattaya they usually stay at hotels very central, they message pic of hotel card. Often they stay in condos, air BnB, by now I'm super familiar with The Base, Centric Sea etc lol. It's funny, very often they are in town for 3 days only, often there is someone else from their group sleeping in same room, but they always ask if it's ok, friend sleeping lol
No, that was ElephantSpike and some extra tools we had hooked up to the old phpBB software. You recall we hacked into the old BitcthBoard around then after they started publishing personal information.
Then it was the extra add on's that I first employed here to protect this Board from the BitchBoard kids, that also brought to light some other nonsense...that was dealt with at the time.
I believe I addressed most other irregularities at the time....including yours.
Surfcrest
doubledutch....really...chinese....tops....really. ..what do they do...tap u on the shoulder to let u know when they r in???
Oh shut up, latintopxxx, I don't get fucked every time, unlike you, pony-boy!
Most times its blow job, lots of times mild SM, I would get into some detail, but you wouldn't be able to understand, would you? I bet you are not even top, latin, I bet you are one of those nasty "power bottoms", absolutely worst type of sex partner, while your job as bottom is to be obedient and do you what you're told, these power bottoms act as if they are the boss! WTF is up with that? It's simply wrong!
Besides, getting fucked by small or average size dick is very nice, not painful, you get the pleasure, but not the discomfort of big dick. Chinese really are aggressive, and it seems that they are not even trying, or part of role play, that's just how they always are. But as a fellow bottom you know all about it, latintopxx
see we have two peas in a pod here...so similar they are...LOL...
Some posts in this thread have been moved to the Holding Room.
A447
Moderator
a447 in trouble....nooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! cannot believe
I do both, gogo bars and online dating. Depending on location.
I Bangkok prices in gogo bars are prohibitively expensive for me, so I do all my business (figuratively; some boys I pay, others come for free) online.
In the provinces anyway, no gay venues, but online I have been lucky recently. Even in cases where I already had a date (Nakon Sawan, Chumpon), I could have had someone from online.
In Pattaya, I enjoy watching boys in underwear on stage. Prices are reasonable, so I visit up to 4 bars in one night, and if I see someone I like, I take him home. And if I don't find someone in the bars, but don't want to go home alone, I have a pool of previous who are worth a repeat and just a phone call away.