Re: Reviving Boyztown. What does it take
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger
Quote:
Originally Posted by aot87
Taking the cafe , which is what most guys are talking about, the trouble is that Craig the owner lives in the uk , is st8 and only visits abouts 2 times a year. When Ian was alive and was in the bar every nite, things were not the same , the thai guys who now visit dave , or nab used to come in after midnite and the place buzzed .
In those days there was no Dave or NAB, or for that matter XRay or Dude or any of the other gay discos that have come and gone. Granted there was Hollywood but that was very mixed and not liked by many guys.
Get real. Thai boys went to Cafe Royale after hours because there were few places else for them to go, and they could often find someone there to buy them a drink or take them home.
Times have changed and there are less boys around who make their living from selling themselves down in Boyztown. Now they have jobs in Big C or some other shopping center or in any of the several new hotels that have sprung up since the days you talk about. After they finish work they now go onto Gay Romeo or go to a karaoke with their Thai friends.
The advantages of Gay Romeo are obvious: No expensive drinks to buy; the ability to ignore pushy customers they don't like; a wider selection of customers and they can do it all from their laptop or i phone while watching the TV in their rooms.
It is a vicious circle for Le Cafe - less boys means less farang customers and less farang means less available boys in the bar. People have moved on and getting back the days of Ian, Robbie, Mick etc. is pie in the sky ... no matter who the host is or what type of music is now performed in the new Cafe Music bar.
ABC
Re: Reviving Boyztown. What does it take
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Author: bucknaway ┬╗ Sat 16 Apr, 2011 9:31 pm
Yeah, many of us go to the bars for the guys and the bars force the drag queens on us!
Re: Reviving Boyztown. What does it take
well having just returned from a short trip to Bangkok and pataya, i found the whole sean boring and dead ,Soi twilight has not changed except they have increased there prices yet again ,can they not understand we can not afford to pay over ┬г6.00 a drink, around about ┬г12.00 for two drinks ,its way too much , the shows dont change ,there still the same ,so what are we paying for .i know i only entererd one go go bar in soi twilight because i really will not pay those silly prices ,its works out far too expencive if you are with your boy friend.
Pataya was really very quiet ,, again over priced drinks , no atmosphire, boys bored ,no customers ,WHY?? people can not offord it any more ,there getting completely ripped off,
Gay romeo the internet is a much cheaper option all around. reduce the prices i am sure you will get a lot more customers,100 baht is a reasonable price for a drink ,lower these silly prices and you will sure get a bigger audiance,,wake up boys town ,,before it complewtetly goes down the pan .
Had dinner at Cafe royal , boring over priced ,no customers ,no atmosphere,dead .what has happened there ,i Used to love going there a few years ago ,always ended up in cafe royal ,great late night venue ,.
I will be amazed if it gets back on its feet , its all to do with greed , and greed bites you .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter28
Report this postReply with quote Re: Reviving Boyztown. What does it take
Author: bucknaway ┬╗ Sat 16 Apr, 2011 9:31 pm
Yeah, many of us go to the bars for the guys and the bars force the drag queens on us!
Re: Reviving Boyztown. What does it take
ewen Panaroma is to expensive for what you get, moved on after one or two drink. if there even was some fun as before, I would pay the prices. But is is borring to death. BBB was fun before with the small dancing area, when the shows stopped. Royal was nice before like a nice late venue.
I went on to Sunee and after that went to Bangkok Silom soi 4 and 2. Getting a thunderstorm Gin/Tonic or even Kemicase drink for 100 bht. in DJ and the others bars in Soi 2 is still good value for the money.
Re: Reviving Boyztown. What does it take
The expatas cannot afford the drink prices even if you brought them down to 99 baht as we do. I mean look at Sunee who have their unaircon no show bars at 50 baht and it is still empty! The clubs that have aircon and shows cannot afford 99 baht for everyone all the time. Boyztown rent prices are much higher than Jomtien, Jomtien Complex, and Day Night. I went for the expats originally and, well to tell you the truth, they dont come so often. Its the tourist that still pays the bills. So the bars think, why change the show, the tourists are only here for a week or 10 days.
I can tell you that price, plus value, plus customer service, plus changing the showsplu a healthy economy, and getting the old crap out, makes for a sucsessful bar. We do it and again last night had only TWO seats left unfilled. Bars like this bring customers. Customers into the area revitalize the area. When you start having OWNERS who get the message, then Boyztown will have a fighting chance.
Re: Reviving Boyztown. What does it take
The ways things are going the baht may be trading at 24 baht's to the US Dollar. I may have to drink in my room or outside the 7-11 like the construction workers! :alc:
Re: Reviving Boyztown. What does it take
Quote:
Originally Posted by gaymandenmark
went to Bangkok Silom soi 4 and 2. Getting a thunderstorm Gin/Tonic or even Kemicase drink for 100 bht. in DJ and the others bars in Soi 2 is still good value for the money.
DJ Station and other Soi 2 venues have to remain good value for money because most of their customers are Thais, not farang. And from what I've seen there's no way DJ Station could not make money... it gets PACKED! And the customers tend to stay there most of the night, rather than move onto other bars.
From memory, you pay around 200 baht (includes two drinks) for entry on weekends and 100 baht (includes one drink) on week nights for entry into DJ Station.
Re: Reviving Boyztown. What does it take
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beachlover
And from what I've seen there's no way DJ Station could not make money... it gets PACKED!
So according to the Australia's greatest young entrepreneur, turnover = profit. Not when I did my MBA, son.
Re: Reviving Boyztown. What does it take
the baht was pegged to the U.S. dollar at an exchange rate of 25 baht from 1984 until 1997.
before that, it was even lower. there were only a few years during the asian financial crisis
that the baht rose and the exchange was better for foreigners. the exchange rate is not
the problem. the problem is rising prices in a poor global economy.
it's been said here already, the straight bars, and even the tourist bars on walking street
often have drinks at 99 baht or less. i'm ok with paying a little more, but if i'm gonna
pay ten bucks for a drink and be expected to buy drinks for boys and hang out for a while
ordering more, then there's got to be more going on than a few queeny boys walking around
in their underwear. the clubs, discos and other venues are just more attractive.
one of my favorite gay bars in san diego has $2 drinks every wednesday all night. that's
cheaper than 99 baht! they have free pizza another night every week. every night is a
different themed event.
expats will always complain that prices are too high, and that there aren't enough boys...
while they sit around and wish for the old days before the internet. for a lot of gay
tourists (notice i didn't say sex-tourists) who want to enjoy thailand and all it has to
offer, they're not going to be too concerned about pushy mamasans and music that's too loud.
they'll simply leave and go do something else...like a concert or disco or full moon party or
a million other things.
Re: Reviving Boyztown. What does it take
Quote:
Originally Posted by thonglor55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beachlover
And from what I've seen there's no way DJ Station could not make money... it gets PACKED!
So according to the Australia's greatest young entrepreneur, turnover = profit. Not when I did my MBA, son.
high turnover with a low margin of profit beats low turnover with a high profit, daddy.
Re: Reviving Boyztown. What does it take
Quote:
Originally Posted by netrix
Quote:
Originally Posted by thonglor55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beachlover
And from what I've seen there's no way DJ Station could not make money... it gets PACKED!
So according to the Australia's greatest young entrepreneur, turnover = profit. Not when I did my MBA, son.
high turnover with a low margin of profit beats low turnover with a high profit, daddy.
That depends entirely on the nature of the business.
Simplistic example: it might work for Wal-Mart, but not for a single-operation bar in Pattaya
:occasion9:
Re: Reviving Boyztown. What does it take
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottish-guy
Simplistic example: it might work for Wal-Mart, but not for a single-operation bar in Pattaya
please explain.
i agree with shared logistics, distribution, volume wholesale discounts, etc. high sales
at low prices is more profitable than a mom and pop store trying to compete at the same
prices.
but i don't care if we're talking about a lemonade stand. if you sell lemonade at $9 a
cup, and i move in across the street and start selling it at $3 a cup, then it's simple math.
all i need is 3 times more clients to make the same revenues as you.
but here's the deal. with more customers (and more HAPPY customers i might add) that
means more word of mouth free promotion. it also means that the same customers will
not only come back more often, but they'll spend more than they would otherwise.
even if the result is an initial loss-leader, the increase in publicity and repeat customers
would make up for it.
Re: Reviving Boyztown. What does it take
Quote:
Originally Posted by netrix
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottish-guy
Simplistic example: it might work for Wal-Mart, but not for a single-operation bar in Pattaya
please explain....all i need is 3 times more clients to make the same revenues as you....
Well you've just answered your own question - every day you need 3 x as many customers as I do and you will increasingly need to be able to attract them on more than just price as no business keeps all it's customers on the basis of the original proposition - you have to increasingly offer more. If you attract them on the price alone, that becomes the expectation and a proportion won't come back just for that, they want something extra next time, which further reduces your profit!
Also, suppose it's not lemonade - which is popular and easy to sell, suppose it's a product that only a limited number of people want like.....rentboys? Is there sufficient demand for you to be able to attract 3x as many customers as me? :dontknow:
And there's one more factor which comes into play especially where booze is concerned - the lower the price you sell it at the more deadbeats and trouble-makers you attract, which drives away a proportion of other "decent" customers who would rather pay more and avoid e.g. drunken Russians throwing bottles around the bar every now and again.
All I'm saying is high turnover/low profit does not suit every business, many can prosper better using the reverse formula.
:occasion9:
Re: Reviving Boyztown. What does it take
[quote=scottish-guy]
Quote:
Originally Posted by netrix
Quote:
Originally Posted by "scottish-guy":1979javc
Simplistic example: it might work for Wal-Mart, but not for a single-operation bar in Pattaya
please explain....all i need is 3 times more clients to make the same revenues as you....
Well you've just answered your own question - every day you need 3 x as many customers as I do and you will increasingly need to be able to attract them on more than just price as no business keeps all it's customers on the basis of the original proposition - you have to increasingly offer more. If you attract them on the price alone, that becomes the expectation and a proportion won't come back just for that, they want something extra next time, which further reduces your profit!
Also, suppose it's not lemonade - which is popular and easy to sell, suppose it's a product that only a limited number of people want like.....rentboys? Is there sufficient demand for you to be able to attract 3x as many customers as me? :dontknow:
And there's one more factor which comes into play especially where booze is concerned - the lower the price you sell it at the more deadbeats and trouble-makers you attract, which drives away a proportion of other "decent" customers.
All I'm saying is high turnover/low profit does not suit every business, many can prosper better using the reverse formula.
:occasion9:[/quote:1979javc]
well thanks for clarifying but i disagree with every point you make.
there are crowds in some bars and not in others. the question is why.
figure that out and you'll get more customers more often spending more.
that's exponentially more revenue.
but i'm not advocating building a business model on price alone, i was
simply defending beach's comment from the naysayers. DJ is always
crowded and has low drink prices. that doesn't mean they're crowded
BECAUSE they have low drink prices, there are other reasons too, but
i'm sure it helps. customers there stay for hours and drink all night,
while customers at dream boys down the road nurse one drink all night.
Re: Reviving Boyztown. What does it take
[quote=scottish-guy][quote=netrix][quote="scottish-guy":1dzksmvo]
Simplistic example: it might work for Wal-Mart, but not for a single-operation bar in Pattaya
[/quote]
please explain....all i need is 3 times more clients to make the same revenues as you....[/quote]
Well you've just answered your own question - every day you need 3 x as many customers as I do and you will increasingly need to be able to attract them on more than just price as no business keeps all it's customers on the basis of the original proposition - you have to increasingly offer more. If you attract them on the price alone, that becomes the [b]expectation[/b] and a proportion won't come back just for that, they want something extra next time, which further reduces your profit!
Also, suppose it's not lemonade - which is popular and easy to sell, suppose it's a product that only a limited number of people want like.....rentboys? Is there sufficient demand for you to be able to attract 3x as many customers as me? :dontknow:
And there's one more factor which comes into play especially where booze is concerned - the lower the price you sell it at the more deadbeats and trouble-makers you attract, which drives away a proportion of other "decent" customers who would rather pay more and avoid e.g. drunken Russians throwing bottles around the bar every now and again.
All I'm saying is high turnover/low profit does not suit every business, many can prosper better using the reverse formula.
:occasion9:[/quote:1dzksmvo]
Scotish Guy got it dead on...The basic strategies are product differentiation or low cost.
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porter_generic_strategies"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porter_generic_strategies[/url]
Read the posted wiki link for an explanation of the differences between the basic business strategies.
Scottish Guy are you an economist?
Re: Reviving Boyztown. What does it take
:sign5:
Do I sound that boring?
Don't answer that!!
:sign5:
Re: Reviving Boyztown. What does it take
Quote:
Originally Posted by netrix
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottish-guy
All I'm saying is high turnover/low profit does not suit every business, many can prosper better using the reverse formula.
well thanks for clarifying but i disagree with every point you make.
If you disagree that a sustainable business can be run on a low turnover/high profit model, then I'm sorry but you're just plain wrong. Where there is a niche market it is often the ONLY viable stategy.
:dontknow:
Re: Reviving Boyztown. What does it take
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beachlover
Quote:
Originally Posted by gaymandenmark
went to Bangkok Silom soi 4 and 2. Getting a thunderstorm Gin/Tonic or even Kemicase drink for 100 bht. in DJ and the others bars in Soi 2 is still good value for the money.
DJ Station and other Soi 2 venues have to remain good value for money because most of their customers are Thais, not farang. And from what I've seen there's no way DJ Station could not make money... it gets PACKED! And the customers tend to stay there most of the night, rather than move onto other bars.
From memory, you pay around 200 baht (includes two drinks) for entry on weekends and 100 baht (includes one drink) on week nights for entry into DJ Station.
What is also interesting, I think my gin/tonic has cost the same for the last 10 years, also in the other venues in the Soi.
They are doing very well.
Yes the entry fee is 200 baht on weekends (incl. 2 drinks) and 100 baht in week nights (incl. 1 drink).
DJ Station is not for everyone, but I like it very much, even if I think it can be to crowded in the weekends.
BTW I find the drinks on the dancefloor to be much weaker, than on the other two floors.
Re: Reviving Boyztown. What does it take
Quote:
Originally Posted by kquill
Gents,
I find the posts criticising David unfair in the extreme.
I would like to take this opportunity to set the record straight on a few issues here. Le Cafe Royale was going down the pan around 2001 when I got involved with them. The additional rooms,which were new and brought in by me in a' loose partnership ' this business was for mutual benefit of all of us.
I used their reception for bookings and we shared costs for maids and handymen and they got the benefit of new rooms, increased coffee shop and Bar trade, as well as the appearance of a new wing or new ' string to the bow'
I told Old Ian (Read) time and time again about refurbishing the rooms. I will not go into the ins and outs,safe to say they were not done right up to Ians death. Robbie was ill at the time and had limited interest. To make matters worse, I developed throat cancer and Ian McKnight also passed away.
I sold out after my operation for Cancer in 2006, Ian Read died whilst I was having my operation.
Robbie died in 2008 after I had been sent to prison,(another disgrace). Whilst I was in prison,Mick went down and then later died of a Brain aneurysm. Also, My Thai Manager, Yoe, of Throb and Splash died of Cancer at a very young age.
I think we can safely say a lot happened during this period of time. However, Le Cafe had needed an uplift/refurb call it what you want for a long time. Tom,the American day manager had a great deal to cope with throughout all this.
David was brought in as a night manager to a place already beset by grief and catastrophe. David had to basically attempt raising a ' Phoenix from the ashes ' of the Cafe.
During this time,because of difficulties between my old place,(now Copa) and Le Cafe,they split from the ' mutually beneficial trading arrangement' for whatever reasons.
So all in all, David has not had it easy and has tried his best to get the place on track with using the best of his ideas and knowledge to achieve this.
I believe there were constraints on budgets which I won't go into,but he has done his best.
On top of all this, a global recession hit and an economic downturn around the World,as you all know. This was followed by the Red shirts/yellow shirts,airport closures, change of clientele to mainly Russians and a revolution in the way the Thai boys operate with the advent of Gay Romeo and the like.
How anybody can blame poor bloody David in all of this is beyond belief. He has had to start from scratch with a premises that has suffered unbelievable ill fortune, he has also continued with his Thais for Life efforts, Ban jing jai, various other fundraising for Heartt 2000 and still kept a smile on his face.
Yes, I do believe the rooms need a makeover,which is not Davids department or wasn't.
He needs time and a bit of support which I believe he is getting from various quarters. He is not a remote guy,he is a people person who would certainly listen to proposals from customers that he believed would improve trade and benefit the people who frequent the Cafe Royale.
I have said in other posts that times are changing, new ideas need to come but if anyone deserves a break,it is David and Le Cafe Royale. A bit like a football team really, you have to try new ideas, players and moves to see what is a winning formula.
I wish him the very best of luck for the future and Tom as well...... :notworthy: :notworthy:
Totally agree with you.David is doing all that can be done.I will be staying there next week.
Re: Reviving Boyztown. What does it take
Quote:
Originally Posted by gaymandenmark
DJ Station... I find the drinks on the dancefloor to be much weaker, than on the other two floors.
Interesting. I buy drinks from all 4 bars and haven't noticed this. How noticeable is the difference and was it just once or twice or have you noticed it consistently?
Re: Reviving Boyztown. What does it take
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beachlover
Quote:
Originally Posted by gaymandenmark
DJ Station... I find the drinks on the dancefloor to be much weaker, than on the other two floors.
Interesting. I buy drinks from all 4 bars and haven't noticed this. How noticeable is the difference and was it just once or twice or have you noticed it consistently?
I have noticed it more often than the opposite.
But to be honest, I almost buy my drinks in the same bar, where the bartenders knows me quite well, also as a smiling and good customer.
My thai friends almost always go to the same bar, that is how I found out, and that is why I am a known face to the staff there. :cheers: