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Re: Expat Income Requirements Changing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
goji
It would be very nice if someone would do a nice logical Excel table summarizing the difference between all the different Thai visa categories.
They rarely use tools like "Excel" in Thailand. That would make it too easy for people to see the discrepancies.
No Excel spreadsheet needed to describe the difference between the O and O-A visas being discussed. The only difference between the O and O-A that effects retired expats is that the O-A started requiring health insurance (3M THB) effective Oct 1, 2021, and the O doesn't require health insurance YET. With that exception, these two visa classifications are inherently the same.
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Re: Expat Income Requirements Changing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bkkguy
and GB, despite your constant protestations, not everyone is in the same situation as you are
Thank you for pointing that out. Until your post I thought everyone was in the exact same situation I'm in.
I'm waiting for you to tell me all about how there are still a number of scenarios where a Non O-A visa may be a better choice than getting the O visa within Thailand and provide some examples.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Armando
the 800,000 route was changed only a couple of years ago to make that route more difficult for many people. For how much longer will that 65K remain at that level?
And I was in favor of the change. It was one of the few times I thought what they were doing made good sense. A significant number of people supposedly were cheating one way or another, which I bitterly resented since I was doing it honestly. The changes made it more difficult for people to cheat.
However, I definitely dislike being forced to keep 800.000 baht untouchable in a Thai bank account.
As for any upcoming changes, whether to the 800,000 baht rule or the 65,000 baht per month rule, I too think it will happen, but bear in mind all we have to go on is sheer speculation. There has been absolutely nothing from the Thai end to indicate changes are coming or even contemplated. No way to prepare for any changes because there is no way to have any idea what those changes might be or who they would affect - if they happen at all.
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Re: Expat Income Requirements Changing?
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Originally Posted by
Gaybutton
.
Again, I don't know why anyone would want the O-A visa rather than the O.
You made your point crystal clear when recommending to our readers that they run out and switch from O-A to O based on your opinion.
You shouldn't be making that sort of recommendation to anybody at this stage. When Immigration announces the changes coming our way, people will be in a position to decide what actions to take, if any.
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Re: Expat Income Requirements Changing?
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Originally Posted by
Dodger
You shouldn't be making that sort of recommendation to anybody at this stage.
The idea that changes are coming our way is sheer speculation on your part, based on absolutely nothing. I know of no indication of any kind coming from the Thai government or immigration that any changes are even being considered.
But you have my apologies. I forgot that before I express my opinion I'm supposed to get your approval first and abide by your decision as to what I should or should not say. I'll try to remember that.
I'll express my opinion whenever I want, especially when I think I'm right, just like you or anyone else can do. Whether anyone wants to agree with or follow my opinion or advice is their own choice. But I do not intend to have my opinions and right to express them suppressed by you or anyone else. I'm not holding a gun to anyone's head to even read my opinions, let alone pay any attention to them.
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Re: Expat Income Requirements Changing?
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Originally Posted by
Gaybutton
I'll express my opinion whenever I want, especially when I think I'm right......
Which of course is all the time.
My opinion was (and is) that you should not have recommended to people that they run out and change their visa classifications until the changes have been made. I never once insinuated that your OPINION wasn't valid, I merely cautioned you from making this type of premature RECOMMENDATION when you haven't the foggiest clue what the visa changes will involve.
Having an OPINION is fine (welcome to the club), but when you start telling people to act on that opinion, it becomes a "Recommendation" which some people, including potential newcomers with no experience with these matters, could react to. Frankly, I would think someone with your experience on these Boards would understand that.
If you still don't get it...just add it to your list
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Re: Expat Income Requirements Changing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dodger
If you still don't get it...just add it to your list
Well of course it's all the time. I don't post my opinions, recommendations, or whatever you want to call it if I think I'm wrong. Do you?
If I am later convinced I was wrong, I say so. I know you do too. Unfortunately, many don't.
I completely disagree with you on this, so consider it added . . .
And I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me in what way the O-A visa is ever better than getting the O visa within Thailand.
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Re: Expat Income Requirements Changing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gaybutton
Then I'll repeat my question: What am I missing? Give me an example of a scenario in which the O-A is a better choice than the O.
I am much too polite to suggest that you may be missing the knowledge of the how the Non O-A visa works and the imagination to imagine how other people might use the visa - but I am sure you would be quick to dismiss any specific examples I give as unrealistic or irrelevant
so make some effort yourself and read up on the non O-A visa and try to imagine who might perhaps be interested in a scenario like spending two years in Thailand doing just 90 day reports and perhaps one re-entry permit application, no extension of permission to stay, no proving transfer of funds to Thailand
and remember, don't base your cost/benefit analysis just on your own ideas of value for money and convenience - unless you are just justifying your own personal choice - because even for people who want to "retire" to Thailand "forever" the difference between a Non O visa and extensions in Thailand, multiple Non O-A visas from your home country and even an Elite visa are based on other people's personal choices and shouldn't be dismissed just because you think you know better about what is best for them
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Re: Expat Income Requirements Changing?
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Originally Posted by
bkkguy
I am sure you would be quick to dismiss any specific examples I give as unrealistic or irrelevant
Most likely, just as I dismiss evasive responses like this one.
If you can't provide an example, not even one, just say so.
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Re: Expat Income Requirements Changing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gaybutton
Well of course it's all the time. I don't post my opinions, recommendations, or whatever you want to call it if I think I'm wrong. Do you?
A little knowledge and a lot of arrogance is a dangerous combination. Fortunately on this forum misleading opinions can be challenged.
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Re: Expat Income Requirements Changing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gaybutton
Most likely, just as I dismiss evasive responses like this one.
no, once you have decided you know the "right" answer you just dismiss anyone who disagrees with you
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Re: Expat Income Requirements Changing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bkkguy
no, once you have decided you know the "right" answer you just dismiss anyone who disagrees with you
Nonsense. I have been wrong many times and will probably be wrong many more times. When I realize I've been wrong I post and admit it - something I've never seen you do. Of course you're never wrong, are you?
And here you are, still evading giving even one example, but you'll keep coming up with these kinds of posts to try to get out of it rather than just admit you can't come up with anything at all to back your stance. If you can provide an example, let's have it.
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Re: Expat Income Requirements Changing?
There was a member of at least one of the Boards who came to the realisation after living here for at least 12 years that he could not meet the new regulations which came in for the 800K route. He decided instead he would go the O-A route. So he returned to the USA, got the O-A visa and came back knowing he had basically two years in Thailand (provided he took one short trip outside the country at the end of Year 1). He returned to the USA before the end of Year 2, got another O-A and was again totally pleased that he had taken that route. As @bkkguy points out, no cash in the bank requirements. It fitted his requirements almost perfectly.
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Re: Expat Income Requirements Changing?
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Originally Posted by
Armando
It fitted his requirements almost perfectly.
Thank you. Finally an example. I'm glad it works well for him.
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Re: Expat Income Requirements Changing?
Nothing entertains me more than watching a couple of cantankerous old queens slogging it out
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Re: Expat Income Requirements Changing?
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Originally Posted by
goji
Firstly, Thailand is perfectly entitled to target only wealthy retirees.
However, to join the Elite scheme, you either need to be truly Elite ?
If you were truly ELITE, why would you retire to Thailand?
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Re: Expat Income Requirements Changing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Armando
As @bkkguy points out, no cash in the bank requirements. It fitted his requirements almost perfectly.
So I gather he must use the 65,000 baht monthly transfer into his Thai bank account.
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Re: Expat Income Requirements Changing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Manforallseasons
So I gather he must use the 65,000 baht monthly transfer into his Thai bank account.
Not at all. The original version of the O-A only required money outside Thailand which was easy enough to "prove". It was a 12-month multiple-entry visa so people could leave at month 11.5 and re-enter, receiving a further 12 months. It's a loophole that may still exist I believe but now new applications have to show the mandatory health insurance which complicates matters.
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Re: Expat Income Requirements Changing?
What we know:
All retirement visas are inherently the same as they are all issued pursuant to Section 34 (15) of the Thai Immigration Act. The only significant difference between the O and O-A visas is their place of application, and the fact that the O-A visa holders were required to have 3M THB in health insurance, effective Oct 1, 2021.
- Visa changes are in the process of being made (confirmed)
- Programs established for attracting wealthy retiree's (confirmed)
- Financial income requirements for Long Stays to be increased (highly probable)
- Insurance policies for expats > 70 y/o fully developed and available for purchase (confirmed)
- Health insurance mandate standardized across all Long Stay visa classifications (possible)
- Visa classification restructuring, i.e., streamlined, simplified, updated, gaps closed (probable)
- Grandfather clause for income requirements similar to 1998/2003 revisions (possible)
- Continuous extension provisions established to quality for Grandfathering (possible)
What we can assume from what we know:
- Changes will be introduced sometime in 2022 (probable)
- All retirees with Long Stay visas will be required to have health insurance (3M THB) (possible)
- Retirees who have >2 yrs continuous extensions, with no interruptions, classification changes, cancellations, or lapses, may be grandfathered from income increase (possible). Ranked "possible" because this is how immigration handled grandfathering to the 2003 revisions.
Note: The financial income requirement for retirees was last changed to 800k baht and 65k baht income in 2003. Marriage was changed from 250k baht and 25k baht income to the 400k baht and 40 baht amounts in the same year. Those who were on continuous extensions of stay based upon retirement in 1998 were grandfathered and the 2003 increase did not apply to them.
Why would it be important to not change your visa classification at this time? Because doing so could potentially be considered a break in your “continuous extensions” as interpreted by Immigration, resulting in your disqualification from being “grandfathered”. This of course is only speculation at this time, but in the event this were to happen, you could potentially be forced to comply with the revised (2022) financial income requirement.
General Visa Stuff:
Thailand has 11 different major visa types as follows:
- Special tourist visa (STV)…not to confused with STD
- Tourist visa (TR)
- Non-immigrant Visa-B (Business)…and MFAS
- Non-immigrant Visa-B (Working)
- Non-immigrant Visa-ED
- Non-immigrant Visa-O-A (Long Stay)
- Non-immigrant Visa O-X (Long Stay)
- Non-immigrant Visa-O (Thai Spouse)
- SMART Visa
- Tourist MT Visa (Medical Treatment)
- Elite Visa
For comparison purposes, the U.S has 31 major visa types, China has 16, Cambodia 6, and Australia with over a hundred. Cambodia is the only country (of the ones mentioned) that actually has a Retirement Visa (ER) for foreign nationals over the age of 55 who are retired and can support themselves financially without working. This 12 month visa can be extended annually.
On a personal note: Cambodia is my Plan B. If Thailand doesn’t get its act together in 2022 - Cambodia may have a new retiree from Chicago and his partner from Thailand moving in. It's not the visa changes that I'm concerned with. I'm concerned with the way expat retirees are treated in general. If Thailand starts treating their internal investors (retirees) with the same level of care and priority as their external investors I'm sure I'd be happy. But that may require miracle.
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Re: Expat Income Requirements Changing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
StevieWonders
Not at all. The original version of the O-A only required money outside Thailand which was easy enough to "prove". It was a 12-month multiple-entry visa so people could leave at month 11.5 and re-enter, receiving a further 12 months. It's a loophole that may still exist I believe but now new applications have to show the mandatory health insurance which complicates matters.
Holy shit, there you are. I thought you were dead, and Covid got the better of you. Welcome back.
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Re: Expat Income Requirements Changing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dodger
What we know
Guess what - I completely agree with your post. And they say miracles don't happen . . .
Regarding grandfathering - since many of us are old enough to be grandfathers, they ought to give us the benefit.
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Re: Expat Income Requirements Changing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dodger
Thailand has 11 different major visa types as follows:
- Special tourist visa (STV)…not to confused with STD
- Tourist visa (TR)
- Non-immigrant Visa-B (Business)…and MFAS
- Non-immigrant Visa-B (Working)
- Non-immigrant Visa-ED
- Non-immigrant Visa-O-A (Long Stay)
- Non-immigrant Visa O-X (Long Stay)
- Non-immigrant Visa-O (Thai Spouse)
- SMART Visa
- Tourist MT Visa (Medical Treatment)
- Elite Visa
Following the example of another member, for my next trip I have a Non-Immigrant O, with no requirement for Thai spouse. Thankfully. 90 days.
Last year I did not spot that option, so got a tourist visa (60 days) and had to waste a little time going to Jomtien immigration to get an extra 30 days.
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Re: Expat Income Requirements Changing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Manforallseasons
So I gather he must use the 65,000 baht monthly transfer into his Thai bank account.
As @StevieWonders pointed out, no income requirement in Thailand. Only new item is the proof of medical insurance when you apply.
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Re: Expat Income Requirements Changing?
You guys worry way too much about this whole VISA and immigration thing. I lived in Thailand for 8 years without paying a single fee or visit to the immigration department.
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Re: Expat Income Requirements Changing?
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Originally Posted by
cdnmatt
You guys worry way too much about this whole VISA and immigration thing. I lived in Thailand for 8 years without paying a single fee or visit to the immigration department.
No doubt that's one reason you were deported and have been stuck in Canada for years unable to return! Not the best idea for those considering a move to Thailand.
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Re: Expat Income Requirements Changing?
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Originally Posted by
Armando
No doubt that's one reason you were deported and have been stuck in Canada for years unable to return! Not the best idea for those considering a move to Thailand.
That was my own fault for trusting Leo that it's a good idea to move to Vientiane.
Nowadays, I can't get back due to Covid ravaging Laos. They've been at over 1000 cases everyday for a while now, and are back into strict lockdown by district. I'll be crying tears of joy once I finally get there and am able to give my guy a hug and tell him everything will be alright.
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Re: Expat Income Requirements Changing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cdnmatt
......I'll be crying tears of joy once I finally get there and am able to give my guy a hug and tell him everything will be alright.
I have a feeling he'll be crying too.
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Re: Expat Income Requirements Changing?
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Originally Posted by
Dodger
I have a feeling he'll be crying too.
How about you put me back on ignore, and kindly [Deleted text]? That would be greatly appreciated, thanks.
I'm 40 now, I'm old, tired, and simply do not have the time or patience for folks like you. If you can't manage to muster up the common decency required to treat your fellow human with a bit of respect, then you can kindly [Deleted text] out of my life.
Thanks in advance for your participation in this matter.
Some text in this post was deleted under rule 4.7.
Jellybean
Moderator
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Re: Expat Income Requirements Changing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cdnmatt
You guys worry way too much about this whole VISA and immigration thing. I lived in Thailand for 8 years without paying a single fee or visit to the immigration department.
Not sure you should be bragging about that, matt!
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Re: Expat Income Requirements Changing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
francois
Not sure you should be bragging about that, matt!
I can't tell you how little I give a shit. If you haven't noticed, the world is fucked.
I'll give you a very small example. Trudeau, the Prime Minister of Canada went and created a new national holiday called the day of reconciliation or something for the indengenious.
Want to know how he spent the holiday that he created? He partied with his billionaire friends in Tofino (northeren part of Vancouver Island) who ended up in the Pandora Papers, because of course that's who Trudeau's friends are. And you actually expect me to give a shit about things like tax and immigration law?
The people who write the laws don't follow them, so why would I?
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Re: Expat Income Requirements Changing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cdnmatt
The people who write the laws don't follow them, so why would I?
Because nothing, or nothing serious, ever seems to happen to those people, but people like us are the ones who get penalized and end up suffering the consequences.
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Re: Expat Income Requirements Changing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gaybutton
Because nothing, or nothing serious, ever seems to happen to those people, but people like us are the ones who get penalized and end up suffering the consequences.
That kind of all depends on how much of a donation you can provide to the authorities, now doesn't it?
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Re: Expat Income Requirements Changing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cdnmatt
You guys worry way too much about this whole VISA and immigration thing. I lived in Thailand for 8 years without paying a single fee or visit to the immigration department.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cdnmatt
Want to know how he spent the holiday that he created? He partied with his billionaire friends in Tofino (northeren part of Vancouver Island) who ended up in the Pandora Papers, because of course that's who Trudeau's friends are. And you actually expect me to give a shit about things like tax and immigration law?
The people who write the laws don't follow them, so why would I?
So what is the connection??
Sorry shouldn’t be feeding the troll...
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Re: Expat Income Requirements Changing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cdnmatt
I'm old, tired, and simply do not have the time or patience for folks like you
The truth will out.
So why bother with all the posting, I wonder?
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Re: Expat Income Requirements Changing?
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Re: Expat Income Requirements Changing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cdnmatt
You guys worry way too much about this whole VISA and immigration thing. I lived in Thailand for 8 years without paying a single fee or visit to the immigration department.
Now that's an euphemism for "overstay"!
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Re: Expat Income Requirements Changing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cdnmatt
You guys worry way too much about this whole VISA and immigration thing. I lived in Thailand for 8 years without paying a single fee or visit to the immigration department.
Well you were thrown out of the country and barred from re-entering...you should have worried or you would not be in the fix you are in..