Re: Thailand Aids Vaccine results
IтАЩm guessing that with comments like these, some of you donтАЩt have many / if any friends with HIV. Every case is different. How absurd it is to assume that this is simply a matter of decisions.
I have quite a few friends that are HIV positive. Many became infected in relationships that they thought were monogamous. They never thought they needed to use protection in a relationship where their only sexual partner started out HIV negative. How many of us here are in or think weтАЩre in monogamous relationships? How many still like to eat out from time to time, with / without your partner knowing or suspect your partner of doing the same?
Party drugs have had a huge impact on infection rates. There is an undercurrent of this sort of thing on gay social sites, in bathhouses at rave parties on Craigslist. Crystal Meth (Yaba) and sex play is known as тАЬparty and playтАЭ or PnP. Certainly none of these terms are foreign to Thailand.
How about the world of porn? One of the biggest tickets out there appears to be BB or barebacking. ThereтАЩs a fascination with BB for some reason, that when combined with any of the above leads to infections and the domino effect.
ThereтАЩs a great big mix happening out there. People from opposite sides of the city and indeed opposite sides of the world are meeting up, hooking up. All that crap that I described above is floating in that big mix of people. You may never know how close youтАЩve come to any of this crap or even becoming infected yourselfтАжor maybe you do.
Re: Thailand Aids Vaccine results
I can understand testing vaccines on lab rats or mice, but asking for volunteers, especially for HIV.
It's like telling these people that they'll eventually contract the virus anyway so they may as well test the vaccine for them. THem being major drug corporations who will make huge massive profits from these vaccines, at the peril of these people who agree to this.
I hope they're being compensates well for putting their lives on the line.
Re: Thailand Aids Vaccine results
Quote:
Originally Posted by soi_toi
I can understand testing vaccines on lab rats or mice, but asking for volunteers, especially for HIV.
It's like telling these people that they'll eventually contract the virus anyway so they may as well test the vaccine for them. THem being major drug corporations who will make huge massive profits from these vaccines, at the peril of these people who agree to this.
I hope they're being compensates well for putting their lives on the line.
I think there's some misunderstanding here on a couple of points.
Based on what I've read about this study, the volunteers (both the ones given the test vaccine and the ones given the placebo) were provided counseling about safe sex practices and the danger of HIV. For the volunteers who ended up testing positive for HIV, they apparently ignored the counseling advice given and obviously engaged in unprotected sex. I don't see how you can blame the study for that (those that contracted the disease didn't get it from the vaccine being tested).
And all vaccines are ultimately tested this way (to my knowledge, no vaccine has ever been administered to the public simply by studying how lab rats react to it).
Re: Thailand Aids Vaccine results
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gone Fishing
My ex's wife in Pattaya, who was obviously not practicing safe sex as she had already had one son with him and at the time the study started was pregnant with another despite knowing that my ex was HIV+, was never asked about the study by the government doctor regularly checking her, even though he knew the HIV status of both of them.
Goodness... interesting situation.
So the wife had unsafe sex with him knowing he was HIV+? I hope the son didn't get it. Or was he conceived before the husband had HIV?
Re: Thailand Aids Vaccine results
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surfcrest
IтАЩm guessing that with comments like these, some of you donтАЩt have many / if any friends with HIV. Every case is different. How absurd it is to assume that this is simply a matter of decisions.
I have quite a few friends that are HIV positive. Many became infected in relationships that they thought were monogamous. They never thought they needed to use protection in a relationship where their only sexual partner started out HIV negative. How many of us here are in or think weтАЩre in monogamous relationships? How many still like to eat out from time to time, with / without your partner knowing or suspect your partner of doing the same?
Party drugs have had a huge impact on infection rates. There is an undercurrent of this sort of thing on gay social sites, in bathhouses at rave parties on Craigslist. Crystal Meth (Yaba) and sex play is known as тАЬparty and playтАЭ or PnP. Certainly none of these terms are foreign to Thailand.
How about the world of porn? One of the biggest tickets out there appears to be BB or barebacking. ThereтАЩs a fascination with BB for some reason, that when combined with any of the above leads to infections and the domino effect.
ThereтАЩs a great big mix happening out there. People from opposite sides of the city and indeed opposite sides of the world are meeting up, hooking up. All that crap that I described above is floating in that big mix of people. You may never know how close youтАЩve come to any of this crap or even becoming infected yourselfтАжor maybe you do.
You're right... I don't know anyone (that I'm aware of) with it. I'm sure I've come across it before.
That's why I'm curious as to how normally-rational (or perhaps, irrational?) people get it. I saw Nicholas Snow's story on YouTube... seems like he was depressed and lonely at the time and a younger guy convinced him he was clean so he took the risk... even though (he says) he has always had safe sex previously. What a terrible slip up.
I've never BB'd so no idea what it feels like. But the condom is so thin, I don't know if not having it on makes that much of a difference. The last time I topped the boy was so tight it felt amazing once it was in...
Yeah, I've heard a lot of people get it when they're in a long-term relationship and decide it's ok to start having unsafe sex. I heard someone say this is one way women get it too... from their bi-sexual husbands.
Re: Thailand Aids Vaccine results
Quote:
Originally Posted by soi_toi
I can understand testing vaccines on lab rats or mice, but asking for volunteers, especially for HIV.
It's like telling these people that they'll eventually contract the virus anyway so they may as well test the vaccine for them. THem being major drug corporations who will make huge massive profits from these vaccines, at the peril of these people who agree to this.
I hope they're being compensates well for putting their lives on the line.
1. I don't think there's any other way to properly test a vaccine... would you start injecting 6 billion people with something untested on even a small sample of humans?
2. I don't think they're giving the message that these people will eventually contract it anyway... they're simply doing the study on a massive number of people knowing that a certain percentage of them will be exposed to it. Having said that... I agree it is a bit gruesome... but it needs to be done. And remember that 99%+ of the people didn't end up with HIV... as opposed to 1/3 people getting cancer and similar large percentages of people dying from heart problems.
3. The massive profits from these vaccines/drugs is justified. Part of the profits needs to go back into recouping research costs. Without these drug companies, who's going to fund (and have the incentive to work hard at) finding a cure/vaccine? These drug companies take massive risks... investing millions and billions into research, which may never earn them a cent. You need someone with deep pockets for this. Part of the profits they make go back into research for more vaccines/cures/drugs. Part of it goes to the business owners as reward for risk.
Making some of these critical drugs cheaper in developing countries is a great thought (I hear some countries threaten to just go ahead and manufacturing them without license) but the worry is... if you take away the drug company's certainty of making profits... you also take away their incentive to research and develop new medicines. The risk factor goes up if they know there's a chance part of their profits would be taken away.
Not saying drug companies are completely innocent (far from it)... but the commercial/incentive dynamics need to be taken into account.
Re: Thailand Aids Vaccine results
Thailand has never been anywhere near it's previous estimates about the numbers of HIV positive people or any other number put out that they think might damage 'the reputation' of the country such as their ridiculous numbers with regard to the number of people working in the sex industry etc. etc.
Anything that the scientists come up with that might better help protect from any known virus is a great thing, but because this particular (HIV) virus is such a clever one, mutating itself into different strains over the years I think we are still a very long way away from a vacine, if indeed they ever come up with one. On a good light better drugs to combat the progression of illnesses caused by being infected can indeed come about by these continuing programs. Again, safe sex is the only sure prevention.....
:cheers:
Re: Thailand Aids Vaccine results
I agree... a vaccine is likely a long way off. But it may happen eventually... they've only been going for 20 years and there's plenty of vaccines, which have taken decades to research.
For the drug companies... the incentive is that if anyone were to develop a vaccine... the demand for it would be unbelievably high. If they got just $5 from everyone who was vaccinated....
Re: Thailand Aids Vaccine results
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beachlover
I agree... a vaccine is likely a long way off. But it may happen eventually... they've only been going for 20 years and there's plenty of vaccines, which have taken decades to research.
For the drug companies... the incentive is that if anyone were to develop a vaccine... the demand for it would be unbelievably high. If they got just $5 from everyone who was vaccinated....
Agreed the demand would be high, but in the same light consider how much the drug companies are making now on manufaturing/supplying anti viral HIV drugs, the amounts are astronomical......
:cheers:
Re: Thailand Aids Vaccine results
I don't trust the study at all. For one major reason; it is from Thailand. I have lived and worked here for a while and I know their education system. This country DOES NOT PRODUCE any new thinking, research or studies that are not flawed due to the education system here. Generally, Thai people don't know HOW to think, do research or study.
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