Farangs getting pissed at the 'F' word ...

[Smiles]

Ever felt mildly bothered about being called a 'farang' by Thais? Do you think it's use is demeaning to white foreigners? Are you not at all upset by it?

I remember once ~ quite a few years ago now ~ being on a local bus somewhere up by Phitsanulok motoring south toward Khorat. It was a long, stop/start, sweaty ride and the first leg of the trip was so crowded the seats were all taken and the aisles were chock a block full. When we first got on Suphot and I were separated on this packed-to-the-gills rattletrap ... he way to the back and me up front across from the driver. The spare driver stood in front of me the whole time, staring at me lazily (although I think he was actually looking through me, into the distance somewhere)

This went on for hours and the bus never emptied, just replenished at every stop by either more, or new passengers ... five get off, ten get on. We stopped for 20 minutes for pee breaks and some snacks a few hours down the road, and when we got back on the bus it had become much less full, the aisles were now easily manageable, and the seat next to Suphot was empty. So I sat down there, happy to be next to him, the only farang on the bus.

The driver came on board and settled into his seat, and the Spare Guy climbed up behind him and looked around down the aisle: Taking stock? Counting heads? More staring into space?
Then he noticed the seat which I had occupied for a few hours was now glaringly empty! He pondered this for a few seconds and then, at the top of his lungs, screamed:

"WHERE FALANG? WHERE FALANG?" (Employing the more intimidating and dreaded 'L' pronunciation rather than the 'R')

The entire bus ~ all Thai ~ like clockwork turned to face me, all 60 pairs of eyes staring me square in my eye . . . at the dumb farang who had had the temerity to change seats.
I melted into anxiety, started to sweat, poked my head out into the aisle and sheepishly held my arm up ("I'm here" I whispered) . . . rather like in grade school when I desperately needed to pee.
The Thais started to laugh out loud, the Spare Nazi turned away in disgust, the bus started up, and down we went on this rickety old bus toward Khorat. Suphot was laughing as well . . . I was a lonely farang, on a bus, all sheepish and chastened.



There is a quite interesting BangkoK Post message board discussion on this 'farang' concept. I've copied the first few posts below, but there are 4 or 5 pages of it if you are interested. Link to the whole discussion is down below.



Is Farang an f word?

Post by Eggmeng on Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:11 pm [118.173.147.xx]

I'm a Westerner of European descent. In the 16 years I've lived in Thailand I have never gotten used to this word. My step daughter will soon be three years old, and the thought that she will come to accept it as standard usage as she grows up, nauseates me. I am particularly interested in the views of Thais on this subject and hope to get some help here, especially since not one of the many letters I have submitted to BP Postbag over the years on this subject, has ever been printed.

Before I begin my argument, I'd like to point out that there is a polite word in the Thai language which refers to all (non Thai) "foreigners." One transliteration is: khon tang chat. And lest there be any misunderstanding amongst some expat members, a "farang" is a Caucasian. An Indian is not. Nor is a Japanese, a person of Malay descent or any other Asian. Don't take my word for it. Ask a Thai friend.

The f word remains in very wide use. We hear it everywhere and see it in print constantly, even in the mainstream English press. Some of the BP's journalists - including at least one Westerner - continue to use it in their columns. Many Thais (my partner included) and expats in Thailand will insist it is a harmless way of referring to whites, who should not take offense. I would like to put the shoe on the other foot to illustrate why I beg to differ.

What is an English equivalent of this word in Anglophone countries? Well, considering it refers to those with common physical characteristics, i.e. white skin, a long nose and blue or green eyes, (in other words Caucasian and especially European features); "darkie" comes to mind. This word however, generally refers to people of the negroid race, and long ago fell into disuse because understandably, people of African origin in the West objected to being lumped together by shared physical features. Also the word was too often used in a deragatory context, similar to the way some Thais might say "farang kee nee ow" (stingy white person.)

So, I submit that a more apt equivalent for Asians living in predominantly Caucasian countries would be "Chinaman."

When my father was a child in the USA some 70 years ago, this is how he heard his father and his neighbors refer to all Asian immigrants. They were all "Chinamen." and perhaps to some extent, there was at the time, some truth to this, historically. Imagine however, how an assimilated Thai, Japanese, Malaysian, Indonesian, Korean or any Asian would react in the US or the UK or Australia now, to walking into a shop and hearing the young clerk call out;"Hey dad! There's a Chinaman out front!" This and various other objectionable uses of the f word are endured by Westerners every day in the LOS. I loath and despise this word and know that many others feel the same way.

However I also know that Thailand is a developing country, and relatively speaking, is not very multi cultural. I should be patient someone may tell me. However is it too much to expect the English language press, the expatriate community, and the educated Thai classes to have an understanding of why most of the uses of this word are objectionable, so that when I explain to my partner why I don't want my daughter learning it, I can point to the fact that I am not alone?

Eggmeng

Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:06 am

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Re: Is Farang an f word?

Postby Junglejim on Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:25 pm [58.8.64.xx]

Of course it's a raciest term. It's like "Gwala" in Hong Kong. You should find that Thai friends you're close to won't use it in your presence. That's what I've found. If your partner is still using there's something probably wrong or you should teach her to say foreigner. Just about manners for many people rather than a serious dislike of white people. They also say white buffalo (farang Kwai) a lot. I suspect there's many phrases. "Luk farang" means cheat the foreigner, and the there's also one that refers to farang being like bird droppings and of course the phrases that refer to us as stingy and you've mentioned one of them.

The phrase helps to separate us in some people's eyes which can also have it's advantages. Like if we didn't want to follow all the social rules, like cow-towing to some old woman with a fancy hair-do, etc. Well we can just be farang then. We can also escape some of the office politics which believe me is really petty and quite bitchy regardless of sex. We are just farang so be friends with anyone in the office.

Every person is different. If you meet someone and fall for one who thinks farang is just farang..then you're in for trouble. Dump them immediately.

Junglejim

Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:23 pm

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Re: Is Farang an f word?

Post by stilljustbrowsing on Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:29 pm [124.121.139.xx]

You cannot stop your daughter from 'learning' the word, the same as my parents could not stop me from learning swear words.
Educating your daughter on when or when not to use the word is key to your quest. (the same way as I was taught when not to swear)
Don't let simple minds make you angry, instead, try to educate them. :cheers:


Much more at: << http://www.bangkokpost.com/forum//viewt ... =64&t=3665 (http://www.bangkokpost.com/forum//viewtopic.php?f=64&t=3665) >>

[Wesley]

Junglejim

Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:23 pm

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Re: Is Farang an f word?



Very interesting Smiles, much better than the F word you used on me recently.

haha have a great day my friend.

Ah is that better ?

Wes

[Diec]

Do you people need to copy and paste every post you reply to? Like we forget what the subject is about?

[Smiles]

I agree. But it's not "you people", it's Wes in this case, quoting the whole huge post for no reason, annoying everyone.
I don't get it either.

Personaly I have no need nor desire to tavel by local bus but I do sympathise with the like of Smiles who have no other choise.

[GWMinUS]

AHHHH, speaking of Thai buses.
Sometimes that is the only way to get from there to here.

After a wonderful week of touring Issan in Suphot's roomy King Cab, my Thai friend and I where returning from Khorat to BKK on an Express Bus. You know one of those that stops at every cross roads and similar to Smile's bus it was FULL. People sitting in the aisle and this Farang fighting to get a seat.

Well, after one road side stop we where pulling back onto the 4 lane highway and a big truck, lorry to you Brits, just drove into the back side of the bus!!! Right by where we where sitting. Not much damage but we had to abandon the bus and wait 30 minutes for the next Express bus to arrive. Needless to say it was also full so we fought to get onboard. What a scene!!! And this Farang was left standing all the back to Moi Chet!!!

Next time I will hire Suphot to drive us from Burriram back to civilization...

CHEERS :salute:

AHHHH, speaking of Thai buses.
Sometimes that is the only way to get from there to here.

After a wonderful week of touring Issan in Suphot's roomy King Cab, my Thai friend and I where returning from Khorat to BKK on an Express Bus. You know one of those that stops at every cross roads and similar to Smile's bus it was FULL. People sitting in the aisle and this Farang fighting to get a seat.

Well, after one road side stop we where pulling back onto the 4 lane highway and a big truck, lorry to you Brits, just drove into the back side of the bus!!! Right by where we where sitting. Not much damage but we had to abandon the bus and wait 30 minutes for the next Express bus to arrive. Needless to say it was also full so we fought to get onboard. What a scene!!! And this Farang was left standing all the back to Moi Chet!!!

Next time I will hire Suphot to drive us from Burriram back to civilization...

CHEERS :salute:

I'm sure Smiles will be pleased with your charitable deed.

[Dodger]

After spending a decade of long holidays in LOS, I'm fully aware of the cultural influences and intentions behind the term "Farang," although had an issue with this about a year back.

I was sitting in Tapes home with his parents, a few neighbor kids, and a dog with his right ear chewed off, and out comes the term "farang." Tapes mom was on the mobile phone with Tapes sister who resides in Bangkok, and apparently something came up in the discussion about me. I walked outside and motioned Tape to follow. I informed him then-and-there that my name was Vic and I expected to be referred to as Vic by him and his family members hence forth.

My reason for reacting this way wasn't the result of my ignorance related to the routine use of this term, it was because for 5 years I've been visiting Tapes home village and had memorized every single family member by their first names (not an easy chore), and always payed very close attention to their life styles, beliefs, mannerisms, etc., all in an effort to never be in a position where I would offend any of them. Well, that door swings both ways as far as I'm concerned. I built the family a house for Christs sake, the least they can do is show enough respect to call me by my name, and not the general slang term for all the Martians they encounter in their glorious Kingdom of Thailand.

From that day forward, I only heard the term "farang" used once by one of Tapes Aunts, who, after being abruptly informed by Tapes mom, corrected herself and said the word "Vic" loud enough for everyone in the neighborhood to hear. I had to chuckle.

[Beachlover]

Haha... that's an interesting line of thought Dodger. I know Silom Farang at gayboythailand.com get annoyed at being continually called "farang" too... but don't think he really did anything about it, other than returning the favour by calling them "hello Thai".

I'm curious... since you have broken up with Tape. Do you feel any sort of loss (not associated with your love for him) from having built them a house and done other things for them? I think I remember you said this was something you were prepared to lose... though maybe not so soon.

[mahjongguy]

I spend 100% of my time around people who were not born into "polite society". I hear them refer to me as "the farang" and I don't mind a bit. It's just shorthand for "that tall bearded guy over there". Nothing wrong with economy in speech.

But when I hear my b/f refer to me that way in the company of people who know me, I get pissed. Maybe the security guard, the neighbor lady, his aunt. Yesterday I sat him down and told him I have a name, they know my name, and to call me farang in that situation demoted me from person to object.

He understood, especially when I said otherwise I would forget his name and just refer to him as "e dom" (darkie) from now on.

The Thais have been calling us "farang" for centuries now and they're not about to change. I guess you can write a letter to the Bangkok Post and complain but since nothing's changed in 400 years I doubt it'll have much effect.

And we can complain about "political correctness" all we want but they're not working off the same page.

When I was last in ladyboyfriend's village I was sitting on the porch reading and noticed in the distance, behind a tree, a young mother holding her toddler pointing and saying (what I assume to be) "look, look over there at the Farang..." as if I was some kind of exotic zebra or giraffe.

I just smiled and waved... :hello2:

As Buddha says, others can't make you unhappy. You choose to make yourself unhappy because of their behavior.

(well, maybe Buddha didn't say that, maybe it was Confucius. Or maybe it's just me making it up..... :dontknow: )

[topjohn5]

I spend 100% of my time around people who were not born into "polite society". I hear them refer to me as "the farang" and I don't mind a bit. It's just shorthand for "that tall bearded guy over there". Nothing wrong with economy in speech.

But when I hear my b/f refer to me that way in the company of people who know me, I get pissed. Maybe the security guard, the neighbor lady, his aunt. Yesterday I sat him down and told him I have a name, they know my name, and to call me farang in that situation demoted me from person to object.

He understood, especially when I said otherwise I would forget his name and just refer to him as "e dom" (darkie) from now on.

I'm was not really bothered by it when I was there. I'm sure I would be if it was spoken by a bf or someone I got to know well......not sure I would do it but I might if pushed just use a generic "the asian" or "the oriental" or better....."the mongoloid" to get a point accross. I actually love the last one since it is so odd sounding and has a couple of meanings, LOL. :alien:

[Beachlover]

Do they refer to Asian foreigners as "farang" as well? Or is there a different word for that?

Do they refer to Asian foreigners as "farang" as well? Or is there a different word for that?

"Farang" refers only to caucasians.

Asian foreigners are referred to usually as "khon jeen" (Chinese), "khon yip-pun" (Japanese), etc. I do not know of a single word that refers to all groups yet excludes Thais.

[Captain Swing]

Like others, I am only bothered by the term when it's used by my BF to refer to me in the third person when speaking to his family members, who should know my name by now. But Smiles, I have to wonder if you might have misinterpreted the situation in your bus-ride story. It seems to me that perhaps the assistant driver didn't care that you changed seats, but was concerned that you hadn't reboarded the bus at all and were in danger of being left behind. You know: "Stupid farang. Piss too long. Miss bus." Not exactly complimentary, but evidence of a grudging concern for your welfare. If he didn't know you had a friend on board, he might have felt a certain obligation to look out for the no doubt feeble-minded and helpless foreigner. I doubt it entered his head that he might embarrass you.

[x in pattaya]

"WHERE FALANG? WHERE FALANG?" (Employing the more intimidating and dreaded 'L' pronunciation rather than the 'R')


Since he was obviously concerned about taking off without you, what more efficient way could he have gone about locating you?

Why would you feel intimidated by the use of "L" as opposed to "R?" ... or being called something that aptly described you?

If you were keen to be addressed otherwise, why didn't you strike up a converstaion with the young man, offer him your lap to sit in and tell him your name? Then when you went missing he'd have a greater arsenal of equally valid things to call you in order to track you down. I find that everyone I deal with who knows my name uses it when speaking to me or about me (at least in my presence). Some even use a term of respect that I don't intend to mention here for fear it will cause auntyinoz to spontaneously ejaculate.

Since countless farangs on this board (and undoubtedly elsewhere) have called you things far worse, why would you take umbrage at a Thai using a word that doesn't call into question your parentage, your mental capacity or your tendency to prissy Victorian attitudes?

Some people obviously are stretching to come up with aren't-they-just-so-inscrutable-and-exotic anecdotes.

In another thread where someone was looking for alternate modes of transport, Mr. Real Thailand advised:


Oh for fuck sake! Take the bus from Bangkok to Pattaya from Mor Chit or Ekamai Bus station. Cheap, air conned, reasonably comfortable. A bus to Shitsville leave every half hour or so. See the Real Thailand! :idea:

Apparently when Mr. Real Thailand tries to go native itтАЩs a close encounter of the uncomfortable kind.

posting.php?mode=quote&f=9&p=176053 (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/posting.php?mode=quote&f=9&p=176053)

[lo-so]

Captain Swing - That is how I interpreted the conductor's response. What other term could he so easily use and be so readily understood by the other Thai on board the bus?

Simply when being used by those not close to me I view it as a "short-hand" expression - if muttered by someone close then I will usually make some remark - it soon stops. I do not think it is rude but it really does not matter what we think or how long we stay in the country on that very last flight back home, be it in a coffin or otherwise, we will still be farang to the vast majority of Thai. So don't sweat it!!

[Dodger]

Kenc:


The Thais have been calling us "farang" for centuries now and they're not about to change. I guess you can write a letter to the Bangkok Post and complain but since nothing's changed in 400 years I doubt it'll have much effect.


It was discovered that the very first signs of agriculture on the planet Earth can be traced back directly to Thailand, of course they were using ancient farming methods, although,If you give them a tractor today they wil abandon those ancient farming methods in a heart beat and never look back.

I guess what I'm saying is, if we don't tell them or show them, they simply won't know.

Closing cultural communication gaps relies totally on mutual learning. Nothing can be accomplished if we view this as a one-way street.

[PeterUK]

I'll take 'falang' over 'papa' any day. Now there's a word that really has me gripping my zimmer frame in anger.

If your boyfriend and his friends and family call you farang while you are in thier company just imagine what the call you when you are not there

[catawampuscat]

I use the term farang (or even falang) myself and it is just the common Thai word for white Westerners.
I recall they have specific words for Koreans, Japanese, Chinese, Burmese, Lao and there is a general term for Asians.

Kon Thai or Thai people translates as Free People and Thailand as land of the free.
Maybe something to do with not being colonized by the white imperialists and managing to stay independent.
The French were among the first Europeans in Indo-China and they are referred to as Farangsei or something
approximatley that and this might be the derivation of the term farang.

Lots of Thai people have problems pronouncing Western names and most have no interest in your name..
It is not an insult, just their customary way of referring to Westerners including the Ozzies and Kiwis.. :cat:

And I agree with PeterUK about not being called Papa.. I recall one of the 'farangs' getting very pissed off about being called Papa.
He was the oldest in a group of farangs and was peeved to be singled out as Papa. It was probably an honorific as the Thais
respect older people in general and that is one of the reasons it works so well for so many of us.. This same
Papa farang had his face lifted and I recall one boy asking why he did that, since he was old already.. :silent:

I use the term farang (or even falang) myself and it is just the common Thai word for white Westerners.
I recall they have specific words for Koreans, Japanese, Chinese, Burmese, Lao and there is a general term for Asians.



Well...duh? "Khon Kaolee", "Khon Yippun", "Khon Jeen", "Khon Phamaa", "Khon Lao", and "Khon Asia".[/quote]


Kon Thai or Thai people translates as Free People and Thailand as land of the free.


Balderdash.

"Thai" or р╣Др╕Чр╕в is simply the name of the ethnic group which is considered the original Thai people. It is a different word from р╣Др╕Ч, pronounced the same way, which means "free".

I use the term farang (or even falang) myself and it is just the common Thai word for white Westerners.

Well, at least you and several others got that bit right and we agree on something (even if, as BB pointed out, the rest of your post was rubbish!).

The only thing I find stranger than Smiles' bus driver speaking English to his fellow Thais ("Where falang? Where falang?") is why so much offence is taken by so many over a word that literally, symbolically and figuratively means Caucasian. Nothing more and nothing less.

What, under the circumstances, would you have preferred him to say, Smiles?

Something along the lines (in Thai!) of "Excuse me, my fellow Thai citizens and those from other nations and any illegal immigrants who honour us with their gracious presence on this humble mode of transport, has anyone seen the old man with the limp wrist, mincing walk, arthritic shoulder, perspiring posterior, vacant expression, clothes from Oxfam, prison pallor and skin colouring equivalent to approximately 3.875 on the Max Factor scale, who was previously occupying this seat and who was the only one on the bus of apparent caucasian extraction?".

What a load of utter, politically correct drivel. Abusus non tollit usum. Fac ut vivas

[Impulse]

I use the term farang (or even falang) myself and it is just the common Thai word for white Westerners.

Well, at least you and several others got that bit right and we agree on something (even if, as BB pointed out, the rest of your post was rubbish!).

The only thing I find stranger than Smiles' bus driver speaking English to his fellow Thais ("Where falang? Where falang?") is why so much offence is taken by so many over a word that literally, symbolically and figuratively means Caucasian. Nothing more and nothing less.

What, under the circumstances, would you have preferred him to say, Smiles?

Something along the lines (in Thai!) of "Excuse me, my fellow Thai citizens and those from other nations and any illegal immigrants who honour us with their gracious presence on this humble mode of transport, has anyone seen the old man with the limp wrist, mincing walk, arthritic shoulder, perspiring posterior, vacant expression, clothes from Oxfam, prison pallor and skin colouring equivalent to approximately 3.875 on the Max Factor scale, who was previously occupying this seat and who was the only one on the bus of apparent caucasian extraction?".

What a load of utter, politically correct drivel. Abusus non tollit usum. Fac ut vivas Very funny post GF. My thai workers had quite a laugh when they came to get their money and saw me wearing around my neck a couple of those large dried seeds with a cork filling the opening.I forget what they are called,rural thais use them to store things in them,theyre very light wieght. The electrician was pointing at me and laughing saying "Farang "something or other. I could care less that they call me falang as long as they do their job well. And if farang is such a bad word I dont think they would have called me it just before I paid them.

[cdnmatt]

I don't personally mind at all. It's the same as me in Canada saying a black guy is a black guy. It's not meant as an insult, but just because there aren't many black people around, it's an easy way to describe them. Same as when the situation warrants, I'll say "that white guy".

Like others have said though, when I know them on a more personal basis, I don't appreciate being called "farang". That's the same as me introducing a friend of mine to a group of people in Canada, and saying, "Oh, and meet the asian guy". Obviously, that's pretty rude.

Not to mention, if they're not allowed to identify me as "farang", then I'm not allowed to identify them as "asian" in Canada. Goes both ways. You can't tell me that when you're sitting around with a group of white people in your home country, and the topic of asians come up, there isn't a slight negative cannotation towards the people from Asia (usually gang violence, or illegal immigration). Exact same goes for "farang", except the tables are turned. After all, we are guests in their country.

[Bob]

Some good examples of "western" thinking going on here.

I've never felt/believed that the general use of "falang/farang" (whichever spelling or pronunciation floats your boat) by Thais is pejorative in any sense. Many times I think it's actually meant as a term of status or respect.

[Impulse]

When Im sitting around with white people and the word "asian" comes up,I dont think of gangs or illegal immigration,My mind goes straight to thinking of Tom Yums go go bar,and how I wish I were there. But before going to Thailand I might have thought of a smart software developer,or a bright math student.

When Im sitting around with white people and the word "asian" comes up,I dont think of gangs or illegal immigration,My mind goes straight to thinking of Tom Yums go go bar,and how I wish I were there. But before going to Thailand I might have thought of a smart software developer,or a bright math student.

Your Such A Saint..........Bless You.......You will go down in the anus of history with the other saints.

[cdnmatt]

But before going to Thailand I might have thought of a smart software developer,or a bright math student.

Well, great to hear! But many times in Canada I've heard neat things like, "Fucken Asians, coming into our country and causing all these problems! We should just deport them all!". Or, "If they want to live here, they should be required to speak god damn English! It's our country!". Then you hear various other good hearted "us" vs. "them" statements like, "Oh yeah, those people make good computers", or, "yeah, those people make good doctors".

Then we get all pissy when someone characterizes us and sets the "us" vs "them" tone with a certain word like "farang". Again, what can you expect? It goes both ways.

Take someone from Khon Kaen or Udon Thani, and send them over to small town Alberta, Canada for a bit, and see how equally he gets treated. Guaranteed I'd get treated way better in Kohn Kaen, then he'd get treated in Red Deer, Alberta.

Empathy is a marvelous thing, isn't it?

But before going to Thailand I might have thought of a smart software developer,or a bright math student.

Well, great to hear! But many times in Canada I've heard neat things like, "Fucken Asians, coming into our country and causing all these problems! We should just deport them all!". Or, "If they want to live here, they should be required to speak god damn English! It's our country!". Then you hear various other good hearted "us" vs. "them" statements like, "Oh yeah, those people make good computers", or, "yeah, those people make good doctors".

Then we get all pissy when someone characterizes us and sets the "us" vs "them" tone with a certain word like "farang". Again, what can you expect? It goes both ways.

Take someone from Khon Kaen or Udon Thani, and send them over to small town Alberta, Canada for a bit, and see how equally he gets treated. Guaranteed I'd get treated way better in Kohn Kaen, then he'd get treated in Fox Creek, Alberta.


Nice little rant dear but do watch your blood presure

I am not offended by it at all. As Eleanor Roosevelt put it, "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." And, I find that those who do take umbrage at such expressions are often professional victims looking for something to whine about. I recall one delegate from one of the three U.S. political conventions in 1992 complaining because Negroes in America were calling themselves African-Americans. Her contention was that American should come first, revealing not only her social ignorance but her lack of a fourth grade English grammar education.
It's only a word!And, on a per capita basis, it is probably used more by Falang/Farang than Thais. Besides, when I got a sweet Thai boy facing away from me with his pants around his ankles and bent over a chair, he can call me anything he likes. I'll be too distracted to care.

[Khor tose]

Besides, when I got a sweet Thai boy facing away from me with his pants around his ankles and bent over a chair, he can call me anything he likes. I'll be too distracted to care.

In that case, I would want him to call me bwana. :sunny:

[quote="Smiles"]Ever felt mildly bothered about being called a 'farang' by Thais? Do you think it's use is demeaning to white foreigners? Are you not at all upset by it?


Would it really be much of an alternative being legally correctly called тАЬAlienтАЭ ?. I am truly not convinced about that.

You should be happy probably not to know what the former and now exiled PM used to call foreigners in Thailand. And I will not tell you more otherwise I most likely will get complain about using an inappropriate language.

:study:

You should be happy probably not to know what the former and now exiled PM used to call foreigners in Thailand.

Enlighten us, please. When I met Thaksin, he called me "Khun XXX".

You should be happy probably not to know what the former and now exiled PM used to call foreigners in Thailand.

Enlighten us, please. When I met Thaksin, he called me "Khun XXX".

Sure, an he smiled at you too.

Sure, an he smiled at you too.

Yes, as a matter of fact he did. And shook my hand.

This was many years before he entered politics, though.

Sure, an he smiled at you too.

Yes, as a matter of fact he did. And shook my hand.

This was many years before he entered politics, though.

So was it before or after he let you out of the hoosgow..... :cheers:

Kenc:


The Thais have been calling us "farang" for centuries now and they're not about to change. I guess you can write a letter to the Bangkok Post and complain but since nothing's changed in 400 years I doubt it'll have much effect.


It was discovered that the very first signs of agriculture on the planet Earth can be traced back directly to Thailand, of course they were using ancient farming methods, although,If you give them a tractor today they wil abandon those ancient farming methods in a heart beat and never look back.

I guess what I'm saying is, if we don't tell them or show them, they simply won't know.

Closing cultural communication gaps relies totally on mutual learning. Nothing can be accomplished if we view this as a one-way street.

But I would bet as soon as you were out of earshot they went right back to refering to you as "farang". So they told you what you wanted to hear and went about their business as usual when you were gone. It's a phenomena I call "Setting Yourself Up to get Lied to".

One has to be careful of being tempted to think we have all the answers and the little brown people need all the solutions. After all, it's not yet clear if the 300yr old American Civilization is going to outlive the 800 year old Thai Civilization.


And I'd also point out that poor farmfolk are the most conservative people in any society and the least likely to change their ways. I would doubt that one would hear the "farang, farang" kind of thing with middleclass city folk, and the upperclasses are mostly western educated and know better.

Sure, an he smiled at you too.

Yes, as a matter of fact he did. And shook my hand.

This was many years before he entered politics, though.


I needed to sue Meaw respectively Shin Telecom twice and he lost both cases.

Since 1992 weтАЩve seen each other frequently i.e. at the Queen Sirikit Convention Centre and other occasions and wanted to buy something from me. I needed to decline his offer twice and he seams obviously not to be very much amused.

We meet later on several occasions and he let me know that he was not my friend. This didnтАЩt bother me at all since he was never ever one of mine. I simply ignored him later quite openly тАЬby accidentтАЭ and I did well. I am still here.

Sure, an he smiled at you too.

Yes, as a matter of fact he did. And shook my hand.

This was many years before he entered politics, though.

So was it before or after he let you out of the hoosgow..... :cheers:

That's quite hilarious. What's it supposed to mean?

[Beachlover]

Sure, an he smiled at you too.

Yes, as a matter of fact he did. And shook my hand.

This was many years before he entered politics, though.

I'm not sure that always means much. The other day, I met a client who I think is an absolute dickhead to discuss (sell) some new work. I too, smiled and shook his hand LOL.

I recall one delegate from one of the three U.S. political conventions in 1992 complaining because Negroes in America were calling themselves African-Americans. Her contention was that American should come first, revealing not only her social ignorance but her lack of a fourth grade English grammar education.

I would have thought it would reveal an over-active imagination on her part, as well as the "African-Americans". The only people who should correctly be called African-Americans are those with at least one "African" parent (ie the holder of an "African" passport), for example BO; many labelled African Americans have no African ancestry at all and hail from the Caribbean. If "black" was good enough for Martin Luther King it should be good enough for Oprah et al.

Anything can be made to sound insulting, in the right circumstances, just as it can be made to sound complimentary.

Where do you think the blacks in the Caribbean came from?

[Bob]

The only people who should correctly be called African-Americans are those with at least one "African" parent (ie the holder of an "African" passport), for example BO; many labelled African Americans have no African ancestry at all and hail from the Caribbean.

Just read this to a couple of black friends here over dinner and they thought it was pretty funny (especially when they heard that some white dude in Thailand wrote it). No, they say they take no offense (at least in mid-west USA) to the term African-American. They're fine with "black American" too. And they asked me to mention that they'd prefer just plain old "American." They also wondered if you were often described or introduced as that "honkey or white American?"

As to the astute observation that "many labelled African Americans have no African ancestry at all and hail from the Caribbean", where do you think that the Carribean islanders came from, Finnland?

[giggsy]

It is weird.In America you call them Blacks but it would be a no no in britain as the afro's over here want to be called coloured.But in America what would an afro amercan say if you called him coloured? All very confusing.

[giggsy]

Do they have tribute acts in America to "Al Jolson" ? There is one in Benidorm in Spain working 7 nights a week and goes down very well. After a few drinks of course.

[Bob]

But in America what would an afro amercan say if you called him coloured?

He'd typically be rather offended as that's a term from the old (Jim Crow) days.

It seems a bit odd to me that anybody feels the need for any designation (of skin color or historical origin) when referring to other people. We never refer to somebody as a Wales-Englishman or a white-Englishman, do we? Just an Englishman will do fine.

We never refer to somebody as a Wales-Englishman or a white-Englishman, do we?Speaking as a Welshman I find that offensive. Besides, if you watch a British police soap opera such as "The Bill" you will see that people are routinely identifed by the colour of their skin, IC1 being Caucasian etc. http://www.tilehurst.net/infopool/ic.html :rr:

[giggsy]

Wales and England are 2 different county's.I as you might know have played for both.England for the under eighteens and the rest of my inter-national career for Wales.There is nothing like standing for the welsh national anthem just before an home international and all of the crowd at the Millennium Stadium stand and sing
"WALES, WALES, BLOODY BIG FISH ARE WALES".

Wales and England are 2 different county's.I as you might know have played for both.England for the under eighteens and the rest of my inter-national career for Wales.There is nothing like standing for the welsh national anthem just before an home international and all of the crowd at the Millennium Stadium stand and sing
"WALES, WALES, BLOODY BIG FISH ARE WALES".

They make the Irish look look like Ph.D's

[giggsy]

We never refer to somebody as a Wales-Englishman or a white-Englishman, do we?Speaking as a Welshman I find that offensive. Besides, if you watch a British police soap opera such as "The Bill" you will see that people are routinely identifed by the colour of their skin, IC1 being Caucasian etc. http://www.tilehurst.net/infopool/ic.html :rr:
IC1 White European IC2 Dark European
IC3 Afro-Caribbean IC4 Asian
IC5 Oriental IC6 Arab

So are people from thailand "IC5 Orientals" or "IC4 asians" ?

[Bob]

So are people from thailand Orientals or asians ?

Hmmm.....I'd guess people from Thailand are Thais! Simple enough, isn't it?

So are people from thailand Orientals or asians ?

Hmmm.....I'd guess people from Thailand are Thais! Simple enough, isn't it?

Not really...if you are aware that Thailand is a multi-cultural and multi-racial society. Perhaps you don't, though.

[Brad the Impala]

; many labelled African Americans have no African ancestry at all and hail from the Caribbean.


Surely one of the most bizarre assertions ever made on this forum!

The only people who should correctly be called African-Americans are those with at least one "African" parent (ie the holder of an "African" passport), for example BO; many labelled African Americans have no African ancestry at all and hail from the Caribbean.

Just read this to a couple of black friends here over dinner and they thought it was pretty funny (especially when they heard that some white dude in Thailand wrote it). No, they say they take no offense (at least in mid-west USA) to the term African-American. They're fine with "black American" too. And they asked me to mention that they'd prefer just plain old "American." They also wondered if you were often described or introduced as that "honkey or white American?"

As to the astute observation that "many labelled African Americans have no African ancestry at all and hail from the Caribbean", where do you think that the Carribean islanders came from, Finnland?

Just how far back do you and BB want to trace ancestry? 500 years, to include the 750,000 "native Americans"? Why not go a bit further, and call us all "Africans" as apparently that's where we all originated! Most of those from the Caribbean who I know would be far from pleased to be called "Africans".

And no, I have never been introduced as a "honkey or white American" (I am not an American, and it would be pretty obvious to most people meeting me that I am white!) but I am sure that when working abroad I was regularly described as "white". I only overheard it once, when one Baluch pointed me out to another, but as I was often the only white man around it would have been perfectly normal and far more acceptable than most other descriptions. Why not?


Wales and England are 2 different county's

Really? I always thought they were two different countries.

Caribbean blacks are just as African as American blacks. Their ancestors were brought from Africa at around the same time. Your claim that they have "no African ancestry whatsoever" goes up there in the ranks of the dumbest things ever said on this board. Congratulations.

[Bob]

And no, I have never been introduced as a "honkey or white American" (I am not an American, and it would be pretty obvious to most people meeting me that I am white!)..

Presumed you were American but apparently not (I generally don't keep track of such things).

Yes, no need to describe or introduce you as a "white" whatever as, as you say, it's "pretty obvious." Unless one is describing or introducing persons of black skin color to blind people, what would be the point or motivation of adding the adjectives (African or black)? If somebody described or introduced me as a "white American", I'd too probably wonder why that was said.

No big deal, just food for thought.

"White American" is not a common phrase because it is meaningless.

You do, however, find Italian-Americans, Polish-Americans, Jewish-Americans, Greek-Americans, etc., etc...

So are people from thailand "IC5 Orientals" or "IC4 asians" ?IC4 are "Asians" from the Indian sub-continent i.e. people most of us would call Indians or Pakistanis. Having spent some time in India I can tell you that the taste of an unwashed Indian foreskin is quite different from its Oriental (i.e. Chinese, Japanese, Thai etc.) equivalent.

In 25 years of sucking Thai dick, I'm not sure I have ever encountered an unwashed one.

[allieb]

In 25 years of sucking Thai dick, I'm not sure I have ever encountered an unwashed one.

Encountered!!!! Don't you mean noticed? 6 strokes of the cane for the cocksucker

Cocksucker, what a great new name for you.

Cocksucker, what a great new name for you.

You might find it more effective to find a nickname that doesn't apply to every single member here.

..... in the ranks of the dumbest things ever said on this board. Congratulations.

My point was that, in my own experience, that is not the view of those from the Caribbean who move to America or elsewhere who consider themselves of Jamaican/Bermudan, etc, descent and origin and definitely not "African", which is not only understandable but correct as they have not gone directly from Africa to America.

The comment that "Caribbean blacks are just as African as American blacks" is no more accurate (or any less "dumb") than describing someone who had an ancestor who came to Britain with the Normans and who recently moved to America as a "French-American".

Just about as "dumb" as disagreeing with the view that "people from Thailand are Thais" or claiming that Thailand is a "multi-racial society", which it very clearly is not either in comparison with any other recognisable "multi-racial society" or according to the procedure for granting Thai citizenship to those without a Thai parent.

[Khor tose]

Cocksucker, what a great new name for you.

You might find it more effective to find a nickname that doesn't apply to every single member here.

You need to improve your English vocabulary. There are two definitions of the word. I will let you guess which one is meant for you.

1. a person who performs fellatio
2. asshole: insulting terms of address for people who are stupid or irritating or ridiculous

wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

[quote=allieb]

Cocksucker, what a great new name for you.

You might find it more effective to find a nickname that doesn't apply to every single member here.

You need to improve your English vocabulary. There are two definitions of the word. I will let you guess which one is meant for you.

1. a person who performs fellatio
2. asshole: insulting terms of address for people who are stupid or irritating or ridiculous

wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn[/quote:39ed5xa8]

My original comment applies equally to both definitions.

[Khor tose]

[quote="Khor tose":jrf1jpr5][quote="Beach Bunny":jrf1jpr5]

You might find it more effective to find a nickname that doesn't apply to every single member here.
You need to improve your English vocabulary. There are two definitions of the word. I will let you guess which one is meant for you.
1. a person who performs fellatio
2. asshole: insulting terms of address for people who are stupid or irritating or ridiculous
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn[/quote:jrf1jpr5]
My original comment applies equally to both definitions.[/quote:jrf1jpr5]

Thank you, you have given me an idea for a topic.

[lo-so]

BB- it is somewhat akin to ordering a speciality from certain restarants that require 24 hours notice.

I finally got a long term chap to so accommodate my taste needs (insists on showering but with a holy abstention of soap around the glands) but now rather to my chagrin I have, as it were. bitten off more that I can chew.

Chacun ├а son go├╗t

[Brad the Impala]

[quote="Beach Dummy":3b96clwe]..... in the ranks of the dumbest things ever said on this board. Congratulations.

My point was that, in my own experience, that is not the view of those from the Caribbean who move to America or elsewhere who consider themselves of Jamaican/Bermudan, etc, descent and origin and definitely not "African", which is not only understandable but correct as they have not gone directly from Africa to America.
[/quote:3b96clwe]

So if you have not travelled "directly" you lose your original "ancestry"?! Like the refugees who travel north through Africa, hoping to reach Europe, do they take on the "ancestry" of the countries where they stop and work to gain funds for the next stage of their journey?! Even many of the Pilgrim Fathers did not travel "directly" to America, but via Holland, does that make them no longer of British "ancestry"?

In any case"ancestry" is not a question of self perception, even from your large sample of personal acquaintances, but a matter of genetic and historical facts. If your ancestors have lived in Africa for a thousand years, and you and your parents live in another country for twenty, or even a hundred, years, it doesn't change your "ancestry."

You need a bigger shovel.

[quote=allieb]

Cocksucker, what a great new name for you.

You might find it more effective to find a nickname that doesn't apply to every single member here.

You need to improve your English vocabulary. There are two definitions of the word. I will let you guess which one is meant for you.

1. a person who performs fellatio
2. asshole: insulting terms of address for people who are stupid or irritating or ridiculous

wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn[/quote:37i0un0w]

I think you will find that is American vocabulary and not English. English use the term ARSEHOLE you ARSEHOLE :salute: :salute: :salute:

In 25 years of sucking Thai dick, I'm not sure I have ever encountered an unwashed one.Perhaps you -
a don't get out much
b don't try hard enough