Buying a house ?

[thrillbill]

Getting tired of paying for rent though I get a housing allowance with my current job contract. For value of money, buying a house is better than buying a condo. Since I do not want to spend more than 1-2 million baht may use it as a rental someday...), I would get more square meters of living space for my baht by purchasing a small villa. I realize that foreigners CANNOT own houses but can own condos. --But I have run into gays (in Pattaya) that do own a house... So how is that done? I realize I could put the house under my Thai BF's name but I don't feel 100% secure about that since I know about my past romances that have turned sour... So, is there a way to "purchase" a house in Thailand? (sorry, I don't wish to marry a Thai woman and put it under her name!!! -lol :idea: )

Getting tired of paying for rent though I get a housing allowance with my current job contract. For value of money, buying a house is better than buying a condo. Since I do not want to spend more than 1-2 million baht may use it as a rental someday...), I would get more square meters of living space for my baht by purchasing a small villa. I realize that foreigners CANNOT own houses but can own condos. --But I have run into gays (in Pattaya) that do own a house... So how is that done? I realize I could put the house under my Thai BF's name but I don't feel 100% secure about that since I know about my past romances that have turned sour... So, is there a way to "purchase" a house in Thailand? (sorry, I don't wish to marry a Thai woman and put it under her name!!! -lol :idea: )


The laws can change day by day, keep your money at home and rent.

[Bob]

As I understand it, falang generally do it one of two ways: (1) They do the corporation trick - where a Thai corporation actually buys the land, the falang can own 49% of the shares, and the other 51% are held by Thais who the lawyer has sign contracts that they'll transfer the shares to whoever the falang designates should the falang decide to require it; or (2) They buy in a Thai's name and then take a lease back in the falang's name for 30 years (although I've read recently that you can do a 50-year lease back). Some claim the corporation trick is actually illegal and you run the risk of the Thai authorities clamping down on it some day in the future.

As I understand it, there's also some type of okay for a falang to buy land or a house if he's invested a chunk of money in Thailand (the figure may be 5 million baht).

Whatever you do, use a good Thai lawyer to make sure it's done right. For example, I've read that the 30-year leaseback deal could be dicey unless you register the lease.

The ThaiVisa forum might have better or more complete answers for you.

As I understand it, there's also some type of okay for a falang to buy land or a house if he's invested a chunk of money in Thailand (the figure may be 5 million baht).

I think that figure is 40 million baht

[mahjongguy]

I think that figure is 40 million baht

Yup. Otherwise everything said above is quite true.

I've done it, via the legal lease method, and I'm glad I did. But it's not for everyone, because in exchange for a free place to live for 30 years you are giving up your investment. You could rent the place out but you cannot sell it without extreme cooperation from the Thai whose name is on the title. The lease is non-transferable and expires upon your demise.

[latintopxxx]

Not wanting to come across as miss bitchy money bags...what on earth can you buy for 1 to 2 million baht in Bangkok? 2 million is only 40 000 euro, and you want to buy a villa? Where? next to a petrol station opposite the main airport runway an hours drive from civilization?
I visit Bangkok on a regular basis (4 to 5 times/year), I know its cheap....but from ads and billboards it seems that anything "decent" would be at least 3 times your maximum figure.

Lastly, strange that foreigners cannot own land/property in Thailand, afterall thais are free to purchase in mine....is there a reason for this anomoly?

Lastly, strange that foreigners cannot own land/property in Thailand, afterall thais are free to purchase in mine....is there a reason for this anomoly?

You will find that it is common in a large percentage of undeveloped/developing countries to limit land ownership to locals. Basically, they are trying not to prevent their most valuable asset -- land -- from falling into the hands of foreigners in disproportionate amounts.

There are very few places in Asia where foreigners can own land.

[Wazza]

Don't...

Its illegal and any amount of Thai company formations, straw partners cum directors does not change that.

[mahjongguy]

"...you want to buy a villa? Where? next to a petrol station opposite the main airport runway an hours drive from civilization?"

I agree. Bangkok is the kind of place where you should live right in the thick of it, or far far away.

That's why, when I tired of apartment life, I moved on to Jomtien. Here you can have a house in a location that is convenient, though having a car is supremely helpful.

I will say one thing in defense of those like myself who take the plunge (legally, with a 30-year lease): there's no substitute for being able to have a house the way you want it. Rental houses in Thailand are uniformly furnished in the ugliest and cheapest manner. Pick an estate agent's website and scroll through the listings. It's ghastly what you'll see. Electric blue drapes and red plush wallpaper. Bathrooms with 7 varieties of tile in some eyeball-spinning pattern. Visit the offerings and check out the aircon units that rattle and grind. Half-sized refrigerators. Cruel mattresses and clogged drains. How many of these blights and annoyances will you be willing to correct with your own money when you're just a renter?

You will find that it is common in a large percentage of undeveloped/developing countries to limit land ownership to locals. Basically, they are trying not to prevent their most valuable asset -- land -- from falling into the hands of foreigners in disproportionate amounts.

There are very few places in Asia where foreigners can own land.

Including Australia.

Concerning House purchase, buying is the easy bit. Consider how you are going to sell if you need/want to.

[latintopxxx]

Justin, I beg to differ, don't think Australia is in the same category, I'm a resident there and in New Zealand and have'nt had problems buying residential property in either country. In fact you often see full page ads geared towards small investors in the Singapore and Hong Kong papers advertising residential property in both countries which would indicate a lack of barriers.
But anyway, this is totally off the original subject...

Not entirely true about Singapore and Hong Kong. There are still lots of restrictions. In Singapore, a foreigner has to apply for and receive permission from the government in order to buy land, though I'm not sure how difficult that is.

In Hong Kong, I understand most of the land -- even if you could afford it (which you can't) -- is lease-hold (50-year lease) from the government.

[quiet1]

There is also the option of usufructs:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Wanted-Usufruct-Agreements-Th-t171307.html

[Beachlover]

In Australia when apartments sold off the plan, a certain percentage of them can be sold to foreigners.

[Beachlover]

Not entirely true about Singapore and Hong Kong. There are still lots of restrictions. In Singapore, a foreigner has to apply for and receive permission from the government in order to buy land, though I'm not sure how difficult that is.

In Hong Kong, I understand most of the land -- even if you could afford it (which you can't) -- is lease-hold (50-year lease) from the government.

In Singapore, I think you can apply to buy land in certain circumstances, like if you are marrying a Singaporean girl and plan to start a family etc.

There is also the option of usufructs

I love it when you talk dirty.

Not quite true, mahjongguy:


As I understand it, falang generally do it one of two ways: (1) They do the corporation trick - where a Thai corporation actually buys the land, the falang can own 49% of the shares, and the other 51% are held by Thais who the lawyer has sign contracts that they'll transfer the shares to whoever the falang designates should the falang decide to require it...

39% is the current recommended amount. Any newly registered Thai companies with 49% farang ownership are automatically checked for validity, land ownership, etc; any companies already registered with 49% farang ownership are liable for routine investigation and most lawyers recommend reducing the farang share to 39%. All and any Thai shareholders can, if required, be called upon to prove that they actually purchased the shares (and to show that they had the money to purchase the shares).

The pre-signed contracts are technically invalid and the shareholders are legally entitled to their "share" of any money from the rental or sale of the property.


... or (2) They buy in a Thai's name and then take a lease back in the falang's name for 30 years (although I've read recently that you can do a 50-year lease back). Some claim the corporation trick is actually illegal and you run the risk of the Thai authorities clamping down on it some day in the future..... I've read that the 30-year leaseback deal could be dicey unless you register the lease.

30 years.

Technically the Thai company method is 100% illegal, unless the Thai shareholders are genuine and you (the farang) are not the sole director.

The 30 year lease is not just "dicey" if it is not registered - it is meaningless; if the owner sells the land any non-registered lease is cancelled automatically. Registration is simple and there is no reason (apart from utter stupidity or illegal entry/residence) why anyone would not register a lease.


You could rent the place out ....

Technically, also only with the owner's permission.

In Hong Kong, I understand most of the land -- even if you could afford it (which you can't) -- is lease-hold (50-year lease) from the government.

But that restriction applies equally to local HKers. It not a special device to discriminate against foreigners like the laws in Thailand. It's a remnant aretfact of the transfer of power at 1997.

[Impulse]

In Hong Kong, I understand most of the land -- even if you could afford it (which you can't) -- is lease-hold (50-year lease) from the government. Dont think I can afford it? The gold to silver ratio is about 60 to 1 right now.Throughout history its averaged 15 to 1.And before bull markets in precious metals end,silver soars. So if silver,now about $14 per ounce,goes to over $150 an ounce,my penny mining stocks on the Spokane stock exchange will make me filthy rich.And if not,Ill be part owner of some of the finest moose pastures in the world.

[mahjongguy]

"Registration is simple and there is no reason (apart from utter stupidity or illegal entry/residence) why anyone would not register a lease."

Yes, it would be amazingly dumb but there are naive/shortsighted people who don't want to pay the required upfront tax on 30 years of the stated rent.


You could rent the place out ....

"Technically, also only with the owner's permission."

Are you very sure of that? Not according to my lawyer. True, the lease cannot be transferred without permission, but there's nothing stopping you from sub-letting.

I've pondered this too.
In Thailand the problem with buying a house (aside from all the rediculous hurdles) is trying to sell it later. At least with a condo the market is easier to sell into.

Personally, during the present economic situation, I'd rather rent than own. The price appreciation in real estate is just not there to justify putting your capital into it.
Heck, my stock investments are up over 40% so far this year.
Real Estate? Deep Doo Doo.

But.....
For the future, assuming I will retire in another 10 years, I'm coming around to thinking a townhouse (like those in Chateau Dale) is the way to go. I mean, how do you want to live out your retirement? In a small apartment or a nice small house with a pool where you can have parties with all your Sawatee friends every Fri night?
And in the end, ladyboyfriend gets the house, right?

An "investment" for different reasons.

Investment up 40% this year, what are you a drug dealer or a pimp?

[thrillbill]

---THANKS for all the opinions and advice. The housing area I have been looking at is in the Jomtien area (not BKK) and one can get a two bedroom house for under 2K and it is in a "farang" neighborhood. No, I don't want to invest a lot in a condo or villa right now. It seems that the prices in the housing/condo market should be going down since the world economy is at a stand still and therre is (in my opinion) an over flow of newly built apartment towers and villa neighborhoods in the Pattaya area , but it doesn't seem to work that way here.

---THANKS for all the opinions and advice. The housing area I have been looking at is in the Jomtien area (not BKK) and one can get a two bedroom house for under 2K and it is in a "farang" neighborhood. No, I don't want to invest a lot in a condo or villa right now. It seems that the prices in the housing/condo market should be going down since the world economy is at a stand still and therre is (in my opinion) an over flow of newly built apartment towers and villa neighborhoods in the Pattaya area , but it doesn't seem to work that way here.

A 2 bedroom house for under 2K (2,000) ! What currency are we talking here, GOLD PRESSED LATINUM?????? :salute: :salute: :salute: :salute:

Moving across the world to live in a "farang" neighborhood...whatever floats your boat, buddy.

[latintopxxx]

andyinoz...the world does not end once you depart "white western" shores...I've invested in the Chinese stock market, directly and through 3rd parties and my investments are up 53% (stock market is up 80%) ...so 40% is possible...withoiut being a pimp or a drug dealer.....hello...

[mahjongguy]

"A 2 bedroom house for under 2K (2,000) ! What currency are we talking here, GOLD PRESSED LATINUM??????"

Let's assume it was a typo for 2M (2,000,000 baht).


"Moving across the world to live in a "farang" neighborhood...whatever floats your boat, buddy"

Probably what the OP was referring to when he mentioned "farang" neighborhood along with the price was that such moobans (housing development, village, neighborhood) are more likely to have a pool, a guard service, a sewer system, etc. I doubt that he was extolling the cultural virtues.

In our mooban roughly half of the 55 households are occupied by at least one farang, most often the husband of a Thai wife. So, a majority of the residents are Thai, the staff are Thai, the kids are half-Thai. It's a nice place to live, and by no means is it some bastion of farang-dom, a place to hide from the fact that this is Thailand, not at all. I think it's quite handy that a few neighbors speak English, but if your Thai is perfectly fluent then I suppose you wouldn't care about that.

andyinoz...the world does not end once you depart "white western" shores...I've invested in the Chinese stock market, directly and through 3rd parties and my investments are up 53% (stock market is up 80%) ...so 40% is possible...withoiut being a pimp or a drug dealer.....hello...


Wake up your dreaming. It's another fantasy like your sex life........

Justin, I beg to differ, don't think Australia is in the same category, I'm a resident there and in New Zealand and have'nt had problems buying residential property in either country. In fact you often see full page ads geared towards small investors in the Singapore and Hong Kong papers advertising residential property in both countries which would indicate a lack of barriers.
But anyway, this is totally off the original subject...

If you are legally resident you can buy property in Australia, but unless you are young and talented enough to qualify for residence under the points system or are rich enough to get a retirement visa (and we're talking VERY rich) or fall into a few other very restricted categries, you cannot become legally resident. Non residents can only buy property with prior permission from the Australian Government. This is granted to a percentage of the flats in some new developments, but is not granted for any second hand property, and I'm not aware of it being granted to new houses either.

Justin, I beg to differ, don't think Australia is in the same category, I'm a resident there and in New Zealand and have'nt had problems buying residential property in either country. In fact you often see full page ads geared towards small investors in the Singapore and Hong Kong papers advertising residential property in both countries which would indicate a lack of barriers.
But anyway, this is totally off the original subject...

If you are legally resident you can buy property in Australia, but unless you are young and talented enough to qualify for residence under the points system or are rich enough to get a retirement visa (and we're talking VERY rich) or fall into a few other very restricted categries, you cannot become legally resident. Non residents can only buy property with prior permission from the Australian Government. This is granted to a percentage of the flats in some new developments, but is not granted for any second hand property, and I'm not aware of it being granted to new houses either.

I'm thinking of selling 10 Downing Street any offers?????

You could rent the place out ....

"Technically, also only with the owner's permission."

Are you very sure of that? Not according to my lawyer. True, the lease cannot be transferred without permission, but there's nothing stopping you from sub-letting.

Unless permission to sub-let is specifically written into the registered contract, which would be unusual, you could find it very difficult - you could also find that this could make your lease invalid.

[ceejay]

I'm thinking of selling 10 Downing Street any offers?????
Good time to be buying it. I gather the sitting tenant is moving out shortly. :bounce: