Advice for long-term needed...

[cdnmatt]

Hey everyone,

Was wondering if some of you Thailand verterans would be willing to provide some advice. I've spent a total of say 10 months in Thailand, so I'm not new, but nonetheless. Back in Pattaya right now, and I've tried the long-term relationship thing a few times before, but it's just never worked out. Neither of us did anything wrong, and they treated me the same as I treated them, which is extremely well. They always took good care of me, but they always seen it as a job.

I met this new 19yo guy recently though, and out of all the boys I've met in Thailand, he's the only one I've ever actually liked. And I mean, LIKED. I don't know, just simply being around him makes me happy. :-) He's brand new to Pattaya though (which is probably why I like him so much -- hasn't been hardened by the bars yet), and I've been told I'm the only customer he's ever had. Whether or not that's true, I have no idea. I do know he's new to Pattaya though, because he can't speak a lick of English. The only words he knows right now are "yes", "no", and "good". That can be solved though, so no worries there.

And I know he likes me too, at least somewhat. He's genuinely gay, and genuinely attracted to me (for example, he won't even leave me alone when I'm trying to sleep, as he keeps molesting me). You know, hanging out at the karokee bar with some of his friends, and it's somewhat like we're actually together. I'm sure a good amount of that is just a show for my money, but don't think all of it is. I'm 27, look much younger, no Brad Pitt but fairly decent looking, nice guy, well composed, good hygiene, etc.

Anyway, sorry for rambling. So, I want him for long-term, but I'm a little unsure how this all works here. Do I just offer him to live with me, and offer to pay him say 500 baht per day (15,000/month)? I've been told the average go-go boy without customers makes 3000/month, so I think that's reasonable, no? Or is that too cheap? I don't need or want sex every night, have a really nice 1bdrm condo, he'll have his own key so he can come and go as he wants, if he wants I can get him an English tutor, and myself a Thai tutor, etc.

Right now I've been paying him 3000/baht per night, which obviously, I'm not going to keep doing. I don't mind taking care of him financially though. I'm no millionaire, but I make enough. Regardless, whatever he costs me for himself, his "family problems", English tutor, and whatever else, guaranteed it'll be far cheaper than my ex-husband, so I'm not complaining. :-)

I don't know, I just really enjoy being around him, and want him as part of my life for the next good while. I've heard lots of people having long-term relationships with boys here that last years, but have no idea how to evolve a one-night stand with a go-go boy into something more long-term. And I want something more than just him looking at me as a customer who he needs to take care of. Do I actually have to pay him X amount every month, forever? Or is there any chance of something more? You know, just say whenever you need some cash, let me know, kinda thing, and have more of an actual relationship with him?

Or I don't know, am I just still completely naive and clueless? :P Wow, what a long post! Sorry about that. Any advice though would be greatly appreciated, as I'm a bit in the dark about this.

Cheers guys!

[Dani69]

3000 a night wow a lot.I would have thought 3000 a week would be closer to the mark as long as you feed him and buy stuff etc.
But good luck ..

cdnmatt,

I think you're doing everything perfectly. You are a lucky dog indeed to have found someone so wonderful in Pattaya. Stay the course and don't be influenced by all the flak you are bound to get here one way or the other. :thumbright:

[francois]

3000, 4000, 5000 TB/week is a reasonable amount to pay him to get out of the bar business, depending on what provisions you are making for him regarding lodging. Of course there will be more expenditures such as a motorbike, cell phone and education. Be sure it is clear between he and you that he is not doing other farang, unless that is ok with you.

[cdnmatt]

Be sure it is clear between he and you that he is not doing other farang, unless that is ok with you.

Yeah, already thought about that. Will make sure to make it clear that if I ever see him working in a go-go bar, or with another farang, he'll never see me again. Simple as that. :) The rest is up to him.

Anyway, thanks for all the comments guys. They're appreciated!

[Khor tose]

This is one of the board's better moments. I think everyone has given you great advice. I would only add that while he is learning English you might consider learning Thai so can you be a bigger part of his life in Thailand.

[a447]

Or is there any chance of something more? You know, just say whenever you need some cash, let me know, kinda thing,

If you REALLY want to know how much he cares about you (as opposed to your bank balance), why don't you ask him
a)if you can have a relationship where money is not a factor i.e. you do not give him any money
or
b) ask him outright how much he wants and, most importantly, get him to justify the amount to you.


He's brand new to Pattaya though (which is probably why I like him so much -- hasn't been hardened by the bars yet), and I've been told I'm the only customer he's ever had.

I met a 19 year old in Bangkok who told me he had only just started working in the bar ( all the bar boys seem to say 3 months, for some reason) but it was obvious that he was VERY, VERY experienced and had been around the traps a lot longer than that. Although he may be new in Pattaya, where was he before that??


he won't even leave me alone when I'm trying to sleep, as he keeps molesting me

That in itself may be a good start. I wish you luck here. But I must admit that a number of guys have been insatiable in bed but they sure didn't love ME. It was something else they were after! 3000 baht a night is a lot and he now might see that as the benchmark and you may have trouble climbing down from that amount. If he puts up any argument when you tell him 3000 is unsustainable, you'll know where you stand with him.


have no idea how to evolve a one-night stand with a go-go boy into something more long-term.

That's where the money discussion has to take place. I also have no idea. If you find out, let me know! Keep a cool head in all of this.
All the best.

[Dodger]

cdnMatt,

The biggest road block in farang/Thai boy long term relationships is, without question, the age gap. and at your young age I think you have a great opportunity as long as you evaluate, and draw some real conclusions, regarding your expectations of the relationship.

I imagine your bf would be happy with a monthly income of 20-30,000 baht if living with you on a full-time basis, although going from your current tipping amount of 3,000 baht to 500 baht may be pushing it. One thing you need to consider is the fact that he is still a working boy, and doing so strickly for the money. If by chance he left the working boy circuit to reside with you full-time for the purose of cultivating a meaningful relationship, then the money part would have to be re-evaluated taking an approach which is mutually agreeable based on your expectations going forward.

Another factor you will need to consider is the off fee for the bar he works for. You should be able to negotiate a reasonable monthly off fee considering the current economic conditions, of 5,000 - 6,000 baht or so. Of course if the boy quit his job at the bar there would be no off fee to deal with, although I would never suggest this until you have spent sufficient time together to see if this makes sense. And frankly, I would suggest a period of 2 years minimum.

I'm not sure if you stated you were a full-time resident of LOS or not, because of course this throws another set of dynamics into play. If you are a vistor and take on the responsibilties of a full-time/long term relationship, you will have to send monthly payments to your bf for the obvious financial support. I imagine most boys would be satisfied with 8,000 - 12,000 bt.month, although there are no gaurantees that the money you are sending will be enough as time goes on. Most of us here (at least the honest ones) have been through this before and experienced the numerous things that pop up where extra cash is needed, e.g., water buffalo dies in the mud, grandmas in the hospital, motorbikes broken, etc. and these extra costs can add up.

Most importanly, is the fact that your age is definately in your favor. Like in any relationship, the element of time is critical where you both have the opportunity to get to truly know each other. In relationships with Thai boys, this element of "time" is a mandatory prerequisite. Regardless if he speaks English or not makes absolutely no difference in the big equation, asThai boys have an inherent sense of understanding how to make money on the working scene and are the best actors on the planet regardles of their language skliis. What they can't master with words - they will master with that body language which we all know too well.

Go for it - but be careful. Take a concious inventory of your short and long term expections and make sure you can afford it, as in Thai culture in general, without the money, the component of Love (as in our cultural definition) has no meaning.

mai pen rai

If you're giving the boy 3,000 baht a day - and, presumably, feeding him and buying him drinks as well, he's going to cling to you, literally and figuratively, for that reason alone. Such largese will make you glamorous in his eyes, on top of the purely economic factor. This doesn't mean he doesn't have any genuine feelings for you, but who can know - perhaps not even him. It's not a great place from which to start a long term relationship.

If you don't live in Thailand, I'd advise you to spoil him, enjoy his company, but make no promises of any kind. Not even to see him again. If you're in love, or think you are, you'll ignore this advice - and who knows, maybe it'll work out. If you do enter a real relationship, then it will not be a question of paying him, but supporting him (and to some extent, his family). If he expects a daily allowance which is more than pocket money, I'm afraid it's the folding stuff he loves, and not you.

I'ts really up to you how much you pay your PROSTITUTE and wether you call him your BOYFRIEND like a lot of the other posters do. But remember one thing, If you had no money he would be with someone else.

I'm not sure if you stated you were a full-time resident of LOS or not, because of course this throws another set of dynamics into play.

Dodger has not only given excellent advice, but raised the most important point - are you living here, in which case the "long-term" relationship you are after is at least possible, or are you here on holiday, in which case you may as well forget it? After all, unless you can speak a reasonable amount of Thai (which is also not clear) you know nothing about him whatsoever. For 3,000 baht a night, particularly at the moment, it would be quite a surprise if he was not all over you, 24 hours a day. Not only is he getting very well paid in comparison with most of his friends at the karaoke bar but he can also show off that he has got a young (apparently presentable) farang rather than a geriatric wrinkly, whom he is (apparently) topping. No wonder he's happy.

I can see the point being made by those saying stop paying him and then see if he still likes you - the problem is that, if you do, you are effectively (at least to him, however you phrase it) telling him to come and visit/service you for free but to go back to the bar to support himself or, if he can, find another job (with similar pay). Hardly a great way to start a relationship!

A few more details, such as whether you are living here, how long you have known him, what you know about him, etc, and you may get some decent personal advice - if not, it will just be generalisations (for and against).

Back in Pattaya right now, and I've tried the long-term relationship thing a few times before, but it's just never worked out. Neither of us did anything wrong, and they treated me the same as I treated them, which is extremely well. They always took good care of me, but they always seen it as a job.

....am I just still completely naive and clueless?

Short answer: Yes.

If, as the context of your post implies, your previous LTR attempts involved monetary compensation on a daily or weekly basis, then "they always seen [sic] it as a job" because it was a job! Duh! :8(

If your ultimate goal is a relationship based on the love of you rather than the love of your money, then you are definitely approaching it in the wrong way. :old: Unless you have unusual and/or repugnant deformities that you haven't revealed, a 27 y.o. should not need to base a relationship on the promise of monetary compensation; and doing so will rob you - at the time of your life when it is most possible - of the superlative experience of having a relationship based on affection for you as a person, rather than your wallet (or the opportunity for emigration, which is the other big "asset" you have in some Thai's eyes).

Geez... a 27 y.o. trying to find a LTR from boys he's paying per night, and paying 3,000 baht (per night!) to boot. If I were a cynic I'd say you're just a troll. (Oh, that's right, I am a cynic...) :bounce:

In the off chance you're for real, though, here's some advice: Date someone you don't have to pay, and who wouldn't even accept money if you offered. They exist, right there in Thailand (well, maybe not in Pattaya...). Of course, if you're just a control freak who needs (psychologically) to use your money to control a relationship, you're probably doing just fine as is...

[pennyboy]

3000bt a night!!!!
Do you think he is clinging to you because you are only 27? I think he would be clinging to me for that amount a day. I'm sorry and hope I am wrong but he is a money boy and that is what attracts him.

good luck

This is a fairly bizarre topic!

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt as you remind me of a young German guy I know of, who suddenly felt insecure when his Thai boyfriend got a scholarship to study in Australia and he realised the Thai guy wasn't a possession who could be bought with hard cash, a luxurious lifestyle or the novelty of a fresh-faced young Caucasian. So there are other people in similar situations.

I don't mean to be unkind but it seems ultimately you have an immature and destructive approach to relationships, and though I don't know you, I would suggest a very different kind of professional help.

If you want a good relationship in Thailand it's the same as anywhere else in the world. You need to enjoy each other's company and be able to communicate with each other. Of course the success rate is going to be higher if there is some mutual physical attraction and you share some interests - that's why large age gaps or cultural differences can be an obstacle.

In the end you need to develop and nurture a relationship over time, whether it's with a GoGo boy or with a doctor or lawyer (probably earning less than 3000 Baht a day though!). There is no 3000 Baht golden ticket in Thailand or anywhere else that will make somebody love you overnight - at best he is infatuated with you, at worst he is a good, overpaid actor!

Whether you're a Brad Pitt lookalike or you are totally hideous it doesn't make a difference either - you need to get to know each other over a long period of time, be conscientious, build up trust, respect his space and let him have a life outside of your bubble too. Don't mistake an overnight infatuation for a loving relationship, whatever his motives for being infatuated with you.

In the long-term, the odds are stacked against you to have an honest long-term relationship with a GoGo boy, but if you can see through this infatuation your life will be easier. It's a great idea to learn some Thai, even a little will go a long way! English lessons for your guy is a nice idea, but why not teach him yourself? You are articulate and fluent in English, so you are more than capable of teaching him. Besides education is the same as a relationship, you can't just throw money at it to get results. This would be a great chance to spend good time together and develop your relationship as well as his English skills so you can communicate better. There are so many English-teaching resources you can find online if you get stuck.

Finally I strongly suggest you make some regular friends if you are going to be in Thailand for a long time. You seem like a nice guy, don't be shy - meet some Thai people who speak English outside of the P4P sex industry, there are a lot of honest friendly Thais around, even in Pattaya! Meet some expats too, we are not all boozy and delusional despite our reputation!

Sorry for the waffly response, advice is cheap. Best of luck matey :pirate:

[fedssocr]

I agree that one of your biggest obstacles is the communication gap. What you have until you are actually able to converse with each other and learn about each other is not a relationship. It is a business arrangement.

And cultivating actual friends not paid companionship is a good idea.

Good luck.

[cdnmatt]

Thanks for the comments everyone! Except for you SF farang. Are you that much of a dick in real life too? I mean, really, what's the point?

To answer some questions. He doesn't work at the bar anymore, and although I doubt I've been given an honest answer as to why, it does mean he's only been a go-go boy for 2 - 3 weeks. Again, I think this is one of the reasons I like him. It's apparent he hasn't been hardened by the scene yet. Either that, or he's VERY good at his job. He lives a block away, I have his friend's cell, and that's how we get ahold of each other. I'd be surprised to find out he went back to the scene anytime soon. I mean, why stand on a stage in your underwear all night, when I'm just a phone call away?

No, I don't live in Thailand, but will be here for the next 2 - 3 months, which I think is enough time to cultivate something meaningful. My business is online, so I do have to be in Canada a bit to take care of things, but can spend tons of time in Thailand if wanted. Immigration would be an issue, but there's ways around that.

I speak as much Thai as he speaks English, which is about three words. Again, that can be solved if wanted. Right now, we just use his friends as translators.

I was already married for three years. Met in Toronto, we were both 22, genuinely fell in love, got married, travelled the world, and the whole nine yards. I got hurt very badly through it though, so I'm not really looking for a genuine, natural relationship. I'm looking for more of a contractual relationship this time around, where we're BOTH happy with things. There's tons of contractual relationships out there, both in Asia and in the West. About 8 months into my previous marriage, I ended up financially responsible for everything due to various reasons, so I'm fine with that.

justin put it perfectly:


If you do enter a real relationship, then it will not be a question of paying him, but supporting him (and to some extent, his family). If he expects a daily allowance which is more than pocket money, I'm afraid it's the folding stuff he loves, and not you.

There we go, you phrased it better than I could! I was just looking for advice / insight on how to get someone out of the "customer -> rent boy" relationship, and make them realize that seeing it as more could be hugely beneficial to them. I mean, I could change this kid's life (and his family's life) forever, raise their standard of living for the better, etc. But trying to get these guys to view me as a human instead of a customer seems to be a little easier said than done.

As for the 3000 baht/night thing being too much, I understand what you guys mean, and I'm sure you're right, but I see it differently. I'm not hurting for cash, and 3000 means nothing to me, whereas to him it's huge. The reason for that is because I'm trying to "wow" him. That's what anyone starting a relationship anywhere in the world does, right? At first you sweep them off their feet, and later on it settles down, right?

And SF farang, no, I'm hardly a control freak. If anything, I'm the total opposite. I get pissed off when people aren't themselves.

Anyway, thanks for all the comments guys! Looks like there's nothing I don't already know. :-) No worries, and I'll get 'er figured! Cheers!

[Diec]

It looks to me cdmatt that you have found true love!! Do not let the naysayers on this forum tell you that you have not found true love with a 3 week bar boy. That love is out there, and you found it!! Congratulations!! I remember when I first met my future husband, I was his first customer ever and we ended up falling in love!!

It looks to me cdmatt that you have found true love!! Do not let the naysayers on this forum tell you that you have not found true love with a 3 week bar boy. That love is out there, and you found it!! Congratulations!! I remember when I first met my future husband, I was his first customer ever and we ended up falling in love!!

I second that-------theres nothing like a fresh hooker to get the juices flowing :pukeright: :pukeright: :pukeright: :pukeright: :pukeright: :pukeright:

[Smiles]

" ... As for the 3000 baht/night thing being too much, I understand what you guys mean, and I'm sure you're right, but I see it differently. I'm not hurting for cash, and 3000 means nothing to me, whereas to him it's huge. The reason for that is because I'm trying to "wow" him. That's what anyone starting a relationship anywhere in the world does, right? At first you sweep them off their feet, and later ... "
Normally I would think one would try sweeping someone else off their feet (at first anyway) by 'other means' than throwing cash at 'em. Maybe a little personality, a little fun together, a little gentleness, a little listening etc etc etc.
You've labeled yourself as an ATM already with the 3000 baht-a-day extravagance and that rep will be very difficult to turn around on a dime (so to speak).

The lack of a common language to learn about each other in is huge in my opinion, and starting out essentially mute ~ heady & heated with 'Relationship' in mind ~ right off the bat is easily disastrous, though not in every case ... good luck.
I am lucky enough to be in a very strong long-term love with a Thai guy (10 years this December, he brags :blackeye: ), but in all honesty I would say that the number one reason for it's longevity is his from-the-get-go facility in english. The downside of it is that it makes me lazy, but I'll live with that in the knowledge that he didn't have to break his butt learning the language for the sake of a relationship . . . he already had it within.

What you probably have going for you ~ perhaps the only thing besides the ATM card ~ is your relatively young age. There's a small chance that he might well fall head over heels for you no matter what the language barrier. But Gone Fishing makes a very good point to keep in mind: you will be seen as a great status-enhancer in the eyes of the guy's friends, if only for the young age. Make no mistake about it, this social dynamic is extremely important to Thai people, and so many westerners ignore ~ or don't comprehend ~ it's very deep pervasiveness in Thai life.

SMILES knows all about Thai relationships, he wooed his elderly boy with a pickup truck ( no cash involved there) :argue: :argue: :argue: :argue:

What you probably have going for you ~ perhaps the only thing besides the ATM card ~ is your relatively young age. There's a small chance that he might well fall head over heels for you no matter what the language barrier. But Gone Fishing makes a very good point to keep in mind: you will be seen as a great status-enhancer in the eyes of the guy's friends, if only for the young age. Make no mistake about it, this social dynamic is extremely important to Thai people, and so many westerners ignore ~ or don't comprehend ~ it's very deep pervasiveness in Thai life.

I agree, Smiles hit the nail on the head.

You also need to understand the idea that most Thais don't think or make decisions independently. They tend to work and function best in groups and are influenced by their peers, friends and family a lot more than the average Westerner. It's not peer pressure because the average Thai willingly submits to this mob mentality! This isn't a derogatory comment, it's just part of Thai culture, and it has good and bad consequences.

What it means to you and your new-found boyfriend is that any decision he blindly makes is most likely what his mother or the network of other bar boys or whoever tells him to do. That's why all the girls/boys who work in the bars say the same stock phrases "You handsome man", "up to you" and so on. Once you've known him for a few weeks, you'll bet his friends will be telling him "say mother sick" "ask for diamond ring, ask for pickup truck" or the classic "kwai mai sabai" (three more Thai words to boost your vocab). Not saying he's going to be dishonest, but as a young guy who's new to the game, he's going to be looking to the other bar boys for bragging rights, recognition and advice.

"I'm 27, look much younger, no Brad Pitt but fairly decent looking, nice guy, well composed, good hygiene, etc."

OMG. Are you for real? OK, this is just from my 68 year old point of view. Look at the customers in the boy bars. In most cases, we are older men who have not much to offer 19 year old boys except money. So, any relationship we have with them starts out as commercial, and it stays that way, though it may be tempered somewhat by something resembling "love" at a much later date.

So, I don't get it. Why would a young, "fairly decent looking" guy with obviously sufficient funding go to bars to look for "true love", for an LTR?

Current university students, recent graduates, young office workers, all of whom would speak some English, are available and perhaps would be less eager to empty your bank account for the sake of the farm and buffaloes in Issan.

Starting off with a bar boy who speaks no English, and wait 2-3 years till you two can communicate meaningfully??? What if neither of you will like what the other says, the way the other thinks???

But I have made so many mistakes in this area that my comments have to be taken with multiple grains of salt.

All I can say is Choke dee, na.

Wake up and smell the coffee - You Can't Have a meaningful long term relationship with a money boy!!! You're in big denial right now - one day you'll see.

Cut his daily allowance from 3000 baht to 500 baht and see if he is still as you say "molesting you". No money no honey is their motto.

You're young - stay away from the bar boys and find someone compatible - Pattaya is NOT the place to find your life partner.

I have to agree with the above. You're talking about a prostitue you picked out of a line-up. You picked him; he didn't pick you. You can take a boy out of the bar, but you can never take the bar out of the boy. You are signing up for a lifetime of paying a prostitute.

At your age, you can do better.

[Beachlover]

"I'm 27, look much younger, no Brad Pitt but fairly decent looking, nice guy, well composed, good hygiene, etc."

OMG. Are you for real? OK, this is just from my 68 year old point of view. Look at the customers in the boy bars. In most cases, we are older men who have not much to offer 19 year old boys except money. So, any relationship we have with them starts out as commercial, and it stays that way, though it may be tempered somewhat by something resembling "love" at a much later date.

So, I don't get it. Why would a young, "fairly decent looking" guy with obviously sufficient funding go to bars to look for "true love", for an LTR?

Current university students, recent graduates, young office workers, all of whom would speak some English, are available and perhaps would be less eager to empty your bank account for the sake of the farm and buffaloes in Issan.

Starting off with a bar boy who speaks no English, and wait 2-3 years till you two can communicate meaningfully??? What if neither of you will like what the other says, the way the other thinks???

But I have made so many mistakes in this area that my comments have to be taken with multiple grains of salt.

All I can say is Choke dee, na.

Maybe he went there for some quick, easy to get fun... and ended up falling in love.

[Beachlover]

The "social status enhancer" thing mentioned by a few posters is true. Picking up a cute, young, well to do foreigner is a big status enhancer thing with many Thai boys...

[TrongpaiExpat]

Thanks for the comments everyone! Except for you SF farang. Are you that much of a dick in real life too? I mean, really, what's the point?


Actually, I did not find SF Farang's post all that offensive. I agree with many of his points though I know you don't want to hear that side of the equation. You really learn more from the critical posts than those who are taking the cheer leader approach.

I might ask, what's your point in posting if you did not want to hear from all sides?

I was already married for three years. Met in Toronto, we were both 22, genuinely fell in love, got married, travelled the world, and the whole nine yards. I got hurt very badly through it though, so I'm not really looking for a genuine, natural relationship. I'm looking for more of a contractual relationship this time around, where we're BOTH happy with things. There's tons of contractual relationships out there, both in Asia and in the West. About 8 months into my previous marriage, I ended up financially responsible for everything due to various reasons, so I'm fine with that.


The plot thickens and is near perfect! My suggestion is to give him 75,000 a month, with annual increments, and make it officially a contractual relationship as well since you're "fine with that". I should be so lucky to be in the same position! You have engineered this perfectly and you should formalize it with a legal contract.

Look, you have the money, this boy is making you very happy. What the hell! Why not?

Forget the nay sayers! You may never have this golden opportunity again! Go for it! :thumbright:

[Beachlover]

Thanks for the comments everyone! Except for you SF farang. Are you that much of a dick in real life too? I mean, really, what's the point?


Actually, I did not find SF Farang's post all that offensive. I agree with many of his points though I know you don't want to hear that side of the equation. You really learn more from the critical posts than those who are taking the cheer leader approach.

I might ask, what's your point in posting if you did not want to hear from all sides?

SF had some valid points... but I don't think there's any need to be this insulting or negatively assumptive when offering feedback.

[Beachlover]

In terms of getting him to stop working in the bar, this might be possible. But it's not going to be sustainable in the long term if he is doing nothing else... i.e. nothing constructive.

You might want to consider helping him into another occupation... whether by teaching him English or supporting some studies.

If the relationship doesn't work out... you might want to consider (if you haven't already) going out to meet Thai boys elsewhere... online, in clubs and discos... etc. There's plenty of ordinary Thai boys to have fun with. Many would never consider being paid for sex. Others are 100% money boys. Some are sort of in between... they are ordinary Thai boys who are "opportunists"... they want to have fun but wouldn't mind some "support" or "gifts".

[Patexpat]

Well taking all the above in to account, and if as you say you are a presentable 27 yo then sure, your boy has gained a lot of kudos with his friends - but if you are paying the 19 yo more than the salary of a Thai International airline pilot and similar professionals and think that has no bearing on his feelings and attitude to you, then you must have the blinkers well and truly super glued on IMHO.

[cdnmatt]

Ok, this is starting to get pretty useless.


You're young - stay away from the bar boys and find someone compatible - Pattaya is NOT the place to find your life partner.

No, I don't want to. :P I've already had my "life partner", did the whole forever and always thing for years, joint bank accounts, etc. Didn't work out, and I don't feel like putting myself in a position where I can get that hurt at the moment. At least with this I know what I'm getting myself into from the beginning.


You're talking about a prostitue you picked out of a line-up. You picked him; he didn't pick you. You can take a boy out of the bar, but you can never take the bar out of the boy.

He was working in a bar for about 3 weeks, so you're telling me I can't take that out of him? I could understand if he was there for years, because I've already been though that, but 3 weeks? Only major concern is what other people have already said; he's going to take advice from his friends, who have been here for years, way before he'll ever listen to me.


At your age, you can do better.

Been there, done that, don't want to do it again, at least not right now. I like to help people in a way they can't help themselves. It's what makes me sleep well at night. Say I go meet some 23yo who's going to university for an engineering degree. How am I supposed to help him? I can't. This 19yo on the other hand, if he wants, I can transform his entire life for him. And you can't tell me he doesn't want love, security, stability, to be taken care of, and a better life for both himself and his family. Not wanting that defies human nature, regardless of culture.

And I know right now I'm a status symbol + ATM machine for him, because I've already been paraded around lots by other boys who like to show me off. I know how it goes. I was just looking for advice from others who have had long-term relationships, and how to make them realize that it's worth while seeing me differently. Obviously, I'm not going to get that here.

Anyway, I'm outta here! For those who posted supporting comments and great advice, thank you very much! For the cynics, it must suck to have such a shitty view of the world. I've been an entrepreneur for about a decade for a reason, so I'll take care of it. If you wanted, I'll post an update in about 4 weeks letting you know everything is going great. Just watch. ;)

Cheers boys!

Like I said - you're in a dream world and only want to hear positive feedback to confirm your wishes. I suggest you remove the money from your love equation and see if the goo goo gaa gaa continues. Honestly I hope that you proof me wrong... but I doubt it.

BTW - 4 week is too short of a time to report back - Of course everything will continue to be great as long as the cash continues to flow. Being cynical and realistic are two different things.

[cdnmatt]

Sure, I'm in a dream world. I'll agree with that, but hey, that's where dreams are made. ;) Can't tell me the impossible isn't possible. ;)

Anyway, obviously I won't get any helpful advice from here, so talk to you boys later!

Sure, I'm in a dream world. I'll agree with that, but hey, that's where dreams are made. ;) Can't tell me the impossible isn't possible. ;)

Anyway, obviously I won't get any helpful advice from here, so talk to you boys later!

Why do you bother to ask for advice if you are going to rudely dismiss it when it does not come back as you want it to?

You are talking to people decades and decades older than you -- many of us have been through it all before. You'd be wise to listen up, because you are on the verge of wasting months or years of your lives, and untold thousands of dollars, on someone who probably does not love you and never will.

I think that cdnmatt may be the least deluded of people writing here. He has already said he is looking for something that is a contractual arrangement. He has found a boy who he really likes and has the financial wherewithal to set the terms of engagement. I think he is on the right track.

In fact, he seems to be one of the most clear thinking people on this board. I don't see much dreamlike fantasy in his approach.

Most of the respondents here are projecting too much of their own fantasies into cdnmatt's story. Enjoy yourself cdnmatt and don't be distracted by the tired old queers on this board. :salute:

You're young - stay away from the bar boys and find someone compatible - Pattaya is NOT the place to find your life partner.

No, I don't want to. :P I've already had my "life partner", did the whole forever and always thing for years, joint bank accounts, etc. Didn't work out, and I don't feel like putting myself in a position where I can get that hurt at the moment. At least with this I know what I'm getting myself into from the beginning.

Cheers boys!

This is an absolutely brilliant response cdnmatt. Most here can't see what you're driving at since they have been blinded by their own failures. :thumbright:

[francois]

Hey everyone,

I'm 27, look much younger, no Brad Pitt but fairly decent looking, nice guy, well composed, good hygiene, etc.
Cheers guys!

After reading all the comments, etc, this post is even more curious then the Curious Case of Benjamin Button, who, as Brad Pitt, got younger and younger.

[cdnmatt]

Thanks guys!

Because nobody ever answered my original question(s). For the most part, for responses I got, "right on man, congrats!", or "you're a complete, naive fool who has no clue". Not to sound like a jerk, but all the advice I got was the standard shit that anyone who's spent more than two weeks in Pattaya already knows.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking for genuine, true love, or my soulmate, or anything like that. Already found my soul mate once, and he turned out to be an asshole, so don't particularly want to find another one. Just looking for a mutually beneficial relationship. He takes care of me, I take care of him, and we're both better off in life for it. Simple as that. :)



So, I want him for long-term, but I'm a little unsure how this all works here. Do I just offer him to live with me, and offer to pay him say 500 baht per day (15,000/month)? I've been told the average go-go boy without customers makes 3000/month, so I think that's reasonable, no? Or is that too cheap? I don't need or want sex every night, have a really nice 1bdrm condo, he'll have his own key so he can come and go as he wants, if he wants I can get him an English tutor, and myself a Thai tutor, etc.

Fair enough... and here is my advice:

1. Don't let him move in with you - rent a 4500/month room for him. This way you guys can spend as much time as you like and whenever each one of you need some space - he can always go back to his room. This can also make it easier should things not work out between the two of you without you having to physically kick him out of your condo.

2. Give him a budget of 10,000 baht spending money per month. This should include utilities, food, clothes, etc, but excluding rent.

3. Tell him you're NOT interested in visiting and/or knowing his family (at least at this early stage of your friendship) - as this will cost you plenty!!

Good luck.

[fedssocr]

you're not really talking about a "long term relationship" in the way that term is generally understood. Your first post made it sound like you were looking for a long term BF. That has evolved as you have filled in more details. It sounds like you want to "save" one boy and, oh by the way, have some hot sex with him along the way. It is a rather patronizing view of this boy. It doesn't sound like you really seen him as an actual person. He is a "project" and a commodity. If you really just want to help people, build a school in a poor community. Donate your money to one of the many charities that exist to help poor people in Thailand. Or Canada or wherever. But what you are proposing seems a little fucked up to me. The idea of "saving" a poor boy for your satisfaction doesn't treat him like a human being. And as he becomes dependent on you for everything that means you will be the one holding most of the cards if not all of them. What happens if he actually does get into a good school and can support himself? Will you then toss him aside to find another poor boy to "help"?

Why do you think you have nothing to offer to a university graduate? It sounds like your entire self-worth is tied up in your wealth, not any other characteristic of your. How long ago did this marriage of yours end? Maybe you need some time to figure out yourself. Perhaps some counseling...

I'm not sure what are you really want from the people here. If all you want is a contractual set up, that should be easy enough for such a successful young business man to arrange. What you are looking for sounds like little more than a long term "off".

Yes...a long-term off.

But, why? If you want to spend time with him or have sex with him, you can have him any time you want. Just call him and he'll show up. You pay him, and he goes away.

It is so much less complicated than a long-term situation which will inevitably end in your getting bored with him. Once that happens, you will find that it is much harder to get out of such situations than it is to get in them.

So, my advice is to let him continue working in the bar. Take him off as often as you want, but don't make him your pretend boyfriend.

So, my advice is to let him continue working in the bar. Take him off as often as you want, but don't make him your pretend boyfriend.

Actually this is a better advice than mine :cheers:

[a447]

Agree completely! Just off him when you "need" him.

I think all of the contributions above, both pro and con, are valuable in exploring the dynamics of such a relationship. So it just depends on whether or not the OP wants to maintain an LTR with a prostitute, or try for someone of another calling.
Choke dee to the OP in his search for the "perfect boy".

So much good advice - so ungraciously received!

To sum up this "relationship", cdnmatt has known this Thai bar-boy for a fortnight at the most, they have no way of communicating directly as neither speaks the other's language, he knows nothing about him, his background, his education, his hopes for the future, his interests or his family, they have not been together 24/7 (or even 24/1) and he wants a "relationship" on his terms and reassurance that he is on the right path.

Cdnmatt, you do not need advice, you need a nanny to control your immature, self-indulgent, petulant life.


Normally I would think one would try sweeping someone else off their feet (at first anyway) by 'other means' than throwing cash at 'em. Maybe a little personality, a little fun together, a little gentleness, a little listening etc etc etc.

But the problem, Smiles, is that cdnmatt has none of the above, so "throwing cash" is all he can do: no personality away from his computer screen, no ability to provide "fun" which is why going out together mans a group visit to the karaoke, and little "need or want" of "the other" - which at 27 years old I (and probably most here) wanted pretty often!


What you are looking for sounds like little more than a long term "off".

Why "little" more? That's exactly what it is.



If you want to spend time with him or have sex with him, you can have him any time you want. Just call him and he'll show up. You pay him, and he goes away.

But that is exactly what he is already doing, BB!


SF had some valid points... but I don't think there's any need to be this insulting or negatively assumptive when offering feedback.

Why not? The dick-head who asked the question was considerably more negative and insulting. And who said cdnmatt was "cute"? If he was, why are the only boys he can pick up those who are after his money? That he can't converse with them is probably the only thing on his side, as they have yet to be bored to death by hearing what a great guy he thinks he is.

Last, and definitely least:


At least with this I know what I'm getting myself into from the beginning.

You have absolutely no idea. You know nothing about him, or what he is thinking - apart from him thinking he has never had it so good; he doesn't even have to have sex with you that much, and he still gets paid and to go out for a good time with his friends.


And you can't tell me he doesn't want love, security, stability, to be taken care of, and a better life for both himself and his family

No, I can't. But I can tell you that maybe while he wants all the rest he may not want the "love" bit from you.


I was just looking for advice from others who have had long-term relationships, and how to make them realize that it's worth while seeing me differently. Obviously, I'm not going to get that here.

No you weren't. You got advice from those of us in or who have had genuine long-term relationships, that have lasted far longer than any you have had, and you rejected it.


If you wanted, I'll post an update in about 4 weeks letting you know everything is going great. Just watch.

Why? 4 weeks is a holiday "off", not a "long term relationship". Who cares?


I'd be surprised to find out he went back to the scene anytime soon. I mean, why stand on a stage in your underwear all night, when I'm just a phone call away?

I think everyone here would be equally surprised.


I'm not hurting for cash, and 3000 means nothing to me, whereas to him it's huge. The reason for that is because I'm trying to "wow" him. That's what anyone starting a relationship anywhere in the world does, right? At first you sweep them off their feet, and later on it settles down, right?

WRONG (sorry, but I meant to shout). On the one hand you say that you "get pissed off when people aren't themselves", yet you think it is normal to put on a big show and splash the cash - you can't have it both ways.


Or I don't know, am I just still completely naive and clueless?

RIGHT!

[Brad the Impala]

Cdnmatt, you do not need advice, you need a nanny to control your immature, self-indulgent, petulant life.



Why not? The dick-head who asked the question was considerably more negative and insulting. And who said cdnmatt was "cute"? If he was, why are the only boys he can pick up those who are after his money? That he can't converse with them is probably the only thing on his side, as they have yet to be bored to death by hearing what a great guy he thinks he is.





This couldn't possibly be the same poster who wrote last week to ES..............




surely it is only reasonable that any deliberately confrontational / inflammatory post, aimed at an individual rather than an issue, is deleted without waiting to see if it has the desired effect?

Whining Thread (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/posting-guidelines/deletion-and-moderation-t18092.html)

[francois]

After re-reading the posts on this topic, especially that of Gone Fishing, I do smell a troll in the personna of cdnmatt. He seems to be milking his post more than Elsie the Cow, whose husband was Elmer the Bull(shitter).

This couldn't possibly be the same poster who wrote last week to ES..............

[quote="Gone Fishing":28ra4mbp]

surely it is only reasonable that any deliberately confrontational / inflammatory post, aimed at an individual rather than an issue, is deleted without waiting to see if it has the desired effect?[/quote:28ra4mbp]

No, Brad the Liar, it couldn't because as usual you have deliberately mis-quoted me. There is really no need to continually demonstrate your ability to lie, edit and mis-represent what I and others write, as I am sure that those few interested in your childish digs are well aware of your ability and experiece in this area. What I actually wrote (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/posting-guidelines/deletion-and-moderation-t18092.html) (with the missing section underlined) was :

"If the intention is now to pre-empt any such "degeneration", then surely it is only reasonable that any deliberately confrontational / inflammatory post, aimed at an individual rather than an issue, is deleted without waiting to see if it has the desired effect?"

The meaning is very clear and if read in context is the opposite of what you said I wrote. Grow up, Brad; I have so far given you the benefit of the doubt that you may occasionally have something intelligent to say, but I appear to be mistaken.

[Beachlover]

you're not really talking about a "long term relationship" in the way that term is generally understood. Your first post made it sound like you were looking for a long term BF. That has evolved as you have filled in more details. It sounds like you want to "save" one boy and, oh by the way, have some hot sex with him along the way. It is a rather patronizing view of this boy. It doesn't sound like you really seen him as an actual person. He is a "project" and a commodity. If you really just want to help people, build a school in a poor community. Donate your money to one of the many charities that exist to help poor people in Thailand. Or Canada or wherever. But what you are proposing seems a little fucked up to me. The idea of "saving" a poor boy for your satisfaction doesn't treat him like a human being. And as he becomes dependent on you for everything that means you will be the one holding most of the cards if not all of them. What happens if he actually does get into a good school and can support himself? Will you then toss him aside to find another poor boy to "help"?

Why do you think you have nothing to offer to a university graduate? It sounds like your entire self-worth is tied up in your wealth, not any other characteristic of your. How long ago did this marriage of yours end? Maybe you need some time to figure out yourself. Perhaps some counseling...

I'm not sure what are you really want from the people here. If all you want is a contractual set up, that should be easy enough for such a successful young business man to arrange. What you are looking for sounds like little more than a long term "off".

There are some valid points to keep in mind here, cdtmatt.

There are lots of jerks here... but if you wade through the drivel you'll find there's some pretty important wisdom to be had... mainly on the dynamics of Thai culture/way of thinking and the way your boy will respond to things differently to a Westerner.

Helping and supporting the boy is great... but keep in mind there needs to be plenty of genuine love there as well. Thais feel bad if someone helps them out too much... because they feel like they start to owe too much to you... if you shower him in gifts/money/support (not saying that you will) he may feel trapped into being indebted to you. But if there is some genuine love and caring there, then this support would be ok.

In any case, if you're going to get him away from the bar, make sure he doesn't feel like he's being coerced into it. And make sure there's something constructive for him to do... study or some kind of work.

[cdnmatt]

heh, ok, whatever guys. This thread is obviously over. :)

No, I'm not looking for true, genuine love, but yes, I'm looking for a long-term relationship. In two or three years from now, I do still want to be in contact with him. Just looking for a mutually beneficial relationship. He takes care of me, I take care of him, and we're both better off in life because of it. Simple as that.

It's just that I've never done this before, hence why I was looking for advice. What type of arrangements do you make, how much, what should I do or not do, what should I look out for, how have your previous relationships turned out, and all that jazz.

Anyway, doesn't matter. I'm sure I'll see some of you guys while wandering around. Come say hi!

How will we recognise you, do you have a pic or will you be wearing a red rose behind your ear?

How will we recognise you, do you have a pic or will you be wearing a red rose behind your ear?

Given the very small number of 27 year old farang in Pattaya, I would say it won't be hard.

[allieb]

How will we recognise you, do you have a pic or will you be wearing a red rose behind your ear?

Given the very small number of 27 year old farang in Pattaya, I would say it won't be hard.

If he is indeed 27 and not 72. What's a 27 year old punter doing in Pattaya he's 30 years too early ?

The only punters in their 20's Iv'e met are Arabs who don't know any other way of getting sex.

How will we recognise you, do you have a pic or will you be wearing a red rose behind your ear?

Given the very small number of 27 year old farang in Pattaya, I would say it won't be hard.

If he is indeed 27 and not 72. What's a 27 year old punter doing in Pattaya he's 30 years too early ?


he may be 27 - but physically he is no different than y'all - Smelly, big, fat and ugly :idea: - so he'll fit right in :cheers:

[a447]

Mmmmm...a troll, eh francois> Je crois que tu as raison! Je me souviens de quelqu'un qui s'appelle
lollylowlife

[cdnmatt]

Could we please turn the cynicism and arrogance up a couple notches? I don't think we have quite enough yet. Thanks in advance! :)

And if you're wondering why I don't try to find someone in Canada, here's a good example:

http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/m4m/

That's pretty much what you find in the gay scene throughout Canada. Now why would I fuck around with all that, when I can just as easily have a great, sweet, cute, loving Thai boy who has a soft personality, and takes great care of me? Not to mention it's my first time ever doing something like that, and if it's true that I'm actually his first filang, then we're both going through a new journey in life together. And as an added bonus, I get to help him out in a way he can't help himself. Now why wouldn't I want to do that, especially considering I have the freedom and capability of doing such a thing?

Sure glad it's such a supportive community around here! :)

"Loving" is the hard part...unless you like make-believe.

It sounds more like you want a subservient houseboy you can fuck. Ain't nothing wrong with that, but call a spade a spade...

I'm actually his first filang, .... you are his 1st filang all right - THIS WEEK!!! :cheers: :cheers:

BTW what the hell is filang ???? :idea: :idea:

BTW what the hell is filang ???? :idea: :idea:

A portmanteau (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portmanteau) of "farang" and "fling". Rather appropriate.

If he is indeed 27 and not 72. What's a 27 year old punter doing in Pattaya he's 30 years too early ?

I first came here on holiday when in my 20's; I have been living here, retired, since my 30's and I am by no means the only one.



It sounds more like you want a subservient houseboy you can fuck. Ain't nothing wrong with that, but call a spade a spade...

BB, regrettably you are spot on again; had he asked for advice on that, rather than on a "long term relationship" he would probably have got it, instead of some of the laughable generalisations such as "Thais feel bad if someone helps them out too much..."!!

[Beachlover]

lol... that craigslist link paints a pretty bleak picture.

[Beachlover]

The "cute, sweet Thai boy who takes great care" of you bit does sound good. If it makes you happy to be around him then you've found someone special. I hope it works out.

[francois]

Mmmmm...a troll, eh francois> Je crois que tu as raison! Je me souviens de quelqu'un qui s'appelle
lollylowlife
Mais oui; the more cdnmatt squeezes their teats the more the forum members produce in response.

[allieb]

If he is indeed 27 and not 72. What's a 27 year old punter doing in Pattaya he's 30 years too early ?

I first came here on holiday when in my 20's; I have been living here, retired, since my 30's and I am by no means the only one.

Before we go any futher on this one, would you like to tell us how long you have lived in Thailand, or to the point how old are you now? You have said in previous posts that you are in a non commercial mutual love relationship. Were you a punter when you first arrived at the young age of 20 something? The original poster is clearly a punter who's picked up a whore. He says he's 27, there must be something wrong with him if he's paying already.

I would also be interested to know how you got retirement status in your 30's.

[Diec]

I think you people should leave this poor man alone. It's obvious he has the face of Elephant Boy and needs to find and pay for sex in a foreign country where they do not judge so much by looks. As for him retiring when he's 30, why would anyone doubt him? I'm sure he also flies first class wherever he goes, with his business paying for it. People...just enjoy his posts.

would you like to tell us how long you have lived in Thailand, or to the point how old are you now? ....Were you a punter when you first arrived at the young age of 20 something?.....I would also be interested to know how you got retirement status in your 30's.

1. 16 years.

2. 52.

3. No, I was on holiday.

4. I stopped working.


I think you people should leave this poor man alone. It's obvious he has the face of Elephant Boy and needs to find and pay for sex in a foreign country where they do not judge so much by looks. As for him retiring when he's 30, why would anyone doubt him? I'm sure he also flies first class wherever he goes, with his business paying for it. People...just enjoy his posts.

No idea if you are talking about me or not, but since cdnmatt has not retired and is only 27 you can't be talking about him, so just in case:

As I have barely lived in the UK (my home country) since I was 20 Thailand is no more "foreign" to me than anywhere else. I have only once flown first class, when I was upgraded (from economy) and I have never owned, run or worked for a "business".

[allieb]

would you like to tell us how long you have lived in Thailand, or to the point how old are you now? ....Were you a punter when you first arrived at the young age of 20 something?.....I would also be interested to know how you got retirement status in your 30's.

1. 16 years.

2. 52.

3. No, I was on holiday.

4. I stopped working.



What I would like to know is how you managed to stay for 14 years until were able to apply for the retirement visa (50). I'm just curious.

Interesting conundrum and one which all regular visitors to Thailand, both gay and straight battle with. I have mostly straight friends in Pattaya who have the same problem with the bar girls they are in long term relationships with. All are visiting up to 3 times a year and providing funds on a monthly basis to maintain their heart throbs in the manner to which they have become accustomed. I myself had a relationship with a bar boy for 5 years; it ended last November. He is now 33. I loved him and probably still do if the truth be known. The age gap is certainly a problem, but we must not shrink from the unbridled truth that there would be no relationship if it did not exist. I do not want to shag a 60 year old, I couldn't shag a 60 year old. Perhaps a shallow sentiment, but the depth of my morality is ever diminished with the ebb of time. I too sent a monthly stipend to my lover. This was a sum arrived at by a negotiated agreement and was the 'minimum' sum that he could comfortably exist on. I asked a friend of mine who is a bar owner in Pattaya how much he paid his girls. His is an ordinary beer bar and he has about 15 girls working. He said they get paid between 4000 & 5000 Baht per month, dependent on their usefulness? He then went on to elaborate that in the main the girls live on their monthly wage by sharing accommodation with 2 or 3 other girls. He said any additional funds they gain from a take-off is sent home to maintain the family back on the farm. I established that this was the case with my lover. He worked in a go-go where he was paid only by the number of drinks that were bought for him and a share of the tips plus the money from take-offs. Part of the agreement was that he would abandon his work in the boy bar and thereafter he worked as a waiter in a ladies go-go. He earned about 4500 Baht wage plus as far as I could judge 150 Baht on average per night in tips. I sent him 15000 + 9000 from his work seemed to keep him happy.
I think you should try and analyse his monetary needs and if you are there for any length of time - what he is doing with the money you are giving him? With the sort of money you are paying he must have a large entourage or he is gambling? I bet he is not saving for a rainy day. The doubt will be the undoing if you are not careful. The most important thing is enjoy each other whilst you are together - it can be beautiful.

[francois]

Interesting conundrum and one which all regular visitors to Thailand, both gay and straight battle with. He is now 33. I loved him and probably still do if the truth be known. The age gap is certainly a problem, but we must not shrink from the unbridled truth that there would be no relationship if it did not exist. I do not want to shag a 60 year old, I couldn't shag a 60 year old.

longdorm, I think I understand what you said, but need a little clairification. I assume when you ended your relationship with the bf at age 33 yo, you also ended his monthly allowance? If so, did he get a parachute? Did he have another means of supporting himself? It is something, some, but not all have to face who have a long term relationship. For me, I will be dead before the bf is "too old" for me. But I do wonder what does happen when their sponsor is dead or gone?

What I would like to know is how you managed to stay for 14 years until were able to apply for the retirement visa (50). I'm just curious.

14 x 1 year multiple entry 90 day Non-Immigrant visas and around 45 visa runs!

I am not so sure how you would measure/qualify "a non commercial mutual love relationship", which is why I try to avoid such generalisations / classifications. Smiles certainly qualifies,as both he and Pot contribute to the financial side of the relationship, but as all our assets were originaly mine, do I? Do Bill and Melinda Gates? Does QE II and Phil the Greek? Do your/my parents? I am happy that my partner is not working as that means we have more time together, but if he got a job would that mean that our relationship would e re-classified??

I actually have no problem with cdnmatt's proposed "relationship", as he has re-defined it - it really would be a win-win situation for all. My problem was with the lack of honesty/economy of truth in the original post.

[Brad the Impala]

I actually have no problem with cdnmatt's proposed "relationship", as he has re-defined it

He will be so relieved.

[cdnmatt]

Well, it's been about three weeks, so I'm giving an update. For all you cynics and nay-sayers, it's working out beautifully, thank you very much. I'm totally in love with him, and I'm 100% certain now that he genuinely loves me as well. It's been through enough tests now to let me know there's no way this is just a typical, fake, Pattaya-style relationship, and it's more genuine than that.

For one example, he'll refuse money from me now, unless he actually needs some. He's not greedy at all either, and he doesn't need much. For example, I just have a crappy 900 baht Nokia cell phone, and the one he bought for himself is even worst than mine, so it's not like he's eyeing me up for that fancy 8000 baht cell.

You know, I now have him at the point where he simply knows he's taken care of, and knows that I only want him, and no other boys. This is exactly what I was looking for from beginning, and looks like I managed it. He doesn't care about how much money he gets from me anymore. He just wants to be taken care of, which he is. On the flip side, I'm just looking for someone to take care of me (and no, not just sexually), and I have more than I could hope for with him. Works out perfectly for both of us.

I have to get him back into school though. The poor guy can barely even read, as he had to quit school at an early age. I'm under no delusions, and expect this relationship to last maybe 2 or 3 years at the most, if that. If it lasts longer, than great for both of us, but I know how these things go. Assuming I get approved for my 1 year visa, once I make the permanent move out here, I'll have to work on getting some education into him. This way if and when the relationship turns sour, he's capable of taking care of himself, instead of being left out to dry. I definitely don't want to see him forced to dicker with farangs in a go-go bar whether his ass is worth 800 or 1000 baht short-time. That's my only real concern right now.

Other than that, for you cynics, sorry boys, but it's working our beautifully. Assuming I get my 1 year non-immigrant visa, I can basically guarantee this will turn into a genuine, long-term relationship. :) I'm happy, he's happy, so it's all good.

[bao-bao]

I wish cdnmatt and his new partner the best of luck.

It seems there are a few Thai/Farang couples that can make it work over the long haul, but from all you read and heard theyтАЩre bucking extremely steep odds. Even cdnmatt says heтАЩs тАЬtried the long-term relationship thing a few times beforeтАЭ, although that may have been back in the Land of the Maple Leaf and not the Land of Smiles, I donтАЩt know. If this is the third or fourth "long term relationship" heтАЩs tried in Thailand in 10 months, perhaps this time will be the charm (or perhaps we're working with different definitions of "long term"). Even he admits (wisely) that he doesnтАЩt expect the relationship to last more than тАЬmaybe 2 or 3 years at the most, if that.тАЭ

cdnmatt said he was 27, should memory serve, and thatтАЩs challenge number one. LifeтАЩs experience teaches us a number of lessons as we mature and molds us into the people we become; cdnmatt himself has a ways to go, as most readers here well know, and his 19-year-old boyfriend is far greener. While the basics are in place by the age of 19 тАУ honesty, respect for others, morality and the likes тАУ our likes, dislikes, viewpoints and values that make us who we are change as we grow. тАЬIтАЩll love you foreverтАЭ brings a very different vision to the mind of a тАЬreal ruralтАЭ 19-year-old Thai тАУ who may well think of a stable place to live, a plot of land and perhaps their own transportation тАУ than it does to a middle-aged non-Thai, who may well think of someone to take care of them as they age, help keep house for them, and provide stable companionship for them, as well as share their bed (which often provides its own challenges for the older partner as time goes by).

The other variable to this pairing is the difference in traditions and cultures: from what IтАЩve learned from those that have been through it, itтАЩs a classic example of тАЬWhen in Rome, do as the Romans doтАЭ. The more the farang is willing and able to adapt to the Thai ways, the stronger the chances are of success in the relationship, and thatтАЩs challenge number two.

Granted, most Thai can be gracious and accept parts of тАЬWestern CultureтАЭ for a guest, but itтАЩs often far more of a challenge for farang to accept multi-generational cultural traditions. Family coming to visit is one thing, but having several move in with you for the long term? Come on, now тАУ how would most members here deal with that? Trips to the temple, traditional religious holidays, events, journeys тАУ just a few minor examples of the plethora of things it would be wiser for the farang to adapt to than to try to get the Thai to ignore. Religious differences are a definite sub-challenge here.

Challenge number three: the probability of the younger Thai becoming тАЬWesternizedтАЭ. Ours is a culture of тАЬMe first, Now, and MoreтАЭ. Yes, he may be the unspoiled just-off-the-farm, only-in-the-city-two-weeks young man NOW, but give him a little while exposed to Western culture and see if he remains content to live the simple life he has been a product of. Unless you move him back out to the farm heтАЩs going to be influenced by the same peer pressure most all farang fall victim to, and that can change anyone. IтАЩd add that if itтАЩs a change away from Thai ways to Western ways it isnтАЩt usually a change for the better, either. I agree, education is very important, but with that comes exposure to new ways and things (partying, drinking and drugs, for example) while schooling with peers.

Those are just a few quick thoughts on the subject, and I donтАЩt mean to malign the three week relationship that cdmatt described as certain: тАЬI'm totally in love with him, and I'm 100% certain now that he genuinely loves me as well. It's been through enough tests now to let me know there's no way this is just a typical, fake, Pattaya-style relationship, and it's more genuine than that.тАЭ Wonderful, if true.

I wish them the best of luck and would love to see them beat the odds. I hope he will be as forthcoming as Dodger in updating the relationship here. It gives the rest of us a look at things we may never experience ourselves, and thatтАЩs a help.

[Brad the Impala]

Good post Bao Bao. I will try to respond more constructively in time.

[Ron-Heng Vancouver]

Bao, CDMatt - others....

It was good to get caught up on the posts and this thread has been particularly informative, albeit sometimes a little too cynical.

CDMatt initially posted in another thread and spoke in detail about his life, being in Thailand, et al after visiting his parents in Malaysia.

The one thing I like about Matt (outside of also being from Vancouver) is that he knows what he wants, is specific about it, and for 27 yrs old, quite practical and realistic. He also seems like a guy who rescues people. Overall, as in his initial thread on another subject, he was clear that he had no illusions about connecting with a Thai man - that it takes money whether here or anywhere else in the world.

I think the biggest obstacle will be the language barrier.... Ben (my Thai partner of 12 years) speaks English at the highest proficiency and I often asked myself if I would have had the same wonderful and beautiful relationship over the past 12 years if he had not spoken English? I was lucky to have met and fallen in love with a 24 yr old Thai man (who had the brain and maturity of a 45 year old) and he had already gone through the cycle of relationships with a wide range of Thai guys himself (16-24 yr old) and also white men and decided on older white man "because they have maturity, and a life plan."

Matt's objective to get this young man back into school is a smart idea.

Matt, when you are back in Vancouver let's meet up. I would love to meet you and you can tell me all about your adventures there in Thailand, and I can offer whatever advice I can from my relationship (that I swear was made in heaven ...) with Ben.

Th Craig's List (Vancouver) reference made me chuckle... albeit a sad state.

Matt, you have the right attitude, the right expectations, and using your instincts, you'll do fine.

Hope to see you in Vancouver.\

Ron

and this thread has been particularly informative, albeit sometimes a little too cynical.I'm a newbie here myself. What level of cynicism is acceptable before it becomes too cynical?

[Ron-Heng Vancouver]

[quote="Ron-Heng Vancouver":n75wifvs]and this thread has been particularly informative, albeit sometimes a little too cynical.I'm a newbie here myself. What level of cynicism is acceptable before it becomes too cynical?[/quote:n75wifvs]

Too cynical? when the statements are hurtful, and do not contribute information or humour and become a "shoot out"...

[quote="Copper Pheel":1y5io6m2][quote="Ron-Heng Vancouver":1y5io6m2]and this thread has been particularly informative, albeit sometimes a little too cynical.I'm a newbie here myself. What level of cynicism is acceptable before it becomes too cynical?[/quote:1y5io6m2]Too cynical? when the statements are hurtful, and do not contribute information or humour and become a "shoot out"...[/quote:1y5io6m2]One of those by itself "hurtful statements" for example would not be too cynical, it has to have all three attributes. Is that correct?

[Ron-Heng Vancouver]

Well, it's just my opinion, but for me, I think all three conditions, yes.

My expectation for myself is to not be negative at all and to avoid any angry, sarcastic, or caustic remarks to any other human being. But then, that's just me.

21 August: He's not greedy at all either, and he doesn't need much. For example, I just have a crappy 900 baht Nokia cell phone, and the one he bought for himself is even worst than mine, so it's not like he's eyeing me up for that fancy 8000 baht cell.

10 August: I don't pay HIM $3,000/month, no, but everything included, I'd say it's around there. He makes about 25,000 THB off me a month, or thereabouts I'd say. But then add in riding elephants, going to the island, buying clothes, eating, drinking, etc... yeah, I'd say around 90,000 THB a month. Well, that's probably exaggerating. Say 70,000.

Unbelievable. But as long as "I'm happy, he's happy" then I agree 100% - "it's all good".


IтАЩd add that if itтАЩs a change away from Thai ways to Western ways it isnтАЩt usually a change for the better, either.

I agree with that, bao-bao, with some reservations, and with your view generally, but I do disagree with some things.

Most of us would probably look on a relationship as being "long term" after a few years, rather than a few days, but that's only my opinion.

"When in Rome do as the Romans do" seems only fair - if a farang/Thai couple live in Thailand, then the more the farang can at least accept if not adapt to Thai ways then the more chance the relationship probably has of succeeding, just as the reverse holds true for those living in the West. Surely that is true of any couple from different countries, regardless of whether they are gay, there is an age difference, or one is Thai?

The question of family actually moving in "long term" is often brought up with the usual apocryphal stories, but "perhaps we're working with different definitions of "long term"" again - the longest any of my in-laws have ever stayed is overnight, and that's only when they want to get away, briefly, from their own family. Unless you set up home in a "home village" I just cannot see this as being the problem many imagine.

I do not really see the "trips to the temple, traditional religious holidays, events, journeys" as something you either need to "adapt to" or to "try to get the Thai to ignore". Why should you adapt? If you are not into going to the temple together there is no obligation to do so - Thai/Theravadan Buddhism emphasizes that we should all "find our own way" so any sort of evangelism is out and it really is "up to you". Similarly, why should you want to get him to "ignore" his own faith, unless you are trying to convert him? I can't see why "religious differences" should be any sort of a "challenge" at all, for either of you, unless it is you (the farang rather than you personally) who is the one with the problem. Theravadan Buddhism makes very few demands on any way of life and is far easier to get along with than most other religions with such strange and difficult to justify constraints as fish on Fridays, no turning lights on or off on the Sabbath, no eating or drinking in daylight for a month (but as much as you want at night), etc, etc. I think you are seeing problems where none (unless you are a bit of an evangelist yourself) exist.

[thrillbill]

cdnmatt: I see a clearer picture after your last explanation. Though you can afford thousands of baht for your new BF, 3000 is too generous to see if the relationship is "authentic". Think of it this way, would you go to Mac Donalds and pay $100 Canadian dollars for a Big Mac? --Why not? You can afford it? Or give that Indian taxi driver in Toranto $100 Canadian dollars for a two kilometer ride? I would give him??? 1000 or so for his stay with you (just tell him you cannot afford it since you are staying a long time) ;yet, you are still paying for his meals and such. If you want to help him to have a better future, then pay for him to go to college or to a trade school. Next, if you are just 10 years apart, that isn't a big gap - so don't let the age difference keep you from thinking of a future with him. Maybe I am still naive, but if your Thai bf is still molesting you non stop during the night and enjoys your company, it is more than a "business transaction". Usually these guys will do their "thing" and then jump to their cell phone and swithc on their plastic smile when needed.

I met my Thai bf four years ago (he owns a small shop) and was I very cautious...I kept doubting if it was a "real relationship' or just a window of opportunity for him. I made sure I didn't drown him with gifts or cash... and there was a breathing period (separation) of six months which helped me realize that I really enjoyed his company. (I am 11 years older than him--he's now 40 years old.) After three years of being together, I helped him to improve his shop which , of course, he always wanted to do. Though I do not have complex conversations with him about world affairs, I admire his hard work ethic, his honesty, his warm heart, and his devotion to his Buddhist beliefs. We enjoy each other's company (we like to work out at the gym/ hit the clubs in BKK (soi 2) together, travel, cook together...) ---BUT this bonding was a gradual one. True, when we first met, it was physical attraction, but after that the REAL important aspects came together

Good Luck

The lucky part you have is you probably can bring him back to Canada with you if the relationship becomes solid.

My expectation for myself is to not be negative at all and to avoid any angry, sarcastic, or caustic remarks to any other human being. But then, that's just me.On meeting Osama bin Laden, Adolph Hitler or Pol Pot, for example, what sort of positive remarks would you make?

[Brad the Impala]

[quote="Ron-Heng Vancouver":20aumzes]My expectation for myself is to not be negative at all and to avoid any angry, sarcastic, or caustic remarks to any other human being. But then, that's just me.On meeting Osama bin Laden, Adolph Hitler or Pol Pot, for example, what sort of positive remarks would you make?[/quote:20aumzes]

"Thank fuck that you are not Copper Pheel, I was dreading meeting him".

[Smiles]

" ... Well, it's been about three weeks, so I'm giving an update. For all you cynics and nay-sayers, it's working out beautifully, thank you very much. I'm totally in love with him, and I'm 100% certain now that he genuinely loves me as well ... "
Well, for what it's worth, let me tell you a little story which happened to me just a few days ago during a phone call from me to my guy. It rather relates to the above quote from Cdnmatt although it came about quite independently, and I only realized later it might have some interest for Cdnmatt.

To put things in context, I was phoning to wish Suphot a happy birthday and also a little mushy love-talk as I am just about to leave for Thailand, and frankly miss each other quite badly: kind of like that.
(Not trying to be overly mushy here guys, but it may contain some grain of an awareness of how Thais might well think about 'relationships' with farangs ... and probably with each other as far as I know)

Anyway, I (rather nostalgically/dreamily) mentioned something along the lines of " ... Gee honey, I can hardly believe we've been together almost 10 years now, such a happy anniversary coming up ... ".
To that he replied (again, 'something-along-the-lines-of') " ... yes it's been a wonderful 7 years ... ".
From me: " ... seven years? what you mean seven? It's 10 years, not seven ... ".
From him: " ... yes, we know each other 10 years, but I know for sure I love you for seven ... "

Flashback to 'about' seven years ago: I remember receiving a letter from him while I was back in Canada which included a very short line which contained the phrase " ... now I sure I trust your love ... ". It took him three years to make his mind up about this. And of course he was assuming that I would also be taking the same languid journey through time to make my mind up about him. I remember rather glossing over that phrase when I first read it, thinking it just a regular part of a nice love letter, but now ~ after the above phone conversation the other day, and reading this thread ~ I realize that it was literally, not figuratively, true. (In fact I wasn't taking that long, but I can understand, and appreciate, his assumptions).

Can one say they love someone ~ in Cdbmatt's case, it being 'total' love ~ after three weeks? And, even more of a difficulty, can one speak for the other person's love ~ in this case Cdnmatt is 100% sure?
Of course they can, because talk (about 'These Matters') is easy ... and Soap Operas are cheap to produce (just ask CBS).

Cdnmatt seems to feel it's "cynical" to express a certain head-scratching wonderment about those magical three weeks ( " ... For all you cynics and nay-sayers out there ... " ) and our other Canadian friend in this thread piles on in agreement.
I don't doubt that the three weeks were all of that ~ magical that is ~ (mine certainly were, so many years ago), but I'm also pretty certain that Cdnmatt would be very smart indeed if he were to give the 'love' part a bit longer gestation period before declaring the bottom line as been attained (100% ... "so let's move on, shall we").

[Diec]

Well then Smiles, was Pot just checking out your bank book for the first 3 years while you were in love with him?

..... It took him three years to make his mind up about this......

That's quite a coincidence, Smiles. My partner never said he loved me for the first three years we knew each other - as he told me later, there is a big difference between "liking" and "loving".

[Smiles]

"Well then Smiles, was Pot just checking out your bank book for the first 3 years while you were in love with him?"LOL ... If that were the case then I would have expected him to run screaming for the exits a long time before 3 years had gone by. :cheers: :cheers:

By the way Diecy old man ... how's your love life?

[quote="Copper Pheel":3tj0qknj][quote="Ron-Heng Vancouver":3tj0qknj]My expectation for myself is to not be negative at all and to avoid any angry, sarcastic, or caustic remarks to any other human being. But then, that's just me.On meeting Osama bin Laden, Adolph Hitler or Pol Pot, for example, what sort of positive remarks would you make?[/quote:3tj0qknj]"Thank fuck that you are not Copper Pheel, I was dreading meeting him".[/quote:3tj0qknj]What an angry, sarcastic and caustic remark!

Maybe I am still naive, but if your Thai bf is still molesting you non stop during the night and enjoys your company, it is more than a "business transaction".

"Naive"? Maybe not. Probably deluded and easily pleased, though. My partner "molests" me constantly, not just when he is asleep; I take it as meaning that he wants sex rather than necessarily as any indication of love.

[yedo111]

Im afraid this is not the way to fall in love with a boy .

First of all, you should stop giving him money every time you meet, and see if your relationship feels the same when theres no money for him.

A true long lasting relationship is not based on money, you dont need a big IQ to figure that out.

He can be the hottest sexy boy on this planet but without real love you can't expect it to last.

My 23 y.o bf works for his money and study at the university, his family works hard .

Maybe you should take him away from the bar scene and Pattaya and stay with him in his village back home for a month.
You will learn more about his background and family and thats a good thing.

[cdnmatt]

Thanks for all the great comments and some excellent insight guys. Oh, and not like it matters, but it's been about 5 weeks, but just 3 weeks since I last updated this thread. Been meaning to make a better reply, but for now will just comment on one thing:


First of all, you should stop giving him money every time you meet, and see if your relationship feels the same when theres no money for him.

I don't give him money every time anymore, and couldn't even if I wanted to, because he'll refuse it. For example, just last night I tried to give him 4000 baht, and he wouldn't even take 1000 of it. I initially threw so much money at him for a reason, and in hindsight, I'm very glad I did, because it paid off. I wanted him to know right from the beginning that I'm not just some farang looking for the cheapest and best fuck. I've tried this with several other Pattaya boys, but they've never been receptive to it, whereas he was since he's new. That, and we're just naturally a good fit for each other.

I know it's not the greatest way to start a relationship, but he WAS a go-go boy in Sunnee, so how else was I supposed to go about it? Be stingy, and debate with him about how much his life is worth to me? I don't think that would have went over too well, and if I did that, he (rightfully) probably wouldn't have anything to do with me anymore. I wanted him to realize that I'm capable and willing of taking care of him, and looks like I accomplished that quite well. Now as the weeks tick by, things continuously evolve into more of an actual / stable relationship, and I can't see that changing direction anytime soon. And I'm certain one of the main reasons things have evolved so quickly, is because I did treat him so well initially.

It's still working out great though. He has his own key to the place now, and just comes and goes as he wants. Sometimes he sleeps here, sometimes he doesn't, whatever he feels like that day. We've already been to the supermarket, and bought him a bunch of stuff he likes, so he has lots of food here. I unfortunately now only get to sleep with a fan instead of air-con, because the air-con irritates his throat too much, but hey, that's minor. Then I throw him a bit of cash every once in a while to make sure he doesn't go without, and all is well in the world (for now at least).

He's not a money boy though, and I'm certain of that now. For one of many examples, when visiting his family in Kohn Kaen recently he ended up with a couple cracked ribs from playing volleyball. After about five days of pain, he hit me up for some money, because he wanted to get his chest x-rayed. At first I didn't know what the money was for, so I (mistakenly) got a bit cynical, and he was genuinely hurt. It was as if he couldn't contemplate how or why I'd ever think he's a money boy. After that, there's no chance in hell he was taking money from me to go visit the doctor, and the only way he was going was if I personally went with him, and directly paid the bill. After that little episode, I didn't have the heart to tell him going to the doctor for cracked ribs was pointless, so off we went!


He can be the hottest sexy boy on this planet but without real love you can't expect it to last.

Oh no, the love is there. But, I've already bored you guys enough, and I'm tired of writing now. :)

[Smiles]

" ... I don't give him money every time anymore, and couldn't even if I wanted to, because he'll refuse it. For example, just last night I tried to give him 4000 baht, and he wouldn't even take 1000 of it. I initially threw so much money at him for a reason, and in hindsight, I'm very glad I did, because it paid off. I wanted him to know right from the beginning that I'm not just some farang looking for the cheapest and best fuck. I've tried this with several other Pattaya boys, but they've never been receptive to it, whereas he was since he's new. That, and we're just naturally a good fit for each other ... "
So he passed your childish little tests eh?. Great way to start a relationship ... a B+.
Thai guys are much smarter than you are I'm afraid Cdnmatt, which you will soon find out. What the hell, it's a journey anyway.

[cdnmatt]

So he passed your childish little tests eh?. Great way to start a relationship ... a B+.
Thai guys are much smarter than you are I'm afraid Cdnmatt, which you will soon find out. What the hell, it's a journey anyway.

Huh? What the hell is that supposed to mean? No, I don't view him as some lower level of life. If I ever did that, I'm sure he'd pick up on it, and either never have anything to do with me again, or take me for every dollar he could.

When we first met, I was a sex tourist from Canada, and he was a go-go boy in Sunnee, so please explain to me how I was supposed to go about this, oh wise one? Of course I want some indication that he doesn't only care about my wallet, just like he wants some indication that I don't only care about his body. We seem to be proving that to each other quite well.

Of course I want some indication that he doesn't only care about my wallet, just like he wants some indication that I don't only care about his body. We seem to be proving that to each other quite well.

Quite possibly. Unfortunately you seem to be proving the reverse to the rest of us.

As long as you're both happy, who cares? I certainly don't.

[sjaak327]

Let's summarize this a bit.

You met your boyfriend in a boy bar, which makes him a prostitute and you a sex tourist. Nothing wrong with that as such (not my cup of tea, but that's obviously of no concern). But I mention this anyway, because I think that this isn't a good basis to build a long term relationship based upon love and mutual respect.

You know him little over a month, you don't communicate well (at least you don't have a common language in which you could communicate). And you think you have it covered. Fair enough, you might well be right.

I would on the other hand not delude myself like this.

[yedo111]

It's still working out great though. He has his own key to the place now, and just comes and goes as he wants. Sometimes he sleeps here, sometimes he doesn't, whatever he feels like that day.

Well I wish you good luck , as long as you're happy its the most important thing.

Maybe it doesnt bother you that he is not with you every night ? He could be with someone else ?
After all he is a go-go boy....

[Brad the Impala]

It's still working out great though. He has his own key to the place now, and just comes and goes as he wants. Sometimes he sleeps here, sometimes he doesn't, whatever he feels like that day.

Well I wish you good luck , as long as you're happy its the most important thing.

Maybe it doesnt bother you that he is not with you every night ? He could be with someone else ?
After all he is a go-go boy....

It clearly doesn't bother him, but it sounds like it bothers you, and so you want it to bother him!

It clearly doesn't bother him, but it sounds like it bothers you, and so you want it to bother him!It clearly doesn't bother him, he just feels compelled to keep on writing about it.

You met your boyfriend in a boy bar, which makes him a prostitute and you a sex tourist.

Not necessarily the latter (although correct in this case). Most of the customers at present, so I am informed, are residents.

As long as you have an open mind and are prepared to accept others as individuals rather than as stereotypes relationships like this can be as good (or as bad) as any other. I know of more relationships of this type that have succeeded with farangs living here than have failed (discounting those which only lasted a few days or weeks). "Love and mutual respect" and trust, common interests, etc, is more important to some of us than past employment.

cdnmatt, whatever I and others think is of far less importance than what you think. If you are happy with things as they are then you are doing better than the majority of those posting here!

[Smiles]

" ... so please explain to me how I was supposed to go about this, oh wise one? Of course I want some indication that he doesn't only care about my wallet, just like he wants some indication that I don't only care about his body ... "
I thought I already did (earlier on) ... time.
3 weeks, 5 weeks, 8 weeks. They are of no consequence for finding out anything about a person which is meaningful. You want it 'meaningful' don't you?

About the wiseguy comment. You might want to check out your heading for this topic, plus the first line in your opening post: " ... Advice for long term needed ... Was wondering if some of you Thailand verterans would be willing to provide some advice ... "

But, carry on ...

[ceejay]

Well, I am not a veteran of any LTR in Thailand, so I don't know what I'm talking about (not a bar to having an opinion on this board :drunken: )

But I know a man who does.....

If you haven't found it already, you might find something of interest in "Rice Queen Diary", definitely one of the better Thailand gay blogs. Perhaps you could start with this post:
http://www.ricequeendiary.com/there-are-no-equals.html

[whitemouse]

And SF farang, no, I'm hardly a control freak. If anything, I'm the total opposite. I get pissed off when people aren't themselves

This has got to be the most ironic sentence in the history of Sawadtee.

[whitemouse]

Looking back now, Brad The Impala (Surfcrest) always sided with Matt, always defended him when someone questioned Matt's credibility.
When I took on Matt's invitation to visit him in Khom Kaen, Surfcrest, then admin accused me of being a troll, and he accused me of using VPN, while I posted from Pattaya, True Move 4G, no VPN no Proxy, he lied to everyone here. Admin sees IP if each post, he deliberately lied. Why did he do this?
Surfcrest was on a mission to discredit me, he basically rushed to Matt's rescue.

Looking back, it seems Matt is closely related to Surfcrest, also known as Brad The Impala.
Check this screen cap, one of many, many similar rescue efforts:

5381

[whitemouse]

And this works both ways, when Surfcrest (Brad The Impala) was called out, and needed 'support', he could always count on Matt:

5382

Matt's newby advise thread should be mandatory reading for every foreigner who is considering a relationship with Thai guy.
Many great posts and advise by Sawadtee users, most usernames now appear as 'Said', probably due to move to new platform. But really useful advise for newbie!

[cdnmatt]

Oh fuck, the mouse dude is on drugs again, and angry because I wouldn't meet him.

Pro-trip: Life changes in 7 years!

[whitemouse]

Oh fuck, the mouse dude is on drugs again, and angry because I wouldn't meet him.

Pro-trip: Life changes in 7 years!

Life changes, no doubt, but newbie advise given to cdnmatt in this thread is just as valid today.
Matt, you will never meet me, nor anyone else because you do not exist. But keep up the writing, I genuinely enjoy it!

[christianpfc]

In 2009 (the year of my coming out, and SF farang whose blog played a vital role in that but is now gone commented as well in this thread):

After re-reading the posts on this topic, especially that of Gone Fishing, I do smell a troll in the personna of cdnmatt. He seems to be milking his post more than Elsie the Cow, whose husband was Elmer the Bull(shitter).
and milking and milking....

At least Matt went from age 27 in 2009 to 36 in 2017, whereas Beachlover stayed in his "early twenties" for the decade (?) he blessed us with his presence on the board.

[a447]

It's certainly true that around May, when surfcrest was starting different threads accusing me of God knows what, finally leading to his decision to ban of me, that he was supported by Brad the impala and Matt. They took turns posting the same shit, backed each other up, post after post, and threw "likes" at each other at every turn. It was hilarious.

No prizes for figuring out that we are not talking about 3 separate entities here.

But hey, surfcrest owned the board so was allowed to be hypocritical and flaunt the rules. I mean, he could hardly turn around and ban himself, could be.

Ownership has its privileges. That I accept 100%.

[whitemouse]

But hey, surfcrest owned the board so was allowed to be hypocritical and flaunt the rules. I mean, he could hardly turn around and ban himself, could be.

Ownership has its privileges.

I remember when he kicked you out, the last act of his administration. By kicking you he did damage to this board, perhaps intentional, since he knew he was out, and board's future wasnt a concern for him. You could almost say it was deliberate sabotage, banning a long time contributor harms board, other members will be discouraged to post, and every board depends on quality members. Everyone knows how bruce_nyc's startup ended due to lack of posters.

I miss beachlover, he was lots of fun.

[a447]

No, he didn't damage the board by kicking me out - he damaged it by cutting fountainhall loose. We lost someone who could post with great authority on all aspects of Asia. His vast knowledge and experience have been lost.

And he also damaged his own reputation by doing what he said he would never do.

I normally don't bother to read resurrected threads, especially ones from so long ago, but this one has been very interesting indeed!

Here we have the start of Matt's fairytales. In the beginning everyone, including myself, thought he may be telling the truth, although I must admit I became a little sceptical when he described himself as a 27 year old "decent looking guy.... with good hygiene". (Lol) My first thought was, what's a guy like that doing paying for sex?

It didn't take long for his story to unravel.

But who should be by his side, defending him all the way?

"Brad", of course!

[Surfcrest]

They took turns posting the same shit, backed each other up, post after post, and threw "likes" at each other at every turn. It was hilarious.



That's because I genuinely like Brad the Impala. You are an asshole. You're the kind of guy I'd take outside and punch the crap out of, cause that's what us real Canadians do. Unlike whitemouse...the stalker.

Surfcrest

[whitemouse]

That's because I genuinely like Brad the Impala. You are an asshole. You're the kind of guy I'd take outside and punch the crap out of, cause that's what us real Canadians do. Unlike whitemouse...the stalker.

Surfcrest

Hi Bradley, how are you?

[a447]

Surfcrest, your comments, and those of your "accomplices" are there for all to see - across numerous threads over a number of years. People are free to put 2 and 2 together and draw their own conclusions. Up to them.

Your reply above, threatening violence, reminds me of Neal's response when he heard something he didn't like.

And it merely confirms what I said.

[frequent]

"Brad", of course!That would be the same Brad who in post after post defended you doggedly throughout 2016 would it - until he realised in 2017 that he was wrong all along and you are just completely self-obsessed if not deluded? Your entire post - of which I can be bothered to highlight only a tiny portion - is a monument to the self-serving way in which you so often write

[frequent]

You are an asshole. You're the kind of guy I'd take outside and punch the crap out of, cause that's what us real Canadians do.I don't think I could join you in that Surfcrest - I can't stand seeing a grown man cry :yahoo_mini:

[a447]

That would be the same Brad who in post after post defended you doggedly throughout 2016 would it ....

Yes, that's right. The same brad who, like surfcrest, "defended" me.

And the same Brad who miraculously had an epiphany.

And it occured at exactly the same time as surfcrest.

And on the exact same topic.

And they both did an about face.

In the same thread.

At the same time.

Yep, that's the one.


I can't stand seeing a grown man cry

Don't worry about it. He'll get over it.

Lol

[Moses]

Yep, that's the one.


again: presumptions, presumptions... quality of presumptions is the same as before...

[Manforallseasons]

Surf you do a447 an injustice by calling her an asshole she is infact a woman with one vantage point which is down on her knees whilst it be in Good Boys or complaining of board abuse or prancing into any cat fight with great glee, she references the dearly departed "fountainhall" who is much brighter which is no great feat, F.H. is a needy child who when he feels is not getting his way simply picks up his toys and goes elsewhere however, as his elsewhere has been now limited to Gaybutton's board where he has become a dutiful member fearing no place else to go to get liked on his posts thus partially filling the void of gratification as not being able to get an errection for a decade.

[a447]

Gosh, mfas, was it something I said?

Lol

[bobsaigon2]

Reading this thread from the 2009 beginning, it's clear that the tone, the tenor of the board has not changed remarkably over time. It's also clear that Matt's self-proclaimed omniscience that allowed the catastrophic ending of the relationship with his true love bar boy has not in any way limited his creative writing abilities. We look forward to many more of his TinTin-like adventures, perhaps including some that would include meetings with the other trolls of the board. That would be fun to read. Well done, Matt.

[sglad]

Please delete.

[Smiles]

Surf you do a447 an injustice by calling her an asshole she is infact a woman with one vantage point which is down on her knees whilst it be in Good Boys or complaining of board abuse or prancing into any cat fight with great glee, she references the dearly departed "fountainhall" who is much brighter which is no great feat, F.H. is a needy child who when he feels is not getting his way simply picks up his toys and goes elsewhere however, as his elsewhere has been now limited to Gaybutton's board where he has become a dutiful member fearing no place else to go to get liked on his posts thus partially filling the void of gratification as not being able to get an errection for a decade.
Spoken like a man who's only claim to fame is to get seriously inebriated and kick toilet doors in. How do ya like me?