How not to behave in a Thai Bar...

I got this from the Stickman website.
(Comments next post below)
(ps anyone can translate the Thai comments?)
[youtube:24c8k13l]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkEXfp-JTTE[/youtube:24c8k13l]

My first reaction is the guy was asking for it.

I think the kick in the face was a bit overboard though.

Of course, in the US if any bar owner tried this sort of thing he would be criminally charged with battery and probably sued.
Having been on the receiving end of irrational customers I can vouch for the urge to punch the jerk in the face. But then our laws and legal systems would see to it that I would be "brought to justice" no matter what the provocation.

Maybe we need to learn to just behave ourselves in Thailand?

What a wonderful video. I'd like to hire that young Thai man and take him on a tour of bars throughout the Kingdom.

His title would be Chief Vermin Control Officer or English Riffraff (redundant, I know) Dispatcher.

I'm not absolutely sure what the Thai woman was saying to the boy who hit the pommie jerk, but I think it may have been a health warning for the young man :"Now be sure you wash your hands before using the toilet."

and the farang was faking death.

Dumb to make a scene, behind the smiles are some fast fists and feet. The national sport is Muay Thai. Nine times out of ten, expect more than one Thai to take up the fight and they hit until the loser is down and out.

Bless you for sharing this - it quite made our afternoon here in Dongtan. My only concern is that it might give my Thai boy ideas.....

[Beachlover]

lol drunk dope. He sort of got what he was asking for.

Technically, it is not self defence because he did not hit first and was not an immediate threat (all he did was bang on the table and offer verbal abuse).

Hope he was alright afterwards. He looked pretty unresponsive at the end.

The Thais are very good at making you feel important and being polite to you and this makes them very charming. But I think a lot of falang take this to mean they will always be soft and submissive to your whims... which is far from the truth.

Just another larger lout with a big (full of booze) mouth.....He got exactly what he was asking for, if you play with fire you get burnt especially in foreign ports where you have little understanding of local culture. Thank God one very seldom sees that kind of behaviour in the gay establishments as it seems to be more confined to the hetro hang outs, not that it never happens in a gay place! ......

:cheers:

[lo-so]

Spot on Beachlover. He made a big mistake in using physical force first by banging the counter - the Thai beside him was seemingly directing him that if hewanted more alcohol then he just simply needed to order it. The farang upped the anti and their cards were better,

The Thai female shouts in the background would seem to be, initially following his felling, to the order that it was enough i.e., stop and then to get him out - interestingly but perhaps not surprisingly getting him out was exclaimed without any consideration of his then physical state - they presumably would rather he was at least off the premises before the BIB might become involved...

Demonstrations of overt physical and indeed on occasions verbal aggression are more than likely in these scenarios(bars etc..) to be met by at least an equal response - Straight or Gay bars irrespective . He was perhaps however. whether by design (unlikely) or not, sensible to have stayed down on the ground until things cooled off.

In vino veritas

Some English when abroad still behave as if they still had an empire.
Time and time again I see this behaviour.
It shocks them when something (like in the film) happens.

I have no sympathy...he clearly asked for it and lost.

Hahaha.........a stupid pommie asshole gets what he deserves. Too often these idiots feel that the the gentle Thai ways are an indication of servitude and weakness. More fool him.
An Englishman I know who lives there in Bang Khwau, he's an arrogant wanker, would be a prime candidate for this wake up call.

Kenc, she told them "enough, enough .....no more kicking .....take him out".

A similar reaction to most bar owners anywhere, I would guess, particularly after his threat (the opening words on the recording) "I'll fucking have this place turned over tomorrow" and his open invitation "who wants it?". Would a Thai have got better treatment, under similar circumstances, in Britain, Australia, or anywhere else? Somehow I doubt it, nor would they deserve it.


The national sport is Muay Thai.

I would imagine that takraw is far more popular than Muay Thai, and soccer possibly more popular than that.


Nine times out of ten, expect more than one Thai to take up the fight and they hit until the loser is down and out.

Why not? The same generalisation could apply anywhere.

I think you've all clearly jumped to conclusions. The guy was actually from a pest control company who the bar had invited to come and take a look at their cockroach infestation. When he said he could "have the place done over tomorrow", he meant he could have it fumigated. He then makes several unsuccesful attempts to swat a couple of cockroaches on the bar, and is then innocently set upon by what can only be described as Thai thugs.
I hope he made a quick recovery.

I think you've all clearly jumped to conclusions. The guy was actually from a pest control company who the bar had invited to come and take a look at their cockroach infestation. When he said he could "have the place done over tomorrow", he meant he could have it fumigated. He then makes several unsuccesful attempts to swat a couple of cockroaches on the bar, and is then innocently set upon by what can only be described as Thai thugs.
I hope he made a quick recovery.

How very strange.................

:cheers:

[francois]

Regardless, a drunk is a drunk, and a sucker punch/kick is a sucker punch/kick. The response was far in excess of the transgression. The kick or punch could have killed the farang. Now, if it was a farang doing same same to a Thai, what do you think the outcome? Ask the police.

[Smiles]

" ... The kick or punch could have killed the farang ... "
I doubt it. From the video I would hardly be surprised if that that drunken skank hasn't been there many times before. :bounce:
He's probably used to it by now, and will hardly remember he details. Just another night out on the town for that type.

[francois]

" ... The kick or punch could have killed the farang ... "
I doubt it.

Dont' doubt it Smiles, death from a punch/kick is not uncommon. google and ye shall find.

But the questions remains, what of a video of two farang sucker punching and kicking a drunk Thai? What is your defense? Oh, he was cursing and slamming the bar? I don't ever recalling seeing or hearing that in a bar, do you?

The funniest part of this thread is seeing a couple of Australian posters accusing the English of being ill-mannered, loud, and not knowing how to behave - specifically of being "wankers" and "assholes". A case of the kettle calling the pot black I'd say.

I also note 2 Canadians saying much the same - can't comment on Canadians though because my experience has been that they're so boring I don't even notice them.

As for the incident itself: just a normal night-out in Glasgow :drunken:

:cheers: :cheers:

The response was far in excess of the transgression.

I think the response was about right for stupidity. Read one book about Thailand and you'd understand how completely inappropriate even losing your temper, much less being physically aggressive is. If this had occurred in a US bar I wouldn't feel sorry for him but the fact that he got that aggressive in Thailand (with a Thai), is what totally pushes it over the edge for me.

I've never gotten aggressive from drinking...I believe that people just become more of what they really are when they are intoxicated. I just get giggly and talk too much for my own good (you really *shouldn't* spill your guts to most people).

[Smiles]

" ... As for the incident itself: just a normal night-out in Glasgow ... "
Exactly.


" ... What is your defense? ... "
Why should I offer a 'defense'? The guy was a utter jerk (and a total fool to do what he did in a Thai bar, surrounded by Thais). Given the behavior as well as the venue, what on earth was he thinking? That no one would call him on it?
In Swindon or Glasgow he'd have a nasty concussion. In Thailand he could easily have been killed. All he ended up with is embarrassment (on the www!!) by the looks of it ... but I'm sure he wouldn't recognize that if it ~ for instance ~ kicked him in his thick head.
Sorry Franny, no sympathy, nor pseudo-sociological analysis here.

I just get giggly and talk too much for my own good (you really *shouldn't* spill your guts to most people).


Can't tell if you're giggling, but judging from this post I'd say you're already well into Happy Hour.




As for the incident itself: just a normal night-out in Glasgow :drunken:

:cheers: :cheers:

And an Englishman in a Glaswegian bar drunk and mouthing off to a Scot would get a kiss on both cheeks and a free round of drinks, right?

Especially as many Australians are descended from the thieves, murderers and rapists that were deported to Australia from England in the 19th century.

you need to get your facts straight.
the first convicts arrived Australia in 1788 (18th century). They were not murderers or rapists, those criminals would would have been hanged back in Britain. deportation was not a special form of punishment for serious criminals, it was just a method to overcome overcrowding in the gaols and prison hulks in Britain. most of the criminals who were deported had committed crimes such as perjury, fraud, forgery, sacrilege, highway robbery, theft, burglary, housebreaking, and stealing. the offences were often very minor, such as stealing a loaf of bread. one of my ancestors was deported for stealing a handkerchief.
in any case, whats the relevance of criminal activity in ones past, especially going back 10 generations? in Australia, having convict ancestors is not seen as something to be ashamed of, more the opposite.
i am sure if any of us went back 10 generations, there would be a few skeletons in the closet (some dont need to go back that far!)
http://www.cultureandrecreation.gov.au/ ... /convicts/ (http://www.cultureandrecreation.gov.au/articles/convicts/)

[Smiles]

" ... most of the criminals who were deported had committed crimes such as perjury, fraud, forgery, sacrilege, highway robbery, theft, burglary ... "
Buggery too. A lot of buggery.

judging from this post I'd say you're already well into Happy Hour.

Just got back from having a Kobe burger and a cosmo. Was delightful.

" ... most of the criminals who were deported had committed crimes such as perjury, fraud, forgery, sacrilege, highway robbery, theft, burglary ... "
Buggery too. A lot of buggery.

well, some traditions have been carried on. but if they had transported everybody in Britain who committed buggery, the public schools and houses of parliament would be empty.

[Impulse]

The funniest part of this thread is seeing a couple of Australian posters accusing the English of being ill-mannered, loud, and not knowing how to behave - specifically of being "wankers" and "assholes". A case of the kettle calling the pot black I'd say.

I also note 2 Canadians saying much the same - can't comment on Canadians though because my experience has been that they're so boring I don't even notice them.

As for the incident itself: just a normal night-out in Glasgow :drunken:

:cheers: :cheers: For fooks sake man,you duuunt like Canadians either duuu ya now?Yuuu saaay weer boring.I duunt give a shite wuuut yuu thank.See what Smiles has to saaaa! :drunken: Trainspotting was a guuud Scotish movie.

For the record I think the Ausssies are one of the greatest and hospitable people on the planet


Have to agree that Aussies seem to have shaken off the curse of their ancestry. Almost every Aussie I've met has been charming and pleasant, and more importantly, they bathe daily. Obviously the connection to England has been forever broken.

Regardless, a drunk is a drunk, and a sucker punch/kick is a sucker punch/kick. The response was far in excess of the transgression. The kick or punch could have killed the farang. Now, if it was a farang doing same same to a Thai, what do you think the outcome? Ask the police.

I don't know if I would call it a "sucker punch" - he had just asked "who wants it"!!



I believe that people just become more of what they really are when they are intoxicated. I just get giggly and talk too much for my own good (you really *shouldn't* spill your guts to most people).

Aah ..... now I understand why you post as you do.

As for the incident itself: just a normal night-out in Glasgow

And an Englishman in a Glaswegian bar drunk and mouthing off to a Scot would get a kiss on both cheeks and a free round of drinks, right?[/quote:32eq3cc4]

I think you have missed the point entirely haven't you? Or perhaps you're one of those humourless Canadians I mentioned earlier - talking of which.............


[quote=scottish-guy]" ... As for the incident itself: just a normal night-out in Glasgow ... "
Exactly.

Perhaps Smiles can reveal how many nights out in Glasgow he has experienced - I mean surely he's not just talking out his arse? Heaven forbid!

:compress:

" ... most of the criminals who were deported had committed crimes such as perjury, fraud, forgery, sacrilege, highway robbery, theft, burglary ... "
Buggery too. A lot of buggery.

.......... which continued on the boat no doubt.

And all those tales of the ship's crew drinking piss - surely that's not too far removed from what people today call golden showers?

The late George Melly, summed up the nautical life in 4 words "Rum, Bum, and Concertina"

Hello Sailor!

:cheers:

[francois]

I don't know if I would call it a "sucker punch" - he had just asked "who wants it"!!
[

Mon Dieu! I thought a "sucker punch" was some sorte of alcoholic beverage with a kick to it! Everytime I ask for one I awake with a terrible headache.

Read one book about Thailand and you'd understand how completely inappropriate even losing your temper, much less being physically aggressive is. If this had occurred in a US bar I wouldn't feel sorry for him but the fact that he got that aggressive in Thailand (with a Thai), is what totally pushes it over the edge for me.

I wonder if you read the book which tells you that Thailand has the highest incidence of shootings and gun-related crime in the world (except, possibly, Columbia)?

Or the one about Thailand consistently having one of the top 10 total prison populations, despite its relatively small population, with most of the offenders being imprisoned for violent, drug-related or gun-related offences (or a combination of them)?

Let's not talk about the number of Thai business and political disputes that are resolved via drive-by assassination attempts.

[Beachlover]

Read one book about Thailand and you'd understand how completely inappropriate even losing your temper, much less being physically aggressive is. If this had occurred in a US bar I wouldn't feel sorry for him but the fact that he got that aggressive in Thailand (with a Thai), is what totally pushes it over the edge for me.

I wonder if you read the book which tells you that Thailand has the highest incidence of shootings and gun-related crime in the world (except, possibly, Columbia)?

Or the one about Thailand consistently having one of the top 10 total prison populations, despite its relatively small population, with most of the offenders being imprisoned for violent, drug-related or gun-related offences (or a combination of them)?

Thais are good at keeping their cool and smiling. But when they snap, they can really lose their temper and be quite illogical in their actions. It's kind of a double edged sword.

Thailand also has the highest number of penis amputations (angry wives) lol. That's a disturbing reason to be gay in Thailand.

I can't agree with many posters in this thread. All the guy did was hit the bar. He never struck anybody. If you agree with Dubya about striking first then this is suitable. He was trying to buy a drink when he was clearly over the limit. The Thais were about to provide it if he had just shut up.

Clearly he had enough and didn't need anymore. so they serve him until he is a mess and then kick his face in afterwards. I am not condoning his behavior for one moment but the bar staff appears to be scum to me. What bar in the west serves their customers and then after they are drink beats them until they pass out and moves them bfore the cops come?

Let's not talk about the number of Thai business and political disputes that are resolved via drive-by assassination attempts.

Let's do. Do you have a statistic?

Let's not talk about the number of Thai business and political disputes that are resolved via drive-by assassination attempts.

Let's do. Do you have a statistic?Sadly you seem to have escaped. Maybe that's a reflection of your actual vs. your claimed success.

As thought: you have no statistics, do you?

It's a topic widely discussed. I believe I first read about it in Culture Shock: Thailand. A simple Google search http://tinyurl.com/mpvzuo will turn up over 20 pages of results for assassinations and attempted assassinations over the years, as well as studies such as this one http://www.article2.org/mainfile.php/0402/188/

Maybe those rose-colored spectacles you affect should be taken off?

Ah, you're talking about vice and semi-legal businesses. Mafiosi knocking off mafiosi. It is not so common in legitimate business.

Ah, you're talking about vice and semi-legal businesses. Mafiosi knocking off mafiosi. It is not so common in legitimate business.You claim to have been involved in a legitimate business? But you're such a total asshole!

Kenc, she told them "enough, enough .....no more kicking .....take him out"
A similar reaction to most bar owners anywhere, I would guess, particularly after his threat (the opening words on the recording) "I'll fucking have this place turned over tomorrow" and his open invitation "who wants it?". Would a Thai have got better treatment, under similar circumstances, in Britain, Australia, or anywhere else? Somehow I doubt it, nor would they deserve it....
Well thanks Mr Fish. I was wondering what the Thai attitude was to all the mayhem. Notice that the other Thais don't get involved until Mr. Jerk starts getting physical and banging his fist on the bar.
Like I said, I've been on the recieving end of such tirades and its all you can do to keep from blowing the jerk's head off (if you had a gun). You know you can't react but your blood just boils.

But yeah, the guy was sucker punched, from the side by a kid who couldn't keep his cool.
So give the kid a medal! :cheers:

(edits: having trouble with the damn quotes function...ughh....)

Ah, you're talking about vice and semi-legal businesses. Mafiosi knocking off mafiosi. It is not so common in legitimate business.You claim to have been involved in a legitimate business? But you're such a total asshole!

Most successful businessmen are assholes. Nice guys never get anywhere. Didn't you know that?

[Beachlover]

I can't agree with many posters in this thread. All the guy did was hit the bar. He never struck anybody. If you agree with Dubya about striking first then this is suitable. He was trying to buy a drink when he was clearly over the limit. The Thais were about to provide it if he had just shut up.

Clearly he had enough and didn't need anymore. so they serve him until he is a mess and then kick his face in afterwards. I am not condoning his behavior for one moment but the bar staff appears to be scum to me. What bar in the west serves their customers and then after they are drink beats them until they pass out and moves them bfore the cops come?

This does actually happen in the West with overzealous or bad security guards... not just isolated to the Thais. The difference, is in most developed countries there's more likely to be an investigation and charges laid.

[Brad the Impala]

I wonder if you read the book which tells you that Thailand has the highest incidence of shootings and gun-related crime in the world (except, possibly, Columbia)?

Is that the book that forgot to mention that actually South Africa has the highest incidence, and that is only of the relatively small number of countries that keep statistics!





Or the one about Thailand consistently having one of the top 10 total prison populations, despite its relatively small population, with most of the offenders being imprisoned for violent, drug-related or gun-related offences (or a combination of them)?

The prison population percentage against total population does not even show Thailand in the top twenty. However these figures are not necessarily a good indication of lawlessness in the country, as for example Singapore has a higher proportion of it's population in jail than does Thailand , suggesting that a country's attitude towards crime and criminals will also influence the statistics.

Most businessmen are assholes.A self-confessed asshole. :idea: I'm sure that future posts referring to you will begin "Self-confessed asshole Beach Bunny ... " where necessary linking back to this thread.

Only if you sign off as a "self-confessed ignoramus and mental deficient".

Is that the book that forgot to mention that actually South Africa has the highest incidence, and that is only of the relatively small number of countries that keep statistics!

No, Brad, I'm not familiar with that book. The book I read (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_gun_vio_hom_hom_wit_fir-crime-gun-violence-homicides-firearms) was the United Nations Survey on Crime Trends and the Operations of Criminal Justice Systems (1998 - 2000) - outdated admittedly, but probably the most authoritative readily available. Your book probably refers to murders, while I specifically referred to "shootings and gun-related crime".

During that period 79.58 % of homicides in Thailand were with a firearm, while in South Africa (2nd) it was 59.2 % and Colombia (3rd) 51.7 %. South Africa has twice as many murders, admittedly, but Thailand wins as far as the gun being the murder weapon of choice is concerned.

In the overall homicide rankings, Thailand is only 4th, with 41.4 per 100,000, with Guatemala 3rd (43.9), Columbia 2nd (114.5) and South Africa 1st (125.9)


The prison population percentage against total population does not even show Thailand in the top twenty. However these figures are not necessarily a good indication of lawlessness in the country, as for example Singapore has a higher proportion of it's population in jail than does Thailand , suggesting that a country's attitude towards crime and criminals will also influence the statistics.

While I agree with your sentiments , Brad, I do not agree with your figures. According to the same source (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_pri_per_cap-crime-prisoners-per-capita), Thailand has only recently dropped from the Top 10 (where it has been "consistently") to 17th spot, with 340 per 100,000 (Singapore is in 12th at 388). A number of other sources, such as the Economist, still have Thailand in 9th place as they include those held in custody but not yet tried and sentenced.

Keep taking the tablets, Brad ....

[Brad the Impala]

[quote="Brad the Impala":24xpocmu]Is that the book that forgot to mention that actually South Africa has the highest incidence, and that is only of the relatively small number of countries that keep statistics!

No, Brad, I'm not familiar with that book. The book I read (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_gun_vio_hom_hom_wit_fir-crime-gun-violence-homicides-firearms) was the United Nations Survey on Crime Trends and the Operations of Criminal Justice Systems (1998 - 2000) - outdated admittedly, but probably the most authoritative readily available. Your book probably refers to murders, while I specifically referred to "shootings and gun-related crime".[/quote:24xpocmu]

Certainly outdated, and hardly either the most recent or the most authorative given that the same source's statistics for the periods of 2001 - 2002, 2003 - 2004, 2005 - 2006 are available here. Link (http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-analysis/United-Nations-Surveys-on-Crime-Trends-and-the-Operations-of-Criminal-Justice-Systems.html) Strangely the United Nations site has no statistics for your specifically referred to "shootings and gun related crime".

In any case the link that you provided is not to the United Nations site itself, but to Nationmaster.com which describes itself as "a massive central data source and a handy way to graphically compare nations. NationMaster is a vast compilation of data from such sources as the CIA World Factbook, UN, and OECD!" It too has no category for "shootings and gun related crime". Both sites confirm that, as I pointed out previously, both South Africa and Colombia have more murders by gun than Thailand, of the limited number of countries that provide statistics. Nationmaster Death by firearm (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_gun_vio_hom_fir_hom_rat_per_100_pop-rate-per-100-000-pop)




[quote="Brad the Impala":24xpocmu]The prison population percentage against total population does not even show Thailand in the top twenty. However these figures are not necessarily a good indication of lawlessness in the country, as for example Singapore has a higher proportion of it's population in jail than does Thailand , suggesting that a country's attitude towards crime and criminals will also influence the statistics.

While I agree with your sentiments , Brad, I do not agree with your figures. According to the same source (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_pri_per_cap-crime-prisoners-per-capita), Thailand has only recently dropped from the Top 10 (where it has been "consistently") to 17th spot, with 340 per 100,000 (Singapore is in 12th at 388). A number of other sources, such as the Economist, still have Thailand in 9th place as they include those held in custody but not yet tried and sentenced.

Keep taking the tablets, Brad ....[/quote:24xpocmu]

The same source being the 1998 -2000 statistics? From which Thailand has recently dropped from the top ten? Say about 2001?!! So you accept that by your own reference source, Thailand is not now "in the top ten", as you categorically stated earlier but actually 17th. That same source, that you find so reliable, actually notes that there are no prisoners in Zimbabwe!! GF's reliable source (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_pri_per_cap-crime-prisoners-per-capita)

Personally I think that a more reliable, and certainly up to date, source, of the figures on population in prisons, is the annual World Prison Population List prepared by the Department of Law, Kings College, London. It also identifies the sources of the information by country. As I pointed out earlier, by head of population it doesn't even have Thailand in the top twenty, or should that be thirty, although it does note that there are prisoners in Zimbabwe, after all!!

World Prison Population (http://www.kcl.ac.uk/depsta/law/research/icps/downloads/wppl-8th_41.pdf)

Tablets? Would you like some?

Edited to make links accessible.

I can't agree with many posters in this thread. All the guy did was hit the bar. He never struck anybody. If you agree with Dubya about striking first then this is suitable. He was trying to buy a drink when he was clearly over the limit. The Thais were about to provide it if he had just shut up.

Clearly he had enough and didn't need anymore. so they serve him until he is a mess and then kick his face in afterwards. I am not condoning his behavior for one moment but the bar staff appears to be scum to me. What bar in the west serves their customers and then after they are drink beats them until they pass out and moves them bfore the cops come?

This does actually happen in the West with overzealous or bad security guards... not just isolated to the Thais. The difference, is in most developed countries there's more likely to be an investigation and charges laid.

You would be prosecuted for assault and serving somebody that is obviously intoxicated where I come from. Both of these activities are illegal and would result in loss of your liquor license. I believe in personal responsibility but have seen in Thailand where they get people so drunk that it does go that far. They don't show the part where they relieve this old drunken fuktwat of his money after putting him out the door though.

Assault is disgraceful whatever the case is. I used to be a much more violent person when i was drunk and at one point was attacked by a bartender in Japan. The police were easily able to identify me as I was covered in blood. They took me to the station and later confirmed none of it was mine. I wasn't charged as many witnesses said the management was out of line.

This guy just wouldn't stop. His mistake was coming after me through a hole in the bar that put his head at kicking level. I would hope that people wouldn't think I was right in that instance just because I beat on some drunken kunt. He was more drunk than I was.

The right thing to do was not to try to sell this guy more drinks but ask him to leave.

Brad, I think it is glasses you need rather than tablets.

I cannot check any of your links, as for some reason they do not work for me, but you have already answered most of your points yourself.


Strangely the United Nations site has no statistics for your specifically referred to "shootings and gun related crime".

Actually it has, however you have to combine a number of statistics such as homicides, shootings, gun related crime, etc, which is why I gave a link to a site which has already done this for you.


In any case the link that you provided is not to the United Nations site itself, but to Nationmaster.com which ......is a vast compilation of data from such sources as the CIA World Factbook, UN, and OECD!"

Quite correct, Brad. If you look at each table, however, it tells you the specific source; the source for gunviolence, etc, was Wikipedia whose source was the UN Survey I referred to; the source for the prison population was the International Centre for Prison Studies - the same "more reliable, and certainly up to date, source" which you refer to yourself!!.


.....as I pointed out previously, both South Africa and Colombia have more murders by gun than Thailand, of the limited number of countries that provide statistics.

So what?? "As I (also!) pointed out previously" I was not refering to "murders by gun" - this can be misleading as what one country calls murder another calls manslaughter. By looking at homicides using firearms you get a clearer picture (though apparently not one you wish to see, as if you did you would not be able to disagree with me).

Our mutual source's Highest to Lowest (http://www.kcl.ac.uk/depsta/law/research/icps/worldbrief/wpb_stats.php?area=all&category=wb_poptotal) chart lists 218 countries, from the USA with 2,310,984 prisoners down to San Marino with 1 - just how many more countries do you need?


So you accept that .....Thailand is not now "in the top ten", as you categorically stated earlier but actually 17th.....Personally I think that a more reliable, and certainly up to date, source, of the figures on population in prisons, is the annual World Prison Population List prepared by the Department of Law, Kings College, London. It also identifies the sources of the information by country. As I pointed out earlier, by head of population it doesn't even have Thailand in the top twenty, or should that be thirty,

Brad, I have never said it was "now in the top ten", categorically or otherwise; I said it was "consistently" in the top 10 which is a totally different thing. Despite that technicality, however, according to our mutual source's (http://www.kcl.ac.uk/depsta/law/research/icps/worldbrief/wpb_stats.php?area=all&category=wb_poptotal) figures as at 6 december 2007, however, Thailand is in SEVENTH place!!!

Don't bother with any apology, Brad, it would be so out of character.

[Brad the Impala]

Unfortunately GF you don't have the intellectual integrity to engage in a meaningful debate, but I should have known that!

I have corrected the links, so that anyone interested can judge for themselves. You remind me of a politician wriggling on the hook of their own dishonesty. Just why were you using out of date statistics to support your statement?! Possibly because the equally available current statistics contradicted your statements?

It's a rhetorical question.

Unfortunately GF you don't have the intellectual integrity to engage in a meaningful debate, but I should have known that!

I have corrected the links, so that anyone interested can judge for themselves. You remind me of a politician wriggling on the hook of their own dishonesty. Just why were you using out of date statistics to support your statement?! Possibly because the equally available current statistics contradicted your statements?

It's a rhetorical question.

OK Brad, gloves off, no more Mr Nice Guy, you are either a bare faced liar or you are unable to read simple numbers.

The top 7 places in my link above to the latest Highest to Lowest list compiled by your authority, the "annual World Prison Population List prepared by the Department of Law, Kings College, London." is copied as follows (top 7 only):

You are here: Home > Schools > Law > Research > International Centre for Prison Studies > World Prison Brief
World Prison Brief

Highest to Lowest

Prison Brief - Highest to Lowest Rates
Entire world - Prison Population Totals
For more details about the figures of any country, please click on the name of that country
1 United States of America
2,310,984
2 China
1,565,771
3 Russian Federation
889,948
4 Brazil
440,013
5 India
373,271
6 Mexico
222,671
7 Thailand
166,338


These figures are given as being correct as at 6 December 2007.

Your link, to the same source, gives the latest available figures by continent / country, rather than in numerical order (and does not give a numerical order). Having read through the entire list (6 pages) and extracted the top 7 countries they are as follows (with the date of the data in brackets):

1. United States of America 2,293,157 (as at 12/07)
2. China 1,565,771 (as at 12/05, with another possible 850,000 unidentified prisoners)
3. Russian Federation 891,738 (as at 11/08)
4. Brazil 440,013 (as at 06/08)
5. India 373,271 (as at 08/07)
6. Mexico 222,671 (as at 09/08)
7. Thailand 166,338 (as at 02/08)

You said that "Thailand is not now "in the top ten", as you categorically stated earlier but actually 17th." Well, name the other 10 countries that I and your reference have missed out.

You said that I was "using out of date statistics to support (my) statement .....Possibly because the equally available current statistics contradicted (my) statements". Where?

You said that I lacked "the intellectual integrity to engage in a meaningful debate" and effectively accused me of "dishonesty".

Thank you for correcting the links, "so that anyone interested can judge for themselves". If anyone can be bothered they will see, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that you, Brad, are a bare-faced, fucking liar.

[Smiles]

" ... If anyone can be bothered they will see, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that you, Brad, are a bare-faced, fucking liar ... "
Well, I know for a fact he doesn't have a moustache.

GF, do you pick your feet in Poughkeepsie?

GF, do you pick your feet in Poughkeepsie?

You've lost me completely, Smiles. "Pick my feet" ?? "Poughkeepsie"??

Is this some sort of Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled pepper, or How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood (Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari)??

Tell you what, Smiles - check the two links (it won't take long), tell me who's correct and who's the liar (by PM if you don't want to embarrass your friend Brad in public) and I'll give you the gen on your shoulder by PM!

[Smiles]

" ... Tell you what, Smiles - check the two links (it won't take long), tell me who's correct and who's the liar (by PM if you don't want to embarrass your friend Brad in public) and I'll give you the gen on your shoulder by PM!... "
Sorry, I prefer to spend my valuable time in the Land O' Non Sequiturishness.

[kittyboy]

so that anyone interested can judge for themselves[/i]". If anyone can be bothered they will see, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that you, Brad, are a bare-faced, fucking liar.

Oh..come on now..not off with the glove...taking off the gloves now that is dramatic! Were they the white gloves that should be worn only during the summer? At least in the US a woman only takes off her gloves at the end of the summer social season. Oh..now that makes you unlady like. Next thing you know you will hike up your skirt and take a swing with your knock off handbag..oh....You should go back to your anger management classes a respectable lady should know not to snarl.

If you look at the data the relevant number is the per capita rate. The number per 100,00 or some other measure that allows a comparison accross populations.
Thailand is not in the top 10 based on the relevant statistical measure. From what I can tell it has not been in the top 10 for at least 10 years. Looking at total numbers without adjusting for population is meaningless. Sorry GF but your numbers again just don't add up.

[Beachlover]

Geez.... 4 extensive pages of this.

If this were in a bar it would've come to blows by now wouldn't it? lol.

Thank God one very seldom sees that kind of behaviour in the gay establishments as it seems to be more confined to the hetro hang outs, not that it never happens in a gay place! ......

:cheers:

Maybe i am wrong, but it looks like a late nite ladyboy bar behind MBK.

Thank God one very seldom sees that kind of behaviour in the gay establishments as it seems to be more confined to the hetro hang outs, not that it never happens in a gay place! ......

:cheers:

Maybe i am wrong, but it looks like a late nite ladyboy bar behind MBK.

A lot or indeed most of the 'Ladyboy' bars in Bangkok are really for the so called hetro clientele, hence the ones in Soi Cowboy, Nana Plaza etc. I didn't say it didn't or would never happen in a gay establishment it, luckily isnt often seen to happen.............

:cheers:

.....you, Brad, are a bare-faced, fucking liar[/size].

If you look at the data the relevant number is the per capita rate.[/quote]

As with your point on murders rather than homicides, you may well be right but your point, again, has no relevance to the point I made. The numbers I have consistently referred to and the numbers both Brad and I gave links to (the same numbers, from the same source) show the TOTAL numbers in prison. Nothing more, nothing less. I made this very clear when I first broached the subject when I went so far as to underline the word "total" to avoid any such confusion *, which you and he seem determined to introduce in a rather pathetic effort to find factal fault with anything I post.

Brad's links say the opposite to what he claims they say proving him to be a liar (not that much proof was needed). At least he has had the good sense to "take the 5th".

Your posts prove you to be an idiot, as usual.

My continued interest in this subject, and in particular in responding to you and Brad, are making me question my own rationality, and it is well past time I gave you both the attention you deserve - nil.







* "тАж..Thailand consistently having one of the top 10 total prison populations, despite its relatively small population, with most of the offenders being imprisoned for violent, drug-related or gun-related offences (or a combination of them)"

[Brad the Impala]

So sorry GF not to be able to provide the validation that you require on this occasion.

I do appreciate that your self esteem does get a little low, and that you need to try to point score off us mere mortals who post on this forum, in order to give yourself a little boost. Unfortunately I haven't been able to provide that boost to your self esteem on this occasion, but in a spirit of good will may I offer some advice.

It might be a first step to improving your natural self esteem, if you could accept where you actually live! "Pattaya but not Pattaya" reads so defensive. Places other than Pattaya do have names, I believe.

Otherwise I think that it might be best to avoid looking into mirrors, as you might start an argument that would be bound to end with you being abusive to yourself. Times two, back and forth, could be quite an unpleasant and escalating experience.

If your latest tantrum is going to follow the pattern of the previous ones, you may spend the next few days following me around like Mary's lamb, shrieking hysterically(insofar as that is achievable in print) BRAD THE LIAR, BRAD THE CREEP, BRAD THE etc etc..

Feel free to do so, but it is only fair to advise you that it disturbs me not the least. There are those who think that you may be Hedda reincarnated, you are certainly her equal in your condescending attitude to others. However Hedda at least had the ability to be witty in her patronising, so while you may seek to emulate her bullying presence, you have either lost, or have never had, the capacity for wit.

[kittyboy]

Go Fuckyourself - Below is your post where you clearly describe a per capita number when refering to prison population rankings. Then in your most recent post you claim that you are really referring to total population numbers and only total numbers.....Uh..sorry - but that is just not consistent with your own past postings...

I suspect that you will now offer up some Bullshit story about how what you posted was not really what you meant.....etc. etc..
Come on now go fuckyourself...amuse us with more rationalizations.
But don't forget those anger management techniques before you begin writing you don't want to take off the white gloves again before the end of summer. Not lady like that. It is not so much the snarling that I find disconcerting it is the yellow cannine teeth that are exposed with the snarling... good dental work can be had in thailand.
I digress - the snarling does remind me of the time on the farm when the neighbor's dog snarled at me and jumped through the fence. I hit it between the eyes with a big rock. Dazed the poor little fuck and it became a bit mentally unbalanced afterwards and they had to put the poor little snarling fuck down.
I would have shot the little fuck but I left my handgun in the barn.
------------------------------------------------
While I agree with your sentiments , Brad, I do not agree with your figures. According to the same source, Thailand has only recently dropped from the Top 10 (where it has been "consistently") to 17th spot, with 340 per 100,000 (Singapore is in 12th at 388). A number of other sources, such as the Economist, still have Thailand in 9th place as they include those held in custody but not yet tried and sentenced.
---------------------------------------------------
As with your point on murders rather than homicides, you may well be right but your
point, again, has no relevance to the point I made. The numbers I have consistently referred to and the numbers both Brad and I gave links to (the same numbers, from the same source) show the TOTAL numbers in prison. Nothing more, nothing less. I made this very clear when I first broached the subject when I went so far as to underline the word "total" to avoid any such confusion -

[bao-bao]

Perhaps some of these pissing contests could be done via PM?

Just a thought.

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z56/khunbaobao/1918trainwreck.jpg

[TrongpaiExpat]

Perhaps some of these pissing contests could be done via PM?

Just a thought.

Fuck PM's, how about you guys meeting up in person! I want a date, a time and a place.

[kittyboy]

Perhaps some of these pissing contests could be done via PM?

Just a thought.

Fuck PM's, how about you guys meeting up in person! I want a date, a time and a place.

I would be happy to slap go fuckyourself in the face and challenge him to a duel. None of that sissy white glove girly stuff...How about hatchets at 2 feet. The first one who lands a good blow would easily be able to hack up the other very nicely. I am sure the locals would be vastly amused.

Let me know go fuckyourself.

It is never too late to learn quoting. Even for college professors. Don't forget to invert the brackets.
Do your homework, and I will sing a song for you. On condition that you behave like a civilized citizen.
You Can Do It!

]quote[
Kittyboy is a kitty boy with a juicy CV.
Kittyboy, the new master of quoting!
]/quote[



Kittyboy is a kitty boy with a juicy CV!
Kittyboy, the new master of quoting!


or:

]quote="kittyboy"[
I am a kitty boy with a juicy CV!
I am a kitty boy and the new master of quoting!
]/quote[



I am a kitty boy with a juicy CV.
I am a kitty boy and the new master of quoting!

Whoo whee! What a bitchfest!

Well, I guess GF isn't a big movie buff.
Just for you Mr. Fish.

From "The French Connection".....wait for 0:32 in the clip.....

[youtube:3e6pj23x]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd5wCpR8Cg4[/youtube:3e6pj23x]

[Smiles]

First line in this thread by Kenc (minus the first post which was just a video (can you remember back that far?):
" ... How not to behave in a Thai Bar... My first reaction is the guy was asking for it ... "
Last line in this thread by Kenc (which has had a nice ride [5 pages, 71 replies, 2290 views], and appropriately, ending with another video):
" ... From "The French Connection".....wait for 0:32 in the clip ... "
And, completely spoiling a quite decently-plagiarized non-sequitur.

[kittyboy]

It is never too late to learn quoting. Even for college professors. Don't forget to invert the brackets.
Do your homework, and I will sing a song for you. On condition that you behave like a civilized citizen.
You Can Do It!

]quote[
Kittyboy is a kitty boy with a juicy CV.
Kittyboy, the new master of quoting!
]/quote[



Kittyboy is a kitty boy with a juicy CV!
Kittyboy, the new master of quoting!


or:

]quote="kittyboy"[
I am a kitty boy with a juicy CV!
I am a kitty boy and the new master of quoting!
]/quote[



I am a kitty boy with a juicy CV.
I am a kitty boy and the new master of quoting!


Hey - Quoting? Quotation Marks! I don't need to use no stinking quotation marks!
Actually I am a bit thick so I might have to stick to the old fashioned cut and paste...sorry...I just aint that gifted.

Before my time, I am afraid Kenc, as I was too young to be allowed in to see it when it was released back in 1971!


(and Pissyboy, its entirely consistent and exactly what I meant - initial post on the specified subject, digress to attend to Mad Brad the Liar's post on per capita numbers, including quoting the figures he meant to refer to but didn't, similarly digress to your equally uninformed post, then returned to my original point. Maybe once you finish cleaning the toilets you could find time to get enough instruction in English Comprehension to get you through your GED and you would understand a little more).

[kittyboy]

Before my time, I am afraid Kenc, as I was too young to be allowed in to see it when it was released back in 1971!
(and Pissyboy, its entirely consistent and exactly what I meant - initial post on the specified subject, digress to attend to Mad Brad the Liar's post on per capita numbers, including quoting the figures he meant to refer to but didn't, similarly digress to your equally uninformed post, then returned to my original point. Maybe once you finish cleaning the toilets you could find time to get enough instruction in English Comprehension to get you through your GED and you would understand a little more).

GoFuckyourself - Not sure what you mean by toilet cleaning..that is what hired help is for...or at least that is what mine is for...do you scrub you own? You say you need GED help? Well no wonder you still have to do menial toilet scrubbing work..poor guy without an education. Well I am always willing to help out those less intelectually fortunate. Just send a list of the area where you need help and I would be happy to write up an academic study plan. Good for you going back to school so late in life.

Are you sure you don't want to duel it out. We could sell tickets to benefit Thais for life. The irony of two farang hacking each other up with hatchets for the benefit of sick and dying thai surely would not be lost on them.

I get the first whack though as you being an ex ---what is it OSS? MI6, secret agent type have the advantage of training. If I hit you with a glancing blow you surely will get the better of the match. However, if I get in a good whack you are not go fuckyourself but gone fucked - past tense.

Well I am always willing to help out those less intelectually fortunate. Just send a list of the area where you need help and I would be happy to write up an academic study plan. Good for you going back to school so late in life.


Nothing says "academic study plan" like the inability to spell "intellectually."

[Smiles]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/sawatdeephotos/forum%20photos/spellcheck.jpg

Perhaps some of these pissing contests could be done via PM?

Just a thought.

And a perfectly valid one, bao-bao - this thread has become boring, boring, boring, and I am the first to admit it! It is worth remembering, though, that no-one is forced to read any particular thread, let alone post in it.

{quote="smiling-straitjacket"as a college professor you know the difference between AD REM and AD PERSONAM argumentation."

I doubt he does, however a notable few here prefer argumentum ad hominem although they are actually only capable of argumentum ad ignorantiam. In my own case I am well aware that my manner here may upset a few people, but the real root of the antagonism probably lies more with my views on some of the homophiles (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Homophile) and homophilics (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=homophilic) here, whom I rank in the same category as racists, religious zealots and any other hypocrite and bigot who blames some outside factor for his own problems and inadequacies. So be it.


Just for the record, I am not an ex-OSS, MI6, secret agent type (if I was the former I would need to be an American aged over 80!) nor have I ever been a shopkeeper.

.....and, Smiles: ad voila?!

[TrongpaiExpat]

" choose which you think is correct" Ah... there's the fly in the ointment.

I'm only reading to see if you guys set a meet and match date. Never any good down and outs about among geriatrics. Once, though, this very drunk old French guy in one of the Sunee bars took a swing at me but he was so show I just moved aside and he fell flat on his face. He kept yelling at me telling me he knows what I am up to and he knows who I am. I never saw this this guy before in my life. He then got up off the floor and left only to come charging back but the Thai boys intercepted him before he got to me. Before, in the bar he was passing out 1000B notes like they were candy, must have spent 15,000B. I was surprised the boys threw him out and let me stay, I was not passing out 1000B notes. Maybe he was out of cash.

[kittyboy]

[quote="bao-bao":2yg9fp5j]Perhaps some of these pissing contests could be done via PM?
Just a thought.
And a perfectly valid one, bao-bao - this thread has become boring, boring, boring, and I am the first to admit it! It is worth remembering, though, that no-one is forced to read any particular thread, let alone post in it.
{quote="smiling-straitjacket"as a college professor you know the difference between AD REM and AD PERSONAM argumentation."

I doubt he does, however a notable few here prefer argumentum ad hominem although they are actually only capable of argumentum ad ignorantiam. In my own case I am well aware that my manner here may upset a few people, but the real root of the antagonism probably lies more with my views on some of the homophiles (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Homophile) and homophilics (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=homophilic) here, whom I rank in the same category as racists, religious zealots and any other hypocrite and bigot who blames some outside factor for his own problems and inadequacies. So be it.


Just for the record, I am not an ex-OSS, MI6, secret agent type (if I was the former I would need to be an American aged over 80!) nor have I ever been a shopkeeper.

.....and, Smiles: ad voila?![/quote:2yg9fp5j]

Ah..is that what that red line was all about...I am a total idiot when it comes to spelling.
Very correct I did have to look up the difference between AD REM and AD PERSONAM argumentation. Is knowlege of Latin the only criteria for being an educated man? If so how snotty and elitist. I guess I fail the latin test. I will have to attend the remedial english spelling class I have arranged for GF.
I am still amusing myself with the notion of a whack off with hatchets.
How about cattle prods at 3 feet? A greater distance requiring much more agility to dodge the electric shock. A much longer lasting show as well.

The remedial spelling class does remind me of my old homeroom teacher Ms Mack. A tyrant of a woman..I would raise my hand and ask "Can I go to the bathroom" and she would snap back.."I don't know can you go or may you go?". I am still traumatized by the experience and often just lift my leg at the nearest fire hydrant and piss.