The family farm

Can someone who has a Thai boyfriend set me straight on why the Thais up-country are so tied to the family farm. One boy I know - he keeps asking for money because his family needs it, he says. His dad, his mom, his two sisters and he - that's 5 adults, all "work" the family farm. But it doesn't make them a living. They still need money, or so he says. Here in the States some of the kids would be off working and maybe if the farm wasn't earning someone a living they would sell up. Not in Thailand apparently. I don't get it.

....maybe if the farm wasn't earning someone a living they would sell up.....

To do what?

....maybe if the farm wasn't earning someone a living they would sell up.....To do what?I'll assume you're not being a supercilious prick (a big assumption, I know, Hedda). Obviously the answer is to find some way to earn a living since farming isn't giving them one.

[Patexpat]

... and in the poor NE of Thailand there really aren't that many work options to be had. Hence the mass exodus of young people to the city lights trying to make a buck to send back, but of course the city lights are very dim at the moment.

but of course the city lights are very dim at the moment.

So are many of the posters here, but that doesn't stop the old dears, God love 'em.

[aussie_]

So are many of the posters here, but that doesn't stop the old dears, God love 'em.

You kwazee wabbit !!! :cheers:

[Dani69]

A lot of the money the boy earns is sent back to family its the way it works in Thailand but dont be too generous or the requests will never stop ......good luck.

He is asking for money for two reasons. First of all he is a prostitute and only interested in what he can get out of you but knows that he has more chance of a bigger handout if he plasters the sentiment on with a trowel.

Second, like most lower-class Thais, he is a pathological liar where Farang are concerned and regards you and the rest of the expats/holidaymakers there as the next best thing to an ATM.

Wake up and smell the coffee love - you are being ripped off and taken for a very expensive ride.

Wake up and smell the coffee love - you are being ripped off and taken for a very expensive ride.While that is an interesting set of assumptions about me, I didn't say I was making any contributions at all. The comments about the boy's requests were a "peg" on which to hang the question. Given the apparent level of pain in your answer, you've been touched in the past. My question, which no-one has yet answered, is why the Thais have such an attachment to the land, when it doesn't return them a decent living?

[Bob]

My question, which no-one has yet answered, is why the Thais have such an attachment to the land, when it doesn't return them a decent living?

A rather simple answer in my view - they love the land because that's where they are from in most cases and, in many cases, that's where momma, daddy, grandma, siblings and the pet dog still reside. That's all they had and they made do. They still make do but, in the modern age, the family farm obviously doesn't make enough to buy the latest style jeans or cellphone (and, like almost everybody else in the world, who can blame them for wanting more?). Whether a farm does or doesn't "return them a decent living" isn't the #1 priority for most of them and that comment also tells me you likely never grew up on a farm.

Many farming families (in Thailand, the US, and elsewhere) love the land and the quality family life working together brings them so their litmus test for staying there isn't necessarily economic. And many of those farmers simply can't understand why you would tolerate living in the big city.

which no-one has yet answered, is why the Thais have such an attachment to the land, when it doesn't return them a decent living?

I think that it has been answered even though it seems rhetorical to me. If they thought they could make more doing something else then they would. When you're uneducated and don't have any money then what else are you going to do?

It's the so-called cycle of poverty, passed from generation to generation. Some guys put their boyfriends through school, pay for high school for his siblings, and do what they can to break the cycle. Handing money over to them isn't the answer because it'll end up in Mom's hands and unlikely to be spent on what you were told.

You'll find many threads like this on Thaivisa. This obviously isn't a gay-specific issue.

[Bob]

If they thought they could make more doing something else then they would.

For some of them (especially the young family members who pine for cellphones and the big city), you're right; but, for many of them, you're wrong. Go ask a long-term farmer anywhere why he loves working the land and I'll bet you that you'll almost never hear an economic response (because so few of them make a lot of money farming but they still choose to continue to do it). I'll agree that some of them probably don't think they could do anything else (which, frankly, is usually not true as most long-term farmers are capable of doing a lot of things basically because they had to learn how to build structures, fix engines, weld, etc., because they couldn't afford to pay somebody else to do it) and that probably is one of many factors why they stay on the farm.

that probably is one of many factors why they stay on the farm.

I grew up in rural Wisconsin and spent more than an afternoon moving hay around. You're right, it's tradition and even if they aren't making a lot of money they probably produce enough to eat and land can be passed on to the next generation. If you live in the sticks you're not going to have a 401k to pass on...the land is it.

I've read plenty of stories on Thaivisa about guys "buying land from her parents" but never quite getting title. ;) In a society that doesn't have pension plans, land is a store of value.

[Bob]

I've read plenty of stories on Thaivisa about guys "buying land from her parents" but never quite getting title.

Quite common in Thailand because the parents never had good title in the first place. Many family farms in Thailand have just been "in the family" for generations and the first family most likely was a squatter without any title whatsoever. The best (top of the line) title to land in Thailand is called a "chanot" title (fairly similar to what we in the US and England call "fee simple absolute" title) and almost all the "squatting" families can ultimately get that chanot title provided they have the means to pay for it [it requires some written proof as to how long you've lived there, you have to pay for a government surveyor to come mark the boundaries (often with neighboring land owners being present to make sure everybody is happy), and then you have to kiss a lot of local government asses (and provide a little tea money usually) to get it all approved, registered, and done]. Many Thai farmers don't bother with that process as they don't have the money, don't like to kiss asses, and know that nobody has ever challenged their right to exclusively occupy and use the land they've "always" had.

So what this seems to be be coming to is that rural Thais are like farmers everywhere. They think they have a god-given right to have their way of life subsidized by city slickers because somehow it's more "authentic" or/and they don't have enough money/education to go get a job in commerce or industry. Basically there's a feel-good aspect to living in grinding rural poverty.

... In a society that doesn't have pension plans, land is a store of value.
Bingo!
And you have to remember Thailand is still a Feudal society and wealth is (erroniously) measured in land. And besides...its not taxable like in the West.
Think of it as the Western equivalent of having to "own a house" as being the dream to which all intellegent folk are supposed to aspire.
Personally I'd rather own stocks and bonds which can be bought and sold on a whim. But I can't explain that complicated idea to ladyboyfriend. The family has small, divided plots of land that will never realize the economies of scale that can produce big profits. Still, they do make a 200% profit on the money I give mama once a year to "plant rice"...if the weather is good.

One reason the boys hit up Farangs for farm money is it avoids having to go to the local Chinese money lender who charges outrageous interest...much like Farang credit card companies.

Above all remember...these are people who dont have options.

You're gonna upset Hedda/Gone Fisting using that word feudalism. I think the Wikipedia article sums it up best and therefore I guess I agree Thailand is feudal.

"Outside of a European context, the concept of feudalism is normally used only by analogy (called semi-feudal), most often in discussions of Japan under the shoguns, and sometimes medieval and Gondarine Ethiopia. However, some have taken the feudalism analogy further, seeing it in places as diverse as ancient Egypt, the Parthian empire, the Indian subcontinent, and the antebellum American South. The term feudal has also been appliedтАФoften inappropriately or pejorativelyтАФto non-Western societies where institutions and attitudes similar to those of medieval Europe are perceived to prevail."

[francois]

Can someone who has a Thai boyfriend set me straight on why the Thais up-country are so tied to the family farm. .

I asked my bf this question. He said the farm provides food for the family even if they have no money from other sources. To sell the farm is to sell the lifeboat, you might say.

[aussie_]

My boyfriend worked for six years as a waiter in Bangkok while studying at university. Now he is back with the family on the farm near Korat. The only time he saw his family when he worked in Bangkok was to make the trip home on his day off, a fair trip for just one day although less travelling than some boys need to do to get home.

The only way I can see my boyfriend now is to go and visit the family in his village. I have no problem with that and he is happiest when he can work in the rice fields, sweep the house and be with his family and friends. All four houses next to his are relatives, they all work together and help eachother. I enjoy being there for a few days on every visit and it is obvious that farming is always going to be a part of my boyfriend's life. I have been there in every season and it is a beautiful place to live, they would never move to a town or city unless forced to do so.

You really have to spend some time in the rural areas to see how strong the family bond is to a Thai farm boy and also their relationship with the land and the comunitty.

Most of them actually dont have "farms". They are simply country folk.

They prefer to live where they were born and if lucky enough to get a piece of land they grow stuff on it. They naturally eat what they need and try sell the rest through the middlemen who make most of the profits. Every single Thai cant move to a city and of course their kids cant work so its cheaper for them to stay at the village and go to school there. The ones that do move try to earn enough for their families to increase their land holding and maybe build a better quality house. If they do really well they get to own a buffalo or three.

Thanks to the rainy season they can dig huge pond holes which get filled with fish in flood times and they catch and eat these as and when they can, or they find local creeks and rivers to fish in. Usually its rice in the wet season and chilli/fruits in the dry season that they grow.

If they make any money they usually buy and breed chickens to have a meat and eggs supply. Its a very simple life but they still seem to love it . My Thai friends are at their happiest back home in their villages.

http://www.gaytingtong.com/images/udon3.jpg

http://www.gaytingtong.com/images/udon5.jpg

http://www.gaytingtong.com/images/udon13.jpg

http://www.gaytingtong.com/images/fish1.jpg

http://www.gaytingtong.com/images/fish2.jpg

http://www.gaytingtong.com/images/fish3.jpg

[Smiles]

Nice photos Mr Oogleman. Here are a few of my own, from deep down in southern Surin Province, close to the Cambodian border.
The family farm is there. Each of the nine children (including Suphot) was given a rai of land by their father. Pot is right now in the process of buying up the rais that some of his sisters don't want, or need anymore. If this keeps up he'll be the largest owner of land in the family, except for his father and oldest brother.

Each rice harvest, all the kids (five live all over Thailand, four still live in the village) come back home to help out with th work. No one calls them home, or insists they come ... they just do. The rice harvest, the family home, the fields of cassava or corn, or pumpkins are the same as breathing to them.


This is Suphot in his cassava field. Didn't do so well this year as the weather was very wet and a lot of them went to rot. He's pissed, and has devised a new planting technique to prevent it from happening again.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/sawatdeephotos/Thailand_Sept08-Apr09/DSCF0116_resize.jpg


Pot's older sister giving orders. That goddamn tractor won't start.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/sawatdeephotos/Thailand_Sept08-Apr09/DSCF0124_resize.jpg


The rice harvest.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/sawatdeephotos/Thailand_Sept08-Apr09/DSCF0249_resize.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/sawatdeephotos/Thailand_Sept08-Apr09/DSCF0250_resize.jpg


These three you guys are from the village and make extra money by traveling around the local area and helping out where needed during the harvest


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/sawatdeephotos/Thailand_Sept08-Apr09/DSCF0253_resize.jpg


Suphot now spends his year divided between worlds . . . he says he lives in two worlds now: our 'life' for 8 or 9 months, and the family/farm 'life' for 3 or 4 months plus special harvest times in early December. Many many Thais live like that ~ in two worlds ~ either because they wish to, or have to. Working in Bangkok, or Pattaya, or Hua Hin, or wherever there is construction work, or service work, or tourist work. Most of them work very hard in both worlds ... often for very little pay (200-300 baht a day for heavy construction), and whether you believe it or not, they send all sorts of money back home to the parents.

I suppose Suphot is somewhat luckier than most: while we spend our life together he has a pretty easy-going job as a taxi/tour guide . . . his own business, with his own car, setting his own hours. Not many Thais have that luxury.

But, the thought of him never having a farm 'life' as part of his inner being is frankly, beyond the pale.

Its the same whether its a Thai bf or gf here. Most of the times the family farm is generations old, so the kids down the line all contribute to taking care of their elders. Many times, as the generations carry on, you will see new houses right next door, or in the vicinity of the main family house going up, as the children are given a piece of property on the family land. As such, its their responsibility to help take care of the family.


While many of the country families are near self-sufficient with the rice, and variety of fruit trees and other farmed foods, most families don't take in much money, just enough rice to take care of them for the seasons. A lot of things they can barter for with other people in the village, but most areas it seems, if you have a street with 5 or 6 houses on it, they are all relatives. So bartering with family in the same position as you doesn't bode to well if you need something else.

I think from what I have seen, the family can survive on 25,000baht a year on the farm. Any extra money is just extra stuff like cable tv, and other non-necessities. But you will always see the children taking care of parents and grandparents in this way, so they no longer have to work. Thats the Thai way of life here, after a certain age, the kids take care of the parents for the rest of their lives.

Interesting assumption that tells me more about you than it accurately assesses me. I am not or never have been "touched" at all and am certainly not experiencing any pain as I am far too sensible to let myself get ripped 0ff and in any case I do not and never have been attracted to orientals. If I were it would certainly not be to adolescents as I prefer men of my own age.. So get back on the planet dear and face up to the realities of the place. I know Thailand and the Thai people rather better than most of the people who post here. I have been doing business with the Thais for twenty years. I speak the language. I know the culture. I know the history. The romantic nonsense view that Thais "love the land" may have been true forty years ago but it isn't anymore. Thailand sees itself as a developing industrial nation and with that development comes increasing urbanisation - which results in the integration of ideas totally historically alien to alien the Thais. One of these is the notion of a "gay" scene. The Thais don't even have a word for homosexual or gay - it's a Western idea. And although there are a lot of bars in Bangkok and other mainly Thai areas of other tourist cities which mighyt broadly be thought of as analogous to Western gay bars, I can promise you that you will never be allowed into them. They are Thai-only establishments. They are not populated by rent boys or hookers but mainly by middle-classThai men seeking other Thai men. When Thais want a whore they go to a go-go bar like the ones that Westerners mistakenly think of as being on the "gay scene". For centuries there has been a sttrong "brothel culture" in Thailand but thailand is an extremely class-ridden culture and the people who end up working in Farang-friendly boys are invariably from the poorest and least respected sections of Thai society. They will lie through their teeth to get money - which is fundamentally their entire goal in life. Go to some of the more remote areas of Thailand and you can tell which families are sending their kids out on the game - not because they have more water-buffalos than the rest of the villagers but because they have satellite dishes on the roofs of their dwellings and a couple of cars parked outside. "Thais love the land" my arse. Thais love money. People like the deluded morons on this forum make sure they get it.

Apologies for the slight errors of typing and grammar in the last post. It was sent from my Blackberry while sitting on a train so I didn't give it a very good edit. Either way I think you'll get the point.

[Smiles]

Lowlife pens as many cliches and generalizations (towards his 'view' of Thailand) as he perceives other, more naive, souls of having who think a little more gently of Thais and Thailand. Heard it all before: in fact Lowlife's point of view is hardly new to this Board, and I certainly would concede the odd snippet of reality in his overview, as long as it is not applied wholesale . . . which it is in the post above.

There is a lot of underlying bitterness in Lowlife's post as well, and wherever that came from, it certainly creates a bit of a credibility problem . . . as does his 'oeuvre' of 4 whole posts on this Board ( << member/lollylowlife/posts/ (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/member/lollylowlife/posts/) >> ), all of which mirror the same general nasty aura towards most things Thai.

I don't think anyone above said anything about Thais "loving the land". But in general they tend to love the family who lives there (usually the mother and father & possibly grandparents), which in turn takes them back there on regular visits throughout the year. One only has to get stuck in traffic jams hundreds of miles long on the highways leading out of Bangkok (and all other tourist towns, like HH for instance) on Thai holidays and festivals to witness that.
Are they heading east and north for 'The Land'? No, they head out to join The Family. (They also head back to where they came fairly quickly . . . "5 days is long enough time", says my guy. But he always goes.)

Thais of the great majority underclass do like money (because life is expensive, and they have very little); young Thais do leave home enmasse for The Metropolis (and money does flow homeward from that. See: 'life is expensive'), but the vast majority do not flow willy nilly into gogo bars and massage parlours (reality is far more banal than that ... 100 baht a day cooking, or washing, or waiting for whatever customers turn up. 250 baht a day on a construction job. Jobs which are commonly seven days a week, 10 hours a day).

Been cheated or lied to by a Thai? Wow, what a surprise. Been cheated or lied to (for money, be it ever so small) in your home country?
Ever been astonished ~ even surprised ~ at a Thai's incredible honesty (even when the consequences could have easily been profitable for him)? I have, more than once. If you haven't, you hang out in bad company. Tough.

But Lowlife can be as bitterly cynical as he wishes . . . just as long as folks understand that his point of view is as overdone and common on this Board (albeit by a small minority, which belonging too should make him all warm and squishy) as are my dirty coffee cups gathering forlornly in the kitchen sink.

(By the way, this thread ~ except for Lowlife's cliched contribution ~ has veered very much away from Curious' original post queries . . . which, knowing Curious, I suspect was very much supposed to wind everyone up rather in the same vein as was Lowlife's.
Too bad. Curious will just have to stay, well, curious)

know that nobody has ever challenged their right to exclusively occupy and use the land they've "always" had.

You're taking a more generous perspective than the typical Thaivisa poster, but I do agree with you regarding the facts. In reality these guys are 'leasing' the land whether they know it or not. Even if the families had a clear title they'd never allow it to leave the family, regardless of who is paying the bills.

know that nobody has ever challenged their right to exclusively occupy and use the land they've "always" had.

You're taking a more generous perspective than the typical Thaivisa poster, but I do agree with you regarding the facts. In reality these guys are 'leasing' the land whether they know it or not. Even if the families had a clear title they'd never allow it to leave the family, regardless of who is paying the bills.


Personally I'd rather own stocks and bonds which can be bought and sold on a whim.

I agree. I've actually regretted buying my condo lately. If you know how to operate in markets that have high liquidity then there's no appeal to owning land, property, or being a business owner. If one took it to the logical extreme then being a currency trader is probably the highest form of the art. That being said, I'm quite content with being an equity futures trader...not holding positions for more than a day or two at a time. I gave up on having a fully invested retirement account a few years ago.

I really like your posts, kenc. I'm starting to consider you one of the forum sages.

My Thai friends are at their happiest back home in their villages.


The pics certainly reflect that. Very cute!


Thais love money. People like the deluded morons on this forum make sure they get it.

I haven't met many people on forums that weren't aware of the class structure in Thailand. Do you truly think that nobody on this forum has read a single book on Thailand? You aren't very bright if that's the case.

Your post implies that people shouldn't date those that are 'beneath them' and make an attempt to bring them up. I won't even attempt to hide the fact that I find the implication contemptible because *I* raised myself above my lower middle-class American family through education and hard work. As such I believe that ambitious people should be given a chance and I go far out of my way to help those that seem deserving.

Can someone who has a Thai boyfriend set me straight on why the Thais up-country are so tied to the family farm. One boy I know - he keeps asking for money because his family needs it, he says. His dad, his mom, his two sisters and he - that's 5 adults, all "work" the family farm. But it doesn't make them a living. They still need money, or so he says. Here in the States some of the kids would be off working and maybe if the farm wasn't earning someone a living they would sell up. Not in Thailand apparently. I don't get it.


Rural living in Isaan is poor but not that bad, als long as cash isnтАЩt in any demand.

At the moment there is the time for planing rice etc. Therefore some cash is needed for buying the crop and paying helpers.

Rice is usually for own consumption only. They cannot make any real money with it.

No crop = no harvest = no living.

10 000 TBT usually can generate rice enough to keep a well sized family going for a year.

Another hassle for families are school fees, uniforms and books as soon as the new term starts; any kid costs
between 2 000 and 5 000 per term.

There is virtually no security system. The only save heaven is the family who is sticking together. The generation contract works the direct way only. The younger need to may for the older, everybody up to his abilities.

I've learned long time ago:

1. As soon as my little money is handed over to someone else, it isnтАЩt mine any more. So I forget about it completely. I am not bothered at all what happened with it. Maybe i am ever grateful for a lesser burden (i.e. watching the chash).

2. ItтАЩs not just Thailand only but the govтАЩs or churches eying my money closely. The very good about Thailand is the great smile I usually observe while I am spraying my cash out.

3. If I feel like it, I just pay some but do not expect anything in return. If I was lucky, some reward did come by surprise ..

4. Being greedy has never been paying off. posting.php?mode=quote&f=9&p=180816# (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/posting.php?mode=quote&f=9&p=180816#)

I love Thailand.

Jesus you sad old queens are so easy to wind up. Look - the reality is that you are all too c loseted, too old, too ugly or too scared to get what you are looking for in your own countries so you come to South East Asia as sex tourists (That's what you are - don't make any bones about it) and delude yourself into thinking you have loving relationships with people who you don't even have the grace to call "men" but refer to as "boys". I know in many cases that's quite true and that many of your underage liaisons would land you in prison back home, but try going to the Deep South of the USA and call a young black kid "boy" and then have fun counting the well deserved knife wounds you'll get in return. No wonder these people rip you off and deride you behind your back. I have sat on Thai beaches listening to these "lovers" and "ladyboyfriends" and "bfs" and "special boys" talk about people like you in regional dialects that none of you with your appalling understanding of tonal inflection and twenty word vocabularies have a hope of understanding. They laugh about the size of your dicks, how you smell, how bad your teeth are, how much money they hope to screw out of you and what bullshit sob-stories you have bought in order for them to extract even more money out of you to buy their wives and girlfriends presents. All the time you're sitting their in cloud cuckoo land telling each other how much they love you and how devoted they are. You don't have relationships with these people - you have fantasies in which they collude in order to get their hands on your hard-earned cash. And,please don't mistake my hard realism for bitterness.I have nothing to be bitter about! I am educated, successful, affluent, cultured, attractive confident and secure enough to get all the sex I want with white Europeans my own age so why would I want to pay a teenage prostitute for an inferior version? I actually think it's funny that you are being ripped off. It's a hoot reading the bullshit you post here about your pseudo-romances. Having said that, it would just be nice once in a while for you people to come clean about who you are, what you are and what is going on in your lives. There's nothing wrong with having to pay for sex and companionship - just drop the act girlfriends and fess up to the truth.

[TrongpaiExpat]

Jesus you sad old queens are so easy to wind up.

Well, your making a good effort to on your first day as a new poster. If you want to wind up the queens it might help to put some paragraphs in your next rant, quite hard to read. Also, don't lay it on too thick as some ol' wind'ees might just catch on and not respond.

Actually only one of my degrees is from Oxford, My two MAs are from a German University and from Sheffield respectively and my Doctorate is from London University. Perhaps you would have preferred me to have quoted or referred to some of the German idealists in relation to the relative status of prostitutes and clients. But then you wouldn't have understood the references would you?

Everything I said applies - poor sad deluded queens. Let's not miss the point. By the way - I only post on here about once every couple of months giving a different handle and email each time and then getting bored and leaving you all to rant and rave and get upset. This is my last for the current session. I do hope I've pissed you off. In fact I KNOW I've pissed you off so I am going home content.

I know. I only post on here every few weeks with a different handle and email each time so the mods don't catch on. I fucking LOVE rattling their cages. Anyway I am resigning from the board now until the next hit. Watch this space.

[Bob]

I am educated, successful, affluent, cultured, attractive confident and secure

In my book, your two posts above demonstrated the opposite. But I do congratulate you on the board name you selected as that seems to fit perfectly.

[Smiles]

:blackeye: :blackeye:

A suggestion for your new handle: 'HighlyForgettable'

See ya next week puppy.

[krobbie]

Well golly gee, lollylowlife is so fascinating and intelligent and just plain likeable. I just can't wait for his next foray. It must be a wonderful experience to come slumming here and show us how well read and educated he is. I don't know about you but I'm really impressed.

I bet he is delightful in real life too. Anyone as educated, successful, affluent, cultured, attractive confident and secure as he, would be a pleasure to be around. :pukeright:

[krobbie]

I suppose he has the advantage of having a bigger brain than a KIWI
I guess you mean the Kiwi bird or would that be the fruit?

[Smiles]

" ... give poor old LMTU a break from all the lies made up about him, now he has retarded ... "
Well, that's certainly true, at least. :geek: :flower:

I've been so edified by allof the private messages I've received asking me to keep posting that I may very well do that for a few more days or even weeks. Really have rattled your cages this time around and am being encouraged to continue by others who are enjoying the spectacle.

Any extra money is just extra stuff like cable tv, and other non-necessities.

Cable TV - we don't even get that here (although they keep saying it's coming!). My partner's home town have not even got "cable telephone" yet!

The best (top of the line) title to land in Thailand is called a "chanot" title (fairly similar to what we in the US and England call "fee simple absolute" title) and almost all the "squatting" families can ultimately get that chanot title provided they have the means to pay for it ........Many Thai farmers don't bother with that process as they don't have the money, don't like to kiss asses, and know that nobody has ever challenged their right to exclusively occupy and use the land they've "always" had.

Not quite correct - many Thai villages have never been surveyed at all, and there simply are no chanoots and no formal system of land regstration. In my partner's village, for example, which I know better than any other, nobody has a chanoot and the first upgrading to tor sor sam only took place last month.





know that nobody has ever challenged their right to exclusively occupy and use the land they've "always" had.

You're taking a more generous perspective than the typical Thaivisa poster, but I do agree with you regarding the facts. In reality these guys are 'leasing' the land whether they know it or not. Even if the families had a clear title they'd never allow it to leave the family, regardless of who is paying the bills.

An "informed" view of "the facts", as usual. Who do you imagine "these guys are 'leasing' the land" from? Hopefully you will learn something when you visit the country, but somehow I doubt it.

Actually only one of my degrees is from Oxford, My two MAs are from a German University and from Sheffield respectively and my Doctorate is from London University.

Strange that your degree from Oxford is not a Master's, or were you just being uncharacteristically modest - after all BA's from there are upgraded to MA's automatically after 7 years, which with your doctorate and other degrees must have passed by now. Have you met Pissyboy yet? He has similar qualifications, I believe ......

[kittyboy]

Actually only one of my degrees is from Oxford, My two MAs are from a German University and from Sheffield respectively and my Doctorate is from London University.

Strange that your degree from Oxford is not a Master's, or were you just being uncharacteristically modest - after all BA's from there are upgraded to MA's automatically after 7 years, which with your doctorate and other degrees must have passed by now. Have you met Pissyboy yet? He has similar qualifications, I believe ......

Go Fuckyourself - (are you sure you are related to hedda?)
My doctorate is from a university in the US. I only have one masters
I kind of figured you might have made the post in order to stir up the pot.
If not I figured lollylowlife is a friend of yours. He has the same self-important demeanor.

PS - Stick with posting on guns and ammo - your ignorance of the social sciences is very embarrassing.
As I said I am more than willing to prove my credientials.

Speaking of Oxford, Gone Fishing wrote "BA's from there are upgraded to MA's automatically after 7 years". Leaving aside the fact that you are using the possessive apostrophe incorrectly to denote a plural, actually Oxford BAs and MAs are not automatically upgraded. In fact they have to be applied for and paid for. But no academic in the know takes them seriously - especially since they are awarded within the same subject as one's first degree and hardly anyone goes on to postgrad study in the same subject as a BA or MA. I could have applied of course but what's the point of having a useless honorary degree? My two postgrad degrees are respectively in Renassance Studies and Existential/Phenomenological Philosophy - my first was in Humanities which included German, Cultural Studies, Critical Theory and Early Modern literature. My doctorate is a research Phd in Communication Theory. I'm glad you have a doctorate from a Stateside University though since American BAs are about the equivalent of a decent UK A level.

Just thought I'd clear that up for you love.

Do keep getting rattled all of you. I hate being ignored and it's working fine so far.

[colmx]

My two postgrad degrees are respectively in Renassance Studies and Existential/Phenomenological Philosophy - my first was in Humanities which included German, Cultural Studies, Critical Theory and Early Modern literature. My doctorate is a research Phd in Communication Theory. .

I take it that the bullshit spouted above is code for "I am unemployed"? :cheers: :cheers:

Actually Miss Colmx or whatever you call yourself I have no need of employment in the demeaning and drudge-like sense that you probably experienced it for as long as it takes you to scrape up enough money for your next cut-price airfare to the land of fake smiles. I haven't needed to work for several years as was in advertising during the affluent Thatcher years which left me very well off. I do work occasionally as a communications consultant however - for which i charge a couple of thousand dollars a day when I can be arsed - which is not very often as I prefer not to get out of bed until mid-day. But I'm also quite a successful writer and artist so not exactly short of a few shillings. Even so I wouldn't chuck it away on hookers like you lot seem to do with such alacrity.

And a paddy degree is worth a three dollar bill Fitguy.

Are you really fit? You sound a bit too intelligent and witty for this forum. I'll bet you are several cuts about this dross.

Do keep in touch.

But as for the rest of you - you're getting very predictable and dull. If you want me to keep posting you will have to ramp up the level of repartee and wit. Mundane cliched insults won't cut it I'm afraid.

Now yoou've been warned.

Keep me entertained or I shall have to stop posting.

Keep me entertained or I shall have to stop posting.

promise?

[a447]

as was in advertising during the affluent Thatcher years
Christ almighty! How old are you???

Jesus you sad old queens are so easy to wind up. Look - the reality is that you are all too c loseted, too old
Looks like you are also an "old queen," unless you were working during your years at primary school.


My two postgrad degrees are respectively in Renassance Studies and Existential/Phenomenological Philosophy - my first was in Humanities which included German, Cultural Studies, Critical Theory and Early Modern literature. My doctorate is a research Phd in Communication Theory.

Surely someone of your supposed intellect could spell correctly, and would have better things to do in life than post on a gay Asian website (especially as you say you are "not and never have been attracted to orientals"), getting excited from reading our responses. You seem the revel in the fact that we are all
getting rattled . Not really. Sorry to disappoint you.
Oh, and just love that
Existential/Phenomenological Philosophy course. Must have been LOTS of students studying that one! hehe

Your posts also prove conclusively that you obviously failed
Communication Theory

Du luegst.

[lo-so]

Likewise a pass degree from Oxford can not be "upgraded" to an M.A.

Oh yes - I missed the "i" out of "renaissance". Not like me to forget about an "I" as I am usually so self obsessed. Actually I am in my forties (much of my study was part-time during periods when i was working and earning as a freelance creative director so I had lots of time and flexibility) so I don't qualify as an old queen yet - although one looks forward to the day when one can revel in the appellation. Thank you for demonstrating your profound understanding of the German language a447 but for future reference please learn the difference between "du" and "sie" and avoid using the familiar in any correspondence addressed to me. "Sie l├╝gen" would have been quite good enough for you dear - do remember your place when addressing your superiors. On the subject of phenomenology you could do with a short course in sentential logic in order to correct the misapprehension that anything in my posts "proves conclusively" that I have failed. I can recommend a couple of good books which might improve your reasoning and comprehension skills but since they have words of more than two syllables in them you probably wouldn't be interested. And just for your records love I got a 2.1 in my first degree, a pass in my first MA, a distinction in my second MA and one either gets a doctorate or doesn't so that should speak for itself. If you understood the slightest thing about postgraduate study you would also realise that the whole point of an MA is to study something no-one else is looking at. It's called "Originality" and it's rather expected of one. So you will see that I don't lie at all - although I'm sure you derive some absurd and misplaced gratification from allowing yourself to believe I do. Probably in just the same way that you allow yourself to believe that there is any genuine affection in your tawdry commercial relationship with whatever duplicitous little hooker you are currently involved with. Still if self-delusion keeps you off suicide watch who am I to drag you back into reality. Nonetheless you might find it worthwhile to notice a pattern.

Speaking of originality or the lack of it I regret to say I am finding all your responses tedious, unchallenging and rather unworthy of my polished wit, shining insight and acerbic repartee. You were warned about this but paid no attention so you have only yourselves to blame for the fact that I will not be posting for a while. When I do I will return with a completly different handle so don't bother watching out for me as I am now going to a better place. And any replies or privates to Lolly will sadly remain unread.

Until she strikes again - rising phoenix-like to piss you all off again with a new collection of unpleasant but necessary home truths.

Until then ladies, don't orget to keep your hands on your holiday money next time your favourite prossie asks you to buy a new water buffalo for his aging mother.

Chances are every satang will go on р╕вр╕▓р╕Ър╣Йр╕▓

р╕кр╕зр╕▒р╕кр╕Фр╕╡ from the fabulous Madame Lolly

Gone Fisting has Gone Quiet..............................

What, constructively, remains to be said?

Pissyboy, as always, says that he is "more than willing to prove (his) credientials" yet he never actually gets round to doing so.

Lollylowlife is showing his lack of knowledge of the correct use of English (BA's and MA's is technically correct, though often overlooked as unnecessary, as the ' refers to the missing word "degrees") and his lack of comprehension skills (I have never claimed to have any American qualifications, far less a Doctorate, nor do I have any apart from a Fellowship). While demeaning the Oxford / Cambridge upgrading as "a useless honorary degree" he is happy to list his equally useless degrees - hardly consistent. He also refers to "dollars" rather more than would be normal for most native Brits, raising the inevitable question mark over both his ancestry and his credibility.

FitGuyNYC and Lollylowlife are both showing their ignorance of "paddy degree"s, which are usually based on the UK system/syllabii (the University of Dublin is often acknowledged as equivalent to Oxford or Cambridge) and occasionally on the European one (and thus direct equivalents of those Lll claims to have). Maybe it is not just a coincidence that they joined within a day of each other.

Plus ├зa change, plus c'est la m├кme chose.

Sorry, time to ignore (both of) you.



Likewise a pass degree from Oxford can not be "upgraded" to an M.A.

Assuming that by "pass degree" you mean a BA, degrees at Oxford, Cambridge and Dublin can (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_of_Arts_(Oxbridge_and_Dublin)) and usually are as a matter of routine. The equivalent of a "normal" MA there is, rather confusingly, called a MPhil.

.....wealth is (erroniously) measured in land. And besides...its not taxable like in the West.

Not just yet, but taxing land is one of Tricky's intended policies.


I really like your posts, kenc. I'm starting to consider you one of the forum sages.

Careful, kenc - beware of fawning gun nuts: look what happened to John Lennon.

[kjun12]

My question, which no-one has yet answered, is why the Thais have such an attachment to the land, when it doesn't return them a decent living?

A rather simple answer in my view - they love the land because that's where they are from in most cases and, in many cases, that's where momma, daddy, grandma, siblings and the pet dog still reside. That's all they had and they made do. They still make do but, in the modern age, the family farm obviously doesn't make enough to buy the latest style jeans or cellphone (and, like almost everybody else in the world, who can blame them for wanting more?). Whether a farm does or doesn't "return them a decent living" isn't the #1 priority for most of them and that comment also tells me you likely never grew up on a farm.

Many farming families (in Thailand, the US, and elsewhere) love the land and the quality family life working together brings them so their litmus test for staying there isn't necessarily economic. And many of those farmers simply can't understand why you would tolerate living in the big city.

This sounds like the truth to me if I have ever heard it.

"Many farming families (in Thailand, the US, and elsewhere) love the land and the quality family life working together brings them so their litmus test for staying there isn't necessarily economic. And many of those farmers simply can't understand why you would tolerate living in the big city."

As I say, many people believe there's something more "authentic" about living outside cities. If that's their bag, fine. What I object to is the belief that somehow their virtue in making such a choice should be subsidized by city slickers.

To me whats a bit sad, is that the OP was nice enough to share his views and experiences with everyone else on the board. You have 1 or 2 people that veer his post so off-topic its disgusting. I am not going to get dragged into a pissing match with someone that just wants to fight on someone else's dime.

Most of us had our own experiences, and opinions put up regarding the initial Post. Seriously, that makes people not even want to bother sharing their experiences because people are going to do nothing but attack those with good intentions.

I appreciated the post and the pics put up, many pics could pass for many that I have of my inlaws out in the country. Don't let someone that has nothing better to do than irritate people get you down or keep you from posting my friend.

[Smiles]

" ... To me whats a bit sad,... You have 1 or 2 people that veer his post so off-topic its disgusting ...
... that makes people not even want to bother sharing their experiences ... "
Quite correct Mr Dream. Lolly & Fitguy are message board trolls and nothing but. Lowlife has even given us almost a perfect definition of troll's profession in a post of his earlier on in this hijacked thread:
" ... By the way - I only post on here about once every couple of months giving a different handle and email each time and then getting bored and leaving you all to rant and rave and get upset. This is my last for the current session. I do hope I've pissed you off. In fact I KNOW I've pissed you off so I am going home content ... "
So expect nothing less from these creeps. They have zero to give to the Board (and any others they infect), and deserve nothing besides getting deep sixed.
Along those lines, if anyone here has not read the Posting Guidelines << posting-rules-and-guidelines-t6259.html (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/posting-rules-and-guidelines-t6259.html) >> lately they might wish to refresh their memories and take a look at #5. Perhaps the Mod and Admin here should take a look themselves ... and enforce their own published guidelines.

MrDreamTransport. I still can read a normal thread. just click their names and make them go away.

This post was made by FitGuyNYC who is currently on your ignore list. Display this post.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This post was made by lollylowlife who is currently on your ignore list. Display this post.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This post was made by FitGuyNYC who is currently on your ignore list. Display this post.

PS - Stick with posting on guns and ammo - your ignorance of the social sciences is very embarrassing.

There's no need to be so specific.

[Smiles]

Yes Mr Oogle, already done that ... (had to 'un-do" for a few minutes to use the quote).

Just in case: to rid yourself of the creep sisters:

GO TO: << User Control Panel >>> Friends & Foes >>> Manage Foes >>> Type in: Lollylowlife & FitGuyNYC >>> Submit >> Never have to bother with them again ... except in a quote and except if you read the Board without logging in. Nothing's perfect. :blackeye:

yay! looks like 2 trolls gone! :cheers:

What and interesting bag of responses to this topic.
I guess some people can't see beyond the "bar-boy slut" and think Thailand ends there.

Isn't it intresting that in America the "Family Farmer" is considerd the bulwark of American and democratic values, even though they now are only 3% of the population. And even in England the "Yeoman Farmer" is considerd the bedrock of their history (and I'm sure some Brits will correct me on my miss-assumption but that's what we were tought about you in school).
And why should we be surprised that rural Thais are thought of as more "genune" than the new urban Thailand?
The smiles upcountry are certainly more genuine.



.....wealth is (erroniously) measured in land. And besides...its not taxable like in the West.

Not just yet, but taxing land is one of Tricky's intended policies.


I really like your posts, kenc. I'm starting to consider you one of the forum sages.

Careful, kenc - beware of fawning gun nuts: look what happened to John Lennon.

Well Mr. Fishing, I'm a fan of land tax only because it will help to break up the vast feudal landholdings of the rich, Royal and well connected. Alas it may also push the poor out of a non-productive enterprise as the OP first posited. Actually a difficult question. Should I reconsider?

And to Mlomker. No- I'm not a sage. Look at this topic and you can see many who's opinions are worth reading and some who are ...nutz.
But I do agree with you one one thing..."Portable Property". (I can't remember, there's some Dickens character who kept saying that...) A lot of people don't realize that Real Estate is one of the most difficult investments to get into and out of. Not very liquid at all.

Well Mr. Fishing, I'm a fan of land tax only because it will help to break up the vast feudal landholdings of the rich, Royal and well connected.

Rhodesia tried land reform & they went from producing a surplus of food to people starving. Taking land away from experienced farmers can cause problems.

[krobbie]

Rhodesia tried land reform & they went from producing a surplus of food to people starving. Taking land away from experienced farmers can cause problems.

Rhodesia ... where have you been hiding. It has be Zimbabwe since 79. Mr Mugabe has done an astounding job, don't you think?

Rhodesia ... where have you been hiding. It has be Zimbabwe since 79.

Maybe he's been hiding in South Vietnam. Or Miramar, even?

Maybe he's been hiding in South Vietnam. Or Miramar, even?

It's MYANMAR!

Yeah, miramar is in florida. I caught that earlier too Pon, but didn't think much to correct it lol.